Talk:Lucky Luke

New artist

Who is the new artist, following Morris?

The series is now called Les aventures de Lucky Luke (The Adventures of Lucky Luke), the first book of which named La Belle Province (The Beautiful Province), by Achdé (painter) and Gerra (scenarist). Plz see the official site. Avia 08:15, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Morris: Belgian vs Flemish

I propose to not enter into a belo-beligan edit war about whether Morris is Belgian or Flemish. Morris is instead borned in Kortrijk but has worked most of his time in French and lived in Brussels, and mostly at a time where these regional divisions were not that important. So can we keep him as Belgian here too ? Lvr 09:25, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Stupidest??

Stupidest is really the stupidest way of writing "most stupid", but since it refers to Rantanplan, I let it be for now... 惑乱 分からん 14:06, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be "stupidest" and not "most stupid," considering it's the same way with 'dumb,' and that's a synonym. 146.145.215.131 (talk) 02:03, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

No, you're incorrect. You cannot assume synonyms follw the same grammatical rules. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 00:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

The rule in the English language is that monosyllabic adjectives take the -er/-est comparative and superlative, bisyllabic ones ending in -y the -ier/-iest forms, and all other adjectives form the comparative and superlative with more/most. Consequently, it's stupid - more stupid - most stipid, even though "dumb" takes the forms dumb - dumber -dumbest. There is no rule to the effect that synonyms share the same word forms. SchnitteUK (talk) 12:21, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm a Poor Lonesome Cowboy

Does anybody know the song artist? 141.158.108.77 21:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I always assumed that the song did not really exist. It does now because of the animated series, but I think Morris made up the lyrics. Thermaland 21:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Real prototypes of Lucky Luke series characters

Suggestions for a better way to phrase this? I take it the intent was to list the real life people that have been portrayed in the series.. so what is Celine Dion doing there?

I think this shouldnt get mixed with the other type of cameo that happened often in LL, when famous actors were placed into character roles (Lee Van Cleef, Jack Palance, WC Fields) but it could be a cool list to include. --Murgh 00:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• Does anyone know where older Lucky Luke comics and be had? I can't tell from the fan site listed, as it is in Belgian. I am seeking the ones featuring Soapy Smith. Soapy 01:40, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

citing sources and rating importance

Lucky Luke comic books ARE best-selling in Continental Europe, and have been for more than 40 years. It is Quienes quierais que seais eh mmm ps q digo? Os amo eso es toojust common knowledge. Reprints of albums issued in the 1960s and 1970s are sold everyday not only in bookshops but also in every supermarket of French-speaking Europe (France, French-speaking Belgium and Switzerland). --83.112.229.245 10:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Months of publication

I somehow doubt that all 31 Dupuis albums were first released in January, and have a feeling that if no month is known, January is added by default. Wouldn't it be better to just give the year without a month if we don't know the month, instead of giving incorrect information? I know that e.g. Bédéthewue[1] gives this info, but I don't think we should copy their default values blindly. Fram 08:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Bedetheque seems to have January by default when they have incomplete date info, so to limit the entries to years-only makes sense to me. Murgh^disc. 09:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Luckyluke.JPG

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FUR has been added. Murgh^disc. 06:34, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb (talk) 17:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Lucky Luke category

Is the Lucky Luke category necessary considering that this is the only thing listed? Methinks we should wait until we get separate-yet-related pages to add a category. 146.145.215.131 (talk) 01:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, there are other pages, they just need to be categorized. Nevermind then. 146.145.215.131 (talk) 01:56, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Unclear text regarding the movies

I don't understand what the end part regarding the Terence Hill movies and tv series is supposed to mean. It says "In 1991, two films (Lucky Luke and Lucky Luke 2) and in 1992 a television series (The Adventures of Lucky Luke) starring Terence Hill as Lucky Luke were produced, according to Morris, who helps the director in the making of." The last part seems completely unconnected to the text preceding it. What is according to Morris? Certainly the mere existence of the movies and series or the involvement of Hill do not need to be credited to what he said. Furthermore I am not entirely sure whether this is supposed to say Morris himself was directly involved in the making of the movie or just in the Making of -feature, and actually the way the text is laid doesn't even make it clear if this is about either of the movies or the series! Hopefully someone who has seen this Making of -feature can clarify this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.128.189.250 (talk) 20:29, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

C-Class rated for Comics Project

As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/Assessment#Requesting_an_assessment and list the article. Hiding T 15:05, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Controversies

I have real trouble with the controversies. Only the smoking issues is referenced, and it doesn't seem like much of a controversy (though the replacement is certainly worth noting). The whole 'racial stereotypes' paragraph is full of weasel words and "some people say", while the only quote from the cartoons is clearly more intended to be a joke on the stupidity of the Dalton Brothers than a case of racism. I propose removing it unless some actual reference to back up the claim that there is a controversy can be found. DJ Clayworth (talk) 13:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC) Closer investigation shows that even the references cited are unreliable. "oslofreedomforum" is broken and "looninverse" is just some guy's blog. I've removed them. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Read Ching chong article, there is not much ch sound in chinese anyway. Lucky Luke contained many racial stereotypes, if there is something weasel it is the stereotypes in the cartoon. Though it was a work of past and racism approach differentiated a lot, Lucky Luke is historically inaccurate for many of the cases he draw, whether it is Jesse James or Daltons, yet the races clearly stereotyped. Kasaalan (talk) 19:20, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

My point is that the Daltons make these racist slurs and as a result look like idiots. Who is being insulted, the racial minority or the racists? There is also the fact that everyone in a Lucky Luke cartoon is a stereotype, including Luke. I guess we could call the cartoon cowboyphobic. Anyway, what you need to do is find some reliable references that back up these points of view, and write about them based on those references. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

The problem is also that you write this in a "controversy" section with no evidence whatsoever that any of this caused a controversy... Mezigue (talk) 21:19, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Call title whatever you like, criticism or anything else. "They played on the clichés of the genre, with humour that nowadays probably would be considered quite racist (lazy Mexicans, sneaky Chinese), but also with a special sort of being satire, mirroring contemporary social platitudes." This quote is from professional comic critic at Forbidden Planet (bookstore). "There is much less racism here [in Lucky Luke] then in Tintin: Non-whites are not more stereotyped than Irishmen or Italians." is from another comic review site. [2] The racial stereotyping issues with Belgian comics like Tintin is widely known which even leads self-censoring. Rest are facts, that if you read the episodes you know already. "In episode L'Héritage de Ran Tan Plan (Ran Tan Plan's inheritance), when the Dalton brothers are hiding in the Chinatown of Virginia City, one of them, in order to "blend with the crowd", starts uttering phrases like "ching-chong-chang-cheng". The leader of the Chinese community there tells him he wouldn't use such raw language even in reference to his worst enemy. The series doesn't contain black slaves."

It is not a professional critic, it's a blog on a store's website. And this whole other stuff is stupid. The Daltons are not Chinese, they are ignorant jailbirds trying to pass as Chinese. As for black slaves, god knows what that's meant to mean. Leaving aside the fact that Lucky Luke is set in the late 19th century, after abolition, and in the West, not the South, you see the fact the series does not try to get comic mileage out of slavery as controversial??? Mezigue (talk) 22:09, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

A blog by an expert. Forbidden Planet is an international comic book store chain,, that is even depicted in comic books itself [3], is certainly a professional site on comics. He is the main site critic at the main international site [4], which is clearly linked at top of the page navigation as second item after home [5], it is not a blog as a fan page. Kasaalan (talk) 09:41, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Section

Reuters claimed Maurice was forced to remove cigarettes Luke Luke smokes from his strip. Lucky Luke "used to be a heavy smoker, but he had to give up ... for commercial reasons". Belgian cartoonist won an award from the World Health Organization in 1988 when he replaced Luke's omnipresent cigarette with a plant.

Lucky Luke episodes contains many ethnic stereotypes of "sneaky" Chinese or "lazy" Mexicans,Native Americans, Irish and Italians, while others claim non-whites are not more stereotyped than some European immigrants like Irish or Italian and it is usual for an old comic to use such stereotypes. According to the Forbidden Planet (bookstore) correspondent: "They played on the clichés of the genre, with humour that nowadays probably would be considered quite racist (lazy Mexicans, sneaky Chinese), but also with a special sort of being satire, mirroring contemporary social platitudes." In episode L'Héritage de Ran Tan Plan (Ran Tan Plan's inheritance), when the Dalton brothers are hiding in the Chinatown of Virginia City, one of them, in order to "blend with the crowd", starts uttering phrases like "ching-chong-chang-cheng". The leader of the Chinese community there tells him he wouldn't use such raw language even in reference to his worst enemy. The series doesn't contain black slaves.

The thing is everyone knows it contains racial stereotypes. lazy Mexicans all around, sneaky Chinese, drunk Irish. It is historically inaccurate too for many cases like Jesse James, actually near all cases. I try to implement all views of the case "while others claim non-whites are not more stereotyped than some European immigrants like Irish or Italian" "and it is usual for an old comic to use such stereotypes" "They played on the clichés of the genre, with humour that nowadays probably would be considered quite racist (lazy Mexicans, sneaky Chinese), but also with a special sort of being satire, mirroring contemporary social platitudes." "in order to "blend with the crowd", starts uttering phrases like "ching-chong-chang-cheng" all characters are stereotyped and characterised, yet "racial stereotypes" are all around. Read Tintin and it is the same. Kasaalan (talk) 20:48, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

My point is we should mention the stereotypes, yet we shouldn't overrate it as a "pure racism" or so. The racism allegations changed dramatically within the century. Kasaalan (talk) 14:01, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I basically agree. It's stereotyping, but not necessarily explicit racism. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 14:43, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Black slaves

• 1850 United States: Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 was passed by the United States Congress on September 18, 1850, as part of the Compromise of 1850 between Southern slaveholding interests and Northern Free-Soilers. This was one of the most controversial acts of the 1850 compromise and heightened Northern fears of a 'slave power conspiracy'. It declared that all runaway slaves be brought back to their masters.
• 1852 Calamity Jane borned
• 1862 Treaty between United States and Britain for the suppression of the slave trade (African Slave Trade Treaty Act)
• 1863 United States: Emancipation Proclamation declares those slaves in Confederate-controlled areas to be freed. Does not include slaves in Border states (American Civil War) [five slave states of Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, and West Virginia, which bordered a free state and were aligned with the Union] and Washington, D.C.
• 1865 United States abolishes slavery with the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution Lincoln and others were concerned that the Emancipation Proclamation would be seen as a temporary war measure, and so, besides freeing slaves in those states where slavery was still legal, they supported the Amendment as a means to guarantee the permanent abolition of slavery.
• 1866 Jesse James first bank robbery
• 1871 Wyatt Earp got filed
• 1873 Doc Holliday becomes travelling
• 1874 Calamity Jane took his nickname began action
• 1875 Billy The Kidd involves crime
• 1881 Calamity Jane got married
• 1881 Billy The Kidd killed
• 1882 Jesse James killed
• 1882 Doc Holliday last actions and illness
• 1890 Daltons become outlaw
• 1891 Dalton gang first train robbery
• 1892 Dalton gang killed
• 1916 Jack London died
• 1929 Wyatt Earp died

It is sure Lucky Luke has episodes before 1880, possibly much before, between 1860-1880, yet since it is historically inaccurate it should also contain 1890-1892 for daltons. There is no such a certain period for the strips, 1860-1900 for broader extent. Also you claim there were no black in the West following the years of the amendment of abolition. Isn't it unusual no depiction of blacks, while Chinese, Mexican, Irish, Italian are drawn. Kasaalan (talk) 10:29, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Depictions of black people are fairly common throughout the series, often as butlers and servants, etc. Since it's mainly a humorous series, the issue of slavery is mostly omitted, though. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 14:42, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think these black stereotypes mainly are ethnic humor, per se, but rather a cartoon tradition of drawing afro-americans. In the Franco-Belgian tradition there never was any real objection to the style in itself, and since most Marcinelle/ Spirou artists were heavily cartoon-oriented, they picked the style up from American animation etc. and interpreted it in their cartoon world. So, since Morris tried to draw a cartoon Western, and there were many blacks then working as servants and butlers, he tried to do black cartoon servants, without much deeper meaning to it. The only "ethnic joke" about black people I could think of is in an album where he goes to old Detroit, (where there is a mass-production of wagons and horse carriages) and listens to some black people singing negro spirituals or something in their break hour: "This sounds pretty good, it would probably catch on, someday" or something to that extent. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:01, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Some comments about the Dalton brothers, the main Dalton brothers in the series are actually the cousins of the original, the original Dalton brothers are shown to be dead in the last pages of the original album. This would mean that these books are actually taking place after 1892, although as been stated before, the series are neither historically accurate nor generally chronological. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:10, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I didn't know that. We should add the info if it isn't already added. Kasaalan (talk) 11:09, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Racial stereotypes undue

Your edit was nice, and we shouldn't undue, still want to debate about removal of last 2 paragraphs

In episode L'Héritage de Ran Tan Plan (Ran Tan Plan's inheritance), when the Dalton brothers are hiding in the Chinatown of Virginia City, one of them, in order to "blend with the crowd", starts uttering phrases like "ching-chong-chang-cheng". The leader of the Chinese community there tells him he wouldn't use such raw language even in reference to his worst enemy.

The paragraph more like neutral to me, I copied it from another racism-stereotype related wiki article. Lucky Luke uses phrase, though "The leader of the Chinese community there tells him he wouldn't use such raw language even in reference to his worst enemy." so comic writer is aware such a phrase is an insult. On the other hand if you read ching-chong you can tell there is only a few ching-chong sounds in chinese and misconseption is based on english translations etc. We should add it somehow.

Though it should be noted, racial stereotypes does not necessarily equal to racism and racism perception of the world is much more different than it is in early 20th century.

The paragraph is meant to be an explanation of definition of racism within century changed a lot, which balances previous statements. We should include it too. Kasaalan (talk) 13:55, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, that ching-chong part just seems like a silly joke, and it's given undue weight, I think it suffices to mention that the albums contain stereotypes. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:13, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the way I read it (and it is an often used joke in other comics as well) is that a non-Chinese is uttering chinese-like sounds to blend in, but unknowingly says someting rude (e.g. the Chinese equivalent of "your mother is a ..."). I don't believe that the author was aware that "ching-chong" in itself is a racial insult, it's just an easy way to indicate Chinese to us Westerners (just like many comics used to add "os" to every other word to indicate Spanish, e.g. "Los Beatlos, mucho popular bandos from Espana". No insult is intended with these stereotypes and jokes, which doesn't mean that they may not happen to be insulting anyway. Fram (talk) 06:30, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I assumed "The leader of the Chinese community there tells him he wouldn't use such raw language even in reference to his worst enemy" part indicating writer knows it is an insult for Chinese, and actually tells not to do it. So actually it might also be reverse of insulting warning others, though I am not sure. Kasaalan (talk) 11:01, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I would think it much more likely that the joke is that the Daltons, making up what they think is nonsense Chinese, accidentally use a very insulting phrase in Chinese. That's much funnier than anything suggested so far (still not very funny though). With comics it's usually best to assume that the writer was trying to be funny. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:47, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Either way he is aware it is an insult, since he draws a Chinese guy telling "he wouldn't use such raw language even in reference to his worst enemy". But I am neutral for that strip, he might think it is funny, or just draw a "a dalton" would use such a phrase. So reporting issue as it is might be best solution. I don't like to undue weight, but it is a nice example strip. So I am not sure whether we should include it or not. However Franco-Belgian comics used to include that kind of racial cliches back then, some issues of Tin Tin couldn't be published without self-censoring today. I assume the racial stereotypes especially against blacks and asians, is because France and Belgium used to mandate many small countries in the past and even in 21st century. Kasaalan (talk) 21:45, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Phil Defer

"Except for the first album, Lucky Luke has never killed any opponent but still, he seemed to carry along a heavy burden, never committing to anything or anybody, and always riding off into the sunset."

This is a direct quote from somewhere, but it's actually wrong. Luke shoots and kills Phil Defer at the end of the 8th book. It's actually quite surprising especially if you're used to the later albums where you wouldn't imagine him doing something like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.157.155.247 (talk) 16:39, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

This seems incorrect. Defer only gets hurt in his shoulder. He does look very still, though, so it's possible the comment was added later and the story was toned down by the editor Dupuis. The second story in the album, which feels somewhat like a High Noon parody, follows a bumbling half-blind sheriff (not Lucky Luke himself) shooting down a whole band of gangsters, though, but it's told in a context of a campfire yarn, so that might have been one reason for its excuse. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 10:45, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Removal of bibliography

I'm going to revert this. First of all, it's not even true that we generally don't do appearance lists. Our Sherlock Holmes article lists every story he's in, so does the Mrs Marple article (with Mrs Marple appearances, obviously). The Superman character even has a seperate article for this - List of Superman comics. Also, they're not just “appearances”, each of them is a seperate book. If the list has become too bulky, it's possible to move it to a seperate article and we'd then only link to it here, but I don't see a reason to delete it. --Six words (talk) 19:00, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Napoleon has appeared in Lucky Luke ?

Napoleon was long dead before that time. The character called l'Empereur Smith in the story by that name is not based on the french emperor himself but rather on Joshua Norton. The latter is correctly mentioned in the list of Real-life persons who appeared in Lucky Luke. I suggest that Napoleon be removed from that list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.7.21.69 (talk) 04:39, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree unless anyone could verify this. --Oddeivind (talk) 21:18, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

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Kid Lucky?

I was wondering if the newest album Statue Squaw (number 82) should really be counted as part of Lucky Luke collected editions. I believe this album belongs to the spin off series Kid Lucky. Coming to think of it, this also applies to albums 78 and 80. --Slubbislen (talk) 13:11, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for flagging that up. The whole Kid Lucky business needs adding as well - working on it now. Mezigue (talk) 13:41, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Added actor Sidney Greenstreet to real-life caricatures. Kid Lucky albums seem to have crept up again in the list.--82.221.53.156 (talk) 16:29, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Lee Marvin or James Coburn?

It is claimed that outlaw Pistole Pete in the album En remontant le Mississippi is a caricature of American actor Lee Marvin. Some other sources claim Pete is a caricature of American actor James Coburn. To me Pete bears a stronger resemblance to Coburn, but others could disagree. Can someone clarify? --82.221.53.156 (talk) 11:26, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, they had the same sort of mouth so he resembles both. I would probably lean towards Marvin, but who knows? ERLM came out the year after The Magnificent Seven, co-starring James Coburn as a cool gunslinger. He might have merged them as a type for all we know. Mezigue (talk) 13:51, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Good point. I recently posted an article on ERLM on the Icelandic Wikipedia, keeping both options open. --82.221.53.156 (talk) 14:17, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

In any case, everything should be sourced on Wikipedia and there are few or no reliable sources on this so I have removed the section here. Mezigue (talk) 15:09, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

I believe there are some reliable sources, like the coverage on Morris on Comiclopedia (lambiek.net), article by Kure and Milton in En stakkels, ensom cowboy (published in Scandinavia) and many published sources in French. According to Comiclopedia, Pistole Pete is a caricature of James Coburn. --82.221.53.156 (talk) 10:38, 17 August 2016 (UTC)