Talk:Kurt Cobain

Untitled

This article is ridiculously long and full of trivial crap like what his first concert was, the fact he "travelled to Olympia to go to concerts", 5 paragraphs about his "artistic intentions" (which all reads like opinion and POV BS, even with the Grohl and Love quotes). Can someone make this article more encyclopedic and less fanboy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.105.109 (talk) 02:39, 17 December 2010 (UTC) It should definitley be trimmed down a bit, and there should definitley be more about his life before the band and childhood. It really helps to illustrate the influence for all of his music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zman19 (talk • contribs) 03:45, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain is not homosexual!

Its true that he said he was bisexual until he married Courtney Love until 1992 but he was never homosexual.When he was in High School a friend he met was homosexual he didnt know at first but he noticed that other students looked at him wierd in the hallways since he started hanging out with his new friend and he watch him get picked on a lot he would protect him. One night his friend made a move on him and he was shocked and pushed him away.The days afterwards he wouldn't talk to him after that since it was just plain akward. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.243.116.189 (talk) 23:42, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Sure, Kurt "wasn't" homosexual... so what? 190.47.101.146 (talk) 19:44, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Nobody said he was homosexual. And he never said he actually was bisexual, he said he could be bisexual. Asarelah (talk) 01:40, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

You're right, he wasn't homosexual, he was bisexual - MrGuy

You don't know that he was bisexual. He contradicted himself and lied a lot. He said that he COULD be bisexual, and liked to lead people on. He french kissed Chris on stage to annoy homophobes and he definitely liked the idea of gayness or bisexuality as some kind of form of rebellion. But you can't say that "he was bisexual" because there is no proof of that. Wikipedia should just post his quotes and let the reader decide for themselves.

That Cobain "liked the idea of gayness or bisexuality as some kind of form of rebellion" may be true but understates the point, I think. He wasn't just taking a "hip" stance; he was actively on the side of gays, standing up against prejudice. Anyone who hates gays should hate him, too, which I think was his larger point. --CAVincent (talk) 15:19, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Cobain said that he "began to become really proud of being gay even though he wasn't"; I'm not 100% on when this was but I'm sure that it was around about the time he was following The Melvins and in the very early days of Nirvana --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 13:26, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

This is all kind of sad. I guess I thought Nirvana fans would by and large be more open minded here and it wouldn't be so contested that Kurt Cobain once said, "If not for Courtney, I probably would've carried on with a bisexual lifestyle." While Kurt never apparently uttered the exact words "I am bisexual," that statement right there implies that he had indeed carried on a bisexual lifestyle before meeting Courtney Love. And it should be noted that this comment was not at random; it was a comment made to The Advocate, the nation's biggest gay and lesbian magazine, for the cover story on Kurt Cobain. He also did utter the words that he was "gay in spirit." Further, in 1992 he provided support for the "No on 9" campaign for the anti-gay ballot in Oregon called Measure 9. It's interesting that despite all of this, there is no mention of his bisexuality -- or at least his allegiance to the LGBT community -- in this article. I hadn't realized some people were so homophobic. http://pioneergrrrl.tripod.com/advocateinterview.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.190.75.30 (talk) 07:23, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Actually, in the official come as your are biography, he claims he was misquoted and that he wasn't actually bi. Not that it matters. Asarelah (talk) 17:15, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Pictures

the ones here are terrible. --69.125.2.186 (talk) 22:51, 22 October 2009 (UTC) I agree, the one that is currently there is horrible, They had a better one but now its been replaced by the crappy one. Megabar09 (talk) 00:09, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

We have no choice due to copyright violations. Sir Richardson (talk) 13:00, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

So were did that one come from? I was wondering, if someone had a Nirvana album or poster, and if their was as picture of Kurt on it, would there be any copy right if they took a picture of it with a camera and then uploaded it on here?. UnivoxDude15 (talk) 22:44, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I believe that such a picture would be considered a derivative work, but that original copyright holder would still retain their rights to the original image. So to use it here, you'd now need the permission of both, which would not improve on the situation of just needing the original person's permission. Tarc (talk) 23:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Genre

Im adding Punk Rock to his Genre's since he was in a Punk band called Fecal Matter and was a Punk. 81.96.254.143 (talk) 21:32, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. While Nirvana should be regarded as a grunge band, Cobain himself was a punk musician, before the grunge genre was specifically defined. Punk should be included in the genre's of his infobox, in the same way hardcore punk is included in Dave Grohl's for his work in Scream. Sir Richardson (talk) 21:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

It's hard to define some of these definitions, sub genres of rock and music. Metal rock glam rock could be hair metal. In Cobain's case both grunge & punk rock fits, but Nirvana itself is grunge!

No not Nirvana itself but who removed it? sombody removed Punk from this section? he was in the Punk Rock band Fecal Matter and they were Punk Rock. Megabar09 (talk) 14:19, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, somebody removed punk rock! Anyway, I'm pretty sure that Nirvana had some hardcore punk songs. And Kurt Cobain is considered punk my the punk "community". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.71.91.63 (talk) 19:34, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

If songs like Territorial Pissings aren't punk songs then what is? Cobain himself even called his second album "Punk rock gold". I forgot where I read or heard that quote, but I'm sure you can find it if you look. If not ask me and I'll find it for you. My email is fukshtpss@gmail.com 77.97.78.44 (talk) 00:56, 20 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.78.44 (talk) 00:30, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

"There is no reliable source categorically considering Kurt Cobain with Nirvana to be a punk rock band"..What? But Cobain wasn't only in Nirvana. This is the Kurt Cobain article, not the Nirvana one. I'm adding punk rock back. And I'm going to search for a source too.--Revilal90 (talk) 01:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

In an interview, Kurt said they were more of a "Sub-Pop sound". Wath this video. http://www.youtube.com/embed/7WRjnZwL658 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Childress293133

• I don't think that would qualify as a reliable source though. A genre being red-linked is always a good clue that it isn't a real one too. --John (talk) 23:30, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Religion

Kurt Cobain wanted to convert to Catholicism (a process that involves commitment and time. Time was something he had little of while in Nirvana) according to his wife, Courtney Love, who publicly stated that he wanted to become Catholic before reading his suicide note. I did not see any mention of this in this article, though it does mention many other religious interests that I had never observed said of Kurt while he was alive. Courtney was Buddhist. I also cannot find a reference siting her pre-suicide note ramble. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.237.102.30 (talk) 10:08, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Source? I think he just had some ideas from Buddhism, but I am not sure if he is. 189.89.156.99 (talk) 17:30, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

If you read his biography it says that he was not catholic, he went to church for a little while he was sleeping at the hospital and was even about to be confermed, he said it was bullshit and moved onto the next religon. Kurt tried many religons but he decided to be a buddhist towards the end of his life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.166.56 (talk) 21:31, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

There are a few Kurt Cobain biographies; but from what I understand he never really had any religion, since they involved too much time and effort for him. He liked the idea of Buddhism but never really studied any of it's teachings in depth. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 10:11, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Alias

Kurdt Cobain? Surely that is a mistake right?96.246.52.215 (talk) 14:35, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

No he called himself that sometimes :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.34.180 (talk) 16:40, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

wasn't it Kurdt Kobain? --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 13:12, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I've seen it with the two K's. It is even printed like that on the back of at least one album. Although he may have used Kurdt Cobain as well. 77.97.78.44 (talk) 00:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.78.44 (talk) 00:44, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

He used the Kurdt Cobain version on the Bleach album. I think Chad Channing and Krist Novoselic may have done a different spelling of their names too. (Childress293133 (talk) 00:02, 15 February 2011 (UTC))

On Kurt and Courtney, they went to a club or bar and found a place that he signed. It said Curt Cobain, but I'm not 100% sure that it WAS him. (Childress293133 (talk) 00:02, 15 February 2011 (UTC))

Painter listed under occupation?

He did the artwork for the Incesticide cover, and he wanted to be a painter. According to Charles R. Cross, he always thought he'd be a famous painter.

Should we add painter or artist or something along those lines to his occupations? ISeriouslyNeedALife (talk) 20:41, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

No. --CAVincent (talk) 05:40, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

There should be more of a reasoning against this than just "No". While he never for example had his paintings displayed in an art gallery, he is by any standard considered to have been a visual artist by many reliable sources. His role in Nirvana's music videos and album artwork can be held accountable for this. Personally, I don't think it would be particularly objectionable for "artist" to be listed as an occupation in the article's infobox. Sir Richardson (talk) 17:07, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that it should be listed as one of his occupations, If you did that you would probably need to put "heroin" in there also :) But joking aside, I think that it was more of a passtime for Cobain than an actual occupation; I think, he was constantly looking for ways in which he could fully express himself and used painting and sculpture as a way to acheive this in ways in which music couldn't. That's just my thoughts. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 13:51, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, your occupation is your career, and given that I doubt he even earned money from any painting then I don't think it counts as an occupation. Real N0 1 (talk) 16:49, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

You could say painting was more of a vocation for him than an occupation. It was, without a doubt, Important to him and it wasn't done purely for money. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 09:35, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Punk rock

I don't see why punk rock keeps getting taken off of his genres. Can someone explain their side of this? ISeriouslyNeedALife (talk) 21:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

• Your statement here is literally the very first time I have ever heard Cobain described as punk rock. His genre was grunge. If you can find a source to support this, then that would prevent it from being removed. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 05:52, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
• He definately is a punk rock because in interviews considers him self to be a punk rocker and in the allmusic.com profile it says nirvana popularized punk, post-punk, and indie rock. plus he always admired punk in his quotes http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:hifexqr5ld6e174.54.122.131 15 August 2010
• He was 100% punk rock in philosophy if not music. His motto was, at least at one point; "Punk rock is freedom" --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 13:38, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
• kurt cobain said himself that it was punk rock, the image of true punk rock has just been distorted so much that people think its grunge! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.238.187.60 (talk) 02:18, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

> honestly his genre was considered grundge even though he didnt like to be labeled, grundge was best known for a sad kinda dark vibe filled with lyrics unknown to some eyes, he wasnt punk rock at all he just came from it and brought a new genre of music to the world - Gio Jacobs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.91.251.160 (talk) 19:09, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the above; that he was deffinatly grunge and the inclusion of punk rock into his genres is probably not appropriate, however, I do think that it should get a mention somewhere in the article that he was heavily influenced by punk rock, so that stuff should stay. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 13:11, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Grunge was a term the media came up with, punk rock absolutely influenced Nirvana.--72.24.207.77 (talk) 08:25, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

>I agree Punk Rock should definitely be included. Even if you don't think any Nirvana songs are close to being Punk, Fecal Matter was Punk so it should be mentioned. Nirvana wasn't the only thing Kurt was ever a part of. Kurt himself constantly mentioned Punk in interviews and refereed to his own music as Punk. He accepted the term Grunge but rarley ever refereed to himself as such. Borinquen252 (talk) 22:21, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Anyone who thinks that Nirvana wasn't a PUNK BAND needs to watch the documentary called "1991: The Year Punk Broke". Nirvana is one of the bands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991:_The_Year_Punk_Broke — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.61.91.74 (talk) 03:34, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

As already mentioned this is a Kurt Cobain page not a Nirvana page and Kurt was in a Punk band Called Fecal Matter prior to Nirvana Skit85 (talk) 12:55, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Influences

Kurt Cobain was hugely influenced by The Beatles especially John Lennon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jongudni (talk • contribs) 20:43, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain also played the drums. It may not say that on this page but it is a fact that he played the drums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.208.188 (talk) 07:14, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Wasn't the drums his prefered instrument originally (i.e. When he was a kid) before he had a guitar? I may be wrong I'm just asking; I'm sure I read that somewhere before --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 13:36, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

He also played bass on the Sappy-song, as well on many of his early demos. bit.ly/bs3OgX --User:Marnches 22:38, 18 November 2010.

Book Kurt Cobain by Christopher Sandford states that:

the book "Kurt Cobain" by Christopher Sandford states that Kurt was born at Grays Harbor Community hospital in Hoquiam Washington not Aberdeen. 108.1.241.94 (talk) 05:10, 20 July 2010 (UTC)AJK

It also says that he was full blooded irish on his father's side108.1.241.94 (talk) 05:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

is noone going to take these into consideration at all? 108.1.241.94 (talk) 03:51, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

If one source says one thing and all the rest say another, we generally go with the "many" side. Tarc (talk) 11:57, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

From what little i've read of this book it shouldn't be considered a reliable source Jack Endino a producer of Nirvana's early work has called it "pure fiction". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.134.73.17 (talk) 03:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

the book is not fiction its biography and the author did all his own research and interviewed members of the cobain family —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.1.241.94 (talk) 06:02, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

It's officialy a biography, but many books about Cobain's life have been so full of discrepancies that they are quite unreliable. Cobain himself used to tell a lot of lies to make his life seem either more exciting or more challenging (see the "guns in the river" story) he even said that himself. and whats to say people close to him knew the truth or didn't gloss over a lot of the facts to make it seem like Cobain was more presentable, he was a Heroin addict after all.--Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 09:46, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

fuck the beatles!! he was actually more influenced by punk rock bands in his time and the ones he would talk to like REM and The Melvins

wrong section? lol plus saying "fuck the beatles" then going on to praise any kind of rock band is a bit of an oxymoron; most of the newer guitar bands (ie 80s-2000s) can be traced back to influence by the Beatles. Listen to "Helter Skelter" you'll get the idea. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 09:46, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

There IS no Grays Harbor Community Hospital in Hoquiam, Washington: The hospital of that name is (only) in Aberdeen, Washington: http://www.ghchwa.org/index.php?page=about-us (See also http://www.ghchwa.org/index.php?page=contact-us). That is always where it has been (and btw, "Community" is a non-optional part of its name; it is not "Grays Harbor Hospital"). ThunkingOutLoud (talk) 05:14, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Jayeffnz, 13 August 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} In the section titled 'Nirvana', a sentence in the second-last paragraph needs editing to correct a grammar issue. Sentence reads: He began to harbour resentments for people claiming to be fans of the band, yet refused to acknowledge, or misinterpreted, the band's social and political views. Correction should be: He began to harbour resentments for people claiming to be fans of the band yet refusing to acknowledge, or misinterpreting, the band's social and political views. or: He began to harbour resentments for people who claimed to be fans of the band yet refused to acknowledge, or misinterpreted, the band's social and political views.

Jayeffnz (talk) 01:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

 Done Thanks, Stickee (talk) 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain was also punk rock, STOP REMOVING IT

Seriously, what is up? Stop removing the punk rock tag from his genre section. He considered himself as punk rock too, even. --User:Marnches 19. November, 2010. —Preceding undated comment added 11:15, 19 November 2010 (UTC).

Ancestry

Cobain isn't Scottish, Irish or German, it's ENGLISH Anglo-saxon originating from Kent, is it not cool enough to be mainly or English descent, its obvious Kurt was, millions of Americans with English ancestry deny it, btw im not being Anti-American (I love americans their our closets allies, along with the rest of the union countries), I'm prmoting Americans point of view of the possibility of being of English descent, and the ones that do they should respect it and not override it, peace...Davido488 (talk) 17:01, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

The name comes from a combination of the Old Norse Kobbi meaning "large" and the Gaelic Bain meaning "a fair person" --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 13:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

No its an old English name for someone who lived in Cobham, surrey, kent thankyou, it's English not Scottish references http://cobainsurname.com/history/family_crest_name_history.html, http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=cobain+.86.186.3.245 (talk) 00:26, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

While I tend to take these surname/family crest websites with a pinch of salt (most make no mention of my last name, Connelly, originating from O'Connell and gives my family a crest, which I know to be made up as I have seen 3 or 4 family crests for my name from these sites.) I am enclined to believe you. I am not 100% sure about it but I had just always thought the name came from "Kobbi" and "Bain". I managed to find a reference for this after a bit of searching. http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Cobain, Your explanation sounds to be a bit more plausable though. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 10:45, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I have an edit request too. It says, "Dave Grohl stated Cobain believed "Music comes first, lyrics come second"". I'm not even sure that is a Grohl quote. It's Kurt himself who said that, and that isn't even the exact quote. Nirvana were asked in an interview which comes first, music or lyrics, and COBAIN said, "Music is number 1" and held up one finger. I even have the interview on my computer. 77.97.78.44 (talk) 00:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.78.44 (talk) 00:42, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Can you please provide the citation? it would be helpful.

Category:People who attempted suicide

I recently saw that the category "People Who Attempted Suicide" was removed from Kurt's categories. I believe it would make sense to keep it, considering he had attempted (without success) suicide in the past, such as in Rome with the pills and such. Does anyone agree? ISeriouslyNeedALife (talk) 02:56, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I saw that too and thought of the Rome incident, yea. The descriptino at the top of the cat does say "This category is for people (living or dead) who attempted suicide but did not succeed for whatever reasons. For those who succeeded, see Category:Suicides" so it seems it was meant as an either/or categorization. Tarc (talk) 03:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

People frequently remove categories for no valid reason. The Rome incident was a suicide attempt according to Love and Cross. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.134.71.19 (talk) 23:45, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I didn't know the guy; but I would say that in his state (i.e. drugged up to the eyeballs and slightly insane) he would have been looking for some attention in Rome. Also, I wouldn't really take Cross' opinion into account when discussing Cobain; He's only a biographer and never spoke to Cobain face-to-face. Likewise, my opinion I suppose. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 09:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone have his journal? I read it and I'm pretty sure he talked about a silly failed attempt in that, where he lays on some train tracks and waits for a train, but it never comes so he gives up. I am pretty sure I read that in his journals. Either way though I prefer the article not to dwell TOO much on the suicide thing, but whatever. 77.97.78.44 (talk) 00:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.78.44 (talk) 00:52, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

I did buy a copy of his journals; but inside it says something like "Don't read this and judge me when I'm gone" so I've never read them --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 09:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Nevada

why their no mention of his work with the alternatave band nevada  ?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brendan Whittington-Jones (talk • contribs) 12:34, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, is it trivial? --CrohnieGal^Talk 13:03, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Homophobic bullies?

This article states that "homophobic" kids bullied him at school because he hung out with a gay student. I don't doubt that he was bullied, and I don't doubt the reasons, but it is very speculative to call the students homophobic. Calling them homophobic assumes that we have in depth knowledge and understanding of the psychology and/or mental processes/ and world views of these students. We don't even know their names. I am not saying they (the students who bullied him) were or were not homophobic, but it is not Wikipedia's job to label people homophobic. That is all. 128.223.56.88 (talk) 18:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Gay bashing is a pretty clear indication of homophobia. I would say by definition bullies who specifically target gay people would be properly termed "homophobic bullies." This kind of argument is often made by people who are against gay rights because they don't like being called homophobic. They insist that they are not afraid of gay people and beat them up. Rifter0x0000 (talk) 05:59, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Rolling Stone link update

Hi, I was looking at the links in the Notes section and found an updated location for a reference that was marked as a dead link. As I've never edited a Wikipedia page, I decided I probably shouldn't make my first edit under the influence of Ambien.  ;)

So in case someone wants to fix it...

Note #101
rollingstone.com, "Cobain Unseen": Rare Photos, Artwork and Journal Entries
Old link: http://www.rollingstone.com/photos/gallery/23454963/cobain_unseen_rare_photos_artw/photo/17
New link: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/photos/8549/48642 Pisceschickus (talk) 10:14, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011

Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:

• http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=Blhud6j6h71q0

--CactusBot (talk) 10:59, 2 January 2011 (UTC)  Done--Cactus26 (talk) 11:06, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Barbieskull, 22 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Wendy Fradenburg is also of Dutch descent. She is from the Fradenburg/Vredenburg family which originated in Utrecht Holland, from Van Vredenburch (from what I understand means "from Peace Castle"), Dutch nobility. Barbieskull (talk) 03:52, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Skier Dude (talk) 05:54, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Loltrolling, 9 March 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Kurt Cobain was a relatively unknown scat porn adult film star before becoming a celebrity rock star. Loltrolling (talk) 01:30, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —GƒoleyFour— 02:04, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Nirvana creation date

In the article for Nirvana it says the band was created in 1987, but on the page for Kurt Cobain it says the band was created in 1985.— Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

It may just be the difference in the date they began writing material as Nirvana and the day they first performed as Nirvana; in which case there is an argument to say that both dates are correct. Personally, I would go for the date they started writing material as Nirvana, if this is the case. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 12:32, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Once again, punk rock edit-warring

This pointless bickering about whether Nirvana is punk or not feels a lot like fanboys arguing how hairy hobbit toes get -- obviously they're very passionate about it but not very interesting for the rest of us. Just out of curiosity I decided how quickly I could find a legitimate news source that calls Nirvana a punk band. It took 00.4 seconds. Time Magazine (NOT YOUR PARENTS' PUNK By CHRISTOPHER JOHN FARLEY Monday, Oct. 16, 1995) which reads:

"Green Day is indisputably the most popular punk band since the demise of Nirvana ..." http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,983584,00.html

So here is a mainstream news source calling Nirvana, Hole and all the other Grunge bands of Seattle punk. And really, I didn't realize the guidelines of what made a band punk were so dogmatic and rigid! So what if Fecal Matter was only around for 3 months? it was still a band and still played punk music -- the life span of most punk bands is shorter than that, but I'm not a self-proclaimed fanboy rock journalist so what do I know ... meh. Himeyuri (talk) 14:40, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Can we get some definitive input and end this stupid debate once and for all? IMO, being in a "punk" band with a few friends for a few months does not qualify Cobain's genre to have "punk rock" listed there as well. This is a perennial thing that gets reverted, here and at other related articles, but there's a very persistent new editor who has been at it for weeks, genre-warring on this and many other pages judging by the edit history. Tarc (talk) 12:59, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

The fact that the band themselves called themselves a Punk Rock band is enough for them to be listed as Punk rock here. Punk Rock is what they considered themselves. Grunge and Alternative Rock is what the media lablled them. All three probably are correct, but I would certainly go with Punk Rock, as that is what Kurt Cobain actually said on many recorded occasions as what type of music Nirvana actually were.mjgm84 (talk)

I have plenty of sources where Kurt referred to Nirvana as an alternative rock band. Grunge was the genre label he rejected. Regardless, what an artist labels their music as has no bearing on how they are actually labeled. WesleyDodds (talk) 01:19, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Tarc, I totally agree with you. The punk rock genre does not belong and should be stopped already. I too think it's been going on too long. Did you notify the editor of this discussion? If not, please do so they can respond. If it continues I am of the mindset to ask for administrator help to make it stop. Enough editors have reverted this to make it unacceptable to keep adding it back in. Thanks, --CrohnieGal^Talk 13:10, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain was a punk rocker. He described himself as a punk rocker. And anyway, Grunge wasn't like a genre itself. It was just a style developed in Seattle during the early 90's. Each band had other influences: Alice in Chains was more heavy metal style, Soundgarden was very close to Alternative Rock and Nirvana was close to punk. Nirvana have a lot of obvious punk songs, like Breed and Territorial Pissings. Nirvana was a group made of 3 punk rockers! Krist and Dave were part of punk rock bands too. And the media label is often incorrect. (example: people who think AC/DC is heavy metal or Avril Lavigne as punk..) Also, why isn't Punknews a reliable source? --Revilal90 (talk) 08:04, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Close to punk isn't actually punk. All of this rests on the existence of Fecal Matter, a 3-month old garage band. Tarc (talk) 13:50, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

You people don't think Nirvana is punk because of the "grunge" label. They were a punk rock band, with the Seattle style in their music. --Revilal90 (talk) 17:13, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

No, I think they're not punk because they...aren't; not fooled by any "grunge" tag. Not to toot my own horn much, but I was a DJ in the early 90's, in regular contact with record labels such as Sup Pop as we reported our charts to CMJ and whatnot. I'm pretty comfortable with my own ability to assess and classify music genres; sounding a little like punk and having one's roots in it does not make it so. They evolved past a simple 3-note shtuck. Also, there's 3 different places you've tried to add this tag, and we/you keep munging this all together. We have Kurt Cobain, which is not applicable IMO, but at least its in the realm of possibility via the Fecal Matter connection. We have Nirvana, which is a far stretch. Finally we have Nevermind, which, sorry, is outright laughable. Tarc (talk) 17:30, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

In any event, it doesn't matter what we think or know, or what our backgrounds are. Wikipedia's guideline for inclusion is verifiability, not truth. What matters is what we can find sourcing for. If there's sourcing for "punk rock", provide it. If not, it's inappropriate for inclusion. Doniago (talk) 18:38, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, it's on his death certificate listed under what looks like "Kind of Business or Industry."68.7.4.181 (talk) 08:58, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Here's the source for punk rock. http://www.punknews.org/bands/nirvana --Revilal90 (talk) 09:09, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Please stop the edit warring about this. Use this talk page and gain a concensus to add it to the article. The BRD cycle should be followed and we are way past the discuss part of it. I don't think that it is notable or important enough to add to the article so I think it should not be added. Next please, --CrohnieGal^Talk 14:25, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

• Per Tarc and Crohnie, this does not qualify the description to be added. Find some reliable sources (and I don't think punknews.org qualifies), and we can usefully revisit this. --John (talk) 01:38, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Well if your looking for sources, Wikipedia guide lines state that books are prefered as sources rather than websites. I am sure there are loads of books out there that refer to Nirvana and Kurt Cobain as punk rock. Just check out the books Come As You Are or Heavier than Heavan. I'm sure there must be countless surces out there which state Nirvana and Kurt were punk. It is silly to suggest that they are not.mjgm84 (talk) 09:46, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Please read burden. You are the one who says it belongs in the article. As one of the editors here, I have an open mind about this so if you find a reliable source showing that this is important thus notable I'll support the addition to the article. Right now I just don't see it as necessary to comment on per trivia. Sorry, --CrohnieGal^Talk 10:44, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I'd be curious to see where "books are better sources than websites" is from, as I cannot recall seeing that in a guideline. WP:RS itself has nothing of the sort, unless in re-reading it I have missed it. Really, the issue here IMO is people confusing being influenced by punk with being actual punk, and how grunge and alt rock in general evolved from the 70's-80's punk scene. As noted above, there are 3 areas in which this is battle is being waged;

• This.
• The band.
• Albums.

Getting the band and album articles labeled "punk" is just going to lead to a dead-end. They simply weren't, that's all there is to it. I still disagree with the label being placed on Cobain himself, but at least it is plausible, if debatable. Tarc (talk) 13:10, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

You would believe it if you'd watch some Nirvana interviews. You'd see that they actually were punk rock. Also, @John: you "don't think" punknews.org is notable enough? I think it is. And we aren't getting anywhere if we keep dping things just because we think so. The guys from punknews know very much about music, they aren't just some random rockers..--Revilal90 (talk) 19:20, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

The "guys from punknews" are just a bunch of fans, not legitimate journalists, judging by the website. It consists of user-submitted content, which is generally a failure of reliable source guidelines. Your edits history shows a fair bit of genre edit-warring at other articles as well, so it would be a very good idea if you simply knock it off and stop reverting to get your way, especially when MULTIPLE editors have raised objections to your content. Tarc (talk) 19:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, while others have agreed. And also, "judging by the website"...? I could say the same thing about Almusic then! You're against the punk label because the media came up with "grunge", as they needed something new for the society.--213.233.101.253 (talk) 08:50, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

allmusic.com isn't a good source for genres either, e.g. the list Frank Sinatra as "soft rock". Allmusic is a catalog/database website, not an establisher of notability. Tarc (talk) 13:44, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Punknews IS a reliable source. They're not "just a bunch of fans", I don't know why you're saying that.--Revilal90 (talk) 13:20, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

See this; http://www.punknews.org/submit ? That means that any yahoo can submit articles to the website, which is what we call WP:USERGENERATED content. Tarc (talk) 13:44, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

The main articles are written by the administrators. And notice that you need to have a source, just like here on wikipedia.--Revilal90 (talk) 21:20, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, its really little more than a punk-oriented blog. If your sole argument is hanging by a single, questionable source, then I really don't see much else to do here. Tarc (talk) 15:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but I believe they had a heavy punk sound. Some of their songs were outright punk, like Territorial Pissings, a great example. And Cobain said Nirvana was a punk band. I don't know, but I tend to take a band's word for their genre over the damn media's word. Can someone explain how the media is more reliable for classifying a band than the freaking band itself? I don't know about you, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Logan The Master (talk) 14:46, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Before they made their music, and even sometime during, there was pretty much no such thing as Grunge as it was so obscure; so it was easier for the band to classify themselves as "Punk rock" so people would have an idea what their sound was like. There is no argument that Kurt took most of his insperation for Nirvana from Punk rock bands and also based a lot of his philosophy on it (with the whole "punk rock is freedom" thing etc.) but I personally would say that Grunge is a sub-genre of punk rock, so a mention of punk rock as the genre that Kurt played in shouldn't really be needed. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 09:44, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but grunge is also a sub-genre of alternative rock. Therefore, going by your logic, alternative rock shouldn't be mentioned either. And IMO, Nirvana is more punk than alternative. Logan The Master (talk) 14:23, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

that's true, I suppose both grunge and punk rock are seperate sub-genres of "Alternative Rock" and so it could be written as something like "Alternative Rock (Grunge)" but, seeing as the wording has been decided on many times before, it should probably stay as-is. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 14:45, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, since Fecal Matter was a punk band, why don't we just put either "early" or "Fecal Matter" in parentheses. I think that would make everyone happy. Here's how it would look with both "early" and "Fecal Matter": Logan The Master (talk) 15:07, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

(Later collapsed to fix page formatting)

Kurt Cobain Cobain (right) performing with Nirvana at the 1992 MTV Video Music Awards Background information Birth name Kurt Donald Cobain Also known as Kurt Cobain Genres Alternative rock, grunge, punk rock(early) Occupation(s) Musician, songwriter, artist Instrument(s) Vocals, guitar Years active 1982–1994 Labels Sub Pop, DGC/Geffen Kurt Cobain Cobain (right) performing with Nirvana at the 1992 MTV Video Music Awards Background information Birth name Kurt Donald Cobain Also known as Kurdt Kobain Genres Alternative rock, grunge, punk rock(Fecal Matter) Occupation(s) Musician, songwriter, artist Instrument(s) Vocals, guitar Years active 1982–1994 Labels Sub Pop, DGC/Geffen

Date of death

Resolved

It says in the first line that his date of death is "c. April 6, 1994" and in the Background information section (beneath the picture) that his date of death is "c. April 5, 1994". The more accurate one is the latter. Can someone please take care of that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.108.12.23 (talk) 22:42, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 112.135.134.131, 25 May 2011

No grunge band, rock band

112.135.134.131 (talk) 19:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I assume this is supposed to be saying "they aren't grunge, they're rock", to which I would say "um, no". Tarc (talk) 19:48, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Minor edit

Resolved

I don't have permission yet to make this change, but the following doesn't entirely make grammatical sense:

Cobain also had a period of consuming "notable" amounts of LSD, as observed by Tracy Marander,[76] and "really into getting fucked up: drugs, acid, any kind of drug"

Should at least be a 'was' before '"really...', or at best the sentence should be restructured.

(Above text added by Nottrobin at 15:02 [parts added at 15:01] on the 18th of July 2011)

The edit has now been made. Thank you for pointing out that it was necessary. Nlemslu Phlyshi (talk) 18:10, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from SquedgeGrommet, 25 July 2011

At the beginning of the Artistry section Dave Grohl is quoted as stating that Kurt believed "Music comes first, lyrics come second". the citation needed is the same as the next citation i.e 50 - Classic Albums - Nirvana: Nevermind 2004. I just watched it. Dave is interviewed on camera. The complete quotation is " Kurt used to say that music comes first and lyrics comes second, and I think Kurt's main focus was melody".

SquedgeGrommet (talk) 02:45, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

 Done Good find. I've removed the tag, reworded the sentence and added the full quote into the citation. Thanks, Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 13:15, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Kurt can actually be heard saying approximately that in a video interview. Although he says, "Music comes first. Music is number one, lyrics are secondary." A clip of that interview can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdIaCGHf-g — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.82.253.25 (talk) 18:59, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Dead links

This article has a total of 10 references to dead links.

• Inside the Heart and Mind of Nirvana (Rolling Stone) (two refs)
  • [1]
• Even in His Youth (A Healthy Me)
  • [2]
• Courtney Love: Life After Death (Rolling Stone)
  • [3]
• The 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time (Rolling Stone)
  • [4]
• Search Articles, Artists, Reviews, Videos, Music and Movies (Rolling Stone)
  • [5]
• Top-Earning Dead Celebrities (Forbes)
  • [6] The 2007 list doesn't include Cobain, though. For 2006, see [7].
• Park’s four-letter controversy erased (The Daily World)
  • Nope.
• Kurt and Courtney: Interview with Nick Broomfield (MiniReviews.com)
  • [8]
• Everett True (Magnet Magazine)
  • [9]

Anyone have updated/additional refs to replace these dead links? Sottolacqua (talk) 14:24, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

See above. Cheers, Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 21:17, 23 August 2011 (UTC).

Edit request from 97.101.199.236, 17 September 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} The Wikipedia page of Kurt Cobain has the wrong information. He was nine years old when his parents got divorced, not eight. Kurt Cobain also even quoted "I had a really good childhood up until I was nine, then a classic case of divorce really affected me." So there is some proof. You may search "Kurt Cobain quotes" on BrainyQuote.com for further information.

97.101.199.236 (talk) 02:52, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

You have not cited a reliable source - "BrainyQuote.com" is not an RS; also, you have not explained what exactly should be changed - thus, for now, I'm cancelling this request; please feel fre to discuss it further below.  Chzz  ►  03:09, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

 Done per Charles Cross. Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 11:25, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Kd cobain.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Kurt's own words about the song "Rape Me"

Kurt himself said the song "Rape Me" has nothing to do with the media treating him in any certain way. In a video interview of Kurt in 1993 (available on YouTube.com) Kurt clearly explains what he intended for the song to convey by stating "it's an anti-rape song" (period). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maristy (talk • contribs) 01:25, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Cool, is there a point to this comment? Do you want to put the information somewhere?P0PP4B34R732 (talk) 01:28, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 10 November 2011

The following is to request that some facts in Cobain's lifes likes his rise of fame post-mortem.

Thanks.

Chinopalquepida

Chinopalquepida (talk) 14:21, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Could you please be more specific in terms of what changes you are looking for, and whether you have reliable sources to back up any information you would like added or changed? As is, I think your request is a little too general to be actionable. Thanks. Doniago (talk) 15:17, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

We have a section Kurt Cobain#Legacy that covers this. Tarc (talk) 15:18, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 December 2011

There's an obvious error in the "Also known as" wich says "Kurdt Kobain" instead of Kurt Cobain

2.81.241.149 (talk) 17:15, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

He was sometimes credited as "Kurdt", such as the liner notes' credit for Incesticide's cover art. Tarc (talk) 17:19, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Replace refs

For reference 93 in Kurt_Cobain#Legacy, replace the dead link with http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitarists-of-all-time-19691231/kurt-cobain-19691231 and ref 94 with http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-singers-of-all-time-19691231/kurt-cobain-19691231 Alukah (talk) 02:37, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

 Done Thanks. I've replaced them quickly with bare urls, which I will now go expand... Dru of Id (talk) 03:14, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain sexually molested a mentally impaired girl when aged sixteen

According to "Heavier than Heaven" and Kurt's journals, he sexually molested a girl when he was a teenager. It can also be read in this short review http://www.livenirvana.com/official/hthrev.html Isn't this an important point for an objective overview of Kurt Cobain's teenage years? I would really like to see this added to the article but don't know how to express this in the right way, without doing harm to the idol. On the other hand, this IS something to be written about, even though the fans will not like the idea, I guess... But an objective article should deal with darker sides of persons as well and in this particular case, the person is a very ambivalent character. 83.135.99.151 (talk) 11:44, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Anyone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.23.140.110 (talk) 15:17, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, Heavier Than Heaven says she got naked, and Kurt became so repulsed and ashamed that he left.

Edit request on 2 March 2012

12th greatest guitarist of all time (list provided by rolling stones). not the 72 or something. Please refer the official rolling stones link below.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitarists-of-all-time-19691231/kurt-cobain-19691231 115.241.213.114 (talk) 12:02, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: The source in the article is a newer Rolling Stone list. Celestra (talk) 15:51, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 5 April 2012

The paragraph states that he was found dead on April 8, 1994. Needs to be corrected to April 5th.

168.251.2.42 (talk) 19:51, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Get this to FA in time for Today's Featured Article on April 5, 2014

It would be great if the editors would make improvements to this article (maybe with some help from the GA and FA articles in other languages run through Google Translator) and put it through the FA process in time for it to be the front page article on April 5, 2014. Fortunately that leaves two years to get it done. It would really be beautiful to commemorate Cobain that way, and I"m sure it will be one of the TFAs with the highest number of hits (for those who are motivated by that kind of thing). Lemurbaby (talk) 05:17, 6 April 2012 (UTC)