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Draft for Venom (2018 film)

This is just a notice that there is a draft for Venom at Draft:Venom (2018 film) until such time that it is ready for inclusion in the mainspace. All are welcome to come help nurture the article's development there. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:41, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Shirt58 What happened to the draft? It is now a redirect to a section in another article. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 12:36, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What a tragic incident of collateral damage. The history saved anywhere? --Kailash29792 (talk) 12:41, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We might need to asksomeone to WP:UNDELETE, but lets wait and see what Shirt58 says about it. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 12:53, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oops! What was that? I've requested to czar, wait if he could do it. --Captain Assassin! ^{«T ♦ C ♦ G»} 14:26, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. All of the edit history was here, just needed to restore it. Shirt likely either wanted to undo the move or confused the mainspaced draft with the draft page, but suffice it to say it was likely a mistake. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 16:34, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Strange twist for the cinematic universe

Here is an interesting comment from Amy Pascal, right in front of Keven Feige. - DinoSlider (talk) 15:42, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like its going to be a bit of a one-way street, similar to how the TV shows play in the world of the films but Marvel Studios has no plans to work with them either. I think I have added this in a way that doesn't imply Marvel's involvement. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:54, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

My thoughts exactly. - DinoSlider (talk) 23:08, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:32, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure a few of these are floating around out there, but here is the clarification from Feige and Pascal on the MCU "adjunct" thing from Collider. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:54, 26 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reid Scott

Deadline says that Scott has the role (so is not just in talks), but they cite Variety, who we have used here to say that Scott is only in talks. Should we just stick with what we have for now? - adamstom97 (talk) 22:19, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

IIRC Deadline credits Variety as being their sister company so I think they generally share their news stories. Even still like any site they can tend to change up wording when they do their own article. So some will go "George Clooney and Allison Mack are in negotiations to join Deal or No Deal film adaptation" and others will go "George Clooney and Allison Mack have joined the cast of Deal or No Deal" and not mention anything about negotiations. So it's better to be safe then sorry and wait for more concrete confirmation that they're officially cast. Rusted AutoParts 23:20, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Adjunct"

I am aware that this is the term used by producers to discribe the relationship of the film to the MCU. However, per WP:READERSFIRST, I do not think it's a term that readers will completely understand as it relates to film. It's better to spell it, especially in the lead.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 21:49, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I just don't think that the way you have interpreted this is the same as what we have been told. We know that Marvel Studios is not working on the film and it will not be integrated into the MCU like Homecoming, but Sony considers it to be set in the same fictional universe as Homecoming anyway and sees the potential for crossover at some point. That does not say "related to, but not part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe" to me, though it also doesn't feel honest to outright call this an MCU film, because it isn't really that either. So how do we not say it is in the MCU, but also not say that it isn't? I feel like "adjunct" is a pretty good option, and it also happens to be the word that they used! I do understand wanting to help the readers, but I don't think the lead is the place to be going into all these details on something that I doubt will be that significant in the full scope of this article. Perhaps we could accompany my wording with a note that further explains it? For example:

Venom is an upcoming American superhero film based on the Marvel Comics character of the same name, produced by Columbia Pictures and distributed by Sony Pictures Releasing. It is intended to be the first film in Sony's Marvel Universe, adjunct to the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU).^{[N 1]} The film is being directed by Ruben Fleischer, from a script by Scott Rosenberg & Jeff Pinkner and Kelly Marcel, and stars Tom Hardy in the title role.

^ Marvel Studios is not involved with this film, and does not plan to have it crossover with their MCU,^[1] but Sony does consider it to be set in "the same world" as MCU films such as Spider-Man: Homecoming, with producer Amy Pascal describing Venom as being "adjunct" to that world.^[2]

I think that is a good compromise that helps explain what we know to the reader without the personal interpretations. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:40, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The note is a good option but I have two objections. First is the phrase "their MCU". The MCU is Marvel's property, but this makes it sound like Marvel and Sony have their own MCUs. Just say "the MCU". Second, "does not plan to have it crossover with" should be changed to "does not plan to include it in", which is closer to Feige's wording and makes a more explicit distinction.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 22:54, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How about "integrate" instead of "include", since that is the word used for Homecoming? - adamstom97 (talk) 23:22, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm okay with that.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 23:26, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I'll make that change. I also wanted to bring up the issue with the MCU template. We have agreed that we aren't going to say that it is in the MCU, but we aren't going to say that it isn't either. I feel like putting it in a "Related" section of that template works with that thinking. However, I can also see an argument for just having a link to Sony's Marvel Universe in that section (once that article exists) and then leaving the individual film links out of it. Just some thoughts to be considered. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:51, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Hadden, James (June 13, 2017). "Kevin Feige Says There Are No Plans For VENOM In The Marvel Cinematic Universe". ScreenGeek.net. Archived from the original on June 19, 2017. Retrieved June 19, 2017. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
^ Auger, Andrew (June 18, 2017). "Venom & Black Cat Movies Will Be 'Adjuncts' to the MCU's Spider-Man". Screen Rant. Archived from the original on June 19, 2017. Retrieved June 19, 2017. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

Sony's Marvel Universe

Will people please stop editing this article along with Silver Sable and Black Cat with false facts about Venom and Silver & Black connecting to the stupid Marvel Cinematic Universe? The planned SMU is supposed to be it's own universe! - Cineplex (talk) 21:04, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not remove sourced information from the article just because you don't like it. - adamstom97 (talk) 01:38, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here's some sourced information after the whole "adjunct to the MCU" from last summer that should prove you wrong and consider changing the article for the better!

The planned SMU is supposed to be it's own universe! - Cineplex (talk) 10:43PM - November 11, 2017

Of those sources, the only one that is relevant to this discussion is the Collider interview where Pascal tries to distance the MCU and SMU films. However, she then went ahead two days later and said, "Although you’re not going to see them in the Marvel [Cinematic] Universe, it’s in the same reality." So again, they are not MCU films as we would know them, and Marvel Studios is not involved, but Sony wants them to be in the same "world" or "reality" as Homecoming. I know this isn't as neat and tidy as we would like it, but it is pretty straight forward: as far as Marvel is concerned, these films are separate from the MCU; as far as Sony is concerned, there is at least a tangential connection. - adamstom97 (talk) 07:09, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The question is though even thought it is not neat and tidy what should we do with it? Should we mention the MCU in the SMU articles and not vice versa, or what? Perhaps leave out any mention until something is confirmed more concretely? Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 11:35, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think what we have is fine, just give the facts that we know and change it later if we need to. - adamstom97 (talk) 18:03, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

https://movieweb.com/venom-movie-poster-brazil-comic-con/ says it's not connected to the MCU! - Cineplex (talk) 12:02PM - December 8, 2017

That doesn't mean anything to this discussion. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:41, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Michelle Williams and co.

@Adamstom.97: Seriously? The Deadline article does not, as you say "reference" any other articles. It explicitly states that Williams, Riz Ahmed, and Reid Scott are attached to star. What makes you think that their reporting isn't accurate? --Krimuk2.0 (talk) 09:17, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rest of the Cast should be added

Its been TWO MONTHS since the film began shooting and no press release. I say we put the cast up and if one of them ends up not being in the film then we take that persn down when we find out for sure. This is getting a bit silly. The only page i know to be this way. TheMovieGuy (talk) 13:55, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And we can wait some more. Remember, there is no deadline and all information must be verified. If we can’t verify it, then it doesn’t belong. This is not the news or a fan site.—TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:39, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Protection

Due to the regular unnecessary and somewhat vandalistic edits by some users I think that this article should be placed under semi-protection status so that people are not adding unsourced information as it clearly states in the sections that are vandalized.--Paleface Jack 02:29, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Horror film?

Is it okay to add horror to the lead? I heard the director was influenced by John Carpenter and David Cronenberg while making the film.--OWSLAjosh666 09:34, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:FILMLEAD, it should be "the primary genre or sub-genre under which it is verifiably classified". - DinoSlider (talk) 16:30, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with DinoSlider. We have to avoid an opening sentence that characterizes the film in a way that has not been done before. Per the guideline, we try to follow what most sources say. "Superhero film/movie" is what they seem to say. OWSLAjosh666, you could make the case to mention the horror/Carpenter/Cronenberg detail somewhere later in the lead section. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 16:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Holland in the movie

Jon Schnepp says that Tom Holland was on set filming scenes as Peter Parker for a cameo - so that would be the adjunct to the MCU.^[1]

^ http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/01/18/venom-movie-spider-man-peter-parker-tom-holland-cameo/

[MCU-3] Marvel Studios is not involved with this film, and does not plan to have it crossover with their MCU,^[1] but Sony does consider it to be set in "the same world" as MCU films such as Spider-Man: Homecoming, with producer Amy Pascal describing Venom as being "adjunct" to that world.^[2]

[FeigeNoMCU-1] Hadden, James (June 13, 2017). "Kevin Feige Says There Are No Plans For VENOM In The Marvel Cinematic Universe". ScreenGeek.net. Archived from the original on June 19, 2017. Retrieved June 19, 2017. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[PascalYesMCU?-2] Auger, Andrew (June 18, 2017). "Venom & Black Cat Movies Will Be 'Adjuncts' to the MCU's Spider-Man". Screen Rant. Archived from the original on June 19, 2017. Retrieved June 19, 2017. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[4] ttp://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/01/18/venom-movie-spider-man-peter-parker-tom-holland-cameo/

[N 1]

[1]

[2]

[1]

@@ Line 86: / Line 86: @@
 :Per [[WP:FILMLEAD]], it should be "the primary genre or sub-genre under which it is verifiably classified". - [[User:DinoSlider|DinoSlider]] ([[User talk:DinoSlider|talk]]) 16:30, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 ::I concur with DinoSlider. We have to avoid an opening sentence that characterizes the film in a way that has not been done before. Per the guideline, we try to follow what most sources say. "Superhero film/movie" is what they seem to say. OWSLAjosh666, you could make the case to mention the horror/Carpenter/Cronenberg detail somewhere later in the lead section. [[User:Erik|Erik]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Erik|talk]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Erik|contrib]]) <sup>([[Template:Reply to|ping me]])</sup> 16:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
+== Tom Holland in the movie ==
+Jon Schnepp says that Tom Holland was on set filming scenes as Peter Parker for a cameo - so that would be the adjunct to the MCU.<ref>http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/01/18/venom-movie-spider-man-peter-parker-tom-holland-cameo/</ref>