Talk:Technische Universität Berlin

Purpose of Redirect

Berlin Institute of Technology is the name indicated on the English translation homepage of the TU Berlin website. --Danorton (talk) 05:23, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

It may have been in 2008, but it is now clear the thing is simply called Technische Universität Berlin. All attempts to cook up an English language name won't work, mostly for the simple reason that Universität means much more than "university".—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.137.182.27 (talk • contribs)

Horseshit. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 02:13, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't this article be renamed? the official website of the university uses the name "Technische Universität Berlin" and not "Berlin Institute of Technology" on its english page. http://www.tu-berlin.de/menue/home/parameter/en/ Lilied1 (talk) 13:39, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

It should be moved. The "BIT" was probably a failed marketing idea, published here cited from the newsletter "TU intern", 01/2008. It never did catch on, and today it is only found in obscure or dated places. The recent guidelines in the standard impressum of tu-berlin.de pages tells that the official name is "Technische Universität Berlin" and it's not to be translated. The "BIT" is only to be used as a explanation of the official name. -- LutzL (talk) 10:44, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Need to bring this up again! This should rather be called Technical University Berlin. Just as the article Technical University Munich calls the TU. Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 08:53, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

No, this is a wrong translation. It sounds like it is a technicality that it is an university. The bit of BIT that associates "technische" to "technology" is actually the correct way. Any translation of TUB has been rejected by the university itself, so that should be respected.--LutzL (talk) 13:28, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

""Technische Universität Berlin"" is the official title of the university. Despite all the given website translation arguments which are outdated by now, it is best to look at the published work of the university. All the publications of the Technische Universität Berlin (and, by the way all other TU's) have the german title Technische Universität Berlin, even in english written language. I can think of that all the Technische Universitäten have agreed on building up the "TU" brand (in an educational sense). Given the fact that all the websites, scientific papers, books and other publications are labeled with Technische Universität Berlin, I don't think that "Institute of technology" is an accurate naming (even though a correct translation!). Of course, "Technical University Berlin" is a bad translation, so, that is no option. Keep in mind that there are many german professors that care about the german language and also the german education system, which would also be an argument for the "Technische Universität Berlin" version. 198.129.37.71 (talk) 00:16, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move. Proposed name has not been shown to be the common english name of the university.--RegentsPark (talk) 21:42, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Berlin Institute of Technology → Technische Universität Berlin — Move back to the only official name. It is not to be translated per [1]. "Berlin Institute of Technology" is only to be used as transliteration. LutzL (talk) 10:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose. This request appears to be based on the common misapprehension that official names are automatically the best article titles, ignoring the fact that official Wikipedia policy is to prefer common names. Andrewa (talk) 12:37, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Perhaps so, but which is more common in English-language sources? Do English-language sources use the translated name? Powers ^T 12:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
    • Good questions. It's up to the supporters of this move to answer them, and until they do, there's no case for a move. Andrewa (talk) 02:13, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Noone but a handful of insiders in Berlin would suspect that "BIT" refers to the TU-Berlin. Since the use of "BIT" was for a short time official policy to use "BIT", there are of course lots of references for it. However, google trends does not find enough data for "BIT" (expanded of course), in contrast to "TU-Berlin" and its long form. So next to no one is searching for "BIT", contradicting, for whatever it is worth, that it is a "common name".--LutzL (talk) 14:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
    • That's a better case, but still vague and unconvincing IMO. Provide some links to the Google searches, perhaps? Andrewa (talk) 02:13, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

As you wish:

BIT no result

TUB (both forms)

Note also that at the website of the university, except in the impressums, there are no official pages presenting the university using BIT, contrary to what one would expect for a common international name. The only pages where BIT is actually present are homepages of researchers and research groups, and the library. The other pages, even if displayed by google, do not contain the BIT phrase, even in the source. -- I would even say that the original move to BIT was a violation of the common name policy.--LutzL (talk) 07:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, still unconvinced but at least now we know exactly where you are coming from regarding Google Trends. Disagree that common English names would necessarily appear on official sites, official sites tend to use official names. Your claims about the only pages... and the other pages... seem rather selective... why exclude the ones you have? I'm trying to assume good faith but it seems very like an attempt to manipulate the results to me. A naive Google search [2] finds many hits (not all of them English!), are the English ones really all excluded by the conditions you have chosen, as you seem to claim above? Andrewa (talk) 18:37, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, I can't do anything further. I'm unable to do an international poll of how many people know that the "Berlin Institute of Technology" actually is a full university. And I suspect that you would equally not be able to do a counterpoll to prove that the original move of this article was justified under the "common name" policy. Of course there are lots of google hits since around 2008 "BIT" was for a short time the officially proposed translation. But, per your own words, what the university proposes does not make an internationally known "common name". That they stepped back from that decision can be read in the impressums, sadly not the when and why.--LutzL (talk) 09:51, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

<-- reset indenting

Ah, is that the real issue perhaps? That the article title currently doesn't do the instutution justice, as it's a full University? The title Institute of Technology is actually quite vague in English; MIT for example is also a full University. Andrewa (talk) 20:35, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Wikipedia has made a mistake. If the want to translate "Technische Universität Berlin", it has to be Technical University (of) Berlin. When you say Berlin Institute of Technology, nobody knows what you are talking about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.27.19.236 (talk) 22:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

No, that "technical university" is a bad translation is, IMO, one of the reasons for the original move of the TU9 to "institute of technology". Out of the ten TU in the TU9, only the Karlsruhe Inst. of Techn. retained that name, and this only (again hearsay) because of the fusion of the universtity with a research institute at about this time. Another complication is that the Fachhochschulen (engineering schools) started to call themselves "university of applied sciences", so "university of technology and applied sciences" would be too close and too long.--LutzL (talk) 11:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

New argument for redirect?

All 9 (or 10?) German "Technische Universitäten" agreed around 2000 to call themselves either (preferred) "Technische Universität" or (if an English translation is necessary) "Institute of Technology (University)". Therefore, this article should be renamed "Technische Universität Berlin".
Unfortunately I can't cite any sources, but as far as I know, the TU9 (the 9 Techniche Unis), or their heads resp., meet or met regularly and once decided to use the Germany title on such a meeting. — Tauriel-1 (☎) 18:48, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I concur. A "naïve google search" as proposed above, limited to English language pages yields about 132,000 results for "Berlin Institute of Technology" (Wikipedia was excluded from the search) but about 768,000 results for "Technische Universität Berlin." Since many people regard Wikipedia as their resaearch authority, it should not give unofficial names as official ones. Neoryt (talk) 09:08, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

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Requested move (October 2013)

Berlin Institute of Technology → Technische Universität Berlin – The Technische Universität Berlin finally decided on a corporate design (Aug 2013). Since there are many votes for a name change in the talk-page and no (new) oppose comments I'd like to request a move. Some of arguments for a move are:

• The naming tradition of the university in (almost) all it's publications (books, papers, etc.) is in the german variant. See this english written book.
• The internal handle is Technische Universität Berlin. TUB german-english guide.
• The Wikipedia article itself uses most often the german writing Technische Universität Berlin.
• As in previous comments provided, the google search results for the german naming are much higher.
• Follow the RWTH Aachen wikipedia naming (as a branding), and also, the naming of TU Darmstadt and their discussion about the naming

I'm happy to discuss opposing votes. However, for the internal voting system do not forget to actually support this request. Hopefully with even better arguments! Relisted. Favonian (talk) 15:09, 22 October 2013 (UTC). 2602:304:56B5:3D9:558F:BB3B:C55A:B315 (talk) 05:53, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose - This is the English Language wikipedia. According to Wikipedia policy, the English name or English translation should be used as it is the most frequently used and recognised name within the English speaking world; regardless of what the official name is. RE: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English), Wikipedia:Article titles, WP:COMMONNAME, Wikipedia:Official names etc. --Rushton2010 (talk) 15:57, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Comment: What evidence of a current date do You have that BIT is anywhere the common name of TU-Berlin? Any recent paper where the address of the author is given as BIT, conference announcement where the affiliation of a speaker is given as BIT?--LutzL (talk) 17:12, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support, unsurprisingly, per RM from some months ago. The same arguments still apply. BIT was better than "Technical University", but was very fast abandoned without leaving much of a trace. Sources for the history of BIT or the TU9 move to "institute of technology" are scarce, to put it mildly.--LutzL (talk) 17:11, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

• - The common name for this institution is undoubtedly "TU Berlin" (as in this short version) as used in e-mail addresses, web location, logo.--LutzL (talk) 17:30, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

• Alternative: Although some editors have commented negatively about the idea before, I don't see any real problem with the title this article had before March 2010, namely Technical University of Berlin. I suggest that name in preference to the German form. It's in English, it abbreviates nicely as TU Berlin, and I don't find the alleged potential misinterpretation plausible. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:45, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Note: There was another prior move request discussion that people here may not be aware of. Please see Talk:Technical University of Berlin. It proposed the move Technical University of Berlin → Technische Universität Berlin. The result (on 25 January 2006) was "don't move". The later move in March 2010 moved only the article page without moving the Talk page, and seems to have been an undiscussed move. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:27, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

-Would this then even more strongly suggest that the move to BIT was a violation of the "common name" rule? I've to agree, 'Technical University' is the common (mis-?)translation of "Technische Universität".--LutzL (talk) 05:29, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

• Go back to Technical University of Berlin as BarrelProof. "Technische Universität Berlin is" 52x vs "Berlin Institute of Technology is.." 6x vs "Technical University of Berlin is.." 969x The University's own website has "The TU Berlin strives to promote the dissemination of knowledge and to facilitate.. " as noted above. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:30, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Note: I don't think, that a plain google search hit number can estimate the most common usage. Just think of all the scientific papers, which are read and cited with the german full naming. Also, old paper's and books may not be digitalized.--Maderthaner (talk) 07:16, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support - the above reasons seem good to me.--Maderthaner (talk) 07:16, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support per nom. The German name is the most commonly seen. We do not translate everything just for the sake of it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:23, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
• Move to "Technical University of Berlin". The Google Book numbers provided by In ictu oculi are convincing. The ability to shortform this name as "TU Berlin" is a side benefit. The Viking (talk) 17:42, 22 October 2013 (UTC)