Talk:Joe Biden

Biden as President

Biden is no longer the incumbent, it says that on the sidebar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.37.182 (talk) 00:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

According to the US constitution, Biden was officially the president for 5 minutes. Biden was sworn in before 12, and at 12:05 Obama was president. Someone should add that in. Andorhal (talk) 19:55, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

NO. According to the constitution, Barack Obama became president at noon, oath or no oath. The 20th Ammendment states:

"Section 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin."

So, terms of successors (in this case, Obama) begin at noon; there is no mention of the oath to make this official and no need for the oath for the presidential term to begin. 96.231.118.155 (talk) 00:08, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

He was not president! Bush and Cheney were still President and Vice President respectively when he was sworn in!

Irviding11 (talk) 06:04, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Bush & Cheney ceased to be President & Vice President, at Noon EST of January 20, 2009. GoodDay (talk) 20:17, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, therefore he was not acting president of the united states. The President was still George W Bush until 12 noon. Irviding11 (talk) 22:03, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Need a new photo

We need a new photo of Biden instead of that senate photo, there is one on change.gov but I am unable to upload it to Bidens page due to protections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Irviding11 (talk • contribs) 00:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

We'll wait until the official photo of him as Vice President is made available; that is preferable to anything done during the transition. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:43, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

There's a photo up today at http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/vice_president_biden/, but it's the same small-sized image that was previously uploaded to File:Thumbnail-sized photo of Joe Biden.jpg. I presume it's too small for the infobox top image (we only use it now in the template at the bottom), so we'll have to keep on waiting. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:33, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

But someone put it in anyway. Looks kinda like I expected. Wasted Time R (talk) 04:19, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I put it in. Why was it removed? It is his official vice presidential photograph. What we have now is his senate photograph. The main photo should be their official photo for the office they are holding.

Irviding11 (talk) 06:04, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it was the official transition photo ... but its resolution is too low. Hopefully an official vice presidential photo, with good resolution, is still in the offing. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:02, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, i guess it is pretty crap resolution. Irviding11 (talk) 22:03, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Early Life and Education

The paragraph beginning with During Vietnam Biden receivied five draft deferment needs to be replaced with the following: Biden was subject to the draft for most of the Vietnam draft era but continued to avoid service by applying for five separate deferments. When his numerous deferments expired, Biden received a draft notice but by that time he was already a lawyer so knew how to "manipulate the system.” He says he was disqualified for childhood asthma although in his best-selling memoir, "Promises to Keep" Biden recounted his active childhood, working as a lifeguard and excelling at high school football, but he never mentioned asthma. All the sources in print concerning Biden’s draft history are secondary and lead back to the same single source – a 1987 Washington Post candidate profile in which Biden himself was the source. There has never been any independent verification of how he avoided service and he has resisted releasing any of his draft records. Hence, his statement he was disqualified for asthma is unverified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The-Expose-inator (talk • contribs) 19:09, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Previously discussed at Talk:Joe Biden/Archive 4#Draft Avoidance. You haven't presented any new arguments or sources here. Wasted Time R (talk) 22:38, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

On the contrary, the citation for his having asthma (16) is non-existent and links to nowhere while you can Google the Asthma story all over the Internet and every source is secondary citing his own explanation to the Washington Post back in 1987. Given Biden’s history of prevarication, should this not be classified as “unverified” until he produces something more substantive than his “recollection.”

I would also point out that the Vice President entry for Dick Cheney has a separate section on his draft avoidance so it appears the VP entry template has been established or was that template only for Republicans? —Preceding unsigned comment added by The-Expose-inator (talk • contribs) 16:48, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

First, you haven't looked at Dick Cheney lately; since last month, the draft is no longer a separate section, but rather one paragraph in the "Early life and education" section, just like it's handled here. Second, you previously claimed that Biden's asthma is never mentioned in his memoir Promises to Keep. That's not correct, it's mentioned on page 156, when he's about to talk about his 1988 aneurysm: "I'd never in my life had any real physical troubles beyond childhood asthma and a separated shoulder." You should be able to see for yourself with a Google Books search. Third, I'll try to find this 1987 WaPo article and use it as the cite here, if it's the best statement on it. Wasted Time R (talk) 05:09, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

One fact I can personnally attest to unequivocally is that if he had not made a major issue of it, the childhood asthma would never have kept him out of the service. Having been Drafted and Inducted into the Army in June 1967 in Wilkes-Barre, the Armed Forces Entrance and Examination Station for Northeast Pennsylvania including his “hometown” of Scranton, I have a little first hand knowledge on how physicals were conducted. I had three disqualifying features detected during my Draft Physical including a “loose knee” from a wrestling injury that should have been surgically corrected. Instead of being disqualified, the doctor stamped my Physical “Waiver” but did warn me to “be careful with the knee in Vietnam so it didn’t dislocate again!” I was inducted later that afternoon and ended up serving an extended tour in Vietnam. Regardless, it never crossed my mind to do anything to avoid being drafted as I knew that when one man evaded, someone else, often less educated or advantaged and always less eligible, served in his place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The-Expose-inator (talk • contribs) 22:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

First, his draft board would have been somewhere in Delaware, not Scranton (which he moved away from at age 10). Second, draft boards may have been inconsistent in how they regarded various ailments. Third, your personal experiences are WP:OR and are given no credence here. That last rule is tough and frustrates many well-intentioned people, who indeed sometimes know better than the WP:RS we have to go by, but it's a hard-and-fast rule nonetheless. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:57, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Tuesday edit

See. Talk:Barack_Obama#Tuesday_editHereford 22:25, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

president biden

should we put that biden was president for 5 minutes because when bush's term expired only he had been sworn in and obama had not been sworn in yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.166.86.114 (talk) 17:47, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

No. According to the constitution, Obama became president at noon. It doesn't matter that he didn't take the oath "in time", as there have been other inaugurations where this has happened. Vice Presidents are "acting Presidents" frequently while the President is away or for whatever other reason, and Biden was doing exactly that. Captain Alaric (talk) 17:56, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

dude i was just joking. the page would look very taky if we put that on there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.166.86.114 (talk) 18:11, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. However, please remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and all edits should strive to be entirely factual. Captain Alaric (talk) 19:25, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

msnbc was saying that biden was president for 5 minutes because of the 20th amendment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.166.86.114 (talk) 20:07, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I assume that you're referring to Section 3 of the 20th Amendment, stating: "...If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified..."

Surely this means he served as "acting President", something which the Vice President does on a regular basis when the President is off duty, etc. Therefore, Biden was no more of a President in those 5 minutes than Dick Cheney was during any time George W. Bush was on holiday. Captain Alaric (talk) 23:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

According to section 1 of the 20th ammendment, Obama became president at noon, oath or no oath. Biden was *not* acting president. Section 3 doesn't apply because Obama was chosen and had qualified. Section 1 states, "Section 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.231.118.155 (talk) 00:12, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Google's current excerpt?

"Negative impressions of drinking alcohol in the Biden and Finnegan families and in the neighborhood led to Joe Biden becoming a teetotaler.[18][6] Biden suffered from stuttering through much of his childhood and into his twenties;[19] he overcame it via long hours spent reciting poetry in front of a mirror.[11]" Starks (talk) 21:25, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Forgive me if I'm being ignorant, but can we change this? If so, I recommend the first line of the article. "Joseph Robinette "Joe" Biden, Jr. (pronounced /'dʒoʊsəf rɒbɪ'nɛt 'baɪdən/; born November 20, 1942) is the forty-seventh and current Vice President of the United States." Captain Alaric (talk) 23:20, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

As far as I know, we have no control over the Google excerpt. And yes, I've often seen very unrepresentative or unimportant fragments of articles used as their excerpt. You just have to hope that readers click through and read our articles from the top. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:00, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

This is correct, I looked into it at the help desk. Since the Vice President is something of a hot topic around now, there's a lot of movement on this article and over at Google. It should go back to normal soon enough.The Sartorialist (talk) 01:04, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

46th or 47th?

Ok, is he the 46th or 47th Vice-President of the United States? As seen here, whitehouse.gov says he is the 46th, but I guess that could just be a typo. Does anyone know? Illinois2011 (talk) 00:50, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

See them counted off to 47 in List of Vice Presidents of the United States. Don't know why the discrepancy. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:01, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Family

His maternal grandmother Robinette descended from French Huguenots who emigrated to England and Pennsylvania later. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.203.113.163 (talk) 06:36, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Source?

And by the way, the wargs.com genealogical site seems to have disappeared. It was used in this article and in many others, although the FAC folks considered it unreliable. When will the New England Historic Genealogical Society do a write-up on Biden? The FAC people do consider them reliable, so that's what we need here. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:50, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I think we also need some mention ...

I think we also need some mention of his vanity -- the hair plugs and the botox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.125.92 (talk) 21:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

No. Discussed before. See Talk:Joe Biden/Archive 3#Hair Plugs. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:30, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Vice-Presidential Portrait

Shouldn't Biden's official vice-presidential portrait be used as the main image? Jzcrandall (talk) 22:43, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Barack Obama

Based on a suggestion on Talk:Barack Obama, a new baby Wikiproject has been formed:

Wikipedia:WikiProject Barack Obama

Please check it out, watchlist it, join and sign up. Let's get some GAs and FAs going out of this! :) rootology (C)(T) 20:11, 23 January 2009 (UTC)