Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Featured log/February 2011

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [1].

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Grammy Award for Best Rock Song

Nominator(s): Another Believer _(Talk) 00:34, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this list for FL status because I believe it meets all criteria and closely resembles the other Grammy-related lists with FL status. Just a couple more rock lists to go and all of the rock music categories will have FL status!

One comment for this list: the award honors songwriters, so in the Nominees column I went ahead and included the songwriter(s) following the performing artist(s) and works. However, due to space limitations, I did not do the same for the Songwriter(s) column if the recipients were a band with multiple members. I think it's safe to say that if one sees "U2" is designated as the songwriter then members of that band wrote the song (and they can click on the link to the article for that band if they are not familiar with the members). If reviewers think this is an instance of inconsistency, feel free to offer suggestions. One possibility is to present the information the same way in the Nominees column (band name instead of individual band members). Thanks, as always, to reviews to taking the time to offer suggestions. --Another Believer _(Talk) 00:34, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support The only issue I found was that the image of Sting needs a full stop/period per WP:CAPTION as it is a full sentence. Adabow (talk · contribs) 19:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Done. --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support – Another great list in this series. Couldn't find anything to comment on. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:32, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 21:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments "Two-time recipients.." rather assumes there were no 3-time winners? Perhaps "Other winners of multiple awards include.. with two." (or something far more elegant...!) Works for me! Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC) What does the stuff in parentheses mean in the nominees column? Songwriter credits. See my starting comment above. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Jon Buckland, according to Wikipedia, is best known as Jonny Buckland. Is he called Jon here because that's his credit on the nomination? Presumably, yes. However, I think "Jonny Buckland" is best for consistency. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Not sure if you should link all members of a band when most/all members link back to the band (e.g. Nickelback, Train, Mumford & Sons etc) Ah! I thought I was on top of linking only band members with their own article. I will go through the list again and remove re-directs. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:48, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Your caption names the Kings of Leon members but not U2 members, is that because you're assuming we all know who The Edge is?! Certainly not! :p I am not familiar with most of these bands--I just created captions based on the image descriptions provided or the caption that appeared on the article I took the image from (with edits to relate to the list, of course). Let me know if any caption requires additional specificity. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Just think U2 seems to stand out for not naming the members, Bono, The Edge, Clayton and Mullen all have their own articles... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:10, 7 February 2011 (UTC) No prob. Better? --Another Believer (Talk) 21:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 19:24, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Thanks! --Another Believer (Talk) 20:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support kapow. Great work, once again. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Courcelles 21:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
*Comment In addition to TRM's comments, make sure every nominee has those parenthesis if you're going to use them- see 1996. Courcelles 20:14, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Done. Thanks! --Another Believer (Talk) 20:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support Courcelles 21:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 18:15, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [2].

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Latin Recording Academy Person of the Year

Nominator(s): Another Believer _(Talk) 18:06, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets all criteria and closely resembles (and provides even more detail than) the MusiCares Person of the Year list, which has FL status. Thanks, reviewers, for your assistance! Another Believer _(Talk) 18:06, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

• Quick comment b.1942 -> b. 1942-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 19:13, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Done. --Another Believer _(Talk) 19:55, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 21:28, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments "Latin Recording Academy Person of the Year" (per the title) or "Latin Recording Academy's Person of the Year" per the lead and infobox? Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC) I think most organisations refer to the week of Latin Grammy week with a capital W. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC) You say Gloria is Cuban American after mentioning her (also) Cuban American husband without referring to his nationality. Seems an odd way round. Better? Must have been an odd lead construction process. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC) "Gloria received the.." I think you could safely say "She (had previously) received.."? Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC) "The .. award was presented to ..." starts two paras, a tiny bit repetitive. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC) Uber picky but I don't like the use of {{cite news}} for online references, especially as (for whatever stupid reason) it formats differently from the {{cite web}} parameters (e.g. publication date in parentheses...) I, too, am bothered by the formatting differences sometimes, but I think those discrepancies should be discussed at the template talk pages. I have been asked several times to use "cite news" templates for news sources regardless of whether they are online or printed. For the sake of using the template one is probably supposed to use, I would prefer to leave the ref formatting as is for now. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC) I understand. This wasn't intended to be a criticism of the list, more a despair over the inconsistent template formats. I wouldn't argue if you use {{cite web}} for all web-based resources, but if you've been told otherwise... ! The Rambling Man (talk) 18:06, 31 January 2011 (UTC) I have been told otherwise. Also, I have noticed that the references display differently depending on the parameters entered. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:08, 31 January 2011 (UTC) Yeah, still not keen but not going to be opinionated about it! Good work on the list. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:42, 31 January 2011 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 18:29, 30 January 2011 (UTC) Thanks, TRM! Please let me know if there are any additional concerns that need to be addressed. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

• Comment - the "recipient" column, on my screen at least, is enormously wide, about twice the width of any of the names. Is there any reason for this? Otherwise, all looks OK -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:59, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Reduced column width by 100px. Thanks! --Another Believer _(Talk) 16:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support - all looks alright now -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:50, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support - got no issues with this list, good quick response (as ever) The Rambling Man (talk) 19:09, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Courcelles 20:23, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

*Comment My one concern is that the birth years aren't in the references, at least for the three I checked. Courcelles 19:30, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Hmm, true. I got lifetime details from the Wikipedia articles about the subjects. Let me know if you feel citing birth years is necessary. I included years so readers could get a general idea of age and whether or not the artist is still alive. Keep in mind, none of the Grammy lists have a reference specifically citing which nation the performing artists are from. --Another Believer (Talk) 19:34, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Ouch, I think that may created another problem...!! If you take WP:REF to its letter, anything challenged (or challengeable) should be referenced, and here, Courcelles has challenged the birth years... Just putting it out there.. ! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC) I'd be happy to add references for birth years. --Another Believer (Talk) 19:39, 7 February 2011 (UTC) I think that's the best approach. Alternatively decide if birth years are really relevant to the list and skip the column altogether? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:42, 7 February 2011 (UTC) (edit conflict)I don't really doubt they're right, but I also know how often vandals have "fun" by changing folks DOB in their biographies, so trusting ourselves to be internally correct does concern me a bit. Courcelles 19:45, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:18, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support, good work as usual. Courcelles 20:23, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 14:49, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [3].

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Hugo Award for Best Professional Artist

Nominator(s): PresN 22:33, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Back once more with the 11th of 14 lists. We're definitely winding down this cruise of the Hugo awards; we're done with all the written works, the magazines, editors, and movies, so we now move on to Best Professional Artist. Unlike other Hugo awards, there's no mention of what works the artists in question worked on in the eligibility year; the award is simply noted as going to such-and-such. This makes the table narrower than previous nominations, though I kept the same format. I've tried to incorporate suggestions and changes from previous nominations into this list, as usual. Thanks for reviewing! --PresN 22:33, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:14, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments Wow, I just had a terrible thought. Any chance that any of these (or other Hugo Award recipients) have images? It would be nice to see something to "bling up" the list if possible (but I accept that means heading back to the other 10 lists for consistency)... That is a terrible thought! I'll look and see if I can find enough free-use images for this article. I don't think I want them for most of the other articles, such as novels, as I'd need pictures of the winning novels, not who wrote them, but for these "people" awards it makes sense to have pictures of the winners. No promises on this one- despite winning this award, these guys are famous only in a small niche, so free-use photos might be difficult. Is that the best link you could find for artist? If so, it's probably not even worth linking... Delinked. "These five works on the ballot are the five most-nominated ..." perhaps just "These five works on the ballot are those most-nominated.." to reduce repetitive use of "five".... Done. "The 1953 through 1958 awards did ..." reads very awkwardly to me (as a Brit), perhaps "Awards from 1953 to 1958 did not..."? Reworded. "and are held in a different city around " don't need to repeat "are held" (in my opinion). Removed. Note 1 probably needs citation. Got one that states that no awards at all had to be given in a year for it to be eligible to be a retro year. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:24, 27 January 2011 (UTC) Commented inline. --PresN 21:52, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support – Went through the list and found nothing that concerned me. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support went back through the list after my niggles, no problemo for me. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support Standard fare, you know what you're doing, no issues to my eye. Courcelles 19:18, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [4].

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List of international cricket centuries by Jacques Kallis

Nominator(s): Harrias ^talk 12:43, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Another cricket centuries list, from perhaps one of the most underrated cricketers currently plying his trade on the international circuit. This one follows the format of those that have come before it, but as usual I expect a few things will crop up! Look forward to your comments and suggestions. Harrias ^talk 12:43, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:19, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments "the greatest cricketer ever" - one source says this, so I'm not entirely convinced. Although it's factually accurate, it's just POV, albeit of a single published journalist... you know what I mean? I know exactly what you mean: I deliberated long and hard over whether to put this in. I'll probably take it out, but for the moment I will leave it there to consider how to rephrase the opening. Harrias talk 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC) "best all-rounders of all time" unfortunate repeat of "all..." reads a little awkwardly for me. Assuming the above quote is taken out, 'off all time' could be replaced by 'ever'?Harrias talk 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC) "a run he continued in his ..." I think he "extended" the run... Done, changed as suggested. Harrias talk 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC) "Kallis reached his 22nd century during the 2004–05 tour of the West Indies, and passed Gary Kirsten as South Africa's leading run-scorer in Test cricket." I think the facts are the wrong way round. Becoming top SA scorer is much more relevant than it being his 22nd century. Done: Absolutely: changed order of the sentence. Harrias talk 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC) You have "Sir Donald Bradman" and also "Don Bradman" - perhaps the second could just be "Bradman"? Done, changed as suggested. Harrias talk 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC) You link both not out and unbeaten to the same thing. Perhaps, for the sake of non-experts, stick to the same phrasing? I linked them both so that I could use them both; I didn't like to repeat the one phrase twice. Can change it, but will wait for further opinion unless you feel strongly about this. Harrias talk 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC) "a run-a-ball" not sure this should be hyphenated. I've never seen it written that way. Perhaps "one run per delivery" or something for accessibility to non-experts? Done, changed as suggested. Yeah, I just couldn't think of the best way to write it!Harrias talk 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC) "behind only the 21 scored" no need for "only". Done, changed as suggested. Sensationalism creeps in! Harrias talk 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC) Please note the discussion over the accessibility of the "suit symbols", e.g. the spade symbol, here. Hopefully we can replace the existing symbols with those that can be interpreted by screen readers in due course. Done, changed to {{dagger}}. Harrias talk 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC) Now changed to {{double-dagger}} to avoid confusion with the standard use of the single dagger / cross to represent a wicket-keeper.Harrias talk 22:04, 17 January 2011 (UTC) I was just this second going to suggest you did that. You read my mind. And thanks for taking the time to do the ACCESS thing. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:05, 17 January 2011 (UTC) That's fine: we want as many people as possible to be able to use this information. I've gone through all my other featured lists and made the changes too. Harrias talk 22:14, 17 January 2011 (UTC) In the table, is "Date" the date of the start of the match or the start of the innings or something else? Done, added to key. Harrias talk 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC) Maybe (just maybe) consider a "South African cricket..." category... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:12, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support – Meets FL standards. Full disclosure: I made a cleanup edit right after the article was created, when it was up for DYK. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:38, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support made one minor edit regarding which "South Africa" needed linking first in the key, but otherwise an excellent addition, stable, factually correct, well referenced and a good addition to our numerous cricket FLs. Well done. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:37, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Courcelles 19:59, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

*Comments Just noticed that we never point out that a century has to be 100 runs in a single innings. Given he scored two centuries in one match, worth doing. Surely we have a link for "strike-rate" for the uninitiated? Not out is linked three times in the lede. Any reason why? Is there a reason not to give the strike rate for the test matches? There is, and it's rather assumptive to be fair. Test cricket is not about how quickly a player scores, so strike rate is rarely, if ever, even mentioned in a Test cricket scenario. I accept it's cricket-centric, a little like some of those many baseball stats we Brits find utterly inaccessible! Finding a ref to say what I've just said may be difficult though... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:16, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Courcelles 19:14, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Thanks for your comments: I have expanded the definition of century to include "in a single innings", and have linked strike-rate (I hadn't got it in before as I'd linked to strike-rate from "runs per hundred balls" just beforehand). Have unlinked not out in one place in the lead, think the other occasions are suitably linked. And I refer to TRMs comment regarding strike-rate in Test matches: it's not the most relevant statistic. Harrias talk 19:47, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support Thanks for the explanation, gents. Courcelles 19:59, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [5].

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List of Manchester United F.C. players (fewer than 25 appearances)

Nominator(s): 03md 02:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it could be ready to become a featured list. 03md 02:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Comment: It looks as though the bulk of this page (i.e., the entire table, over 420 entries) depends entirely on one Web site. I'm wondering if it would be more appropriate copyright-wise to keep the text at the top and the photos at the right, lop off the entire table at the bottom, and add www.stretfordend.co.uk to the External Links section. Same for the List of Manchester United F.C. players (25–99 appearances), which takes some 214 more entries from www.stretfordend.co.uk. I know they wouldn't be lists then, but it'd save us the embarrassment of ripping off what I think is an entire Web site. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 07:06, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

• I actually took my information for the majority of the entries from the general reference by Ivan Ponting (listed at the bottom of the article). The list follows the format of List of Manchester United F.C. players and exists as a seperate article due to size constraints. Would it be appropriate to just reference from the website for post-2008 players (as the book only goes up to this point). 03md 00:52, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments –

• The hyphen after 1908 in the first paragraph should be an en dash.
  • Now there's nothing there at all. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:06, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
• Add "and", replacing the comma in "along with 11 FA Cups, four Football League Cups."
• Decapitalize Champions.
• The Reference column can be shortened to Ref or similar. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:18, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

• All done. 03md 12:49, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

• Comments - I dislike the idea of two separate formats for the key can't the Table header key and position key be formatted in the same way?. The fair-use for the Frank Buckley image prohibits use in the article. Afro (Talk) 20:02, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

• Why does this list exit? Is an under 25 caps at Manchester notable enough to create a list out of it? Do all players that played for Manchester deserve a list? Nergaal (talk) 02:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Even then, the intro should mention the highest goalscorer in this category, and possibly how many played only once. Nergaal (talk) 02:52, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
    • I'd assume that, as a list of all players who've ever played for the club (well over 1000, I would estimate) would be unfeasibly enromous, it has been broken down into subsections per WP:SIZE. You could eqaully ask why Philadelphia Phillies all-time roster (A), which is already at FL status, exists when there is nothing specifically notable about the combination of having played for the Phillies and having a surname beginning with A....... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:10, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
      • I did not say don't include the players playing at the club, just not all of them. Those playing one game, and not even having their full name are just too not notable. I think part of this list should be merged into the 100-25 one and about 90% of it just discarded. Nergaal (talk) 18:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
        • ......which would presumably leave us with List of some, but not all, Manchester United F.C. players (fewer than 100 appearances) - how would that work exactly.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:06, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

• On the Phillies list which was brought up earlier people of note in A are 3 hall of famers one of which has a retired number, just to clear that up. Maybe if we're discussing a content move it'd be easier to have it as List of notable people Manchester United F.C. players with fewer than 25 appearances. Afro (Talk) 03:09, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

• The Phillies B list (also an existing FL) contains 179 players of which 4 are in the HoF (2.2%) but it also contains such total non-entities as Dan Boitano (only 1 inning pitched for the team), Art Bramhall (1 career at-bat) and Joe Bennett (1 game played in his entire career with no at-bats). The Man U list also contains some former football greats (Henrik Larsson, Peter Beardsley) alongside comparative nobodies. If it is acceptable for the Phillies to have multiple such FLs, why not Man U......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:11, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose wp:CFORK of the sub 100 caps one. Nergaal (talk) 18:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

• The two sub-100 lists can be merged if it is a problem. 03md 22:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:13, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments Not convinced the list is going to be particularly stable, it's going to be prone to {{update}} after every match or so. Agree with Chris that the existence is probably as arbitrarily acceptable as Phillies (A) etc. An example of the potential instability is what you have in the lead : "As of December 2010, a total of 424 players have played fewer than 25 competitive matches..." this could change on a regular basis. This is the case for all team articles. 03md 22:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC) Oh, and oddly, I'd make it into the list because I've made fewer than 25 appearances for MUFC... This is the title of similar articles for other clubs and I can't think of an alternative. The fact that it is "Man United players" should remove that ambiguity. 03md 22:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC) What makes mufcinfo.com reliable? The whole list is referenced by the general reference so these links can be removed if necessary. 03md 22:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC) Some spaced hyphens in those reference titles, should be en-dashes. Done. 03md 22:58, 18 January 2011 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 19:11, 13 January 2011 (UTC) This list seems to be sorted initially by the career years. Seems a little odd to me, why not just by name? In any case, there's a problem because if you sort by years, the list changes (slightly) so something's out of order. I followed the layout of List of Manchester United F.C. players. I'm not sure what is causing an error in the article. 03md 22:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC) Well, try sorting it yourself, you'll see that Owen/Doughty reverse order when sorting initially by span. I guess it should be alphabetical when the starting year is the same. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC) "If a player played international football, the country/countries he played for are shown. Otherwise, the player's nationality is given as their country of birth." - how do I tell the difference? Should I add in a column for international caps while at the club? 03md 22:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC) You should distinguish between the two categories of players you've mentioned here. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

• Technically, List of Manchester United F.C. players should list all the players to have made an appearance for the club as anyone to have played professional football is considered notable under WP:Notability. However it is unfeasible to have a list of 1000 players so for size reasons it has been split. I took a similar approach as for the Birmingham, Huddersfield etc. in terms of splitting up the players.

Comments If this list is failed primarily on the grounds that it is an excessive split, I will nominate the A, B and C (and if applicable, D) Phillies lists for FLRC. Although my personal opinion is that the Manchester United lists could easily be consolidated into two, United make a far stronger case for three lists than the Phillies do for twenty-one. —WFC— 15:24, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from WFC

*To say Larsson "inspired" United to the title is arguably true, but a pretty strong claim. —WFC— Changed the wording slightly. 03md 02:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC) While I think Jimmy Davis does merit a special mention in the lead, Geoff Bent should receive the same treatment. Same goes if any players on this list had their Manchester United careers ended by being killed in wartime. Added Geoff Bent to lede but will have to find out about wartime deaths. 03md 02:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC) I have concerns over whether the 424 statistic could/would be accurately updated if you were to stop editing the list. I have inserted similar phrases into similar lists in the past. But while it is possible to verify the total number of players for a club, or the total number of drivers in a racing category, it would be far harder to do so for the number of players below an arbitrary appearance threshold. —WFC— I don't think this is really too much of an issue, as only a handful of new players are added to or removed from the list each year, with Fabio and Smalling are the only two members of the current playing staff who may reach 25 appearances by the end of this season, for example. 03md 02:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC) I feel this is a valid list, as expressed above. My personal preference would be for two lists, but 1-100 and >100 would be a lopsided split, so in the absence of consensus on the issue I think consolidation would be an unreasonable demand to make. —WFC— 20:14, 26 January 2011 (UTC) Unless a player literally played everywhere (like Steve Palmer, for instance), I'm not too keen on the "utility player" designation. As an example, Roger Doughty is listed on his page as an outside left and right back. Surely it would be more informative to communicate both positions? —WFC— The policy adopted by the main Manchester United players article was that players were designated as "GK", "DF", "MF" or "FW" regardless of their exact defensive or attacking position, with "HB" and "FB" for pre-1960s players. I could make list both positions for Doughty though if you feel this would be better rather than "Utility". 03md 02:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC) I think that would be a good approach. Given how messy Andrei Kanchelskis's nationality is on the main list, I don't really get why the authors there decided that two positions was too much. —WFC— 00:00, 30 January 2011 (UTC) Done. 03md 19:04, 30 January 2011 (UTC) Cool. One last thing on this subject- the row in the key and corresponding note are now redundant. —WFC— 01:30, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support, no further problems. Well done! —WFC— 18:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

• Thanks for your feedback. 03md 23:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Courcelles 09:19, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

*Comments In a paper encyclopaedia, this list would not exist. Not because listing everyone who has played for MUFC is not notable, but rather because on paper you can just keep going and going. Here, we have WP:SIZE for a reason, and a breakup that contains 400 names is in no way a fork. (I think the alphabetical split of the Phillies lists, while creating more articles, is slightly more user-friendly, but that's likely just me. (And editor friendly, as noone ever needs to be moved between lists using that format)) See my comment about updating the list above. 03md 02:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC) "A further 22 players made more than 20 appearances in their Manchester United career." Uh... everyone on the other lists has made more than 20 appearances, too... Removed this sentence. 03md 02:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC) File:Major Frank Buckley.jpg is a non-free image without hint of a fair-use rationale for this use. One will not be able to be written for this article anyway, so remove it. Removed. 03md 02:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC) Who publishes StretfordEnd.co.uk? Courcelles 21:21, 26 January 2011 (UTC) Suggestion: add StretfordEnd.co.uk as a general ref (keep the specific ones too though). This would enable you to add every minute bit of information there is about the ref, without the need to repeat anything more than is necessary the other 420-odd times. In answer to Courcelles' question, it's published by Barn End Media [6] —WFC— 00:00, 30 January 2011 (UTC) Thanks mate. I've added this as a general reference. 03md 19:04, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support Courcelles 09:19, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

• Thanks mate. 03md 23:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

• Actually, I'm rather interested in Courcelles' first point. Would it be better from a stability and usability point of view to list these players by surname, rather than appearances, like the Phillies? I think the notability stems from them actually playing for MUFC, not how many times they've played for MUFC, but that is my opinion.... It may be that we need a wider discussion on this. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:13, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

• I think a broad discussion would be needed on the issue of appearances vs surnames, as the majority of clubs have a list of players who have reached a certain appearance threshold. I had the idea for the lists after seeing List of Manchester United F.C. players, which imho is a very good list and allows for discussion about the most successful players to appear for the club. In multiple alphabetical lists, this would be much more difficult to achieve. 02:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

• Agreed. But I'm confused by the difference between this list and the Phillies one. Are you arguing against a Phillies alphabetical list? And what do you mean by "most successful players"? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

• By most successful players, I meant the players featured on List of Manchester United F.C. players who have reached a certain appearance threshold. Alphabetical lists would limit the sorting functionality to the number of appearances by players beginning with a particular letter. Other sports may take different approaches but, in football, the most significant statistics are the appearances and goals. 03md 17:39, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

• Comment I don't know enough on the topic to properly review the list, but I see nothing wrong with the split style. The Phillies' list went with the alphabetical style laid out in the Medal of Honor lists because (I assume, I chatted with KV5 on these lists but not about this particular reason) baseball "appearances" are less clear (how do you weigh pitchers vs. hitters? Or pinch hitters/runners? Or even defensive replacements?). So long as the overall roster is notable, which it clearly is, then it simply becomes a WP:ACCESS issue of how to best present the information in a manageable and readable way. I see nothing wrong with either approach, appearances or alphabet, so long as the field/topic allows it (hence the alphabetical styling for baseball). Note that, for example, List of Major League Baseball players with a career .400 on-base percentage has a "appearances" style cut-off (though not in the title) requiring at least 3,000 plate appearances both because that's what the excellent B-Ref uses but also because it draws a nice WP:ACCESS balance of not including the quickies who don't really belong amongst the long term .400-ers. Staxringold _talk^contribs 01:13, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support - I see no problems here, and I don't have any issues with the splitting. You just need to switch round refs 2 and 3 after "....winning the European Cup" so that they're in numerical order -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

• Done. Thanks for your feedback Chris. 03md 23:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

• Weak support no major traumas. I still think, if the initial sort is by span, then when I force the table to sort by span, Doughty shouldn't move, but no biggie. Probably blame lack of support for Safari on this one. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [7].

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List of demolished places of worship in Brighton and Hove

Nominator(s): Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 18:36, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

This is a companion list to the longer established List of places of worship in Brighton and Hove. Having reviewed the sources on several occasions, I am confident that I have found every former, now-demolished place of worship in the city (even the really obscure ones, and there are a few of those). Each is given a comprehensive summary "blurb". None have separate articles, but in my view there is not really enough material to produce a standalone article about any of them – and in any case I would argue that the notability threshold would have to be higher for a building that is no longer is existence. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 18:36, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

• Suggestion: I don't like the table very much. My suggestions:
  1. Replace the table with mine in my sandbox or
  2. Keep the tables but place the pics besides the table to the right.

I prefer suggestion number one. Remember it is just a suggestion :). Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 11:46, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately #1 doesn't like my screen resolution or something: it has made the table about six times wider than the screen, so I have to scroll across a very long way to get to the end. On #2: since there are few relevant pictures for this list, I deliberately placed them throughout the first three paragraphs to break up the walls of text. Hope that sounds reasonable. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 12:05, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

It might be useful to note the width in the table in his sandbox is 550%. Afro (Talk) 13:54, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Mh, my screen shows it normally. If it is so, then it shouldn't be replaced. But I don't like the space right beside of the table. Has anyone a suggestion how to delete this space? The list is very good, but triffles like this space might be improved, if it is possible. Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 17:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll need help/advice with this from others who have different screen settings, as everything looks completely "correct" on my home and work computers (I use IE8 and IE6 respectively). Hopefully there might be a solution that accommodates all variants. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:29, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments nice list. "The city was granted that status in 2000 " slightly confusing reading. I had to click the link to understand the sentence... →Now reworded, hopefully a bit clearer. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) " the fashionable" is that a fact? Is it referenced? →Refs now added, also for Hove's mostly Victorian residential status. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) "Both places ... had..." reads quite colloquially to me. Could we "elegantise" this? →I've rewritten the whole sentence. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) Not 100% convinced you need to link all of "More than 150 of these survive" - perhaps just link "survive"? Although it's not a big deal by any means. →I've cut down the link to just "survive". Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) "one in particular survived" always interested in the "in particular" thing. What does that add? →Removed. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) Perhaps link pew for non-experts. →Linked. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) Not keen on whole sentences in parentheses, not sure I see the point...! If it's a footnote, make it so.. →Probably pertinent enough to stay in the body of the text rather than be put in a note, so I have removed the parentheses. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) "Six of the 11 Wagner" just say eleven here for MOS consistency. →Done. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) "a former Urban District " just "urban district" would be fine. →Done. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) Do you really need to relink Hove in the displaced congregations section? →Unlinked. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) "and (because of the Congregational–Presbyterian merger) surplus to" replace parentheses with commas here. →Done, but I have replaced a comma earlier in the sentence with a semicolon in case there is comma overload. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) Consider linking Mass for non-experts. →First instance linked. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 18:41, 2 January 2011 (UTC) Thanks for your comments and observations; changes are highlighted in this diff. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) On my browser the images squash the main list up a bit. →In reference to my note above, I'll see if anybody can suggest anything to improve the layout. Is it happening just in the Displaced Congregations paragraph, or in all three paragraphs where there are images? Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC) I'm using horizontal resolution of around 1050 pixels, it's probably because of the Christ the King church image which ends up leaking over and squishing the table up. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:29, 2 January 2011 (UTC) I;ve taken out the Circus Street Market pic from above it, which should give more room in that paragraph. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:38, 2 January 2011 (UTC) Bingo. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support happy now, very nice piece of work. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:40, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support Is it really necessary to link the c. (circa) so much? Anyway, I support this. It is really sad that there are no pics with licenses :/. Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 17:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Courcelles 20:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

*Comments How confident are we that this is a complete list? Is there a source for the 38 number, or is that arrived at by counting the items on the list? "knocked down" is rather informal language for an encyclopaedia. I think all of these are places of Christian worship. Is that worth pointing out? Courcelles 19:04, 7 February 2011 (UTC) Thanks for your comments Courcelles; →There is no single definitive source for the total number of demolished churches; the 38 is reached by counting, so I could replace with e.g. "more than 30" if preferred (I have done this for now). →All examples changed (although difficult to find varied wording!). →All were indeed Christian churches; B&H's places of worship have always been almost exclusively Christian (today, of about 160 places of worship, the only exceptions are two mosques); I have altered a sentence in the lead anyway, though. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 20:05, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support AS to the "more than 30", it's ugly, but until a number can be sourced, better not to assume everything that could be listed is listed. Courcelles 20:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [8].

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List of Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves recipients (1943)

Nominator(s): MisterBee1966 (talk) 08:05, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this as the third of five lists for featured list because I feel this list already meets the criteria. Due to the few number of recipients in the years 1940 and 1941 the two years had to be merged into one list. Once completed the five lists 1940–1941 (currently a featured list), 1942 (currently a featured list), 1943, 1944 and 1945 will comprise all of the generally accepted 882 recipients of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves. I welcome any constructive feedback. Thanks in advance. MisterBee1966 (talk) 08:05, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:53, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments Why is "court martial" in quotes, and why isn't it hyphenated, like our own article? done MisterBee1966 (talk) 19:17, 2 January 2011 (UTC) "therefore denoted in brackets" - you mean parentheses. done MisterBee1966 (talk) 19:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC) Generalleutnant and Generalmajor link to the same page, this is confusing. Generalleutnant#World War II explains the difference. Please advise on how you want me to handle this. MisterBee1966 (talk) 19:57, 2 January 2011 (UTC) Okay, well it's a shame it couldn't linked more directly for each term, but no major issue. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:03, 2 January 2011 (UTC) Consider using {{cite web}} for the external links and use the language parameter if these are (as they look) German language. done MisterBee1966 (talk) 19:51, 2 January 2011 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 17:50, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Quick comments –

• Recipients of 1943: In the parenthetical Army, there's a bracket that shouldn't be there.
  • done MisterBee1966 (talk) 20:34, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
• If possible, make it so that note 15 doesn't have the contraction ("hadn't").
  • done MisterBee1966 (talk) 21:02, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
• Minor again, but reference 126 has a stray quotation mark. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:29, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
  • done MisterBee1966 (talk) 20:37, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support Comment:
  • in Note # 15: "Stadler himself claimed that Dietrich proposed him on 22 March 1945..." I don't believe that "proposed him" is grammatically correct. I'm not exactly sure what is meant by it, so I haven't tweaked it. Are you using it to say "presented the medal to him"? If so, I think it should be changed to that. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 00:41, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
    • It better reads as "claimed that Dietrich had nominated him on 22 March 1945". Does this work? MisterBee1966 (talk) 17:12, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
      • Yes, that works for me. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 20:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support, a well-written list that I see no problems with. Only concern I may have is the number of redlinks, since I'm sure they could all be blue, but that's not an FLC issue. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 19:48, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support next up, 1944/45? Good, patient work. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support Nice work!Intothatdarkness (talk) 18:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support As I would expect, you have this down by now. Courcelles 18:50, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 18:47, 7 February 2011 [9].

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Philadelphia Phillies all-time roster (D)

Nominator(s): — KV5 • Talk • 02:40, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I haven't been around much lately, but I just saw that the C list passed, and the D one has been sitting around waiting to go, so other than the fact that I haven't done the alt text yet, have at it. All comments addressed as expediently as possible. — KV5 • Talk • 02:40, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

• Comment on accessibility: Apart from the missing alt text, the article has a high standard of accessibility. I'll be happy to support on those grounds once alt text is added. --RexxS (talk) 03:06, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

• Alt text done. — KV5 • Talk • 13:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support - all the accessibility issues have been resolved. --RexxS (talk) 14:41, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:04, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments " (plaque thereon pictured)." a little anachronistic for me, maybe "(plaque pictured)". Question: when the next season starts and more players play for the team, 26 articles (or so) will need updating just because they say how many players (1,881 so far) have played for the Phillies. You need to make sure these will all be updated as and when or have you considered (or do you already use) a template? "Hit" is linked to two different articles which is confusing to a non-expert. Ed Delahanty is the only one you mention in the lead, so you don't need to repeat his first name. ERA is not linked or explained. I think we've established that just italics aren't good enough for WP:ACCESS unless you write in the key "Italics indicate that ...", but for clarity, talk to User:RexxS. He's an ACCESS diamond. "Phillies bullpen" should that be "Phillies' bullpen"? Okay, note S says stats are cool up to the end of the 2010 season. Do you intend to update this list just once per year? It would be worth noting that from the start perhaps. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:38, 20 January 2011 (UTC) Few replies: Template for multi-use numbers is already in use. Either "Phillies bullpen" or "Phillies' bullpen" are acceptable use; one uses the team name as an adjective and the other as a possessive. And yes, stats will only be updated at the end of a season; players who join the team in-season are noted with the year and a note in the final column saying that they joined the team during the season. The rest I'll address probably... Saturday morning Eastern Time at best estimate. — KV5 • Talk • 02:34, 21 January 2011 (UTC) Or I could just do them now. Plaque done, hit done, Delahanty done. ERA was linked (earned run average) but I forgot to write in the abbreviation after first use. I'm sure RexxS will check back in here after I do alt text (which I can't do right now) and then maybe he can weigh in on the italics. Adding the statement to the key is easy if necessary, as it's also a template. — KV5 • Talk • 02:45, 21 January 2011 (UTC) I checked in anyway :D. I'd just amend Template:Philadelphia Phillies all-time roster/Key in the Year row to say something like "Italic text indicates that the player is a member of the Phillies' active (25-man) roster" – that would warn JAWS users like Graham87 to turn on presentational announcements, and they would then hear where you italicised the year in the main table. The other option (of abandoning italics in favour of yet another symbol) may be accessible to a slightly larger audience, but as italics are already used for this in 21 of your articles, it would be churlish of me to suggest that amount of change for a minor gain. --RexxS (talk) 00:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC) Easy enough. Done. — KV5 • Talk • 12:59, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments –

• Change "an" to "a" in "He amassed an 42–36 pitching record".
• Jose DeJesus isn't sorting in the proper order in the table. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:20, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Done both. — KV5 • Talk • 22:37, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support – Meets FL standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:15, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support With one question/request. Could you add the general Phillies template to the bottom of each roster sub-article? They look naked with no nav-box down there, IMO, and it makes sense (at least to me) to have access to general Phillies' articles from these. Staxringold _talk^contribs 01:05, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

• One of the previous FLCs brought this up. I agree with the need for a navbox, but neither this article nor the other sublists are linked from the main Phillies template, so its inclusion wouldn't be appropriate here. — KV5 • Talk • 01:09, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Only issue I have is in one of the images, it reads "Ed Daily won 42 games and hit 6 home runs." The six can be written out. If numbers under ten are in that form near a larger number, than a couple different images need to be tweaked so it's consistent. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 19:56, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

• I consider those to be "comparable quantities", a listed exception in MOS:NUM. — KV5 • Talk • 21:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:40, 3 February 2011 [10].

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List of Oxford United F.C. records and statistics

Nominator(s): Eddie6705 (talk) 21:29, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because i spent quite a while working on this list in my sandbox, refering to List of Manchester United F.C. records and statistics and List of Gillingham F.C. records and statistics as i did. I feel it passes the FL criteria, but am more than happy to correct anything which you feel isn't quite right. Eddie6705 (talk) 21:29, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 21:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Oppose Somewhat troubling I get the feeling this is based on the first of these lists to be promoted, namely the Ipswich one, so I'd better be careful! Would be best to say "association football" (because so many of our readers don't understand that football is football, it could be played by massive blokes in body armour..) Done. "before changing its name in " (presumably to OUFC) this is not clear. Done. "Oxford spent three years in the First Division between 1985 and 1988." that's four years.... Made Clearer. "2010–11 season" vs "2005–2006 season" consistent year format. Done. "first major-trophy" not sure that needs a hyphen. Removed. Also not sure what a "major" trophy is. Added note. "Football Conference They returned" missing some punctuation here, and probably the references for the previous sentence. Added full stop. "Conference National Play-off Final in 2010." ref? Added ref. Queen's Park.. should be Queens Park... Changed. Could link directly to 1986 Football League Cup Final for the cup win. Changed Link. "League cup" ->Cup. Corrected. "The Third Division, Second Division and League cup victories all occurred within the space of two years" not true - you said they won the third division twice, so they couldn't do this, and the second division within two years. Clarified. "Pre-advent"/"Post-advent" - let's talk straight - "Before the .." and "Following the..."? Differently worded. Appearances "other" column doesn't sort correctly in Safari. Notes, in that table, don't need to be sortable. Done, also for top goalscorers. "Most goals in a Football League match: 4, 6 players.[29]" I don't understand this at all. 4 goals, 6 players? Oh, hang on. Four goals have been scored by an individual on six different occasions? Not clear... Changed. Top goalscorers, Total doesn't sort correctly in Safari. "Appearances are included in brackets. " I guess you mean "substitute appearances are included in parentheses"? It's getting confusing what italics mean in this table as well. Changed and Removed the italics which were emphasing the sub apps. Total Caps -> Total caps. Done. Transfer fee tables suddenly become unsortable, why? Don't know. have made record fees recieved and spent sortable, although im not sure how to properly sort the date. Leworthy, first table July 1985 #200k, second table missing, should be between Slatter and Houghton if this is correct. Or perhaps the December 1985 date is incorrect in the second table... Date was wrong in first table, corrected. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:01, 19 January 2011 (UTC) Have made the suggested changes apart from the two sortable issues (is actually three as the league cup column doesnt sort either) as i will try and fix these later. Also im not sure what you mean from your first sentance. I had never looked at the Ipswich article until you pointed it out. Eddie6705 (talk) 13:52, 20 January 2011 (UTC) I meant nothing to worry about, just that this list appeared to be heavily based on the first one of its type to become featured, namely the Ipswich one, which I helped get there. Nothing more! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:19, 20 January 2011 (UTC) I have tried a few things with the tables but can't the three trouble columns to sort properly. It must be something to do with the columns having either mostly single digits then one or two double digit values, or mostly double digit values and one three digit value. Do you know anyone who could help fix them, my table knowledge is fairly poor. Eddie6705 (talk) 23:19, 20 January 2011 (UTC) Tables now sort. Eddie6705 (talk) 19:35, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support lots of feedback, good reaction from the nominator in dealing with it all, no major flaws. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Struway2 (talk) 22:45, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments Firstly, sorry I didn't get to the peer review. When I used to review regularly here I frequently used to suggest that people got their lists peer-reviewed first, rather than bringing them here nowhere near ready expecting FLC to be a glorified peer review, so it's not really very impressive me failing to get to yours when it was open for ages. So some of this will be nit-picking PR-ish, for which again I apologise. Struway2 (talk) 11:48, 21 January 2011 (UTC) Lead. Might read better as "first winner of a major trophy ...". The fact needs citing, and ideally, them having won something major needs mentioning before the fact depending on it. Can't find a ref for it so i have reworded and moved the major trophy mention higher up. Honours and achievements. Remove sponsored name from image caption Done. Don't like them winning "over York City"; could turn it round to make it simply "when they beat York City 3-1 in the Conf..." Reworded. Could mention best top-flight finish in the prose; staying up is almost as much of an achievement as getting up :-) Very true, have added. Not sure you need two consecutive headings both saying (The) Football League Done. If it was me, I'd use the layout as at the Gillingham list i.e using (level x), which can be linked to English football league system, to show that Third Division and Division Two are the same thing Added levels. Be consistent with your formatting: in the Football League section, you have a colon between Division and Champions, where in the Southern League, you have it between Champions and years Fixed. FA Cup season should be 1963–64, not 1963–1964, and link to that season's FA Cup article, not the generic ... in English football Changed both. Player records. Table sorting. You need to use the {{sort}} template to force the sorting order. What doesn't help, probably, is that you were copying the Gillingham list which also doesn't sort properly. Have a look at the code at Ipswich or Birmingham, both work, but they do it differently (at Birmingham, every entry uses the sort template, at Ipswich, only those entries that actually need the extra formatting have it). If you still can't sort it out yourself, I'll do it. I have added the sort template in both tables but the three problem columns still aren't sorting properly. I'd put notes a-c as explanatory notes below the table, rather than in a Notes section miles away Moved. Top goalscorers. Do something with the column widths so that the Total column, which logically should be at least as wide as the others if not wider, isn't all squashed up. Done. Contents of footnote D would be more helpfully placed in with the other explanatory notes above the table. The word "appearances" above that table is missing its initial "a" Added the a and Moved the footnote to under the table. Magilton image caption isn't a complete sentence so shouldn't have a full stop Removed. Transfer fees. MOS:FLAG#Accompany flags with country names says we can't stick flags next to player's names without the name of the country as well. Either add a column for the flag/country name or lose the flags. Removed flags. If you're keeping the flag/countries, be careful what you're choosing. Flags should reflect the player's sporting nationality, so e.g. the Scottish flag is totally wrong for Ray Houghton, a Ireland international. And be historically accurate, e.g the modern Indian flag is inappropriate for Bud Houghton, who was born in pre-independent India to an Anglo-Indian family who came to the UK as soon as India gained independence; if he's anything, he's British. N/A. Record transfer fees paid. Left-align player and club columns as per other tables. To sort the dates, use the {{dts}} template: format each date like {{dts|format=dmy|1998|July|}}. Works with full dates or parts thereof. Done. Progressive transfer fees paid. I might right-align the fees column The article for your redlinked Mick Bullock is at Mickey Bullock; there's a redirect from the other spelling of Mick(e)y but if he was known as Mick when he was with your lot, suggest you create another redirect at that name Done. Saunders image caption: hyphenate "first million-pound signing" Done. Managerial records. Link caretaker manager Done. Club records. If you're having full stops at the end of each entry, check that you have them at the end of every entry Done. In the Honours bit, you used the format Second Division for "old" Div 2, and Division Two for "new", yet in this section you're using Division Two for both without distinction. The reader would think that Most FL goals and Fewest FL goals records were set at the same level, and they weren't. What I did was used the Second Division format throughout, and put (level 3) in brackets where 2nd Div didn't actually mean 2nd tier. Done. Points. Clicking on notes G and H doesn't do anything. Again, I'd include the content of the notes in the section they apply to. Moved. References. #5 and others. <code>|work=Football Club History Database |publisher=Richard Rundle</code> :'''Done'''. * #6. Should be <code>|work=The Guardian</code> or <code>|newspaper=The Guardian</code>, not <code>|publisher=Guardian</code>. Similarly #46 Oxford Mail. See [[Template:Cite news#Essential parameters]] :'''Done'''. * #7. <code>|work=Carling Cup official website |publisher=Coors Brewers</code> Done. #37. Is there nothing better than RageOnline for Mr Constable's recent stats? Not that i am aware of. Soccerbase doesn't include all of his appearances. Progressive transfer fees paid. I might right-align the fees column. Left this comment open, as I wasn't sure if you hadn't seen it or just chosen not to do it. Also, whether you change the alignment or not, suggest moving note B to above the table as an explanation. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:58, 23 January 2011 (UTC) Ahh i must have missed that somehow! I have aligned the column (also in Progressive transfer fees recieved) and moved the note. Eddie6705 (talk) 21:30, 23 January 2011 (UTC) I have made the above changes, and i will add the country name and check flags for the transfer fee tables later today. I have added the sort temp into the two tables, but the columns still don't sort properly. Would you be able to have a look? And don't worry about missing the peer review, its bound to happen where the timing is unfortunate for some people. Eddie6705 (talk) 15:47, 22 January 2011 (UTC) Now removed flags. Eddie6705 (talk) 18:25, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Meets FL criteria, and echo what TRM says above about the nominator. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:52, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments – "John Shuker holds the record for the most appearances for the club since the club joined the Football League." Redundant use of "club" here. It would be easy to switch the second usage to "since they joined" or similar. There's a strange mix of italics and non-italics in the citations' page numbers. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC) Have removed the use of club for Shuker and removed italics from the page numbers. Eddie6705 (talk) 19:35, 26 January 2011 (UTC) Sorry that I missed this earlier, but I have one more concern: reference 46 needs a publisher. Also, you might want to double-check the title to see if "Mangers" is a typo. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:04, 29 January 2011 (UTC) Have fixed typo and added publisher. Eddie6705 (talk) 15:23, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support – Meets FL standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:40, 3 February 2011 [11].

---

List of Premiers of the Soviet Union

Nominator(s): --TIAYN (talk) 13:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

This time, can someone actually review the list before it fails? Last time it wasn't promoted because of lack of reviewer interest. --TIAYN (talk) 13:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support - I have no problems with the list. Afro (Talk) 19:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Thanks. --TIAYN (talk) 21:53, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support Would be nice if you move {{Soviet Union sidebar}} to the reference section beside the refs to the right (if this is possible). If not then let it. But I give you a support.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 20:10, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. --TIAYN (talk) 21:53, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Comment perhaps, instead of being rude, you could be pleasant about asking others to review the list. People spend a lot of time here at FLC, and I don't think your tone encourages anyone to come and review this list. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

• Sorry for being impolite, but when my nomination fails because of lack of reviewer interest it is rather enoying. But again sorry, I didn't mean to offend. --TIAYN (talk) 21:53, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
  • I understand how frustrating it can be. Let's hope we can gain sufficient support and interest this time! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:56, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 17:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

;Comments Overall good, just a few oddities: Done A ccording to the MOS, the term "premier" (and other titles) is only capitalized when used uniquely. So "The office of Premier of the Soviet Union..." is correct, while in "Thirteen individuals have been Premier.", "premier" should be uncapitalized. "Soviet Premier" is also okay, as it is a unique title. Done "RSFSR" needs explaining. I have no idea what that is. Done The "RSFSR government" should have government capitalized, as it is a proper noun. Done The sentence "There was no method of automatic succession to the Premier's office." is unreferenced. Done Under Rykov, "would later, in 1930 lose" sounds awkward; either remove "later" or stick a comma after 1930 (later is strictly speaking redundant here). Emdashes should be center-aligned. What does that mean? --TIAYN (talk) 05:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC) Where there are emdashes (—), center them within the cell using align=center | — Arsenikk (talk) 09:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC) Done --TIAYN (talk) 16:13, 12 January 2011 (UTC) Done "Eastern Bloc" is a proper noun and should be capitalized. Similarly, while not directly related to the list, individual government articles are also proper nouns (and thus capitalized). What do you mean? --TIAYN (talk) 05:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC) "Rykov's Government" instead of "Rykov's government", etc. But this is just the link, so it is irrelevant to this review, really. Arsenikk (talk) 09:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC) Done --TIAYN (talk) 16:13, 12 January 2011 (UTC) Done To me it seems redundant with "in the USSR" in "Oversaw the period of de-Stalinization in the USSR." Done The second sentence under Pavlov is very long; could you for instance add a comma before "which attempted". Done File:Tihonov.jpg and File:Valentin Pavlov.JPG are non-free. While it is most probably alright to use it on the article about them, it is not in accordance with our fair use rules to use it in a list of people. Done See also links should only be included if not in the navigational boxes. Done The article should not be in Category:Lists of office-holders by country. It should either be moved one step down, or a category for Soviet office-holders be created. In general the list looks very good. It is also appreciated that you are working on an important field (one of the most important countries to ever have existed) which is generally poorly covered on Wikipedia. Arsenikk (talk) 23:01, 11 January 2011 (UTC) Thank you very much Arsenikk, and thanks for taking your time to actually review this article! :) --TIAYN (talk) 16:17, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support neat and informative list. Arsenikk ^(talk) 17:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. --TIAYN (talk) 20:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Quick comments – Here are a few things I must have missed the first time I reviewed this list.

• Done "Thirteen individuals have been premier. Two of the twelve premiers...". One of these figures can't be right. Upon inspection, I think it's the first one, which appears to be counting Stalin twice.
• Done Vyacheslav Molotov: "the implementation of the first First Five-Year Plan". If there was only one First Five-Year Plan, this is a glaring prose redundancy.
• Done Nikolai Buganin: "accused of being a member of a Anti-Party Group". Change the second "a" to " the", assuming there was one Anti-Party Group, which our article on it indicates. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 17:43, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:40, 3 February 2011 [12].

---

Linkin Park discography

Nominator(s): Neo139 (talk) 01:07, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I don't know what else I can do with it xD I think I meets criteria to be featured. --Neo139 (talk) 01:07, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose Neutral Support - I don't find this list to reach FL criteria. Additionally, you are repeating similar things that were mentioned in the previous FLs. This list still needs a lot of work. I suggest you retract the nomination. CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 01:54, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from >--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 01:54, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

**Firstly, the lead is littered with song titles. Instead, you should list some of the more popular ones and list their accomplishments. Done I changed completely the lead. Deleted the list of song titles. Check it.--Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) The lead is not very-well written and is missing sources. Done. Added sources to the lead--Neo139 (talk) 06:26, 23 December 2010 (UTC) You violate MoS issues quite frequently. Where?--Neo139 (talk) 06:26, 23 December 2010 (UTC) If it was the albums linked on the single tables, I just unlinked them.2--Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) To reduce bulk, we do not include certifications that are not in the table, like most of the ones you entered. This has been told to you in the previous FLs Done--Neo139 (talk) 06:54, 23 December 2010 (UTC) The list of countries in the table should be consistent throughout the article, not changing after every table. Done--Neo139 (talk) 06:26, 23 December 2010 (UTC) The EPs are unsourced. How are we to know they exist if they never charted anywhere? Done--Neo139 (talk) 06:26, 23 December 2010 (UTC) How are the other songs from different albums "as a featured artist"? I don't understand what you mean--Neo139 (talk) 06:26, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Videos that have not charted anywhere need to be referenced. How do we know they exist? Done--Neo139 (talk) 06:26, 23 December 2010 (UTC) You have fixed up some stuff, I still have some concerns. The lead is unimpressive. This needs fixing. YOu have it littered with song titles. Make it read from one sentence to another, like a history book. Look at other fellow FLs to see. Also, you should put a * before every countries certification. Work on this and I will take a look at the references.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 18:18, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Changed lead. Check it^^--Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) I see you have fixed up some things, and it is looking better. The lead is still a big issue. Aside from the aforementioned problems with it, you have quite a few grammar issues. To sample, you refer to the band as "it" this is weird, they should be referred to by name or they, it is an album, song or object. Next, these are the sourcing issues. They are quite frankly missing a lot. Almost every ref has issues, here are a few samples.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 21:14, 23 December 2010 (UTC)ç Changed Its-->Their --Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Ref 1 - Askmen.com is not a reliable source. Done Replaced--Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Ref 2 - is missing a work and/or publisher - Now that I look its unreliable, popstarplus.com Done Replaced--Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Ref 3 - is missing a publisher - Prometheus Global Media Done Added Prometheus Global Media as publisher in all the billboard sources--Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Ref 4 - allmusic is the work, All Media Guide (its owner) is the publisher. allmusic.com does not work here. There are many more, as I said, lots to do. Done Fixed all allmusic sources.--Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Also, I have added publisher and work to all the refs I could found that information.3--Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Getting there. Still to do. The lead is looking much better. You should include info on their US sales and certifications, as well as some of their higher European or Asian certs. Also, it would be beneficial if you included another column for sales in the US (soundScan sales which can be found anywhere). Next, you should align the tables to be the same length. Ref problems still present. To reference the Grammy awards, use this the Grammy official website (rockonthenet isn't reliable). Now for refs. Done I added a bit about US certifications and Europe cert in the lead. I added a column to albums for Sales in the US. Now the tables have the same width (1000). Deleted rockonthenet source and added grammy website. --Neo139 (talk) 06:05, 25 December 2010 (UTC) Ref 1 - Still missing publisher - News Corporation Done --Neo139 (talk) 06:05, 25 December 2010 (UTC) Ref 8 - Missing date - People is the work and Time Warner is the publisher. There still so many refs with issues. Take the tips I gave you and apply them everywhere.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 00:47, 24 December 2010 (UTC) Done Added Time Warner as publisher. Sometimes I'm not sure who is the work and who the publisher :\ --Neo139 (talk) 06:05, 25 December 2010 (UTC) I changed it to neutral for now, as you have definitely improved it a lot. There are still issues, which you will have to fix to earn my complete support.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 07:25, 28 December 2010 (UTC) have been certified as Platinum -> they have been certified at least platinum Done. --Neo139 (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC) Their hit single "In the End" -> This is not neutral Done. Deleted the word hit --Neo139 (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC) Still issues with the refs. REF 1 - The Times is the work, News Corporation is the publisher. Done. The Times was work, and News Corp the publisher. The problem was The times had semicolons --Neo139 (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC) REF 4 - is not properly formatted. Plus, Allmusic is the work and All Media Guide is the publisher. Done. Some as above. Also, changed author= for first= and last= --Neo139 (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC) REF 6 - Billboard doesn't come up as italicized. When you put the work=, you don't have to place italics on each side of the work, it does it automatically. Placing them has the opposite effect. Done Fixed all billboard refs--Neo139 (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC) REF 8 - not properly formatted. Done author-> first= and last= changed --Neo139 (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC) REF 9 - ifpi.org doesn't belong here. Just IFPI like you have Done--Neo139 (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC) REF 11 - not reliable to source this Done. TIAYN fixed it =P --Neo139 (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC) REF 15 - Missing date, author and link MTV and the publisher is MTV Networks. Same with REF 18 Done Added date, link and author. Also removed the link to the next MTV ref to avoid WP:OVERLINK, added publisher to both ref 15 and 18. Also, I not sure if I have to add the MTV Networks publisher to all the MTV references or just the one that are MTV News. (Most MTV Ref are links to videos)--Neo139 (talk) 19:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC) Many more issues continue.

• Oppose per Nathan.
• Support – All issues were fixed. The table is okay now. Novice7 | Talk 04:40, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Novice7

Comments Use of "#" is discouraged. Done--Neo139 (talk) 06:26, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Why are the certifications put in <small> format? Done--Neo139 (talk) 06:54, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Also, the first paragraph is filled with singles and not albums. Done Added content about first album and most notable album in the first paragraph--Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) One of the music videos is unsourced too. Done--Neo139 (talk) 06:54, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Again, "—" denotes releases that did not chart. → What if it was not released in that territory? Done. I will fix the remain issues tomorrow. Its almost 5am here xD--Neo139 (talk) 07:55, 23 December 2010 (UTC) In featured artist table, I'm Serious appearance is unsourced. Done--Neo139 (talk) 19:33, 23 December 2010 (UTC) How much reliable is Lprevolution.org? Not sure. I added three more refs I found just in case.--Neo139 (talk) 19:33, 23 December 2010 (UTC) Some references are missing a Language parameter. These are not much of issues. Done1--Neo139 (talk) 19:33, 23 December 2010 (UTC) The singles still fill up the first paragraph. You might want to arrange them chronologically. Done I removed most singles on the first paragraph, instead, I add more information about charting/sales records.--Neo139 (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) You might want to ask for a copy-edit on the lead. Maybe I'll support then. I just asked for a copy-edit. I hope he will help me soon. --Neo139 (talk) 06:05, 25 December 2010 (UTC) Lead copy-edited4--Neo139 (talk) 05:03, 26 December 2010 (UTC) Okay, now the tables look too wide and out of screen. "The album was (number) best selling album of (year)" – its repetitive. Include that only for important albums. It's good other than this. Changed tables width to 890px. Its currently the minimum number without getting the each Certification in two lines, in studio albums table, with Firefox and font size 16. Also I removed that the first album was the best selling album of 2001, since I already said it was one of the best selling albums of the decade.--Neo139 (talk) 16:54, 26 December 2010 (UTC) I'm sorry, but the tables are still out of screen and too wide. mmmm, What resolution, browser and font size are you using?Neo139 (talk) 07:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC) Okay, it works in HD resolution. But, for lower resolutions, it does not. Try it yourself. I use Firefox and 16 size font. HD, FF, and 16 size is good, but lower resolutions have the problem. Changed it to 820 width. Try it now. Horizontal should bar should disappear. --Neo139 (talk) 19:58, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose: I'm sorry, but I agree per above comments; I would say the same. If every item was done, I'll change my oppose to a support (possibly).-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 10:47, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
• Support now-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 15:35, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

• Neutral - Comments i had have been addressed, i unfortunately don't have the time to read check for any new errors so i cannot support it, but i no longer oppose this article being promoted. Nice work. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 06:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!--Neo139 (talk) 13:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me -

Comments *Oppose - - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - Im not happy with the lead, its choppy, i dont feel that it accurately represents the body of the article. With choppy are you referring to the length or the content of the lead? or something else?--Neo139 (talk) 01:45, 12 January 2011 (UTC) There is something wrong with the "As lead artist" section which i cant quite put my finger on, one issue is the length of the song field, please see Kesha discography for how it should be formatted. Done: copy/pasted the table class of Kesha discography.--Neo139 (talk) 01:45, 12 January 2011 (UTC) References still need work, italics where there should not be italics all over the place. Done: Fixed all the things that should not be in italics (linkinpark.com, australian-charts.com, austriancharts.at, ultraop.be, musicline.de, italiancharts.com, irish-charts.com charts.org.nz chartstats.com , hitparade.ch, mikeshinoda.com). Now only some refs are in italics (allmusic, people, billboard) --Neo139 (talk) 01:45, 12 January 2011 (UTC) Questionable references used throughout. Eg: cyclefly.com and linkinparkru.com and linkin-park.it and mikeshinoda.com. They are blogs and fansites. Not allowed. Done. Content from cyclefly.com, linkinparkru.com and linkin-park.it has been removed. mikeshinoda.com is the official website from Mike Shinoda, guitarist from Linkin Park so its useful as a source for releases.--Neo139 (talk) 23:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC) The references are not formatted correctly and are extremely inconsistent. EG: mtv.com. and MTV. Choose one or the other, further, 99% of the references are in italics this is a MOS violation, remove the italics only Magazines and online newspapers should be in italics. Done. All the italics from websites that are not magazines or online newspapers have been removed. I deleted mtv.com and just left MTV in publisher. --Neo139 (talk) 23:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC) WP:CHARTSCHART acharts is extremely frowned upon for a GA let alone and FL. "Good and Featured class articles should not rely on unlicensed archives as convenience links, and should use official sites and licensed archives" Done. No more acharts charts.--Neo139 (talk) 23:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC) Some references contain accessdates, some don't. All must. Done: four refs without accessdate have been fixed. --Neo139 (talk) 23:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC) Inconsistent work and publisher fields in the references. Done. per above--Neo139 (talk) 23:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC) Infobox field is poor. "Remix/Collaboration albums" doesnt link anywhere in the article. Done. Fixed--Neo139 (talk) 23:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC) Red link of "AUT" is incorrect, there should be no red link as there is an actual page. Done. Fixed--Neo139 (talk) 23:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC) Im sorry but this article needs much much work. I havnt even gone through in detail, this is what ive noticed in a 5 minute glance. Sorry but this needs a peer review not an FL nomination. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 20:39, 26 December 2010 (UTC) I just copyedited the lead; seeing that grammer is not my strong suit, I'd recommend that someone else takes a look at it. --TIAYN (talk) 08:38, 28 December 2010 (UTC) Thanks. It looks better ^^--Neo139 (talk) 19:37, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

• Comments - Don't use the small tags for the headers Peak chart header. Use either JPN or JAP don't use both. Since its an extended discography I would suggest adding style="text-align:center" to the start of the coding for the tables, to remove the excessive use of align="center". Error in Ref 40. Ref 56 and 63 needs a format parameter. Afro (Talk) 21:30, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Done. Small tags removed. JAP-->JPN. Added style="text-align:center" in albums/eps/singles table and removed the excessive use of align="center". Fixed Ref 40. And Ref 56 and 63, I don't know what you mean. If you can explain it I will appreciate it.^^ --Neo139 (talk) 05:49, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

That means that you need to add format= to the refs. ref 56.2 and 63.2 are both pdf, so you should write format=PDF.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 10:42, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Done thanks--Neo139 (talk) 17:33, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

"and was certified Diamond in United States[8][5]" "...number one on the US Billboard 200 and sold over 240,000 in its first week.[22][16]" Refs should be in numerical order. Can better sources not be found for the Soundtracks? example for Dracula 2000 couldn't Play.com or Amazon not be used? Afro (Talk) 18:05, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Done. Ref in numerical order. More sources added to soundtracks.--Neo139 (talk) 19:59, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

The point I was making was that IMDB is generally not deemed reliable due to most of the content being user submitted. Afro (Talk) 03:11, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Its ok. I didn't knew imdb content was user submitted. Anyway, all the soundtracks songs were previously released under albums or singles. Do I deleted the soundtrack section.--Neo139 (talk) 16:35, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Oppose Lead needs to be rewritten, there's a lot of choppy prose ("The band is noted for its blend of rap rock and alternative metal" has nothing to do with sentences before and after it). For some reason, Hybrid Theory is discussed twice: I suggest dealing with the band's releases in a strictly chronological order to eliminate such redundancies. Remove information that is not vital to the LP discography; for example, the band-name change and mentions of RHCP and Green Day. Further, I think their LP Underground series of EPs and deserves a mention in the lead. In the compilation appearances (below), only list those songs which have not appeared in another album before. Finally, per WP:LEAD, information that is sourced in the body of the article needn't be cited with references in the lead (chart positions, certifications etc), so I suggest removing the cites to improve readability. Use one of the existing FLs at WP:DISCOG as a template for the lead.—indopug (talk) 12:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Done: Deleted "The band is noted for its blend of rap rock and alternative metal. Merged Hybrid Theory info. Added some info about LPU EPs. Now only listing songs which have not appeared in other album before in compilation. Deleted ref in the lead that were already sourced in the body. --Neo139 (talk) 07:12, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll revisit in a couple of days (you can ping me if I don't). Meanwhile, per WP:DISCOGSTYLE, the soundtracks and compilations sub-sections should only mention songs that the band hadn't already released before, so entries like "One Step Closer" and "Points of Authority" shouldn't be there.—indopug (talk) 13:20, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Done: deleted soundtracks that the band already released. Thanks

• Comment Have all reviewers been asked to revisit? Dabomb87 (talk) 00:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

No. Should I poke them in their talk? --Neo139 (talk) 02:12, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Done 1, 2, 3, 4 :P --Neo139 (talk) 01:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 22:55, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Oppose Is "full-length" really needed in front of "studio albums"? Done removed full-lenght --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) Image caption in infobox doesn't need a full stop. Done removed . --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) "The band has ... and have ..." mix up of singular/plural in one sentence... Done changed has for have --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) Linkin Park is overlinked in the lead. Done removed second linking --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) Hahn/Farrell and Bennington sentences should be merged to stop it reading so choppy. Done merged --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) "Three of their studio albums..." you should be clear -> "Three of the band's studio albums..." Done changed --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) Link certified appropriately. Done added link to certified to list of music recording certifications --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) "Linkin Park rose..." start a new para with this. Done --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) "Meteora was ..." italics. Done --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) "The band's fourth studio album, A Thousand Suns, was released on September 8, 2010.[16] A Thousand Suns debuted at number one on the US Billboard 200 and sold over 240,000 in its first week.[11][17]" merge these to avoid repeating "A Thousand Suns" so quickly. Done merged --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) This may have been discussed before, but I see no merit at all in including LPU. It's not Linkin Park, it's a fan club. If it was for me, I would delete the whole EP section xD. The the band consider this type of releases official and sells them at the official website, even if they don't compile the tracks. --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) I think we normally say "Download" (or similar) rather than "DI" (at least, I've never seen DI as an abbreviation of download...) Done changed DI for Download --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) How is s15.zetaboards.com a WP:RS? Done removed that source and content that were sourced from there --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) In the EPs table, Ref. should be Ref(s). And in other similar tables. Done changed --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) Note A is not referenced. Done Added ref --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) X-Ecutioners -> The X-Ecutioners. Done --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) DJ Q-bert -> DJ Qbert. Done --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) Grand Wizard -> Grand Wizzard... Done --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) Why does Patton need three refs for ""P5hng Me A*wy""? Done Commented last ref --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) IMDB is not normally considered a WP:RS. Done No more IMDB refs --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) Some ref titles have spaced hyphens, they should be en-dashes per WP:DASH. Done Fixed --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 20:39, 11 January 2011 (UTC) Thanks for all the comments. If you have more, they are welcomed. --Neo139 (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

• Quick comment – Minor point, but a period is needed after the sentence "The band has produced ten number-one singles on the US Alternative Songs chart". Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Done: thanks --Neo139 (talk) 03:18, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

• Comments

Resolved comments from Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:14, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:*The opening sentence should have all numbers written in words. Done--Neo139 (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC) The opening paragraph has songs without quote marks Done--Neo139 (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC) Overlinking in lead – eg rock and Europe in the lead Done rock and Europe unlinked--Neo139 (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC) Try to find some more US sales figures for albums – Yahoo.com can be good I searched all over the Internet and I found the sales but they were in forums because last year lots of SoundScan sales got leaked. I couldn't find reliable sources like yahoo music news or billboard about them.--Neo139 (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC) Amazon should be Amazon.com Done--Neo139 (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC) Music videos table has a cite error Done Someone fixed it already--Neo139 (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC) Adabow (talk · contribs) 23:15, 19 January 2011 (UTC) File:LinkinParkBerlin2010.jpg Looks suspicious. I don't know much about researching copyvio possibilities, so can someone else take a look? (It may be an honest upload, but it doesn't list camera details, which a user upload generally does.) Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:14, 22 January 2011 (UTC) I reverse image search with TinEye and couldn't find any results. So its possible that the image is from the user who upload it.--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC) Why not use separate refs for each song for RIAA and RIANZ certs. RIANZ certs definitely should be, as they are done individually, but lumped into one inline citation That was the way it was before but I was asked to put refs together (because it looked messy). Now it has less usability but looks better when looking at the refs as a whole. --Neo139 (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC) OK, I don't mind the RIAA certs lumped together, but I still think that RIANZ certs should be in separate citations. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:14, 22 January 2011 (UTC) Done. RIANZ certs are now in seperate citations.--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC) Come to think of it, it makes sense for the ARIA certs to be separated as well. Refs should be formatted so that they can be accessed as quickly and easily as possible. Done--Neo139 (talk) 03 35, 2 February 2011 (UTC) Media Sauce Limited has nothing to do with RIANZ, as far as I know In the rianz links at the footer appears "Compiled b Media Sauce Limited"--Neo139 (talk) 03:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC) Allmusic should not be italicised Done--Neo139 (talk) 03:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC) Ireland should come before Italy in the tables, and Italy should link to Federation of the Italian Music Industry Done--Neo139 (talk) 03:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC) You do not always need to give the website. Sources such as ARIA should have the "aria.com.au" removed. Same with iTunes. iTunes should be formatted, '"blahblah". iTunes Store. Apple Inc. Retrieved blahblah.' Done--Neo139 (talk) 03:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC) Adabow (talk · contribs) 22:36, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

• How reliable is mikeshinoda.com?

Mike Shinoda is the dude of Linkin Park.--Neo139 (talk) 03:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Not a good source for certs. Adabow (talk · contribs) 03:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Done. Thats true. I removed it.--Neo139 (talk) 13:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments

• I rewrote the lead (mostly rearranging stuff); let me know if I introduced any inaccuracies/deleted any important information.

Thanks ^^--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Most tables don't have the ""—" denotes releases that did not chart or were not released in that region thing.

Done--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Most of those featured-artist singles seem to be credited to individual members of the band, as opposed to the band as a whole. I'm not sure they need to be listed (this is a discog of the band, not its individual members). Further, are all these singles, as opposed to just album tracks?

Done. Removed all except the ones that were from the hole band and not just one or two members.--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Considering how notable their efforts on the Billboard Alt. songs charts have been, I'm surprised that the chart isn't included in the singles table. Maybe replace the Japan chart (with only two, low-placed entries) with this?

Some months ago US Alt chart was on the article, but was a discussion about this (because of having two US charts). So I got removed, added a new country and talk about Us Alt Chart in the Lead.--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• I see a huge amount of hidden text, which the article size very large, and difficult to work on slower connections. Please remove it.

Done--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• According to the lead, HT was cert, 4x platinum in Europe. Why isn't this in the table, it seems a much bigger deal than the Austrian certs.

I think the same. Some time ago the article had all the certs. That was ok per DISCOG. Then I add a Diamond cert to a FL, and got it reverted. I asked about the revert with no reply. Some weeks later someone changed DISCOGSTLYE (without any discussion) and added that we should only add certs of the countries of the chart table. That was at the same time that I started with this FLC, and users here ask to remove the certs. So I removed. (Didn't had time to discuss in discogstyle talk while running FLC). Now we have less information in favor of looks, but it seems that is what most users want. --Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• I see a number of "Records" and "Recordings" under label; these should be removed.

Done--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Is a separate column required for references? Couldn't you just stick them next to the album/track/EP name? (although this is just a stylistic issue, so it's up to you)

Most article don't use seperate column for refs, but I think it looks better for tables. Its a new trend =P --Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Video albums: since only two albums were certified, I think you can remove that column, and instead add a note below Format for that album—"US certification: platinum". Make the labels as "Warner Bros., Machine Shop".

Done--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• "Certifications for Linkin Park albums in Japon", "Peak chart positions for albums of Linkin Park in [the] United Kingdom". In fact, I suggest rewriting these to "Peak chart positions of Linkin Park albums in the <place>".

Done--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Soundtracks and Compilations: why does one have a release date, but the other not? I think a "Year" column for both should be sufficient. In fact, why not the two small tables? Mention "soundtrack" against those that are, in the Title column. Eg: Queen of the Damned soundtrack. Again, these aren't singles—maybe this table and the feat. artist songs table should go under an "Other appearances" section?—indopug (talk) 15:18, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Done Added year, and now they are under other appearances section--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for all the comments^^--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Support with final comments:

• Not including the US Alt Songs in the charts is RLY dumb. I suggest you restart the discussion about this after this FLC. If the consensus stands to not include these, listing "Runaway" in the table is strange. Instead, remove it and make a note: "Although 'Runaway' was never released as a single, it charted at ## on the US Alt Songs chart."

Done: Added US Alt Chart. Someone and the talk page asked for it, so the result of the future discussion would be to include.--Neo139 (talk) 23:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

• I think you can merge that featured artist song to the main table, I don't think it is a big deal. But do make another note, clearly stating that LP were only featured artist.

Done--Neo139 (talk) 23:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

• Since "New Divide" is in the Singles table, is it necessary to include in the Soundtracks too? Looking at the songs in Other appearances again, I see that most are only by Chester Bennington, not Linkin Park. Remove these?

Done--Neo139 (talk) 23:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

• Why does Italy come before Ireland in all the tables?—indopug (talk) 05:03, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Done lol (alphabet fail xd)--Neo139 (talk) 23:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

• Question Have you asked the user with the odd name to revisit?-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 09:39, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but not since his last revisit. Although the lead has changed in content since his comment, the size is more or less the same and if by choppy he meant the size, I don't know what else I could add that is much important to be in the lead. So I'm not sure if ask for a second revisit or not.--Neo139 (talk) 19:33, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

If I were you, I would ask him one more time. That won't hurt.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 17:03, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Done link--Neo139 (talk) 04:33, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:40, 3 February 2011 [13].

---

List of selected stars for navigation

Nominator(s): Haus^Talk 13:29, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

A previous version of this list received some support as a FLC in May 2008. Some ideas came up during the candidacy and have been implemented. The list has recently been peer-reviewed. Cheers. Haus^Talk 13:29, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Comments: Is there a reason or purpose for the blank row in the large list? Also, the many uses of "Strasbourg Astronomical Data Center (CDS)" in the References section seems redundant--consider using just "CDS" for subsequent uses. Also, I believe "–" is the proper dash for displaying a page range (see Citations section). --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:12, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I think I've addressed your points:

• Changed "—" to "–" for page ranges after double-checking WP:DASH.
• Changed "Strasbourg Astronomical Data Center (CDS)" to CDS 56 times.
• Regarding the blank row , I see two options. Either remove it and disable sorting by declination or leave it as it is. If anyone sees another way around this, I'm all ears. I think it was resolved by adding style="display:none;" to the row's formatting. Haus^Talk 10:44, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Cheers. Haus^Talk 10:34, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for addressing my concerns. --Another Believer _(Talk) 18:30, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:02, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments I think it would be legit to link star here, in the lead. Could also link Polaris in the lead. Almanac caption doesn't need a full stop. I would link magnitude to Magnitude (astronomy) rather than have "(an indication of brightness)". I think it would be acceptable to move Note 1 to the end of the sentence. As long as it's within the same sentence, no problem. "Key to the Table" -> "Key to the table". "The star's magnitude, an indication of its luminosity is then presented" You've explained what magnitude is twice already so I see no need to repeat this. Distance appears to be missing from the key. I would say it was distance in light years from Earth, but I'm not sure. Overuse of referencing, in my opinion. For instance, you use ref 1 six times to reference the information in the first para about star charts. I think it's unnecessary. No need to use spaced en-dashes in ref 2 & 3. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:27, 14 December 2010 (UTC) Thanks for the feedback. I think I've made most of the suggested changes: Star and Polaris are now linked in the lede. Full stop removed in almanac caption. "magnitude (an indication of brightness)" changed to "magnitude" "Note 1" is now at the end of the sentence. "Key to the Table" changed to "Key to the table" "sidereal hour angle. The star's magnitude, an indication of its luminosity is then presented." changed to "sidereal hour angle, followed by the star's magnitude." Changed 6 refs in first para of star charts section to one at end of para. Changed spaced en-dashes in ref 2 & 3 to unspaced "-". Removed distance column from table, its not germane to the subject. ( HausTalk 11:59, 15 December 2010 (UTC) ) Acrux has a more common name (according to the redirect) of Alpha Crucis. Is that true? Gacrux, Denebola and Rigil Kentaurus similar. "four stars of the easily identified constellation" - beginning to read like a HOWTO guide. Not sure how accessible the charts are, a lot of very very small graphics. The following items may need revisiting: Regarding common names: Acrux, Gacrux, Denebola and Rigil Kentaurus are supported by Bowditch and the Almanac. I'm very hesitant to replace these names with WP's article names. No worries, I was just asking because the redirects stood out to me. I'm no expert, so I'll leave it to your discretion. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC) Regarding size of charts and the HOWTO concern, I'm hesitant to start removing big chunks of content without further elaboration. Per the HOWTO issue, just felt like you needed to make the language more encyclopedic rather than instructive. I wasn't looking to remove chunks of content. Chart sizes, well that's a different matter as I'm not sure how they fare in WP:ACCESS terms. I suggest you ask User:RexxS for a second opinion. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC) Thanks again for the feedback. HausTalk 11:50, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

• Support I have a couple of personal outstanding niggles, but nothing so serious as to stop me supporting. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:02, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from RexxS (talk) 21:30, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

;Comments from RexxS: First of all, the four star charts are obviously a labour of love, and contain a lot of information, and you deserve commendation for producing them. When considering how WP:ACCESS impacts images, you have to try to figure out how (1) a visually-impaired viewer would see them; and (2) how a blind viewer, using a screen reader such as JAWS, would hear them. The images contain a lot of text, and the key point is to try to ensure that the text is readable by the visually impaired. Good guidance would be to try to keep the displayed text size above 85% of normal displayed text, as anything less will cause problems for some viewers. Nevertheless, modern browsers can be zoomed to make text more readable, and the four images enlarge well, so this is not a problem with them. For images with so much information, I'd normally suggest forcing a larger size, but the two equatorial maps at 600px wide just fit into an 800x600 screen, which is the minimum resolution recommended at WP:ACCESS#Resolution; similarly the two polar maps at 400px wide are at the limit of the guidance at WP:IMGSIZE for floated images. I think you've achieved as good a balance as possible. A screen reader isn't able to access most of the information these images convey, and sometimes we have to accept that we can't provide an equivalent presentation within the image for screen readers. However, the article itself does not suffer as a result, since the information is actually already present in the large table above, and that is usable by a screen reader (but see the next point). The main table really should have 'scope="col" attributes on the column headers; and it would benefit from having row headers for both accessibility and markup reasons. It's early days for these techniques on Wikipedia, and I wouldn't object to promotion on these grounds alone, but it's still best practice. There's guidance at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (accessibility)/Data tables tutorial. It's a lot to take in, but several editors would be willing to assist if you wanted help in incorporating these. To avoid the nuisance of having the file name read out in a screen reader, every image should have alt text, which a screen reader would hear. The links in the box at the top of this review include a link to altviewer, and you can see that the following images require alt text: File:Nav-icon-sel-mag-1.5.svg - I'd suggest something like alt=magnitude 1.5 File:Nav-icon-sel-mag-1.6.svg File:Nav-icon-tab-mag-2.5.svg File:Nav-icon-tab-mag-2.6.svg File:Nav-icon-untab.svg - I'd suggest something like alt=untabulated File:Bowditch-equatorial-stars-180-360.svg - I'd suggest something like alt=Bowditch equatorial stars, eastern - the alt parameter goes on the first line of the imagemap (see mw:Extension:ImageMap for an example) File:Bowditch-equatorial-stars-0-180.svg File:Navigational-stars-above-30-degrees-north.svg File:Navigational-stars-below-30-degrees-south.svg Summary: Needs alt text; Image size is already optimised; Table would benefit from tweaks. Hope that helps, --RexxS (talk) 16:40, 16 December 2010 (UTC) Thanks RexxS for the very constructive feedback. I think I've addressed most of the suggestions you made, but have a lingering question wrt row headers. scope="col" Added to all column headers of main table. Alt text: according to altviewer, I think I hit all of these. Row-headers: In this diff, I tried using row headers. There were 3 side-effects: the text in the cell was centered and made bold, and the color of the cell was changed. This seems undesirable to me. Am I missing something? If someone could provide a sample edit on one row, I'd be happy to go through and do the remaining rows. Cheers. HausTalk 12:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC) Thanks Haus, I'm happy to support this FLC. Row headers are desirable because they allow a screen reader to navigate in a non-linear way. For example, a reader could navigate down the Magnitude column and hear "Magnitude" "Alpheratz" "2.06", then "Magnitude" "Ankaa" "2.37", etc. (if Common name contained row headers). Without row headers, they may only hear "Magnitude" "2.06", and so on, which is much less useful. However, as you found, wikimedia software marks up all wikitable headers as bold and centred with a darker background. We are accustomed to that for the column headers, but it is not what we are used to when we start using row headers. Although this is only an aesthetic consideration, many editors don't like it. A partial solution is to set the class of the wikitable to "plainrowheaders", which forces row headers to be left-aligned and normal weight (but leaves the darker background to indicate that they are headers). You can see examples of the comparison between row headers and plainrowheaders at Talk:List of signs and symptoms of diving disorders (which is at FLC) as I'm currently searching for consensus on what is best practice to meet the 'visually appeal' FL criterion 5a. I usually arrange tables so that the row headers are placed as the first column to keep the darker background as a kind of border to the rest of the data in a table. As you can see, incorporating row headers (although desirable for accessibility), entails extra markup and sometimes a restructuring of tables. I don't want this to be seen as a hurdle to FLC, so I'm content to support without them; but if you feel able, then it does add value for a small but significant number of viewers. --RexxS (talk) 14:34, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

• Support – The issues I raised have all been addressed. --RexxS (talk) 21:30, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Courcelles 21:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments :This is a list of selected stars, so the obvious question is "selected by whom?" I'm sort of feeling let down by the list not including why these stars are considered the important ones. I shouldn't have to follow a link to realise you're discussing apparent, and not absolute magnitude. (though it is obvious from the description if you're familiar with the concept) Endashes, not hyphens, in page ranges. (ETA: I see you had spaced endashes. The correct fix was to remove the spaces, not go to hyphens) File:Sekstant.jpg needs a source File:Bowditch-equatorial-stars-0-180.svg and the rest. Your retouchings are not under the US Navy's PD license. The exception is File:Navigational-stars-below-30-degrees-south.svg, where your work is more unique. The other three need a plain {{PD-USGov}} to remove the language about "I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following license:". A separate tag for your modifications should then be added, a PD one, though, as you have not created a separate copyright from the Navy in these three. The fourth one needs a naval tag and then a tag of your choice, as the derivative work is enough to create a distinct copyright. Courcelles 05:59, 14 January 2011 (UTC) [14] Dabomb87 (talk) 22:28, 19 January 2011 (UTC) Thanks for the input, and sorry for my delay in response. As we discussed elsewhere, I had scheduling issues. With the exception of the image tags, on which I have a question, I think I've addressed the issues you brought up: Who selects them & why: added some info and one ref. (diff) Endashes: fixed. (diff) Apparent magnitude: I emphasized this at the first mention, in the table key, and the table header. I think that should cover it? (diff) File:Sekstant.jpg: replaced with File:DN-SD-03-08769.JPEG which is thoroughly sourced & PD. (diff) I'm still trying to absorb the issue(s) with the image tags. All 4 went through the same process: they started out as public domain bitmaps in a book, and I created SVG versions. On the two "round" ones, I chopped off the outer portion to make the inner portion easier to read. I guess my initial response is that you're right that the tags should be changed, but shouldn't they all be consistent? Cheers. HausTalk 23:36, 21 January 2011 (UTC) Did you take File:Navigational-stars-above-30-degrees-north.svg and transform it into File:Navigational-stars-below-30-degrees-south.svg, or is the source of File:Navigational-stars-below-30-degrees-south.svg perhaps mistyped? If it's just a typo, you're right, they all do need to be consistent, but as tagged, the above became the below image by your work alone, which would create a new copyright. (If there is a separate starting point for the below image, it's just like the others, a little cropping doesn't create a separate copyright.) Courcelles 23:42, 21 January 2011 (UTC) Er, yes and no. I started with File:Navigational-stars-above-30-degrees-north.svg, moved all the "data" off the drawing, pasted in the bitmap, and then proceeded as before. I think I see your point now, and will change all four to {{PD-USGov}}. Cheers. HausTalk 23:48, 21 January 2011 (UTC) All 4 star charts are now {{PD-USGov}} (link). Cheers. HausTalk 23:57, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support Courcelles 21:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

• Question could a Google Sky image be used in this article? A casual reader will have a really hard time reading any of the maps provided here, but if something more realistic is used, like a view from GS, it would be much more easier. Nergaal (talk) 09:30, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
  • If possible I think this is a really nice idea... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:58, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
    • Google Sky is out, as they compile data from NASA (which is free) and the ESA (which can only be used under fair-use) without differentiating what comes from where. You won't be able to justify anything fair-use here, since the free images are adequate. (They are also actual navigational charts, which is sort of the point...) Courcelles 02:47, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
      • Static photographs of these areas would be much, much more cluttered and hard to make any sense of than the charts. They would show 6,000-ish bodies instead of 58-ish. On the other hand, I suggested long ago adding external links for individual stars to an interactive system like wikisky or google sky so that the reader could explore the area of a star. I never followed up on this because I was sure it would cause a WP:NOTDIRWP:ELPOINTS ruckus. If consensus could be attained here to add a column for google sky links, I'd enthusiastically add it. Cheers. Haus^Talk 14:45, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
      • Item #3 of WP:ELYES might support adding links to google sky entries for each star. Cheers. Haus^Talk 01:12, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
        • Has this concern been addressed? Dabomb87 (talk) 23:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
          • Reminder on this thread left on 1 Feb. Haus^Talk 04:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support -- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 19:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.