Template talk:Infobox Christian leader: Difference between revisions
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Christian leaders do not ''"reign"'' - they hold an office - not a realm. And the office is a spiritual one, not a temporal one. The wording should be "tenure" or "incumbency" [[User:JohnArmagh|JohnArmagh]] ([[User talk:JohnArmagh|talk]]) 18:23, 29 December 2011 (UTC) |
Christian leaders do not ''"reign"'' - they hold an office - not a realm. And the office is a spiritual one, not a temporal one. The wording should be "tenure" or "incumbency" [[User:JohnArmagh|JohnArmagh]] ([[User talk:JohnArmagh|talk]]) 18:23, 29 December 2011 (UTC) |
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:Agreed. This language is beyond bizzare. It should be "installed" and "term ended". I get that it is hard to fix this in retrospect but it results in some very strange entries. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel]] (<font color="#ba0000">Sarah</font>) 17:45, 31 May 2013 (UTC) |
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== Infobox inadequacies == |
== Infobox inadequacies == |
Revision as of 17:45, 31 May 2013
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Proposed modifications
I propose some modifications to this template. I've already implemented them in the sandbox.
- added "Elected", "Appointed", "Confirmed" (to respect the different way to chose a Christian leader)
- added "Previous office" (present in {{Infobox bishopbiog}}, a template that could be deleted IHMO)
- added "Consecrated by" (in order not to have the need in future of {{Episcopal Succession}})
- renamed Ordination" in "Ordinated priest", and "Consecration" in "Consecrated bishop" to be more clear (these terms are slightly differently used in different Churches)
- added "Papacy began": the papacy does NOT begin at the Enthronement, but at the election or at the bishop consecration.
Please give me some feedbacks, A ntv (talk) 21:06, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Your first problem would be better solved by having one parameter, but allowing label text to be entered. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:19, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
- "Elected" and "Appointed" are mutually exclusive, while "Confirmed" can follow an election. A ntv (talk) 21:39, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Looking for some user so kind to modify this template in order to have both "Elected" and "Appointed" (mutually exclusive), having one parameter, but allowing label text to be entered as above suggested by Andy Mabbett. Actually the 99% of the Roman Catholic Bishops are appointed and not elected, and this template cannot be fully implemented in such numerous articles. Thanks A ntv (talk) 14:04, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
- Done as per WP:BB. A ntv (talk) 12:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Signature
There is an ongoing discussion at Template talk:Infobox officeholder regarding whether we should keep images of signatures in infoboxes. MitchellDuce (talk) 18:06, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Coat of Arms
Been trying to insert a Coat of Arms section to no avail. Could someone please insert this into the infobox so that it is similar to: Template:Infobox nobility but so we just have the coat of arms beneath the photo of the person with perhaps a caption? Thanks Mangwanani (talk) 18:21, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
- I spent quite a long time implementing the necessary changes but some dick of an admin decided that, because there were a few glitches along the way, the changes needed reverting and the page needed protecting. Basically, I did have it working and had started adding Coats of Arms to the various infoboxes but these edits will not be visible any more. Check the template sandbox. My edits are there, they just need putting back in place. Mangwanani (talk) 19:56, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
- Calling me a dick and douche isn't very civil. My reasoning for locking the template is that you have made several failed attempts to make changes to this and other templates. This template is used on over 1500 pages, and these changes impact the articles in which the template is transcluded. Now, if you would care to focus on your request, rather than name calling, I would be happy to help you add a parameter for
|image_coa=
. I am sure you realize that this image is somewhat redundant, since in most cases there is a "manner of address" box with the same image. However, if there is consensus (or no objections), I am happy to help. Thank you. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:02, 30 April 2011 (UTC)- Well, the "manner of address" box is terrible and whichever solution that could supersede it is welcome. However I consider the CoA a very secondary item for a Christian leader, but that is a subjective opinion. Almost all bishop have a Cof, so we can implement it.But may I suggest: 1) a default "imagesize=50px" for the CoA and 2) to insert it in the bottom (under the "below" item), i.e. something like the signature: otherwise the CoA would became too prominent. A ntv (talk) 21:26, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
- the fact still remains that my change had worked, and had you looked at the infoboxes where I had made the chanes, you would have seen this. If you were so concerned to improve the parameter, you would have done so rather than reverting the edits and locking the page. Coats of arms are an iconic part of, particularly, Caholic apostles, and one of the most iconic and striking emblems of the papacy. The German Wikipedia employs them well - as does the nobility infobox on this. Note how important Newman's coa was in the papal visit to the UK in 2010, the messages spawned from it and the focus it, in conjunction with Newman's teachings, has had on our current Apostolic leadership under Benedict. I also hasten to add that the manner of address box is pretty much a waste of time and all the information therein can, and probably should, be included in the Infobox. Mangwanani (talk) 21:38, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
- Umm, no. This did not "work". You should seriously do some reading on how template:infobox works. If the image is not specified, anything in the caption section does not appear. Plus, there is a parameter called "image2" for a second image. I am with A ntv on this one. If we add a CoA, put it at the bottom. Frietjes (talk) 15:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- It did what it needed to. If anything all that needed adding was a |CoA = before the rest of the code to tidy it up. Mangwanani (talk) 17:05, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- How did that work out for you? Clearly you don't get how template:infobox works. Frietjes (talk) 17:16, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- Clearly you're stalking me now, so rather than doing that, why don't you do something constructive and fix any issues you find rather than pointlessly commenting on them....? Mangwanani (talk) 17:32, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- That answers my question. It didn't work out, which is why you reverted it after saying that was "all that needed". Frietjes (talk) 17:37, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- You didn't answer my point: as someone who is evidently so clued up on it, why don't you just sort it.....? And my referral to stalking extends not only to looking up at my edit history but then also going in to see my contributions and then following them, as you did with the Faulhaber page. Mangwanani (talk) 17:49, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- That answers my question. It didn't work out, which is why you reverted it after saying that was "all that needed". Frietjes (talk) 17:37, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- Clearly you're stalking me now, so rather than doing that, why don't you do something constructive and fix any issues you find rather than pointlessly commenting on them....? Mangwanani (talk) 17:32, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- How did that work out for you? Clearly you don't get how template:infobox works. Frietjes (talk) 17:16, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- It did what it needed to. If anything all that needed adding was a |CoA = before the rest of the code to tidy it up. Mangwanani (talk) 17:05, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- Umm, no. This did not "work". You should seriously do some reading on how template:infobox works. If the image is not specified, anything in the caption section does not appear. Plus, there is a parameter called "image2" for a second image. I am with A ntv on this one. If we add a CoA, put it at the bottom. Frietjes (talk) 15:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- the fact still remains that my change had worked, and had you looked at the infoboxes where I had made the chanes, you would have seen this. If you were so concerned to improve the parameter, you would have done so rather than reverting the edits and locking the page. Coats of arms are an iconic part of, particularly, Caholic apostles, and one of the most iconic and striking emblems of the papacy. The German Wikipedia employs them well - as does the nobility infobox on this. Note how important Newman's coa was in the papal visit to the UK in 2010, the messages spawned from it and the focus it, in conjunction with Newman's teachings, has had on our current Apostolic leadership under Benedict. I also hasten to add that the manner of address box is pretty much a waste of time and all the information therein can, and probably should, be included in the Infobox. Mangwanani (talk) 21:38, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
- Well, the "manner of address" box is terrible and whichever solution that could supersede it is welcome. However I consider the CoA a very secondary item for a Christian leader, but that is a subjective opinion. Almost all bishop have a Cof, so we can implement it.But may I suggest: 1) a default "imagesize=50px" for the CoA and 2) to insert it in the bottom (under the "below" item), i.e. something like the signature: otherwise the CoA would became too prominent. A ntv (talk) 21:26, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
- Calling me a dick and douche isn't very civil. My reasoning for locking the template is that you have made several failed attempts to make changes to this and other templates. This template is used on over 1500 pages, and these changes impact the articles in which the template is transcluded. Now, if you would care to focus on your request, rather than name calling, I would be happy to help you add a parameter for
I've prepared some changes in Sandbox [1], which result can be seen in Testcases [2] for your review and remarks:
- 1) I've added the field "coat_of_arms" under signature and quite small in size (the reader can alwayas click on the image). This is obviously a proposed alternative to the use of image2 (as implemented in sandbox by Plastikspork [3])
- 2) To reduce the size of the infobox I've put the fields "beatified_by" and "canonized_by" under the labels "Beatified" and "Canonized" (well we have the nice "{{br separated entries", let's use it ! )
- 3) I've added field "previous_post" as possible alternative to existing "profession" (we already a "Occupation"). It is necessary to list the previous posts of the Christian leader (in section Personal Details), while the field "other_post" is mainly used for the secondary titles/posts while keeping his main post. It is something like "Previous bishoprics" of template Template:Infobox bishop, still to be merged here. A ntv (talk) 19:00, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
- I like this, a lot. But, where does the 'Polish Name' bracket come in to play? Minor issue but on the COA front I do like this, a lot. Mangwanani (talk) 19:57, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
- well the implementation of the infobox in Article John Paul II (which I copied for testing) needs some clean-up.... A ntv (talk) 20:29, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
- Ah. But I do like the idea of a native name option. :) Mangwanani (talk) 21:10, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
- well the implementation of the infobox in Article John Paul II (which I copied for testing) needs some clean-up.... A ntv (talk) 20:29, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
- I like this, a lot. But, where does the 'Polish Name' bracket come in to play? Minor issue but on the COA front I do like this, a lot. Mangwanani (talk) 19:57, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
I implemented (1) and (2), since there were no objections. I will implement (3) soon after closer inspection (so long as it doesn't appear to break anything). Simply copying the sandbox won't work since the two were not in sync. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:24, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
- And, after some minor tweaks to the "if blank logic", I have implemented (3) as well. I will add a first draft of the new parameters to the documentation. Please feel free to refine what I add. Thanks again! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:37, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
- how is change in (3) altering the use of the box. With Eugeniusz Baziak as an example, would we have all those in previous post rather than other post with other post being only others that they are currently the incumbent - if that makes any sense... Mangwanani (talk) 22:12, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
- Good question. I implemented since there were no objections. However, perhaps A ntv can answer your question. I agree that there seems to be some redundancy between "other posts" and "previous posts". Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:33, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
- well, I planned to have the possibility to differentiate between "other post" currently held under the main post (for Baziak, while he was archbishop of Lviv he was also administrator of Krakow) and the "previous posts" of the ecclesiastic carrier (for Baziak, the auxiliary bishop of Lviv). Of course the chance of implementation in each Article is left to the the editor.A ntv (talk) 07:44, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
- (1)But we want a uniform style, so we need to agree on how the two sections will be used and stick to it.
- (2)Is it possible also to have 'CoA =' have the same function as 'coat_of_arms =' as I did start implementing the change when I made the edit to the template but, obviously now that parameter is defunct but I can't remember what I changed and what I left..... Mangwanani (talk) 11:10, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
- Perhaps a section could be added for ordained deacon? The ordination box currently refers to priesthood. Inclusion for the diaconate should be added, no? Mangwanani (talk) 11:29, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
- I concur (we could use the parameters "deaconed=" and "priested=", which are, though probably not official, common terms). However, often sources do not provide years for both, and often sources provide a year of ordination without specifying to which order. ✝DBD 16:20, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
- Perhaps a section could be added for ordained deacon? The ordination box currently refers to priesthood. Inclusion for the diaconate should be added, no? Mangwanani (talk) 11:29, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
- well, I planned to have the possibility to differentiate between "other post" currently held under the main post (for Baziak, while he was archbishop of Lviv he was also administrator of Krakow) and the "previous posts" of the ecclesiastic carrier (for Baziak, the auxiliary bishop of Lviv). Of course the chance of implementation in each Article is left to the the editor.A ntv (talk) 07:44, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
- Good question. I implemented since there were no objections. However, perhaps A ntv can answer your question. I agree that there seems to be some redundancy between "other posts" and "previous posts". Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:33, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
- how is change in (3) altering the use of the box. With Eugeniusz Baziak as an example, would we have all those in previous post rather than other post with other post being only others that they are currently the incumbent - if that makes any sense... Mangwanani (talk) 22:12, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
In office more than one time
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There are some cases, as Patriarch Jeremias II of Constantinople, where the Christian Leader was in office more times. Now this template cannot manage this issue. We could implement something like in Template:Infobox officeholder where under the single label "term" it is possibile to list different dates separated by a newline. As I've done in Jeremias II, using the un-appropriate label "appointed". Of course if we implement new label "term", it will go as alternative to "term_start" and "term_end". Here a proposal sandbox and testcases. For your review. A ntv (talk) 22:24, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
- I concur ✝DBD 20:06, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
- Please implement this change. Thank you. Frietjes (talk) 16:24, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
- Done. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:54, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you. I've accordingly updated the Template:Infobox Christian leader/doc. A ntv (talk) 18:41, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
- Done. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:54, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
- Please implement this change. Thank you. Frietjes (talk) 16:24, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Succeeded
I propose adding "Succeeded". A number of Catholic bishops were appointed as Coadjutor bishop before they succeeded as the actual bishop of the diocese. Their succession date is neither the appointment date or enthronement date. Scrivener-uki (talk) 19:54, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
- I concur ✝DBD 20:06, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
- In a case of a Catholic coadjutor bishop, his succession anyway requires a specific appointment by Rome at the moment of the retirement/death of the previous bishop, with a statement like this. Further the succession is not 100% sure, because the pope can change candidate. In a case of a coadjutor bishop, you could use the field "previous_post=Coadjutor of xyz" and use the usual field "appointed" stating the actual day of the succession as stated in the Vatican Bulletin. Further the proposed field "succeeded" would create confusion with field "Successor". A ntv (talk) 21:17, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
- You may be right about the confusion between "Succeeded" and "Successor", and so I withdraw the proposal. Scrivener-uki (talk) 13:02, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
- In a case of a Catholic coadjutor bishop, his succession anyway requires a specific appointment by Rome at the moment of the retirement/death of the previous bishop, with a statement like this. Further the succession is not 100% sure, because the pope can change candidate. In a case of a coadjutor bishop, you could use the field "previous_post=Coadjutor of xyz" and use the usual field "appointed" stating the actual day of the succession as stated in the Vatican Bulletin. Further the proposed field "succeeded" would create confusion with field "Successor". A ntv (talk) 21:17, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Enthroned/Reign Ended
After this discussion closed, we are to merge "infobox bishop" with this template. I have been able to identify a method for translating the fields of that template into existing fields in this template (see the sandbox for that template). The only difficulty is with the language used for "term_start" and "term_end". Would it be possible to make the default label "Term start" and "Term end"? I don't think "Enthroned" and "Reign ended" are the terms used for Episcopal bishops. We already have a switch in there for different types, so this would not change the value for Popes. We could also make it still use "Enthroned/Reign Ended" if the "enthroned" parameter is used, and the person is not a pope. So, my suggestion is to make this change. Any objections or suggestions? Thank you. Frietjes (talk) 16:07, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
- I just saw the section above. If we go with that change, that would work even better, since the current "infobox bishop" does not split this field into start and end. I will withdraw my proposal in favor of the one above. Frietjes (talk) 16:09, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you for your support on my proposed above change. The "enthronement" ceremony, often called also "installation", is quite common in almost all Episcopal churches. However not all the bodies covered by the "infobox Christian leader" use the term "enthronement", so a nice change would be to allow as alternatives different labels i.e. "enthronement"/"installation"/"term start" (the same for "reign ended"/"term ended").
- In merging the "infobox bishop" with this template, I may suggest this correspondence of fields:
- data1="religion" -> "church" (even if there is a "religion" in the "infobox Christian leader", but it is among the personal data while this field in the "infobox bishop" is a key fields comparable only to "church";
- data5="period" -> "term" (to be created as per above proposal);
- data9="reason" -> to add a new label/data in "infobox Christian leader" as alternative to the existing label/data="quashed";
- data13="bishops" -> to add a new field in "infobox Christian leader" under header "Personal details" (or to be merged with the content of "previous_post") A ntv (talk) 14:26, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
- Now merged. Thanks to both of you for working out the conversion. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 05:44, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Christian leaders do not "reign" - they hold an office - not a realm. And the office is a spiritual one, not a temporal one. The wording should be "tenure" or "incumbency" JohnArmagh (talk) 18:23, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
- Agreed. This language is beyond bizzare. It should be "installed" and "term ended". I get that it is hard to fix this in retrospect but it results in some very strange entries. -Aranel (Sarah) 17:45, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
Infobox inadequacies
So I've been using the infobox now for some time and attempting to get all the College of Cardinals up to date as well as various other bishops etc etc. It has become clear to me that this Infobox neeeds some new parameters/slight shift about.
- Catholic clergy are 'installed' not enthroned. Therefore it would be good to either change enthroned to installed or add the installed parameter.
- I second the above argument for a 'succeeded' parameter for coadjutor bishops.
- Roman Curia Cease to hold their positions on the death/resignation of the pope. Therefore we need parameters for 'ceased' and 'confirmed' for when they are re-instated into that office.
- Diaconate - It would be good to have a parameter above ordination to the priesthood for ordination into the diaconate. This is also a Holy Order.
- Overhaul of colours - I think the beigey colour used for popes is a) ugly b) not really related to the papacy. I think yellow would be more suitable. See the French version. Similarly, I think Green would look nicer for Bishops, particularly as it works well with their coat of arms. Again, see here.
- Previous offices - At the moment any previous office someone has held goes in a list at the bottom. This is both unclear and doesn't help anyone trying to follow some line of succession. I think it would be better to have parameters for various previous offices with an ability to move forward and backwards between succession. Have a look at the examples given on the French Infobox template to see what I mean. This would not only mirror the previous office parameters of Officeholders (ie politicians) but also our sister language sites.
- Additional duties - the French template also has a parameter for other duties that the clergy may hold, for example that of President of a Bishops' Conference. These aren't appointed by the Holy See and are thus currently being omitted from the previous_office parameter.
Mangwanani (talk) 20:31, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- 2. You could use the ended parameter and a paranthetical comment to clarify – e.g. Ended: 2005 (death of Pope)
- 3. On the Anglican bishops articles, we use Ordained: 1974 (deacon); 1984 (priest)
- 4. We use violet for bishops for a very good reason – it's the colour of bishops!
- 5&6. There's also the other_posts parameter, which I have often utilised for posts like you mention.
- - ✝DBD 22:38, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Not really sure how your numbers match up to what I've posted. Moreover you've missed what I was saying with regards to your point numbered 2. Not sure what you mean but it doesn't link to what I was saying about ceased and confirmed. I have seen use of the (deacon) (priest) but think it looks messy and cluttered. Also, violet is the colour of their trim - look at their coat of arms; look at the colour of the galero. Green is more suited for the job - look at how it is used on every other translation: French, Spanish etc. Additionally, in response to what you've numbered 5&6, please look at the French examples to see what I mean. It would be nice to be able to navigate between office holders of a certain post with the same ease as the French Wiki has. Mangwanani (talk) 23:00, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- It may even be wise to set up a separate Catholic Infobox so as to avoid the confusion from terms used by the other denominations. Mangwanani (talk) 23:03, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- My responses' numbers correspond to the order of your 6 points. Of course, we can learn some things from the French RC infobox, but this is an ecumenical infobox. For instance, bishops should be violet because many denomincations' bishops wear violet, not green because RC bishops get a green hat for their helm! Sure, you could create an RC bishop infobox, but why? Why not work together to develop something which works ecumenically? ✝DBD 23:32, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- It may even be wise to set up a separate Catholic Infobox so as to avoid the confusion from terms used by the other denominations. Mangwanani (talk) 23:03, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Church parameter
I'm a bit unsure what the 'church' parameter is used for. It seems it's being used for the christian denomination, but the 'religion' parameter covers that. The template is not just for bishops and popes, but is also used for priests, so the 'church' parameter should really be used for the actual church that the priest/reverend/minister serves: e.g. St Mary's Church, Nottingham or St Joseph's Church, Brighton. Just in the same way the 'diocese' parameter is used for the actual diocese that the bishop serves. Scrivener-uki (talk) 17:11, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- The 'church' parameter makes appear among the main data the name of the Church of the prelate. It is not a mandatory parameter and it is useful particularly in case of not famous Churches (for example this Patriarch of Antioch). The parameter 'religion' makes appear the 'Denomination' field, but differently from 'church' it is into the personal details. IMHO this parameter could be modified, moving it from the personal details (it is obvious that a pastor belongs to its own denomination) to the main data, in order to be used in most of the cases in place of 'church', in the cases the relevant religious entity prefers to name itself as 'denomination' rather as 'church'. A ntv (talk) 21:02, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Native name; eductaion
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Please sync with the sandbox; I've added two parameters, |native_name=
& |education=
, copied from {{Infobox person}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:24, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Done, just needs the documentation updated now. Tra (Talk) 22:07, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Formatting tweak
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Please make the honorifics and name appear on different lines to the name, as done in other biographical templates, by changing:
<code> | above = <includeonly>{{#if:{{{honorific-prefix|}}}|<span class="honorific-prefix" style="font-size:small;">{{{honorific-prefix|}}}</span> }}<span class="fn">{{{name|{{{Full name|{{{English name|}}} }}} }}}</span>{{#if:{{{honorific-suffix|}}}| <span class="honorific-suffix" style="font-size:small;">{{{honorific-suffix|}}}</span>}}</includeonly> </code>
to:
<code> | above = <includeonly>{{#if:{{{honorific-prefix|}}}|<span class="honorific-prefix" style="font-size:small;">{{{honorific-prefix|}}}</span><br />}}<span class="fn">{{{name|{{{Full name|{{{English name|}}} }}} }}}</span>{{#if:{{{honorific-suffix|}}}|<br /><span class="honorific-suffix" style="font-size:small;">{{{honorific-suffix|}}}</span>}}</includeonly> </code>
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:39, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
- Could you give an example of another template that has the precedent you describe? {{Infobox person}} does not appear to force linebreaks between the honorific and he name and I'm having trouble finding another template that has separate honorific fields at all. DMacks (talk) 06:07, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
- try Template:Infobox officeholder (which does not appear to have breaks) or Template:Infobox military person (which does) or ... Frietjes (talk) 16:56, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
- Might be useful to get wider input and a more-general consensus among the infoboxes. I'm declining this editrequest, as it's not non-controversial--I'm sure each one was set as a preference of...someone...without necessarily considering a unified style, so there's no reason to arbitrarily change one's pref to another's. DMacks (talk) 17:18, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
- The vast majority of our major biographical infoboxes that I know of use the proposed style; and we should encourage consistency of layout between such infoboxes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:48, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
- Indeed, {{Infobox officeholder}} does not use separate lines; that's why editors are forced to use manual line breaks; like Louis Mountbatten, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma; that needs fixing, but we can only do so many things at a time... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
- Might be useful to get wider input and a more-general consensus among the infoboxes. I'm declining this editrequest, as it's not non-controversial--I'm sure each one was set as a preference of...someone...without necessarily considering a unified style, so there's no reason to arbitrarily change one's pref to another's. DMacks (talk) 17:18, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
- It does; see Anthony Hopkins. The parameters are being copied to further biographical infoboxes, as and when instances requiring them are identified. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:48, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
- try Template:Infobox officeholder (which does not appear to have breaks) or Template:Infobox military person (which does) or ... Frietjes (talk) 16:56, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
Other Popes named XXX link
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The other parameter (Other Popes named ...) produces links to disambiguation pages by default (see Pope Marcellus II, Pope Alexander III). Per WP:INTDABLINK the template should link to the redirect ending with '(disambiguation)' instead. As far as I see it there is no option to manually change the link. In the sandbox I tried to hard code the word disambiguation. That works, but I don't if that's applicable to every article. Can someone look into this? LittleWink (talk) 19:19, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
- your edit, here, looks fine to me. I am going to enable an edit request. if the 'Pope {{{other}}}' link exists, but the 'Pope {{{other}}} (disambiguation)' does not exist, then we are missing a redirect or the {{{other}}} is simply wrong. in all cases this is not an error that would need to be handled here. Frietjes (talk) 21:16, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
- I was going to carry this out but I see the sandbox has been reverted. Do you want to confirm that the previous sandbox revision works? If so I'll sync. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 13:02, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
- I can confirm that this edit is what should be done here. Frietjes (talk) 16:26, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Done -- WOSlinker (talk) 19:09, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
- I can confirm that this edit is what should be done here. Frietjes (talk) 16:26, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
- I was going to carry this out but I see the sandbox has been reverted. Do you want to confirm that the previous sandbox revision works? If so I'll sync. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 13:02, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Limit the tracking category to articles only
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Please change
{{#if:{{{image|}}}|{{#ifexist:media:{{{image}}}||[[Category:Infobox person using a missing image]]}}}}
to
{{main other|{{#if:{{{image|}}}|{{#ifexist:media:{{{image}}}||[[Category:Infobox person using a missing image]]}}}}}}
to limit the tracking category to articles only. Thanks Illia Connell (talk) 00:50, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
- Sounds reasonable - it's possible that an article is being sandboxed in user space, but that the only available image is non-free, which aren't permitted in user space, so you'd not want to display the image, yet also not categorise the page into Category:Infobox person using a missing image. Accordingly,
Done --Redrose64 (talk) 13:53, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks! Illia Connell (talk) 14:07, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Capitalisation
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In Office -> In office --MarchOrDie (talk) 11:47, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
- Agreed, so
Done --Redrose64 (talk) 12:01, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you. Fast work. --MarchOrDie (talk) 12:05, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Capitalisation
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Other Popes named -> Other popes named --Mika1h (talk) 23:50, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Done. I also changed Antipopes --> antipopes. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 01:18, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Created by
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Please change: from
| label19 = Created Cardinal
| data19 = {{{cardinal|}}}
to
| label19 = Created Cardinal
| data19 = {{br separated entries| {{{cardinal|}}} | {{#if:{{{created_cardinal_by|}}}|by {{{created_cardinal_by}}}}} }}
Edwtie (talk) 08:52, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Done. It looked like a useful change, so I added it to the sandbox, checked it at the test cases page, and updated the template. For next time, it will help if you can follow the process at WP:TESTCASES. Thanks for your suggestion, though. :) — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 09:31, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks you :) Edwtie (talk) 15:07, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
ordained_by
"ordinated" is not a word. Can we add a field called "ordained_by" and possibly have a bot sweep through and change all the existing uses to the right spelling? Thanks. Elizium23 (talk) 06:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Saint
Would it be possible to have the colour change to yellow for Bishops who have been canonised? It seems silly having both this template and the Saint template on the same page and the saint template alone doesn't allow for as much information as this does, whereas this does allow for all the same fields to be filled out in the sainthood section. Many thanks Mangwanani (talk) 16:39, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Edit request
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To make this template more accurate, more flexible, and in uniformity with the foreign-language Wikipedias (esp. French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese etc) it is requested that the following changes be made to the colour scheme of the header (ie the 'type =' section).
- A category 'saint' is added with the colour gold (#FFD700) as per Template:Infobox saint.
- The category 'prelate' is added with the colour #AA0052.
- The category 'priest' has the colour changed to #8C8C8C.
- The category 'pope' has the colour changed to #FED600.
- The other requested edit is that 'ordinated_by' is changed to 'ordained_by' but the ordinated option remains so as not to damage the existing infoboxes.
- The 'native_name' and 'native_name_lang' are moved to the header to conform with the Officeholder Infobox (see Vladimir Putin)
- The heading 'Created Cardinal' is changed to 'Elevated to Cardinal'
A 'created_cardinal_by' section is added in line with the 'consecrated_by' section above.- A section entitled 'Confirmed' is added underneath 'Appointed'
If it is possible to add 'previous post' sections as per fr:Modèle:Infobox Prélat catholique to allow for continuity between predecessor and successor in the various other offices, that would be lovely. At the moment we just have previous posts in a list. This works, but the French model is rather useful.
Mangwanani (talk) 20:08, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- My remarks: I agree with the proposed changes except; a) 'created_cardinal_by' which IMHO is not a so critical info to be placed in infobox, b) 'native_name' stays better on personal details because the official name of cleric is their new-name, not a nick-name. On about the colour of saints, it may lead to edit wars because the sainthood is a POV of certain churches/denomination. On about the system used in Wiki French infobox, I dont oppose, but I simply see a lot of work with the risk of too long infoboxes full of unimportant info. A ntv (talk) 07:58, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
- The created cardinal by section exists apparently. It just hasn't been put in the /doc file. As for native name, their name is the same just a different language. The Latin transcription of their name isn't their official name, just a transcription into an alphabet we can read (see Vladimir Putin above). As for the sainthood, all of the information in the saint infobox is held in this infobox, it just means that canonised clerics can have the information about their sees and ordination history in the same infobox. The only difference is adding the colour to match the saint infobox. It shouldn't lead to edit wars as the people for whom it will be used already have the saint infobox on their page. Mangwanani (talk) 09:22, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
- Have these proposed colours been tested, with the default text colour, for accessibility? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:54, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
- The colours are either in use on the international Wikipedias or have been taken from other infoboxes, for example the Saints Infobox. Mangwanani (talk) 21:41, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- Perhaps; but that doesn't answer my question. Please do no re-enable this request, until there is confirmation that they have been tested and comply with MOS:COLOUR. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:26, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
- But that's what I'm saying. They have been okayed for other infoboxes, so why should they be re-checked if they've already been given the go-ahead? Mangwanani (talk) 18:26, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
- You say "rechecked". Where were they first checked? The mere fact that they have been used elsewhere does not mean that they have been, nor that they would pass such a check. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 07:24, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
- But that's what I'm saying. They have been okayed for other infoboxes, so why should they be re-checked if they've already been given the go-ahead? Mangwanani (talk) 18:26, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
- Perhaps; but that doesn't answer my question. Please do no re-enable this request, until there is confirmation that they have been tested and comply with MOS:COLOUR. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:26, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
- The colours are either in use on the international Wikipedias or have been taken from other infoboxes, for example the Saints Infobox. Mangwanani (talk) 21:41, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Administrator note Please could the proposed changes be put into Template:Infobox Christian leader/sandbox, and then reactivate the request? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:31, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Formatting of name & honorifcs
As an example of where HTML code has been removed from a Bishop's infoxbox, it is not clear to the viewer the name and honorifics of this Christian leader. The HTML code was removed on the basis of discussions that took place here, relating to Infobox officeholder, but the HTML code has not been translated to apply for Christian leaders. I'm not that experienced with HTML code to correct the Template Infobox. Is there someone who can correct the template? And then, once corrected, a BOT would need to be established and run to clear up all those Infobox Christian leaders that already have HTML codes. Rangasyd (talk) 07:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Spouse/partner
Re this edit, is there any reason that this infobox doesn't support a "partner" parameter? -- John of Reading (talk) 17:23, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
- update requested. Frietjes (talk) 18:20, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
Edit request on 29 May 2013
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please update to this version of the sandbox, which add support for a |partner=
parameter, as an alternative to |spouse=
.
Frietjes (talk) 18:20, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
- OK,
Done. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:02, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
- and it works, just tested it on Jeffrey John. Frietjes (talk) 20:05, 29 May 2013 (UTC)