Jump to content

Talk:Abiy Ahmed

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 70.112.215.130 (talk) at 19:13, 28 January 2021 (per poststub " Information Center" https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abiy_Ahmed&oldid=826482313). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Template:Vital article

Date of Birth

The consensus is to specify 1976 as the year of birth. There is no consensus on what to specify as the date of birth.

Cunard (talk) 04:25, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There seems to be an endless series of edits to his date of birth. The, admittedly limited sources I can find all appear to agree on 1976 however

Heliotom (talk) 13:36, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

More sources for 1976, including one from Zena365, contradicting 1975 DoB

Yes. There are lots of links pointing to 1976, but most of them were written based on the Wiki article. I have credible (yet unpublished) documents citing 1975 as the correct DoB and that he is 42 years old, not 41. Allow me to make the change. Odaw (talk) 09:27, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

unpublished documents won't fly. See WP:NOR — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heliotom (talk • contribs) 10:14, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is disagreement over the DoB of the subject. The majority of sources seem to point to 1976, but may themselves be based on the wikipedia article, so there's potentially a feedback loop here. The article's original creator proposes a 1975 date but without reliable source. There was significant edit warring and disruptive editing/vandalism early in this article's history that is potentially the source of the confusion.Heliotom (talk) 10:29, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • 1976(Summoned by bot) unsure is unpublished docs are OR as we don't know what they are. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 15:11, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Probably 1976, but definitely not 1975 based on current sourcing. It's not clear to me, based on what I see in the sources, why Odaw is asserting that they are all themselves based on the Wikipedia article--other than some similarities in content for some. And unless I'm missing something, I don't see enough similarity across those articles (and our own) to establish a presumption that we are the source-point for all of their facts. If Odaw can assert certitude only because they say they have their own primary sources in hand is, that is of course textbook WP:Original research. So even if we were to be convinced that we had a WP:CIRCULAR situation here, we would not use 1975 based on claims about documents alleged to have been procured by one of our editors and we would have to default to providing no exact age or date of birth. Less than ideal for an article on a soon-to-be head of state, of course, but there would be no other solution remaining to us under policy, in those circumstances. Snow let's rap 05:05, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1976 (summoned) based on published source. If it isn't right, some sources will pop eventually and we can change it then. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:54, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1976. Some sources say, that he is 42 years old (maybe a birth date in January 1976?) but nobody questions 1976. I also found an old and independent biography from the time before his rise to power (WP:CIRCULAR not possible in that case) and that source also says 1976. The exact birthday in this old source, however, is not the 15 August but 23 May. So, 1976 seems to be set but the exact date is not. --Metrancya (talk) 08:34, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Title change

I am being bold and moving the article to Abiy Ahmed, as this appears to be the WP:COMMONNAME, as can be evidenced by a broad array of international and Ethiopian sources:

Being bold is necessary as Wikipedia's choice of language can influence discussion elsewhere and we should be proactive in avoiding distortions in our age of misinformation and fake news. --Varavour (talk) 16:50, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Birth date sources

These three sources: [1], [2], [3], state that he was born on august 15, 1976. M.Bitton (talk) 23:43, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The neutrality of this article is disputed:- The page is more of a propaganda of Abiy Ahmed, than showing the real picture

Hello all, The page lacks neutrality. The page is more of a propaganda for Abiy Ahmed, than showing the real picture. It is mostly written to glorify Abiy Ahmed's image.

  • It have many dubious claims which seem to be added to glorify Abiy Ahmed. They could be claims Abiy Ahmed said, but they are very dubious, and they seem to be added for poetical advantage purpose.
  • It is unproportionally critical of Tigray People's Liberation Front (TPLF).
  • It does not address almost at all the 3 million internally displaced persons (IDPs), who the vast majority were displaced as a result of Abiy's reforms.
  • There are reports of organised ethnic cleansing and systematic persecutions by Abiy Ahmed's regional local-officials, police, and militias which the article needs to address well.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]

Best regards, Truth gatekeeper (talk) 08:51, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note that this editor has been indefinitely blocked, partially because of WP:BLP violations, also misuse of sources, original research, stating disputed matter as fact, and NPOV violations, ironically. Generally a lack of understanding of policy. Doug Weller talk 19:06, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "TheGuardian, "Shadow falls over Ethiopia reforms as warnings of crisis go unheeded"".
  2. ^ "Reuters, "Ethnic unrest tarnishes new Ethiopian leader's reforms"".
  3. ^ "EuroNews, "Ethiopia: 3 million internally displaced in escalating humanitarian crisis"".
  4. ^ "Tigrai-Online, "Dr Abiy Ahmed's audacious move to rehabilitate perpetrator of genocide"".
  5. ^ "Tigrai-Online, "Dr Abiy Ahmed's calamitous odyssey approaching its climax"".
  6. ^ "AfricaNews, "Ethiopia PM conducting political, ethnic witch-hunt – Tigray chair"".
  7. ^ "Reuters, " 'Nobody will kneel': Tigrayans defiant as Ethiopian leader cracks down"".
  8. ^ "AfricaNews, " Ethiopia PM's crackdown targeting Tigrayans – Ex-Minister"".
  9. ^ "Tigrai-Online, " Do you have full confidence in Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed Ali to lead Ethiopia?"".

Section on the ethnic unrest in Ethiopia

Recently, Truth gatekeeper has made a series of sweeping POV edits to the article based on the treatment of the Tigray (people) minority. He cites a litany of sources, but the reliable sources describe two things: ethnic violence targeting the Gedeo people and the dismissal and arrest of Tigrayan officials. Both of these developments warrant coverage in the article, but they must be covered in a matter that conforms with the WP:BLP and WP:NPOV policies. I've added a section about the violence against Gedeos, but the Tigray issue is more complex, as many of the dismissed officials are related to Ethiopia's military-industrial complex. This appears to be a power struggle, as many of these individuals were part of the previous government which used the Tigray dominated police and military to crackdown on protesters [1]. SWL36 (talk) 18:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello SWL36,
Thank you for your comment, but please read the Talk on my page before saying I made sweeping POV edits, I have explained it there. But you made a POV on your above section yourself:- Don't you mean "which for political purpose opposition parties say is a Tigray dominated police and military" ?
Furthermore, if don't want to be intentionally POV, the issue with Tigrayans is much more than the made up accusations made on the Ethiopia's military-industrial complex (to selectively target Tigrayan members of the military as it happened afterwards). The issue with Tigryan now is more about the unconstitutional commission (which undermines the 1975-1991 armed struggle of Tigrayan people for self determination and for the equality of all ethnic groups in present-day Ethiopia).[2][3][4]
Furthermore:-
  • Abiy Ahmed Ali also started systematically persecuting Ethiopian Tigrayans, after assuming office in April 2018.[5][6][7][8][9][10] From November 25 - December 9, 2018, Tigrayans held massive rallies (against Abiy Ahmed Ali) in 10 of the major cities/towns of Tigray region saying "respect the Ethiopian constitution". One of their main slogan from their rallies was "stop ethnic profiling Tigrayans".[11] Abiy has also started building statues to commemorate former persecutors of Tigrayan ethnic people, like Haile Selassie.[12][13] One of the reasons why Abiy is systematically persecuting Tigrayans is so he can get the support of Amhara extremists & former Derg members/supporters.
  • Abiy Ahmed Ali says he wants even more free-press in Ethiopia than there has already existed, so on 2019 he invited back exiled far-right extremist medias like ESAT-TV (which is a media that called for genocide of all Ethiopian Tigrayan ethnic people on 2016[14][15][16]).
In addition to all these, please read the fear of Tigrayans of Abiy Ahmed's plan for them, on my Talk page.
Kind regards, Truth gatekeeper (talk) 23:43, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The point about the Tigrayan domination of these institutions comes from the Reuters ("Nobody will Kneel") source that you link to:
"Although the Tigrayans who inhabit these craggy hills are only a small minority in a country of more than 100 million, they have dominated its power structures since 1991 when the Ethiopian People’s Revolutionary Democratic Front (EPRDF) drove a Marxist military regime from power."
"This [the dismissal of some Tigrayan officials] is popular with many Ethiopians who resented Tigrayan domination of institutions such as the federal police, which violently repressed the protests."
Other editors have reverted your additions and pointed out that they violate WP:NPOV. Also, you need to provide reliable sources WP:RS to back up any claims that you make, as the wall of text you posted on your talk page contains wild claims that are absolutely not sourced, such as:
" Following these rhetorics -and ethnic-based hate messages by former Derg members-, over 70,000 Tigrayans have been barbarically killed or displaced in Ethiopia, where the majority of these Tigrayan victims were in Amhara Region."
You are clearly here to right great wrongs (WP:RGW), a disposition that is likely to get you quickly topic banned from this area. You should quickly familiarize yourself with WP's policies and take them to heart before continuing your edit campaign. SWL36 (talk) 00:27, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
SWL36 is giving good advice here, Truth gatekeeper.
This is not a question of censorship or a whitewash but of complying with our long established policies - and especially with regard to our policies with regards to biographies of living persons which must be beyond reproach when it comes to adequate sourcing.
Baby vs. Bathwater Annotated
Baby vs. Bathwater Annotated
I would also recommend editing in smaller sessions so that editors can carefully assess changes made rather than feeling that their eyes are glazing over as they try to assess a myriad of controversial edits and consequently and carelessly reach for the revert button and 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'. --BushelCandle (talk) 08:46, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes there's not a lot of choice if you want to keep your sanity. Doug Weller talk 09:08, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Reuters, " 'Nobody will kneel': Tigrayans defiant as Ethiopian leader cracks down"".
  2. ^ "BBC-News, "አረና ብሄራዊ የአንድነት መንግሥት እንዲቋቋም ጥሪ አቀረበ የሚሉና ሌሎች አጫጭር ዜናዎች"".
  3. ^ "TigraiOnline, "Ethiopian members of parliament were coerced to approve illegal bill damaging the constitution and Ethiopia"".
  4. ^ "TigraiOnline, "THE GOD THAT WEPT [እንባ የሚአነባው አምላክ]"".
  5. ^ "TigraiOnline, "Dr Abiy Ahmed's audacious move to rehabilitate perpetrator of genocide"".
  6. ^ "TigraiOnline, "Dr Abiy Ahmed's calamitous odyssey approaching its climax"".
  7. ^ "AfricaNews, "Ethiopia PM conducting political, ethnic witch-hunt – Tigray chair"".
  8. ^ "Reuters, " 'Nobody will kneel': Tigrayans defiant as Ethiopian leader cracks down"".
  9. ^ "AfricaNews, " Ethiopia PM's crackdown targeting Tigrayans – Ex-Minister"".
  10. ^ "Tigrai-Online, " Do you have full confidence in Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed Ali to lead Ethiopia?"".
  11. ^ "AfricaNews, " Ethiopia's Tigray region plans 'Respect the Constitution' rally"".
  12. ^ "Ethiopian News Agency, "African Union Unveils Emperor Haile Selassie I Statue"".
  13. ^ "EcadForum, "H.I.M. Haile Selassie Restored to Honor by the African Union"".
  14. ^ "HornAffairs, "Why ESAT and Messay Mekonen called for genocide on the people of Tigray?"".
  15. ^ "HornAffairs, "ESAT Radio and Television: The Voice of Genocide"".
  16. ^ "TigraiOnline, "ESAT TV, stop your hate propaganda against the people of Tigrai"".

14 year-old fighter?

At the time of writing this, our article currently states:

"As a teenager and in early 1991, [1] he joined the armed struggle against the Marxist–Leninist regime of Mengistu Haile Mariam after the death of his oldest brother. He did so as a member of ODP (Oromo Democratic Party), which at that time was a tiny organization of only around 200 fighters in the large coalition army of about 100,000 fighters that resulted in regime's fall later that year.[2][3][4] As there were only so few ODP fighters in an army with its core of about 90,000 Tigrayans, Abiy quickly had to learn the Tigrinya language. As a speaker of Tigrinya in a security apparatus dominated by Tigrayans, he could move forward with his military career.[2]"

References

  1. ^ Endeshaw, Dawit (31 March 2018). "The rise of Abiy "Abiyot" Ahmed". The Reporter Ethiopia. Retrieved 25 March 2019. For some time the EPRDF, was in talks with the OLF; in fact, the later was part of the then transitional government. OLF was, at the time, very popular in Oromia region. However, the peaceful talks failed to bear fruit as things turn to become violent. That was when alternative forces like the Oromo People's Democratic Organization (OPDO) came to the fore.
    According to people who witnessed that critical period, the OLF had strong support in Agaro like most parts of Oromia region.
    It was at that time that Abiy's family was directly affected by the political transition in the country. Abiy's father and his eldest son, Kedir Ahmed, were arrested for some time.
    Unfortunately, Kedir was killed during that time in what was believed to be a politically motivated assassination, according to people close to the family.
    By the time, Agaro, which now has a population of, 41,085, was believed to be a stronghold of the OLF.
    "I think losing his brother at that age was a turning point in Abiy's life," Miftah Hudin Aba Jebel, a childhood friend of Abiy, told The Reporter. "I mean we were young and I remember one night Abiy asking me to join the struggle," he recalls. "To be honest, it was difficult for me to understand what he was saying."
    According to multiple sources, Abiy joined the struggle during early 1991, just a few months before the downfall of the military regime, almost at the age of 15.
    "By the time we were teenagers; Abiy, another young man by the name Komitas, who was a driver for Abadula Gemeda at the time, and myself joined the OPDO," Getish Mamo, the then member of OPDO's music band called Bifttu Oromia, told The Reporter. "We were also close with Abadula Gemeda." Abadula was one of the founders of the OPDO and current speaker of the House of People's Representatives.
    Abiy, at the time, was working as a radio operator, according to Getish.     {{cite news}}: line feed character in |quote= at position 365 (help)
  2. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference prelude was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ Cite error: The named reference abiyot was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  4. ^ "Dr Abiy Ahmed interview with Amhara TV", ZeHabesha TV, 2017-11-21, retrieved 2018-02-18 – via YouTube

Although this is an extraordinary claim it is not impossible but I would like to see a better source that Abiy was only fourteen and a half when he joined the armed struggle.

Does anyone know if there is an official biography that I can look at online? --BushelCandle (talk) 06:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

4th or 15th Prime Minister

Recently, an editor using the IP address of 197.156.95.9 made the following comment on my talk page: "...as I've seen in the article Abiy Ahmed, he's in 15th prime minister, not fourth. In addition, the person full name describes in bold. There is million people who have a name "Abiy". Otherwise it's seems like disruption or vandalism due to ambiguous office holding position. If he is in fourth position, it should be supported by reliable sources."

Recently, an IP editor made the unsourced change from 4th to 15th.

There is a tradition for biographies of living persons in the English language Wikipedia to only use the shortened form of an individuals name after the first mention (in bold).

Although Abiy may be regarded as the 15th head of government of modern Ethiopia, the "Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia’s Office of the Prime Minister" currently states on its website page: "H.E. Abiy Ahmed Ali (PhD) is the fourth Prime Minister of the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia"[1] and I sincerely believe that the government website is a reasonably reliable source.--BushelCandle (talk) 00:54, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Prime Minister". The Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia’s Office of the Prime Minister. Retrieved 6 June 2019. H.E. Abiy Ahmed Ali (PhD) is the fourth Prime Minister of the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2019

Change "Allahu Akbar" back to the original headlines. Someone wrote "Allahu Akbar" in most of the headlines in the article, probably in mocking of Abiy Ahmed's last name and Muslim father. 128.0.73.12 (talk) 10:38, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Already done NiciVampireHeart 11:24, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Various vandalism and false information

The article need otherwise to permanently protected because the date of birth still changes. For some readers, it is not deemed as a good article. It needs a permanent protection in order to avoid further disruption. The Supermind (talk) 08:59, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is too many vandalism in the article. It must bemonitored by any uninvolved administrator. The Supermind (talk) 20:46, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:07, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The prime minister position place

In the article "List of heads of government of Ethiopia", the Prime Minister rulership started in 1942, with position of Makonnen Endelkachew. He is the first Prime Minister of Ethiopia. By count (excluding acting Prime Minister) the position reached up to 10th. I also believe that he is the fourth prime minister of Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia that is formed in 1995. The Supermind (talk) 09:23, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:08, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Section rename

@Memelord0: regarding this edit, would it better for the section to be renamed "Criticism"?VR talk 14:53, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Vice regent: I generally don't prefer to have a criticism or controversy section per wp:CRITS, but I agree that the section -although it's mainly about his political categorization and positions- has a negative tone and could be considered criticism, so maybe we could expand the section to make it more comprehensive? or merge it with another section? MohamedTalk 19:43, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@محمد عصام:, @Memelord0:, you're right. Sorry I didn't consider that.VR talk 14:36, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2020

Abiy Ahmed was elicited in 2018 he has killed many Oromos in the past 2 years. Oromos is the biggest ethnic group in Ethiopia. There was one story one of Abiy Ahmed soldiers shot and killed a Oromo citizen and left the body the for the nearby animals to eat,just cause was Oromo. And the worst thing Abiy Ahmed did was kill the best musician,the one person who is brave enough to speak out about what Abiy Ahmed is doing. Huchalu Hundessa.It was the middle of the night and he dropped of his sister in law at her home and came back and was shot outside his own home. The woman who planned the assassination with a few other people. A few minutes later the woman who planned the assassination called the ambulance and said "someone" shot him. Later pronounced dead at the hospital. Those two people who i wrote about are just two out of 200. This is what Abiy Ahmed has been doing so far the past 2 years. 2600:6C44:E80:6F:684D:1B24:961:B10A (talk) 03:08, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Also, next time also provide WP:RELIABLE sources for your claims and requests ~ Amkgp 💬 11:54, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2020

Abiy Ahmed was born in the town of Beshasha, located near Agaro, Oromia.[7][8][9][10] His deceased father, Ahmed Ali, was a Muslim Oromo[11] (and had four wives[12]), while his deceased mother, Tezeta Wolde,[13] was an Orthodox[14] Christian Oromo.[15][16] Bdesdes (talk) 16:31, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not what the sources say. – Thjarkur (talk) 16:45, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested improvements to the "Transparency" section

Going to add the below paragraph to the "Transparency" sections, feel free to improve it. (Furthermore, I don't think "Transparency" section should be under "Domestic policy", or should it?). Hi @Materialscientist:, is it okay if I add the below? (Thought I ask you since you are the last editing Admin of on page.) Loves Woolf1882 (talk) 19:29, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

According to NGOs like Committee to Protect Journalists and Amnesty International, Abiy's government has since mid 2019 been arresting Ethiopian journalists and closing media outlets (except for ESAT-TV).[1][2][3][4] From the international media outlets, his government has suspended the press license of Reuters's correspondent, and they have issued a warning letter to the correspondents of both BBC and Deutsche Welle for what the government described as "violation of the rules of media broadcasting".[5]

References

  1. ^ "Ethiopia: Release detained journalists and opposition politicians immediately". Amnesty International. Retrieved 12 December 2020.
  2. ^ "Ethiopian authorities arrest Addis Standard editor Medihane Ekubamichael". Committee to Protect Journalists. Retrieved 12 December 2020.
  3. ^ "Ethiopian journalist Yayesew Shimelis detained following COVID-19 report". Committee to Protect Journalists. Retrieved 12 December 2020.
  4. ^ "In era of reform, Ethiopia still reverts to old tactics to censor press report". Committee to Protect Journalists. Retrieved 12 December 2020.
  5. ^ "Ethiopia suspends Reuters in-country correspondent's licence". Ahram online. Retrieved 12 December 2020. Ethiopian Broadcasting Authority (EBA) has suspended the press license of Reuters correspondent in the country Giulia Paravicini, for an unspecified amount of time after a warning letter was issued to the correspondent.The Authority said that the decision has been due to the "false and biased" reporting by the news agency's correspondent on Ethiopia's current affairs and coverage of the fighting in the Tigray region, which "misleads the world and causes international pressure to mount on Ethiopia." The Authority has also issued a warning letter to the correspondents of both BBC and Deutsche Welle for what it described as "violation of the rules of media broadcasting."

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 (talk • contribs) 05:28, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested addition to the "Internet shutdowns" section

Wanted to add the below line to the "Internet shutdowns" sections, feel free to improve it, before I do so, thank you. Loves Woolf1882 (talk) 12:54, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

His government will the cut internet as and when, "it's neither water nor air" have said Abiy.[1][2]

References

  1. ^ "Ethiopia will cut internet as and when, 'it's neither water nor air' - PM Abiy". Africanews. Retrieved 12 December 2020.
  2. ^ "Twitter backlash after Ethiopia PM's internet 'not water or air' threat". Africanews. Retrieved 12 December 2020.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 (talk • contribs) 00:28, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested NEW section addition "Political prisoners"

I suggest the addition of a news section called "Political prisoners", based on the following references and more:-

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 (talk • contribs) 06:32, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested NEW section addition "Postponement of the May 2020 general election"

I suggest the addition of a news section called about the "Postponement of the May 2020 general election". The regular May 2020 election was postponed several times, where the first was to August 2020. This was before COVID-19, then at last it was postponed due to COVID-19. Some references for this:-

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 (talk • contribs) 02:30, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Abiy_Ahmed&oldid=1003388140"