Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board: Difference between revisions
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::The notability test for politicians at the municipal level, even in Toronto, is not "because they're technically verifiable as having held office, they're guaranteed articles and exempted from actually having to show substantive press coverage" — the press coverage ''is'' the notability test. Not just one or two glancing namechecks of their existence in articles about other people: coverage ''about them'', which enables you to write a genuinely ''substantive'' article. That's the thing you're missing: the suburban mayors and reeves and councillors of the preamalgamation era simply do ''not'' always have the same depth or volume of press coverage that the Core Toronto councillors had. NPOL #2 explicitly ''says'' the notability test is ''press coverage'', so the includability knife cuts on how much ''press coverage'' the person can or cannot show. I'm not making up my own special notability rules here, either: AFD ''consensus'' already decided all of this, and I'm just ''reporting'' the way it works. I'm not inventing my own notability tests at all — I'm simply ''telling'' you what the state of Wikipedia consensus around the notability of municipal politicians ''is''. |
::The notability test for politicians at the municipal level, even in Toronto, is not "because they're technically verifiable as having held office, they're guaranteed articles and exempted from actually having to show substantive press coverage" — the press coverage ''is'' the notability test. Not just one or two glancing namechecks of their existence in articles about other people: coverage ''about them'', which enables you to write a genuinely ''substantive'' article. That's the thing you're missing: the suburban mayors and reeves and councillors of the preamalgamation era simply do ''not'' always have the same depth or volume of press coverage that the Core Toronto councillors had. NPOL #2 explicitly ''says'' the notability test is ''press coverage'', so the includability knife cuts on how much ''press coverage'' the person can or cannot show. I'm not making up my own special notability rules here, either: AFD ''consensus'' already decided all of this, and I'm just ''reporting'' the way it works. I'm not inventing my own notability tests at all — I'm simply ''telling'' you what the state of Wikipedia consensus around the notability of municipal politicians ''is''. |
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::All of that said, there ''are'' certainly going to be some individual cases where a municipal politician in a preamalgamation suburb actually ''did'' get enough press coverage that you can actually write and source a genuinely substantive article — that's a different matter, and will be judged on its own merits. But the suburban mayors or reeves or councillors do ''not'' all get an automatic free pass over NPOL just because their municipality got annexed by Toronto at a later date: for mayors and reeves and councillors in preamalgamation Etobicoke or Scarborough or North York or Leaside or Swansea, the notability test they would have to clear is the ability to write and source enough substantive content about them to credibly demonstrate that they should be considered a ''special case'', and the ability to minimally source the fact that they existed is ''not'' enough in and of itself. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 18:45, 21 March 2019 (UTC) |
::All of that said, there ''are'' certainly going to be some individual cases where a municipal politician in a preamalgamation suburb actually ''did'' get enough press coverage that you can actually write and source a genuinely substantive article — that's a different matter, and will be judged on its own merits. But the suburban mayors or reeves or councillors do ''not'' all get an automatic free pass over NPOL just because their municipality got annexed by Toronto at a later date: for mayors and reeves and councillors in preamalgamation Etobicoke or Scarborough or North York or Leaside or Swansea, the notability test they would have to clear is the ability to write and source enough substantive content about them to credibly demonstrate that they should be considered a ''special case'', and the ability to minimally source the fact that they existed is ''not'' enough in and of itself. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] ([[User talk:Bearcat|talk]]) 18:45, 21 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:::So what's the difference in your mind between Metro Council before 1967 and after 1967? Its powers didn't change, the members of its executive committee had as much authority before 1967 as after. All that changed was the number of constituent municipalities was reduced. But a Metro Councillor pre-1967 was no less important figure than one after 1967, particularly if they were on the executive committee. And I think you continue to misunderstand what metropolitan government was. The boundaries of the "metropolitan city" before 1998 when amalgamation occurred *were* the boundaries of Metropolitan Toronto, not the old city of Toronto. If you look at population figures it was the figures for *Metro* which were given, not of the old city. [[Special:Contributions/157.52.12.31|157.52.12.31]] ([[User talk:157.52.12.31|talk]]) 19:01, 21 March 2019 (UTC) |
:::So what's the difference in your mind between Metro Council before 1967 and after 1967? Its powers didn't change, the members of its executive committee had as much authority before 1967 as after. All that changed was the number of constituent municipalities was reduced. But a Metro Councillor pre-1967 was no less important figure than one after 1967, particularly if they were on the executive committee. And I think you continue to misunderstand what metropolitan government was for the purposes of the "metropolitan city" test. The boundaries of the "metropolitan city" before 1998 when amalgamation occurred *were* the boundaries of Metropolitan Toronto, not the old city of Toronto. If you look at population figures it was the figures for *Metro* which were given, not of the old city. [[Special:Contributions/157.52.12.31|157.52.12.31]] ([[User talk:157.52.12.31|talk]]) 19:01, 21 March 2019 (UTC) |
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== New mailing list for Wikimedia Canada == |
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Cyclopaedia of Canadian BiographyFull transcriptions of two volumes of the Cyclopaedia of Canadian Biography (1888 and 1919) can now be found at Project Gutenberg. They may be useful sources for biographical articles for Canadians who are lesser known today. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/57724 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/53635 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruzulo (talk • contribs) 06:15, 19 August 2018 (UTC) Supply ManagementCan someone check Supply Management, I feel like Oceanflynn may be making edits in Good faith by posting only sources that are favorable to supply management and deleted content that seems unfavorable. I feel like he might be violating Wikipedia:Neutral point of view guidelines and come off as Disruptive editing. Thanks, 134.117.249.113 (talk)00:58, 21 September 2018 UTC François ProtatThere's been a bit of an edit war over the past week about whether Genie Award-winning cinematographer François Protat is alive or dead. There were no sources shown at all the first time he was edited to reflect him as dead, so it got reverted — and then today, somebody returned him to dead on the basis of a French language source which speaks of his disparition. The problem is that while "disparition" can be translated as death in some instances, it's much more usually used to mean disappearance in the sense of being reported missing — and even the person who added the source did so with the edit summary "assumed dead", meaning even they don't really know for sure. Obviously there's something wrong here, and we need another source which does a better job of clarifying whether he's dead or just missing, but I've been completely unable to find anything else. Does anybody either know where to find a better source than I've been able to find, or have some insider information either way? Bearcat (talk) 21:22, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
RfC: Removing lists of judges from articles on Superior/Provincial courtsThis would involve removing a lot of content from each of a couple dozen articles, so I thought I'd float it for discussion first in case anyone objects. Currently, every article for a Superior or Provincial court in Canada (see the corresponding rows of links at Template:Courts_of_Canada) includes a list of current and former judges. In many cases, these lists are very long (e.g. Supreme Court of British Columbia). I would like to remove these lists. They take up a lot of space, and I think provide more detail than is appropriate for Wikipedia. Per WP:LISTPEOPLE, a person is typically included in a list of people only if they meet the Wikipedia notability requirement. And per WP:JUDGE, a judge is presumed notable if they've held "international, national or sub-national (statewide/provincewide) office". The provincial courts of appeals are provincewide, but the superior/provincial courts are not. (I'm inclined to still keep references to current and former Chief Justices of these courts, where they exist.) Dindon~enwiki (talk) 16:16, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
42nd Parliament, House of Commons, political parties etc.How many vacancies are their now? I believe it's five, but not sure. If its five? then we've got some updating to do on several articles. GoodDay (talk) 17:54, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
Jody Wilson-RaybouldJust a heads-up, due to the sensitivity of the current matter, I've applied a week of semi-protection to Jody Wilson-Raybould to prevent drive-by IP vandalism. Bearcat (talk) 17:32, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Future RMsIf I can figure it out (someday) how to do it? I'll be opening RMs at 30th Alberta general election & 43rd Canadian federal election articles. Barring an extremely rare, unforeseen situation? those elections are going to take place in 2019. GoodDay (talk) 23:37, 14 February 2019 (UTC) Partisanism, againEarlier today, an anonymous IP removed sections from the articles about Ontario MPPs Lisa MacLeod and Amy Fee which addressed the recent controversy around the Ontario Autism Program. They alleged in their edit summaries that the sections were "biased information" added by an "angry parent", but (a) they offered no real evidence that they actually knew the identity of the editor who had added it, or any reason why "angry parents" couldn't still have valid points, and (b) I'm not seeing any obvious evidence that the content was editorializing anything not supported by the sources being cited for it. I ran an IP lookup on the editor, and it gave me a domain ID beginning with "pctnon", which seems at least potentially suggestive of a server directly associated with the political party ("Progressive Conservative T-? N-? ONtario") — so while I can't definitively prove anything, this may need some attention for possible conflict of interest editing. At any rate, I don't personally see an obvious bias problem with the content. For the moment, I've reverted the IP and placed temporary semi on the pages to prevent it turning into an edit war — but since I've been concentrating mostly on film-related rather than political content lately, I'm aware of the autism controversy from the news but not all that familiar with the deep details. So I'd like to ask if a couple of other contributors could look over the articles to see if they can identify an NPOV problem I'm not seeing. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 17:58, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Proposed change to lead sentence at territorial articlePls see .....Talk:Territorial evolution of Canada#Lead change.--Moxy (talk) 15:35, 20 February 2019 (UTC) March 2019: Vive la FrancophonieIn connection with International Francophonie Day on the 20th, WikiProject Women in Red is focusing on Francophone Women throughout the month. Help us to increase coverage of Canadian French speakers in English and/or in French, turning red links into blue.--Ipigott (talk) 12:17, 21 February 2019 (UTC) Proposing deletion for about 40 articles on Manitoban judgesI've found around 40 articles on judges who I think fail notability. They all follow similar patterns:
Some examples include: Frank Aquila, Kelly Moar, Lee Ann Martin, Patti-Anne Umpherville, Sidney Lerner (full list here) I don't think these articles even put forward any claim that their subject is notable (other than the fact that they're judges), which is why I hope they're uncontroversial candidates for proposed deletion (also because of the unanimous outcome of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carena Roller). But I'm putting this forward as an informal "proposed-proposed deletion". If anyone comments here within the next week disagreeing with my proposal, I'll hold off on prodding these articles until we reach consensus (or, if we can't, I'll go through WP:AFD instead of WP:PROD). Colin M (talk) 23:45, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
@RebeccaGreen: Hey there, I see you've removed some or all of the PROD templates for these articles. You posted a comment on each of their talk pages as well, but I think it would be simpler to discuss the matter here. For reference, here's the comment you posted on the talk pages:
I don't know if you saw the link to this discussion that I included in the PROD message, but if not, I'd encourage you to read what I wrote above, and particularly the links to this earlier discussion of WP:JUDGE and this AfD, since I think they address your concern. In short, despite what the name suggests, the "Provincial Court of Manitoba" is actually a collection of trial courts spread around the province. A Provincial Court judge sits in a particular district (e.g. Winnipeg, Dauphin, Thompson) and hears cases from that region. The only judges in MB who have a "provincewide" office are the justices of the Manitoba Court of Appeal, the province's highest court. Other provinces follow a similar pattern. Colin M (talk) 16:03, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
RfC on drug nameRequests for comment are sought at Talk:2010–2017 Toronto serial homicides § RfC on drug name on how to state the name of a drug mentioned in court documents about a living person. – Reidgreg (talk) 16:43, 26 February 2019 (UTC) Ready, set, lickWith the news about actor Boyd Banks licking a TV journalist live on the air, there's naturally been a drive-by IP egging frenzy on his article today, much of which has crossed the WP:NPOV line into calling him a creep — and, yeah, somebody who would actually do something like that probably is a creep, but it obviously isn't Wikipedia's role to call him that in our editorial voice. For the moment, I've inserted a neutral statement about it, referenced to a proper reliable source, and placed sprot on the article for a week — but I also checked the page statistics, and noted that it had zero page watchers when all of this was starting to go down. It's obviously got one now (raises hand), but wanted to ask if anybody else is willing to add the page to their watchlists to help keep things under control once the sprot expires. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 23:29, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
Properly sourced weatherbox for BC town?Could I get others points of view of whether this weatherbox is sufficiently sourced please. There doesn't appear to be any climate data available from Environment Canada for this location. Thanks Air.light (talk) 04:25, 28 February 2019 (UTC) Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Prostitution in Canada Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Prostitution in Canada.--Moxy (talk) 12:35, 28 February 2019 (UTC) Election results templatesA user has caught, and listed for deletion, a bunch of election results templates for the 2013 British Columbia general election that aren't actually in use. However, the actual problem isn't that they're redundant or useless — they just haven't actually been applied to the pages that election results templates are meant for, but rather each district/MLA pair is hardcoding the 2013 election results in-page instead of actually calling these templates. See Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_February_28#Unused_British_Columbia_provincial_election_2013_templates. The templates should actually be used in lieu of hardcoded results tables, precisely so that the MLA's article and the district's article can't be edited in contradictory ways, so really the only problem here is that the creator of the templates never finished the job of actually adding them to the relevant articles at all. So, since there's a fairly large cluster of templates involved and I'm not overly inclined to tackle the whole job by myself, I wanted to ask if anybody's willing to help go through the list of templates to make sure they're actually being applied where they're supposed to be. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 16:15, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Vancouver neighbourhood categoriesI've created and populated Category:Coal Harbour, Category:Kitsilano, and Category:West End, Vancouver. Please feel free to add and remove entries appropriately. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 05:50, 6 March 2019 (UTC) Election graphI wanted to raise a discussion about File:Canada federal elections.PNG, an image that's currently used only in a disused navbox template that's up for a deletion discussion. That navbox's deletion is justified, so that's not the question I want to raise — rather, I have questions about whether it's worth retaining this particular image at all. The image, for the record, is a bar graph depicting the popular vote breakdowns in every Canadian federal election. However, there are significant problems with it:
So, my question is this: is it worth getting somebody to fix it so that it can be repurposed somewhere, or should we just have it deleted outright as an inaccurate image that doesn't have enough utility to be worth fixing? Bearcat (talk) 17:26, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Signage and Freedom of PanoramaApparently all images that include signage in Canada requires a WP:Fair use rationale, and is not covered by freedom of panorama (Commons:COM:FOP Canada). According to WikiMedia Commons, such should be deleted from Commons (such as Commons:COM:Deletion requests/File:Décarie Hot-Dogs de Montréal.jpg). If this is carried out quickly on Commons over all Canadian images, many will be deleted, unless quickly reuploaed to EN and FR wikis with FURs attached to illustrate our various Canadian articles. The reuploading would seem to be an important matter for WPCANADA/QUEBEC on EN.wiki and FR.wiki -- 70.51.201.106 (talk) 13:38, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
Indigenous law categorization, and capitalization of AboriginalTwo discussions started in the context of the Canadian Law WikiProject that could use some broader input.
Any input there would be appreciated, and maybe Aboriginal capitalization could be useful as part of this project's style manual too. Sancho 16:41, 9 March 2019 (UTC) Rideau Hall's official residentThis isn't something that I'm going to overly dwell on. But, it does appear odd, to have Rideau Hall described as the official residence of the Canadian monarch and governor general, when via CBC, CTV reporting & writings, it tends to be mostly described as the Canadian governor general's official residence. At the very least, WP:WEIGHT would seem to favor the governor general's status as RH's official resident. GoodDay (talk) 18:51, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Maria AugimeriBit of a situation on Maria Augimeri's article where I could use a bit of assistance. When I recently viewed the article, the results of the 2018 election (in which she was defeated by James Pasternak under the new 25-ward model) were not being written about in a properly encyclopedic tone, but were covered only in terms of directly quoting her own personal thoughts on how she felt about getting defeated rather than actually describing what happened or why. The exact content was:
Now, this is obviously not the kind of tone in which we should be writing about politicians, so I rewrote the section more neutrally:
Today, however, an IP number with no prior edit history has been revert-warring me, flipping the text back to the soundbite version, on the grounds that "Wikipedia should be neutral and unbiased at all times. The use of public domain content should not be frowned upon nor discouraged." Except that (a) quotations are not "public domain" content, and (b) my more encyclopedic descriptive text is the more appropriately neutral and unbiased version, and the "Maria Augimeri's personal diary" version is not. However, it's not clearcut vandalism, so I can't just semiprotect the article or pull rank as an administrator if it gets to WP:3RR. Is anybody willing to assist? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 20:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Reeves and mayors of former municipalities of Metropolitan Toronto (moved from project page)Question: how do those below meet WP:CANSTYLE#Municipal politics and then WP:POLITICIAN? Hwy43 (talk) 04:35, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
@Bearcat:, @Big Iron: is correct. The fact that the boundaries of Metro Toronto were only later adopted by the City of Toronto is completely irrelevant. You are completely dismissing or minimizing what Metropolitan Toronto was and its importance. Metro wasn't some county council, Metropolitan Toronto was the largest municipality in Canada and the Metro level of government was the senior level responsible for the TTC, the Police, Public Works and the most important functions of the municipality. The mayors and reeves of the constituent parts of Metro were senior politicians who sat ex officio on Metro's executive committee and chaired various Metro boards. They were the most important municipal politicians in the city, much more so than say the junior alderman for Toronto's Ward 4. The senior politicians of Toronto City Council sat on Metro (ie the Mayor, Controllers, and senior alderman (wards had two aldermen) and Metro Council had much more power than Toronto City Council. 157.52.12.31 (talk) 15:03, 21 March 2019 (UTC) "That criterion refers to the city council, not necessarily the Metro council." - Bearcat, you're splitting hairs and making a distinction without a difference. Metro Council was a municipal council, a metropolitan council, and was, as the article Metropolitan Toronto states, an "upper tier" level of municipal government. It was superior to its constituent city, town, and borough councils and was made up of senior members of each (and later directly elected members. The mayors and reeves (before 1967) were all meet the criteria in Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Politicians_and_judges by virtue of being "Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.52.12.31 (talk) 17:35, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
New mailing list for Wikimedia CanadaGood day all, this message is to inform you that Wikimedia Canada has created a new mailing list operated by Mailman. This mailing list is for all discussions related to the Wikimedia movement in Canada, in both English and French. Announcements from Wikimedia Canada will always be bilingual, but you are welcomed to discuss in any language of your choice. The old google group will be abandoned. To join this mailing list, please go to [1]. Please make sure to check your spam folder for the confirmation email since it seems to always go there. Also, please forward this message to anybody who may be interested. Thank you and do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. JP Béland (WMCA) (talk) 15:59, 21 March 2019 (UTC) |