Template talk:Aviation lists

"Gumby" box

Does this box really need to be stretched across the whole page? There's not a lot of links in it and it's a poor use of space. In some ways, the X-planes box looks better since it at least is reasonably sized for the amount of content. Askari Mark | Talk 02:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Full-width templates seem to be on the way to becoming standard elsewhere (cf countries and spin-off articles) but I agree that the space could be used more effectively, so have tried reformatting the template accordingly. Meanwhile, {{X-planes}} might benefit from {{Navigation}} and perhaps no bullets... (imagery intended)  Yours, David Kernow (talk) 07:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I disagree. Full-width fits with the standard design elements everywhere else on wikipedia pages, like the category boxes and top-of-page notices. While I've always hated that X-planes box, the full-width helps, even though with bullets it looks hideous. ericg ✈ 17:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid there remains such a thing as "too much of a good thing", even if it's becoming the standard. Several page-wide navigation boxes at the foot of every article will look so-o-o-o appealing. With regard to this box, I'm not sure rendering it in two lines is a readability improvement, although the glare of white space is reduced. Is there any way to center the box title in line with the link lines? Right now the title and timeline link appear left-justified together. Askari Mark | Talk 18:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Collapsed full-width {{Navigation}} templates rather than the bunch of uncoordinated templates sometimes seen at the ends of articles seems a definite improvement to me... Meanwhile, however, the misalignment of the title in the titlebar is an ongoing issue (cf, for instance, {{Navigation}}'s talk page) so if you can spot what's been missed or can be fixed...!  Yours, David Kernow (talk) 13:30, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree with David - having three totally different templates at the bottom of the page, all with different sizes, is exceptionally ugly and makes the 'pedia look very unprofessional. ericg ✈ 04:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Who said the templates had to be different sizes? I just don't like one size — the full-page spread. Few, if any, templates will ever make effective use of that much space. In fact, one of the things I like best about the templates being smaller than page-width is that they readily stand out as separate from the article itself. That is actually a "professional touch" IMHO. Having everything the same width is esthetically boring. After all, would you like to see the TOC and images and so forth be full-page-width? I see no problem with the trailing templates being "standardized" to something in the 60-80% page-width range. That would make them look more like a "further information portal" — which is exactly what they are. Askari Mark | Talk 22:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Is there a WikiProject or the like related to aviation...?  (I quickly scanned Category:WikiProjects but was surprised not to see something...)  I'm just thinking where an invite to comment for some folk likely to have some interest might be lodged; I think we need more than three voices!  Regards, David (talk) 07:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's Wikipedia:WikiProject Aircraft; "Aviation" is a portal. I'll pop the question in WP:Aircraft. Askari Mark | Talk 05:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's a rough idea of what multiple non-full-page-width nav boxes look like: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Weaponry task force#AFV navbox. (Ignore the content and specific style, I'm just talking about the esthetic impact of their sizing. I don't care much for the specific style and I think the width might be wider for what we're talking about.) It does make them stand out and without the unattractiveness of different-width boxes. Askari Mark (Talk) 18:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Should Missiles really be included in Aviation?

They're ordnance, really. Askari Mark | Talk 03:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

No complaints here if their link is removed; does/should it appear on the List of aircraft weapons anyway...?  Regards, David Kernow (talk) 07:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The term "missiles" isn't clear. Ordnance is military. Things that are located underneath an aircraft wing and launched while in-flight are not necessarily ordnance. When they aren't, their function -- their safety and reliability -- fall under the purview of RTCA, Inc. which is a civilian organization based in the U.S. but has members from all over the world. What RTCA publishes is used as guideance by agencies located throughout the globe.

Consider this: A UAV can be launched from underneath a wing and can provide remote environmental data. At present, UAVs is a category shown under Military lists but UAVs are not military. For example, "RTCA/DO-304, Guidance Material and Considerations for Unmanned Aircraft Systems" is created and published by RTCA, Inc.

Kernel.package (talk) 18:04, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Change to collapseable/nav format?

An editor just made format changes without discussing them here, and I've put it back to where it was with a note to discuss it here first. I know there's been a discussion above about the merits of the full-width format, and in that discussion, the full-width format had more support, so I'm starting this thread to continue the discussion in light of my revert. Personally, since nav templates seem to be where other such templates are going, it's more standardized, and looks better than a bunch of varying-width templates at the bottom. Akradecki 15:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

While I agree with the sentiment of deprecating the use of "varying-length templates", I do think what Karl was trying to do was a step in the right direction (although I still feel the boxes ought to be standardized somewhere on the order of 2/3-3/4 page width, instead of full-page width). I also like ArfonOwen's use of a darker title background as the original color was very hard to see on my flat-screen monitor; however, the particular shade he selected is a bit too dark IMO with respect to the blue-font text, so something midway between might be best. Askari Mark (Talk) 18:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the CSS system to reduce the width to fit the test would be width: auto; Would anyone mind if I made this change to the template? Karl Dickman ^talk 04:40, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm okay with trying it to see how it looks, as long as you're open to changing it back if it isn't an improvement. Akradecki 05:05, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Never mind; width only works with tables; we'd have to abandon the {{navigation}} currently used, or else imprison the navbox in a table. Karl Dickman ^talk 22:36, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

This template should be deleted or made less generic

We have put this template in every airline article where way more than half of the links are highly unrelevant. If you are looking at an airline article why would need to click on any of the following:

• Air forces
• Aircraft weapons
• Missiles
• Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs)
• Experimental aircraft
• Notable military accidents and incidents
• Flight airspeed record
• Flight distance record
• Flight altitude record
• Flight endurance record

-MarsRover 05:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

This template is actually in almost all aviation articles for a purpose: it provides a highly effective way for a person seeking information on aviation subjects to at least get a lead on it. If the template is irrelevant to an airline article, then just don't put it in. However, don't deny the rest of the WikiProject Aircraft this very valuable tool. Akradecki 06:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

IMHO, a template covering the entire spectum of aviation is too wide to be "highly effective". How about three templates (a) commercial aviation (b) military aviation (c) aviation records? It would make the links more relevant to the article. --MarsRover 04:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I can see some merit to that, but this template is so wide spread, I'd suggest taking this to the Projet talk page for a wider consensus first. Akradecki 05:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I like MarsRover's suggested breakout. Askari Mark (Talk) 16:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I most certainly agree with Mars Rover and think this template is far too generic and ubiquitous and should be broken up. -- Allstar86 06:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Making this _more_ generic

Reading the discussion above, there appears to be a will to make this template stand out more. however, this is explicitly discouraged by the navbox template documentation itself, and I agree that navigation templates in general should follow a common pattern rather than trying to assert themselves. For now I've "genericised" this template to a plain ol' navbox. Chris Cunningham 15:20, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Layout

Brought over from User talk:Malyctenar

Hi. Re //en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Aviation_lists&diff=193921088&oldid=192898658, you don't think that lengthy group name looks out of place beside the others? (It also eats into the template, especially so on smaller screens/resolutions/windows...) Sardanaphalus (talk) 16:15, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

No, I thought OTOH having "Notable incidents / and accidents" broken into two lines looked rather worse when there was so much free space in the right - the longest list is only about 45 em wide, IMO/experience this is rather small and should fit most resolutions. But yes, it is rather unbalanced; if you think this might be problematic, what about shortening the group name just to "Notable incidents"; or perhaps we should leave out "Notable" on the presumption that none other are covered by Wikipedia? :-) (After all, List of notable incidents and accidents involving military aircraft seems to have been moved some time ago...) Best, --Malyctenar (talk) 16:28, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Followed your suggestion and replaced the name with "Incidents/accidents". More significantly, though, I've also followed through your observation re "notable" and renamed List of notable accidents and incidents on commercial aircraft and List of notable incidents and accidents involving general aviation.

For consistency's sake, I'm wondering whether the lists of accidents and incidents "on commercial aircraft"/"involving military aircraft" should be renamed "involving commercial aviation"/"involving military aviation"; also Category:Accidents and incidents on commercial airliners (and others?).

Now off to look for/create a template to aid finding all these various lists! Sardanaphalus (talk) 02:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Edit request: List of accidents and incidents on commercial aircraft --> List of accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft

{{editprotected}} This change should be made in order to bypass a redirect.

The line in this template that currently reads:

|list3 = [[List of accidents and incidents involving general aviation|General]]{{·}} [[List of accidents and incidents involving military aircraft|Military]]{{·}} [[List of accidents and incidents on commercial aircraft|Commercial (airliners)]]{{·}} [[List of people who died in aviation accidents and incidents|Deaths]]

should read:

|list3 = [[List of accidents and incidents involving general aviation|General]]{{·}} [[List of accidents and incidents involving military aircraft|Military]]{{·}} [[List of accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft|Commercial (airliners)]]{{·}} [[List of people who died in aviation accidents and incidents|Deaths]]

because the List of accidents and incidents on commercial aircraft is a redirect to the List of accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft. --SSBohio 18:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

 Done. Cheers! --lifebaka (talk - contribs) 18:14, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! --SSBohio 19:12, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Aviation industry lists

{{editprotected}} request (suggest) title bar name be changed to 'Aviation industry lists'. --emerson7 20:50, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Why? Probably only around half of these lists describe "the aviation industry" --Rlandmann (talk) 22:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Concur, and nulling editprotected for now, there doesn't seem to be consensus for this. --Stephen 23:29, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Edit request: Accidents/incidents

Since I could'nt add anything in as the template is protected, can I request to add in the List of airshow accidents into the template since there are plenty of high profile incidents. Jay Pegg (talk) 11:24, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

This is an extremely general and broad template displayed on many thousands of different aviation-related articles. The list of airshow accidents is way too specific to include here. --Rlandmann (talk) 21:19, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Civil aviation authority

This template box needs article Civil aviation authority, with link name being "List of Civil Aviation Authorities"; the article consists mainly of a long list of civil aviation authorities alphabetized by country. --Mr Accountable (talk) 20:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Checked navbox and link was added. --Mr Accountable (talk) 22:05, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Link [[List of civil aviation authorities|Civil authorities]] needs to be changed to [[Civil Aviation Authority|Civil authorities]] to avoid redirect. Unless there's some plan to make "List of civil aviation authorities" redirect into an article. -Fnlayson (talk) 14:41, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

List of runways

I think this should be added: List of longest runways

Inter-wiki

{{Editprotected}} The iw to chinese wikipedia is outdated, as it is redirected to zh:Template:航空航天列表集. And if possible, please use Wikipedia:Template Documentation for this template. --Quest for Truth (talk) 19:34, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Interwiki updatedl you'll have to be more specific regarding the edit needed to implement documentation. Cheers,  Skomorokh  22:04, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

To implement documentation, I mean to move those inside "noinclude" to /doc, so that the next time it is possible to make small edits like the interwiki and categories. --Quest for Truth (talk) 22:18, 21 September 2009 (T[[UTC)

Thank you, User:Od Mishehu. --Quest for Truth (talk) 11:53, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Edit request from Schmloof, 30 October 2010

{{edit protected}} Bypass "List of people who died in aviation accidents and incidents|Deaths" to "List of fatalities from aviation accidents|Deaths", as per navbox guidelines recommending against the use of redirects. –[[::User:Schmloof|Schmloof]] ([[::User talk:Schmloof|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Schmloof|contribs]]) 00:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I do point out that probably even on the large navboxes, the 3 edits (your request, my edit and my reply here) will consume much more resources than the redirects ever will. In general it is best to only fix redirects when making other edits or when fixing terminology of redirects. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The "no-redirect-in-navbox" thing is simply to embolden the link when on the relevant page, not as a server load issue (see WP:NAVBOX: Avoid redirects). I should also have been more clear: the entry I was referring to is the last one in that group, regarding accidents, not the first one regarding general aviation. Thanks! –[[::User:Schmloof|Schmloof]] ([[::User talk:Schmloof|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Schmloof|contribs]]) 21:10, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request

{{edit protected}} There is a version in the sandbox: [1], which removes the link 'List of people who died in aviation accidents and incidents', because it is now a redirect to: 'List of fatalities from aviation accidents', which is already included in the navbox. Minor alphabetizing was also done. Please add this updated code to the template. Thanks, --Funandtrvl (talk) 20:18, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 Done. Could you possibly write the documentation for this template? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:19, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, done! Thanks, --Funandtrvl (talk) 18:01, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Lists of accident by country

Should List of accidents and incidents involving airliners in the United Kingdom and List of accidents and incidents involving airliners in the United States be added to the template? Mjroots (talk) 07:36, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

List of firsts in aviation

I believe that the List of firsts in aviation should be added to this template. Chienlit (talk) 09:58, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Would also like to see Homebuilt aircraft under "General".Verne Equinox (talk) 17:08, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

List of Human-powered aircraft

Can someone add this to the template please.Petebutt (talk) 13:17, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Not sure -- I think that's too specialised a list to go here; maybe discuss this at WT:AVIATION or WT:AIRCRAFT and see what other people think? --Rlandmann (talk) 14:00, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request 15 August 2011

In the sandbox, there is a version that updates one of the page title changes, fixes formatting, and adds a few links that have been suggested here on the tlk pg. Thanks, --Funandtrvl (talk) 19:10, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Done. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 17:06, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request - registration prefixes

Would someone please add Registration prefixes to the General list? Thanks! —Cxw (talk) 13:23, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

 Added — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:49, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Aviation lists

Can an Administrator edit the lists relating to Aviation from this

Aircraft (manufacturers) · 

to this

Aircraft · {{Aircraft manufacturers}} · 

ThanksPetebutt (talk) 13:38, 15 October 2011 (UTC) Oops - for full syntax copy from edit pagePetebutt (talk) 13:39, 15 October 2011 (UTC) Think about this one. I didn't realize how it was set-up. Does it need a re-think and edit to how I PROPOSE?Petebutt (talk) 13:41, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

consciously approach may be ideal

This option is satisfactory when visually comparing samples superb to well a uniform specified reference