Talk:Dada

Poème Simultané

I'd like to see something about this form of artistic presentation added to the "Poetry, music, and sound" section. If I'm not mistaken, the concept itself has Dada origins, and even if it was not an original idea at the time, it was still a main attraction at Dada events (according to Hans Richter). I'd add information myself, but I don't feel as if I know enough about the subject to do so. 75.69.110.227 02:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Nihilism

Can we please get a citation for:

"Therefore, it is a movement based in Nihilism, in the sense that it embraces a systematic devaluation of Transcendental values and a reconstruction based in the will to power as the fundamental essence of humanity."

That is a very powerful statement and I think it's wholy inapropriate to have it on the page without some sort of reference to it. The subject of Dada is a little more complex than simply nihilism, it could be argued that the europe they opposed was nihilistic rather than them. Because of the complexity of this I'm removing the quote for the time being. Assuming it to be original research. If someone can find a citation then it can be re-added.

Wonder Showzen

I deleted the Wonder Showzen link. I love that show, but including every bit of pop culture influenced by Dada would be an excercise in futility. And if you were to relate TV shows to Dada one of the prime examples would be the Monty Python's Flying Circus.

Opening section

This article has gigantic mistakes, and I'll try to fix some in the future. But, the most important one is the origin of the word Dada. I think it should mention Hans Arp ironic letter to Tristan Tzara, claiming to admit Tzara had invented it as well as the much more credible reference written by Huelsenbeck, explaining how he and Hugo Ball found the word in a german-french dictionary, meaning "hobby-horse" in French. If there are no comments. I'll fix it myself.

Dada was not nihilistic or cynical or random - it was a concerted, political, anti-war movement. I have changed the intro as such - sources and verification are evident throughout the article. Please comment here before reverting. 62.25.106.209 12:22, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I really feel that's not correct. Cynical and nihlistic are subjective, but large parts of dada were random by design. Even the very name dada was random, derived from a randomly choosen dictionary entry. Dada was anti-war, but to describe it primarily as an anti-war movement is misleading and unhelpful. Please be specific in your evidence that dada was a concerted anti-war movement. Detruncate 22:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

1. The origin of the word Dada are not confirmed. You will find many contradictory sources.

2. randomness, nihilism and cynicism were all employed as artistic devices in production of anti-war propoganda.

3. Dada began in the anti-war movement and developed past the end of WW1 - so it outlasted its purpose - but every single Dada artist and manifesto continued that anti-war line into a critique on "European civilisation" more generally. It is the describing of Dada as primarily artistic that is misleading and unhelpful. Maybe we should synthesise a new begining?

195.92.40.49 09:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think dada should be described as primarily artistic, but primarily cultural on the whole. Dada began in the anti-war movement, but it was not, in it's formation, exclusively anti-war. To the Dadaists, the first world war was the best example of "what was wrong", but the war itself was not the only target. It was anti-war in that it critiqued the entire culture and social organization that could allow something like the first world war to happen. It was anti-war, anti-art, anti-tradition, anti-prentension and so on, a critique of all the toxic cultural and organizational trends. The reason I don't want it to say anti-war at the top of the article is I feel it too narrowly defines the dadaist movement. It might be useful to have a more in-depth sentence on the orgins of the movement in the first paragraph of the article to more fully explain the relationship of dada and the first world war. --Detruncate 18:09, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that 'cultural' would be a more accurate term than 'artistic', but DADA was most certainly a focussed anti-war and pro-life movement - every single manifesto and artist was united by that position and that - anti-war politics is integral to the anti-art praxis. 195.92.40.49 09:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Detruncate - I think you are partially correct. The initial Swiss and subsequent French instantiations of dada were primarily artistic (like user 195.92.40.49, I think cultural is a better term here), though a) it is difficult for any art to be apolitical, b) the reason they were thrown together at all was due to the war and c) the war provided a huge impetus to their activities in terms of being something hugely obvious to be angry about and protest against. However the later offshoot of dada in Germany _was_ explicitly and self-consciously political in a way the earlier 'dadas' were not. Your suggestion of a more in-depth explanation of the origins of the movement re WWI is a good one - I think that would be valuable. --escha 22:05, 4 February 2007 (GMT)

Miscellaneous

Why does the bibliography only include two sources? I do not think Huelsenbeck's account should be the only account directly from a "dadaist"; what about Hans Richter's book Dada Art & Anti Art? I have this book and would be quite willing to submit my changes/additions to the Overview section of this page for consideration. ---- DYLAN GRAYSON DYLAN GRAYJSON FDJAKLSCEHBQWUO DYLAN GRAYSON WITHINWITHOUT@GMAIL.COM

I don't think that the "Dada Manifesto 2001" should be included in the text. It is obscure and insignificant. It only gets two results on google, both from the actual manifesto website. I've moved it to talk:

Dale J. Sprague wrote the Dada Manifesto 2001, endorsed by 10 people (as of 2003), at Phoenix Web Site.

--snoyes 16:39, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

No problem with that. Actually the reason I included it was 1) to show that Dadaism is still alive among some people and 2) the main reason, to have something to fill the "Modern Developments" section, since I think in order to have a section it is a good idea to write at least two paragraphs. :) if u have something to add under the Modern Developments section, feel free to do so. Optim 17:43, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

sethmahoney, re:"Comments belong in the talk page"-- I thought this was a collaborative encyclopedia where people could contribute their knowledge. I was contributing knowledge. Isn't it a bit ridiculous to say that adherents of dada were trying to achieve a personal understanding of the true nature of the world around them?

This is a collaborative encyclopedia, and we welcome your contributions. However, since it is an encyclopedia, there are style guidelines. See Wikipedia: Manual of style if you have questions. If the comment I left when I reverted your edit offended you, try to understand - Wikipedia gets lots of vandalism, and sometimes it can be difficult to tell who is trying to do what.

As far as your question goes, I'm with you. Its a bit ridiculous to say that the adherents of dada (insofar as the word adherents applies to the people who produced dada art) were uniformly trying to do anything, much less trying to achieve a personal understanding of the true nature of the world around them. -Seth Mahoney 02:14, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

OK--I wasn't offended per se. I was just trying to imagine what a dada version of the wikipedia definition of dadaism might actually be. Probably, it would have involved deleting the whole thing.

Heh, or maybe a blank page, or the word "dada" in big, bold letters, or some common household item made malicious looking, or a big web of string and glass? -Seth Mahoney 02:00, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

C'mon now. SURELY you can come up with a better example of modern Dada influence than Wonder Showzen! --128.205.124.89 02:38, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Would anyone consider using the "da da da" song from 1982 as a modern example of dadaism? The title is not the only hint, the structure and words of the song and especially the video seem to me to be dadaism at least as I understand it. Please check the video here: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=344705699499781309 Maybe watching this can illutrate for some people what dadaism is! Sorry, I do not know how to identify myself here.24.69.35.203 07:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Move?

Seldom, in 35 years of reading about Dada, have I seen it called "Dadaism", and to me it feels awkward to write "Dadaism". Most often it's called "Dada". A check of "What links here" shows more links (about 150) to "Dada" than "Dadaism" (under 100).

How's about we move "Dadaism" to "Dada" and make "Dadaism" the redirect page? --sparkit (talk) 01:04, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

More...

West, Shearer (1996). The Bullfinch Guide to Art. U.K.: Bloomsbury Publishing Plc. ISBN 0-8212-2137-X., lists "Dada", not "Dadaism."

A search at bartleby.com for "Dadaism", returns "Dada."

A search at dictionary.cambridge.org for "Dadaism," returns "not found."

A search at www.metmuseum.org for "Dadaism," returns four listings. "Dada" returns 17.

--sparkit (talk) 05:20, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

I've requested the move. move request. --sparkit (talk) 04:52, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

• Support —Michael Z. 2005-06-17 04:49 Z
• Support move to Dada. Alexander 007 06:29, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. The pages were swapped to retain the history (they were merged). violet/riga (t) 18:31, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you! --sparkit (talk) 05:56, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

removal of the Bonzo Dog Band from the "Related links" section

Hello, I noticed you removed the Bonzo Dog Band from Dada on the grounds that the article is about the art movement that finished in the 20s/30s. However, it has a section called legacy and you haven't removed Tom Stoppard. Can you explain your reasoning in more detail? Thanks. --bodnotbod 05:05, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

So we meet at last? :-)

I removed it from the "Related links" section as IMO the Bonzo Dog Band has only secondary and faint relations with Dada, at least in contrast with that section's other links: 1918 Dada Manifesto, Expressionism, Futurism, Modernism, Surrealism etc.

Arguably, mentioning the band in the legacy section e.g. like this:

The British musical group originally named Bonzo_Dog_Doo-Dah_Band (Doo-Dah being an allusion to Dada) called one song Ready Mades and another The Bride Stripped Bare by Batchelors.

could be considered acceptable, though only from a mere formal point of view: the band was influenced by Dada - but then, where would that list end? I suppose hundreds, if not thousands of artist of any kind have been subject to Dada influence or be sympathetic to it. Wikipedia articles should not be linklists. There are some exceptions to the rule for technical articles, but IMO this doesn't apply here.

So the decision should be about relevancy: is the Bonzo Dog Band relevant enough to the subject to be included? I'm not too happy with the legacy section, IMO it should center on trends and movements inspired by Dada, possibly including artists that made a lasting imprint on art history. I don't think the Bonzo Dog Band falls into that category. Anyway, you should discuss this here, I might be wrong. ...and fear not: I'm not a Bonzo Dog Band hater. --Tickle me 06:23, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

• Hello. First a correction: The Bonzo Dog Dada Band was the original name, which then became Doo-Dah as they became tired of describing what Dada was in interviews, and then finally boiled down to just The Bonzo Dog Band.

I think I would find it easier to agree with you if I was convinced that the article could indeed become overrun with those who claim to have been influenced by dada if a tight rein wasn't kept on things: but are there really that many names that could be put? And even if there are, are The Bonzos not notable by being a musical example (bearing in mind that beyond the mere randomly generated band-name, the dada references in their titles, they also used arty props and masks on-stage - though I confess I'm ill-equipped to say how true to dada these on-stage devices were) or are there many musical examples that could be added? Do you feel any enthusiasm for having a go at the legacy section? Perhaps then I could better state a case for The Bonzos inclusion. Otherwise I don't have much to go on, since I'm very much more into The Bonzos than I'm into Dada.

Anyway, I'd come in all wound up for a fight, but you've been quite charming, so I find myself annoyingly disarmed. Anyone else care to comment? --bodnotbod 11:11, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd come in all wound up for a fight: no offense meant, feel free to include them, if include you must:-) Anyway, as both the Bonzos and Dada are long bygone, we might well wait for comments as you suggested. btw, though certainly none of my business: what about mopping up Bonzo_Dog_Doo-Dah_Band in the meantime? Do you feel any enthusiasm for having a go at the legacy section?: Err, I will eventually if nobody else does... --Tickle me 12:33, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

• It was me that added the cleanup notice ;o) I encouraged people on the Bonzos Yahoo Group to contribute, but apparently it fell on deaf ears. I suppose there is a fair bit I could do to it. I seem to be overwhlemed with stuff I want to work on at the moment. Tickle me I'd be interested to hear your views on what I've done - in terms of presentation - on Rachel Whiteread. I've tried to initiate a discussion about getting external imagery into accessible positions on the page over at Portal_talk:Art#Formatting_visual_arts_articles_with_details_on_individual_works, it's something I would like to hammer out with community support and then my intention is to use whatever format everyone enjoys on a number of artist's articles. If you would look at Whiteread and then add your view at that portal page I'd be grateful (even if it's negative!) --bodnotbod 19:15, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Christian Death: removal

@84.66.163.10: I removed this till it's been discussed:
[[Christian Death]], a [[Gothic rock]]/[[Deathrock]] band whose lyrics were heavily inspired by Dada.

From the articles 136 lines (use copy&paste + a line numbered editor) only one:
now Rozz showed an interest in Surrealism and the Dada movement and this reflected in the music...
mentions Dada. Please see above. --tickle me 21:29, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi. I'm the guy who added Christian Death. I would like to point out that the Rozz Williams page has been criticised for not detailing his interest in DaDa. Perhaps the same could be said of the Christian Death page. Alternately, perhaps we should add a link from the nihilism page to the Rozz Williams page? Anyway, allow me to quote some Christian Death lyrics:

The legless man had directed him to a window

windows like blind eyes probed the mud

the minutes that were left

ran across his throat stuffed with cotton

and his mouth could hear distant splashes

Now don't tell me that doesn't sound Dada influenced. User:D-Raven

Hi, arguably it does, but IMO that's not the point: I bolded the issues in the posts above that should apply here too. perhaps we should add a link from the nihilism page to the Rozz Williams page?: I won't start a fight but advice against it for the same reasons.

In the end it boils down to this: Impetuous youth should have some mercy on us old farts... one fine(?) day Dada, Nihilism and whatever will be hapless objects of your weird & whimsical vagaries, while we push up the daisies for you to have a place to merrily dispose of carousal's residue. --tickle me 00:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant to write "Perhaps we should add a link from the dada page to the Rozz Williams page?" but I wrote Nihilism. Once again, I apologies. User: D-Raven

I would reply no to either suggestion. Adding a link (with explanation, in the body of the article, not in the "See also" section) to the articles Dada or Nihilism in the Christian Death page would be appropriate. But neither the articles Dada or Nihilism are about popular music, nor are they places to store links to popular music bands. -Seth Mahoney 19:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

OK. That doesn't sound Dada influenced. At least I don't think so. It sounds influenced by anything with dark, slightly abstract lyrical value. That could have been influenced by anything from Emily Dickinson to Michael Gira to Trent Reznor, but I really don't see Dadaism in that. Put it up next to anything by Tzara, they look nothing alike. sorry : ( --128.205.124.89 02:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

A blogger's -mildly funny- wikispam attempt

The Carton Tragedy link is a wikispam attempt, cf. the Book of Merz link on that article. He vandalized here: Dada#oldid=26106342, user 128.119.132.100.

google "Carton+Tragedy" (arguably) proves Carton Tragedy's fictional nature. He should use uncyclopedia.org to have fun. Ceterum censeo, spam esse delendam - kill him (and her or it too), ex medio tollendus est!

Chronology of Dada Cities

I have a minor quibble about the order in which the Dada cities are listed under the banner "History" on this page. Right now, the cities come in the order of Zurich, Berlin, Cologne, New York, and then Paris. I feel like this is misleading in two important ways.

First, an issue of chronology: the New York and Paris strains arose almost at the same time as Zurich (though you'll never hear me argue against the notion of Zurich as the undeniable birth place), and yet these cities are listed further down than Berlin. Picabia was working in New York as early as 1915, and Duchamp had been there at least since 1913, the year of the Armory Show. Berlin didn't really get fired up until around 1917, when the threat of a longer war emerged with the American entry into it, or even until 1918, when its members found a new source of disgust in post-war corruption, vice, and just general social decay. For these chronological reasons, I feel like Berlin should be moved below NY and Paris, followed by Cologne and The Netherlands, which -- can we all agree? -- are practically after-thoughts when compared to the works from the primary four cities.

The other discrepancy is ideological, but also influences my request for re-ordering the page's layout. The Berlin section makes a good point of showing how that city's manifestation of Dada was markedly more political and harsher in its criticism of social structures than its more anti-art concerns in NY, Paris, or Zurich, so let's push that point home! Moving Berlin down the list past the other cities, like I suggest above, would not only distinguish them on a time line, but would also help reinforce the point that Berlin Dada was notably different in its ideological aims, as well.

I bring up this issue because I'm only a semi-regular editor of Wiki-pages, and I don't even have the html chops to enact the changes I'm proposing. Plus, I want to make sure all you other contributors are on the same boat as me. If you agree with my long-winded reasoning above, could someone please change the layout of this page to help Wiki-visitors better understand the confusion that is Dada?

Thanks for the time, Dan Julius (djulius@luc.edu for any responses)

ahhh nono. yeah new york was early, but paris didn't get "fired up" until Tristan Tzara moved there in late 1919. Chronologically it goes Zurich, New York, Berlin, Cologne, Paris. --128.205.167.6 06:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Nude Descending a Staircase"

Nude Descending a Staircase is more a cubist piece than a Dada piece. Also, it was painted 3 or 4 years before Dada got rolling. Painting wasn't too traditional for Dada, for the most part. (The Ernst painting would more likely be classifed as Surrealist.) Collage is more representative of Dada. And of Duchamp's works Fountain, In Advance of a Broken Arm or Blind Man would better depict Dada. Or Picabia's 391 magazine. >>sparkit|TALK<< 02:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Good call, >>sparkit|, I agree completely. Thanks for improving the article. --Charles 03:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Hannah Höch

I added Hannah Hoch to the Early Practitioners section, as one of her most famous Dadaist works 'Cut With The Kitchen Knife' predated the Dadaist Manifesto by three years and certainly put her at the forefront of the movement. Dustyhodges 11:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Citations for quotes needed in "What is Dada?" section

Currently the section reads:

According to Tristan Tzara, "God and my toothbrush are Dada, and New Yorkers can be Dada too, if they are not already." A reviewer from the American Art News stated that "The Dada philosophy is the sickest, most paralyzing and most destructive thing that has ever originated from the brain of man." Art historians have described Dada as being "in reaction to what many of the artists saw as nothing more than an insane spectacle of collective homicide." Years later, Dada artists described the movement as "a phenomenon bursting forth in the midst of the post-war economic and moral crisis, a savior, a monster, which would lay waste to everything in its path. [It was] a systematic work of destruction and demoralization...In the end it became nothing but an act of sacrilege." Dada was "a revolt against a world that was capable of unspeakable horrors." Reason and logic had led people into the horrors of war; the only route to salvation was to reject logic and embrace anarchy and the irrational.

I put all those s in there, because those are formatted as if they were direct quotes, but are way too vaguely attributed. I sincerely doubt every "art historian" has described it in that exact same phrasing (and surely there was a first person who said that, even if it was repeated), and WHICH artists said those two lovely, striking lines? Cite, people. Don't just tell us some "artists" or "art historians" have said something, tell us which ones said it! I mean, those are all great quotes, very striking and all, very poetic, I love them - but we NEED to know who the heck actually said what, here. 63.21.94.120 03:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I have added references for the first two {{fact}}s. Enjoy, and do improve if you feel the source says something else. (Using various search engines it doesn't have to take very long to find references, and adding them gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, which I'm not sure {{fact}} does

.) -- Woseph 19:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't the section be titled "Wat is Dada?" because of this piece? (by Theo van Doesburg) http://static.flickr.com/35/100391044_891b7e7110_m.jpg Xercessthegreat 10:54, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

No, that would be esoteric, dontcha think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.177.187.2 (talk • contribs)

Dada removed

Idi Amin Dada was added to the "see also" list. A self-referential attempt at Dada within the article? In any case I removed him. ---Sluzzelin 08:56, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Tel Aviv and other modern things

I just took this out:

Tel Aviv

In the early 2000's a group called Free Academy is marked to be an essentialistic Dada group, based in Tel Aviv. Led by Roy Arad and Joshua Simon it had published many articles and idea in the Dadaist spirit, such as planning a coup in City Hall (first ever large scale municipal takeover), moving Tel Aviv's beach to the center of town - into Rabin Square and reading poetry in McDonald's branches throughout the city. They have a special army like salute and recently opened road blocks in the city center, dressed up in highly decorated uniforms. Their film department is called Avriri, and is led by Dadaist filmmaker Nimrod Kamer. "Avriri" main principle is that the making of a film must be held like and regarded as a social event.

It's a modern thing, if it's even true. Perhaps there needs to be a modern section (or even article?) on modern Dada. Until then... Totnesmartin 19:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

and another:

Radiohead's CD Kid A consists of many lyrics said to have been drawn out of a hat, possibly inspired by the dada movement.

Citeable article on Smithsonian website

http://www.smithsonianmagazine.com/issues/2006/may/dada.php?page=1

I haven't read it yet... >>sparkit|TALK<< 15:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Ways Dadaism has been described

this section has been useful in the postmodernism page, perhaps it can be here too. Spencerk 08:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

This seems really out of place and awkward. Ridernyc 20:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Nobody seems to have mentioned an essential aim and penetrating spiritual insight of dadaism: the destruction of the barriers between the sacred and secular, the artistic and non-artistic, the personal and political. I would like to see the spiritual nature of the dada movement addressed, for example, its use of paradox, and it's Zen and parable-like attempts to shock its audience into deep insight and transformation of consciousness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antinomi (talk • contribs) 21:30, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

How is dada pronounced? Dah dah, or dae dah? --125.238.114.96 04:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Need for disambiguation with Dada giri?

"Dada giri" is a word commonly used in India to indicate the act of bullying (example reference: [1]) although the meaning of the word "dada" is "elder brother" in Bengali language (ISO 639-1:bn). The reason I am putting up this question here is that dada-ism (in this Indian context) and Dadaism (in Dada the art phenomenon context) are close interpretations that warrant at least a clarification. What do you think? -Deepraj | Talk 17:07, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Plagiarized

User:72.68.178.189 asserts that "WARNING: THIS PAGE HAS BEEN PLAGIARIZED FROM http://www.museum-online.ru/en/Epoch/Dadaism."

Having watched this article develop over the last several years, I'm certain that the museum-online.ru article was copied from wikipedia, not the other way around. --sparkit^TALK 16:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

hey, sparkit. you might be right. but one's person cursory comment does not settle the issue. i tried to contact the museum-online site but it's in russian. this should be investigated. i've announced a few plagiarized articles on wiki, and they were rightly taken down. if you're right, then we should leave it, but we need to clarify the matter first. btw, if you are an expert on plagiarism, perhaps you should spell check it. sorry to be rude, but the whole point is covering our bases, not our basiz. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.68.178.189 (talk • contribs)

Seeing as half the Internet recycles Wikipedia content, I'd say it's much more likely that that's what's happened here as well. Please refrain from editorialising in articles, it compromises their integrity. Riana ⁂ 17:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

• (ec) I took the "plagiarized" comment from the main article, as it's not appropriate there. From reviewing the edit history of the article here, it looks strongly like the article grew here (as they do) and wasn't a copy/paste job from the Russian site. My immediate instinct on this one is that it may be copyvio all right, but it's not ours. - Alison ☺ 17:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Other articles on that same site are also extracted from wikipedia, Surrealism for example. What is on that site is the surrealism article from wikipedia from about a year ago. I don't expect my comment to settle the issue. Some investigation into the history of this wikipedia Dada article will show the development of the article -- how it came to the state it was in when copied to the other site, and what's happened to it since. For reference, the copyright violation process is here WP:copyvio. --sparkit^TALK 17:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Um... but what is it?

Sorry I've read the article through and I can't honestly say that I am any the wiser as to what Dada is. Surrealism, Nihilism, Post-Modernism, cubism and so forth I've no problem understanding but I'm afraid I couldn't really see anything in the article that plainly told me what Dada is. Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here but can anyone help?AlanD 18:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

You would be better off to read/view/see some of the works by the artists mentioned. It's like the old saying Writing about music is like dancing about architecture. -- 146.115.58.152 07:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. BUt then again surely an encyclopedia article should be able to define the subject of the article so that a layperson can understand it?AlanD 08:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Have another look at the intro -- it was originally a bunch of people protesting war with avant gardé art, and as a cultural movement much has sprung from that. ←Ben^B4 17:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

GA Rereview

As part of the WP:UCGA work, I've put this article up for a GA re-review - the GA was added by an anon IP and the article currently lacks references to support a GA, among other possible problems others may find. --Masem 20:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

This article has been delisted from WP:GA per WP:GA/R. The discussion, now in archive, can be found here. Once the article meets the criteria listed at WP:WIAGA, it may be nominated at WP:GAC. Regards, Lara♥Love 17:12, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The Onion article

Hard To Tell If Wikipedia Entry On Dada Has Been Vandalized Or Not. -- 146.115.58.152 07:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

The next week or so should be very interesting. Rstandefer 14:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

So, which is it?

A) ongoing vandalization is being deleted through vigilant updating

1. Bearian 15:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

B) a deliberate statement on the impermanence of superficial petit-bourgeois culture in the age of modernity

1. ←Leondegrance 22:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
2. ←Plasticup ^T/C 02:31, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

C) voting is evil

1. ←Ben^B4 17:19, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

D) eggbeater

1. ←67.98.206.2 19:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
2. ←Lizz612 19:41, 29 August 2007 (UTC) and then some.

B. Definately B. Though I do wish some of the text in this article was in the form of a Krazy Kat cartoon. Kevin 22:55, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Pi in your face! Bearian 15:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC) 300px This is Krazy Kat. Bearian 15:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Modern usage?

I cut this from the "legacy" section, and I bring it here for discussion:

The satirical Church of the SubGenius pays homage to Dada in its use of the term "Bulldada", which has passed into common usage as a description for concepts and items that are unintentionally ironic.

The Brotherhood of Dada is a fictional gang in DC Comics. They are devoted to all things absurd and bizarre.

The word Dada Core used to describe an underground music movement that originated in south western New York, as a reaction to the "sterile and stagnating" local music scene and overwrought ego of so called Indie rock bands. The genre's definitive act Japanese Lady Boy Massacre is well known for a wide range of musical styles.

Is any of this really relevant? The Church of the SubGenius, I would say, can legitimately be said to be influenced by Dada. Still, it is unreferenced. The comic book reference is really beside the point and trivial. This alleged "music movement" in southwestern New York really stretches the limits of believability, notability, verifiability, and relevance. Even if it were referenced and linked, so what? I would argue that if this section were to be deleted as, essentially, a trivia section, the article would not be hurt one bit. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

"Soiree DADA"

I removed this paragraph from the "legacy" section, and I bring it here for discussion:

In 1996, WNEP Theater in Chicago began performing Soiree DADA, created by Joe Janes and Joel Jeske. The show, which included new Dada sound poetry, short plays and manifestos, continues to be performed in Chicago with occasional events in Los Angeles and New York.

Is this notable enough to merit mention in the article? There are no references, none of the participants have articles, and there is nothing in this paragraph that indicates that this is anything of any particular importance. Plenty of arts groups claim descent from the Dadaists, but we are not going to list them all. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Considering that it was added by an editor with no other edits to his/her credit...I would say it is nothing more than advertising for a non-notable group. IrishGuy ^talk 18:32, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

'World War II to 1920"

When you search 'dada' on google the wikipedia description describes dada as World War II to 1920, obviously incorrect. I don't know how to change it though 220.253.130.134 (talk) 05:53, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Me neither, but it's wonderfully Dadaist! Totnesmartin (talk) 20:12, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Poorly-constructed article

A neophyte reading the "Overview" section will learn nothing, and the next section is about etymology.

Explain what it is in the thesis. Why is this such a hard concept for article editors to understand? 71.131.202.152 (talk) 19:58, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

new page

Crazy World http://free21g.blogspot.com by jose m. fernandez (sevilla, spain) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dadaworld (talk • contribs) 01:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Truisms

I have removed the following and bring it here for discussion. Quotation sections like this are not terribly helpful, as they give no source, and they remove the quotes from their context. Such information, when truly descriptive, edifying, and illuminating, should be integrated into the main text. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 02:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

"Dada is like your hopes: nothing

like your paradise: nothing

like your idols: nothing

like your heroes: nothing

like your artists: nothing

like your religions: nothing" - Francis Picabia

"Before Dada was there, there was Dada." - Hans Arp, 1919

"In principle I am against manifestos, as I am also against principles." - Tristan Tzara, 1919

"I can live without eating and drinking but not without DADA." - George Grosz, 1919

"Art is dead. Long live Dada." - Walter Serner

"I have forced myself to contradict myself in order to avoid conforming to my own taste." - Marcel Duchamp

"The normal state of man is Dada." - First International Dada Fair poster, 1919

"The true dadas are against Dada." - First International Dada Fair poster, 1919

"Art has nothing to do with taste. Art is not there to be tasted." - Max Ernst

"Dada signified nothing, it is nothing, nothing nothing . . ." - Francis Picabia, 1915

"Dada has never claimed to have anything to do with art." - Max Ernst, 1920

"No one can escape from DADA." - Tristan Tzara, 1920

Image copyright problem with File:An Anna Blume.jpg

The image File:An Anna Blume.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --10:45, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

added Fair Use Rationale per request..Modernist (talk) 04:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Derrida?

I removed the following from the lede and bring it here for discussion:

A letter by professors at the University of Cambridge, including W. V. Quine, David Armstrong, Ruth Barcan Marcus, and René Thom, accused renowned philosopher Jaques Derrida's work as being composed of "tricks and gimmicks similar to those of the Dadaists[,]" and that it did "not meet accepted standards of clarity and rigor".

This was inserted by Sweetmoose6 on 13 June without any explanation or edit summary. I fail to see the relevance, and no source is provided to prove this ever even occurred. Regardless, it certainly does not belong in the lede, if it belongs in the article at all. Anyone have any thoughts on this? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 23:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Linked this movement to something bigger.Sweetmoose6 (talk) 04:11, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Removed "Meg Gröss"

I am suspicious of this entry in the list of notable Dadaists. After a bit of research, I have decided to remove it. The top 20 results from a Google Search were Wikipedia mirrors. All the results from a Google Image Search were from this Wikipedia page. She is redlinked (hardly a point for notability). She is not even on the complete List of Dadaists. Thus I have removed it. Please RS notability if replacing.

Peace and Passion ☮  ("I'm listening....") 20:26, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I have found where it was added in: this diff. Makes me think even more that this was a bit of ingenious "test-the-system" vandalism. The umlaut-dots really made it look like a "realistic" entry, compared to the others added at other times, like Barry Humphries!

Peace and Passion ☮  ("I'm listening....") 20:34, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Poor quality Article without adequate references

Inconsistencies regarding the date when Hugo Ball reads manifesto

This Dada page says Hugo read the manifesto on July 14, 1916, but the Cabaret Voltaire page says the manifesto was read on July 28, 1916. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.223.80 (talk) 16:20, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Two sources can contradict one another on such historical details. This is not at all uncommon. Such an inconsistency does not justify your ad hominem attack. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:42, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Woooo; it seems that someone got out of the wrong side of bed. I am sorry if I gave the impression I was making a "ad hominem attack". I am perplexed why you would think I am making an attack. The inconsistencies regarding the date indicate, to my mind, a poor threshold of verifiability. Merely because I raise what I consider to be a valid criticism this does not mean I am making a personal attack. I suggest that if nobody is really sure of the date then perhaps only the month should be included? It seems if editors can pick and choose between a number of dates, for a historical event, then it is impossible to adhere to a neutral point of view? If you wish to engage in further discussion it would be appreciated if you could assume good faith regarding my comments. I am merely seeking to improve upon the articles in question. 81.154.18.132 (talk) 10:52, 9 April 2010 (UTC)XVarn