Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law

Looking for help!!

Hey Y'all,

I started a page and need help editing and adding to it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Lawson_v._Commonwealth_(1942)

Criminal sentencing in the United States needs a lot of work

See my comments on the article's talk page. (Also posted to Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Wikipedia:WikiProject United States.) Joriki (talk) 06:06, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Depp v. Heard and Depp v News Group Newspapers Ltd

Hello project law. Some experienced extra editors would be helpful in keeping those two trial pages in line with the standards of the project.

They are currently assessed as C-Class and Start-Class and both as "Low Importance". Given the vast media coverage maybe the importance of the second case Depp v. Heard should be raised to be in line with the O. J. Simpson murder case which is "Medium".

Depp v. Heard has attracted almost a record of almost 200.000 views in a single day and has appeared in the Wikipedia:Top 25 Report 3 times: April 24 to 30, 2022 - May 29 to June 4, 2022 - June 5 to 11, 2022

Since the matter is not over I think raising the quality of the articles would be important for future readers. {{u|Gtoffoletto}}  ^talk 13:11, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

ADA and WPN

do Assistant District Attorneys meet notability criteria by default, the way elected members of the legislature do?

(If not, I'll need to locate more sources.) DS (talk) 21:29, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

oh, and I'm also finding descriptions of this individual as "Assistant US Attorney", if that makes a difference? DS (talk) 21:40, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Nah, they'd need to meet the GNG—legislators (and judges) have a special carve-out at WP:NPOL, but that wouldn't apply to assistant district attorneys/Assistant United States Attorneys. (Asst. U.S. Attorneys, aka federal prosecutors, work for the federal government, while asst. district attorneys work for the state/local government.) I can't think of many people who would be notable based solely on their role as an asst. U.S. attorney since it's a pretty unremarkable civil-service position (most of the entries at Category:Assistant United States Attorneys are notable mainly for something else, such as being a judge/judicial nominee/full United States Attorney), but I suppose it's possible that people who worked on particularly prominent cases might attract GNG-qualifying press coverage. Hopefully this is helpful; feel free to let us know who exactly you're talking about and I'd be glad to take a look. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Barent Ten Eyck (1902/3 in Newark - 1969 in Salisbury, CT), whose career included "chief assistant to Thomas Dewey" (in which role he prosecuted Lucky Luciano), head of the Fraud Bureau, assistant Corporation Counsel for the City of New York, General Counsel for the ACLU, and mayoral campaign manager for Newbold Morris. DS (talk) 23:41, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

I found obituaries in The New York Times plus other outlets, and there's a fair amount coverage from his career (e.g. this NYT article; this; this), so I'd say he probably passes the GNG. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 00:12, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Interesting paper on the impact of Wikipedia's law articles

There's a new paper out which might be of interest to this WikiProject. Lawyers wrote articles on Irish Supreme Court cases (a topic which we have very poor coverage of) and analyzed how these affected later decisions by Irish courts. They found that the existence of a Wikipedia article increased case citations by about 25%. — Wug·a·po·des​ 22:50, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, Wugapodes, perfect reading now that I'm heading to bed :) Hope you've had a good summer so far — Ixtal ^{( T / C )} ⁂ Join WP:FINANCE! 23:12, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I meant to post this here but I am on holiday and it got away. I am one of the authors of the study. We want to thank this wikiproject because you gave us valuable feedback when I reached out a couple years ago. Our study looks at Ireland because there were virtually no articles for its supreme Court--made measuring the effect easier. However, we suspect that u.s. and u.k. judges are also using wikipedia. If you have any questions let me know (although two of my colleagues authors did the quantitative work). AugusteBlanqui (talk) 23:34, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

You can see some reactions to the paper in the August issue of The Signpost. ☆ Bri (talk) 05:11, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

I've got some critiques if you like :D.

(Obvious praise for the meticulous and objective nature of the study).

The justification for the fact that judges and clerks were following wikipedia was that common language was used. I'm not sure about this conclusion without more detail.

It could be that the wikipedia articles *and* the new judgment are following the wording in the original judgment which explains the correlation, without wikipedia influencing the wording.

I'm not sure that shared wording actually indicates that the reasoning has not been checked. From my own experience citing articles, I may apply quite heavy scrutiny to a line of reasoning, but then, if I agree with it in the writing up process paraphrase those sources which I agree with.

I don't know if a common vocabulary of words indicates a common argument structure - though am not sure what metrics would be better here. It could just be that the words are the same but the argument is quite differenct.

I'm not sure that the cited cases are actually driving the decision making of the case. There is a mode of thinking where you reach a conclusion then find cases that justify your existing argument or decision, or just do a review of similar cases so as to make sure that you haven't make a mistake. Of course, any people who then reference your case may make use of this discussion, but it isn't necessarily driving decision making.

The suggestion in the conclusion of "supervising editors" makes me a bit nervous about "professional overreach". It seems wrong for the solution to supreme courts judges potentially not objectively assessing cases themselve should be give the legal profession control over any writing on cases. It would seem simpler for the supreme court to just do their own analysis. Professions have their own types of biases and manipulations (which tend to be do with conformity and deference) and it seems rather wrong to remove one of the biggest antidotes to this which is wikipedia. I'd be less negative towards the idea of producing "blessed" versions of the wikipedia articles that have been reviewed by an editor. I'm also sort of aware that if there were good quality scholarly work that contextualizes a case, then the wikipedia article should ideally already be citing this. Talpedia (talk) 03:46, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Article of interest

Bushel's Case might be interesting to take to GA if there are editors out there willing to do so. — Ixtal ^{( T / C )} ⁂ Join WP:FINANCE! 08:26, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Society for the Right to Die and Concern for Dying

Hello all,

I recently created articles on the US organisations Society for the Right to Die and Concern for Dying, which may of interest to members of this WikiProject.

Any additional eyes on these articles would be greatly appreciated, as I am not an expert in the topic matters at hand - these groups just seemed notable to me. QueenofBithynia (talk) 21:49, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:History of the Constitution of Chile#Requested move 5 August 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:History of the Constitution of Chile#Requested move 5 August 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 05:10, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Swiss Federal Constitution#Requested move 3 August 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Swiss Federal Constitution#Requested move 3 August 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 05:10, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Counties of Leix and Offaly Act 1556#Requested move 8 August 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Counties of Leix and Offaly Act 1556#Requested move 8 August 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 05:14, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Russian constitution (disambiguation)#Requested move 8 August 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Russian constitution (disambiguation)#Requested move 8 August 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 05:15, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Giffords Center update help

Hi WikiProject Law. I made some suggestions to update/correct the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, and was wondering if a reviewer(s) from this project was able to take a look since the article is about a legal research center. I have a conflict of interest, so I can't edit the article directly myself. The requests that need review are here Talk:Giffords_Law_Center_to_Prevent_Gun_Violence#Updates_to_Improve_Article_-_June_14,_2022. Thanks.Brooklyn1576 (talk) 17:39, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Administrative law#In common law countries needs more non-US content

This section and its examples have been flagged since 2015 as "deal primarily with the United States and do not represent a worldwide view of the subject" - someone might like to have a look at it? (It has had a recent peak in pageviews as it was the target of the latest "Redactle" puzzle!) I considered just copying (with acknowledgement) the leads of the four articles which are linked with {{Main}} but thought someone else could probably do a better job. PamD 07:06, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Editing Law Pages

Curious on how often you edit pages? What makes you want to edit them? What makes you not want to edit them? What are the biggest hurdles in getting more people to edit wiki law articles or creating wiki law articles?

We are doing some research on what it would take to get more lawyers/ legal minded people on wiki to edit/create pages...any info would be great Snh3394 (talk) 18:37, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Who is 'we'? AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I'll jump in here. I'm the law professor heading up the project. A small group of law students and I are exploring strategies for getting more lawyers to edit Wikipedia. We're in the early stages (mostly just learning how to edit Wikipedia ourselves), so we're very open to ideas. Some ideas we're throwing around: (1) get law firms to announce that editing Wikipedia will count as pro bono hours, (2) provide continuing legal education credit for learning how to edit law articles, (3) creating an appealing "how to" guide for editing law articles.

Any help would be very much appreciated! Lawprawf (talk) 19:08, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I think the general reasons to edit Wikipedia apply with more or less equal force to lawyers: Sharing knowledge, making the world a better place, correcting inaccuracies. I don't edit as much as I would like, primarily because there are other things going on in my life, particularly practicing law.

I'm sure that more lawyers would edit if their firms counted editing as creditable hours. I don't know how many firms might be inclined to do this. Usually pro bono publico activities are along the lines of providing legal services to underserved communities in some fashion. As for giving credit as a writing activity, that seems unlikely, since it is hard to see how editing Wikipedia will help a firm's marketing. My own experience is that, even though I edit under my real name and have done so for years, there has never been the slightest suggestion that this might lead to new business in any way.

A "how to" guide for editing law articles would be very helpful to both Wikipedia and its editors, so if there is interest in doing that, I would certainly like to see it. John M Baker (talk) 22:24, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, John. Sorry for such a delayed response, but I'd love to throw a couple of questions your way.

(1) Do you (or anyone else you know) include information about Wikipedia edits on your resume? I'm thinking about adjunct teaching. Quite a few lawyers sign up to teach a law school class, and they certainly aren't doing it for the pay! Some of the motivation is almost certainly altruistic, and I imagine it's also just kind of fun for some people. But I think one motivation is the line on the resume. I wonder if Wikipedia edits are/could be similar.

(2) We are trying to put together a CLE course to teach lawyers how to edit Wikipedia, but we'd like to push further on the CLE front. In some states, I know that publishing in professional journals can count for CLE credit. Have you ever heard of someone getting CLE credit for creating/editing a Wikipedia article?

Thanks! And I'll make sure to keep you posted on the progress we make in creating a "How To" guide. Lawprawf (talk) 14:17, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Commonwealth postnominals

In light of the death of her Elizabeth II, all commonwealth postnominals QC are forthwith KC. I will commence changing in Australia, anyone else please feel free to assist. MaxnaCarta (talk) 04:34, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Please do not change the postnominals for those that are dead - the change is not retrospective. I don't believe it applies to retired barristers. Find bruce (talk) 06:07, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Help with updating Latham & Watkins article

There is a RfC pending, Talk:Latham & Watkins#RfC: History section regarding Russian clients, concerning a paragraph regarding Russian clients in the article about RfC: History section regarding Russia Latham & Watkins. Members of this WikiProject might find it to be of interest. Thanks. DigitalMedia11 (talk) 00:24, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Holmby Productions, Inc. v. Vaughn

Hello, WikiProject,

I think this AFD discussion would benefit from editors with a legal background who could weigh in on whether or not this case was consequential. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:11, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Profit-sharing pension plan#Requested move 17 September 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Profit-sharing pension plan#Requested move 17 September 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 13:54, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!

Hello, Please note that Islamic sexual jurisprudence, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of the Articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by — MusikBot talk 00:05, 3 October 2022 (UTC) on behalf of the AFI team

Requested move discussion at Talk:NAACP Lawsuit Against Donald J. Trump, Rudolph Giuliani, the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers#Requested move 30 September 2022

There is an requested move pending at Talk:NAACP Lawsuit Against Donald J. Trump, Rudolph Giuliani, the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers#Requested move 30 September 2022. Any members of this WikiProject can express their opinion to move or not to move the page. --2600:1700:9BF3:220:843E:7CB4:B014:18E9 (talk) 19:08, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

FAR for CSI effect

User:Buidhe has nominated CSI effect for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:16, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Edelson Updates

I made a proposal for some updates to the Edelson article a few months ago, which might be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Unfortunately, the Request Edits Queue seems to be stuck right now, and since I have a conflict of interest I won’t make any changes to the page myself. Is anyone in this Project interested in taking a look at these proposals, by any chance? Thanks very much. Mtd6596 (talk) 20:51, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Separate or combined "Judge X" and "Justice X" disambiguation pages?

Seeking input regarding whether it is preferred to have separate disambiguation pages for cases such as Justice Smith and Judge Smith, or combine them if the combined page is not too long? It seems like both approaches are currently in use. My feeling is that these should generally be combined in cases with fewer than ~10 entries. Perhaps there is some previous discussion or consensus on this? It would be helpful if this could be documented somewhere, perhaps on the WP:LAW page. Mdewman6 (talk) 02:25, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

A justice is technically one kind of judge, but a person coming before a federal court (or any court making that distinction) would never make the mistake of referring to the judge as "justice" or a justice as "judge". I wuold keep them separate as much as possible. They are two different titles. BD2412 T 02:48, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

It makes sense to me that longer pages should be separated and very short pages can be combined. Especially in the common situation where people have held both titles Judge and Justice at different times in their careers, and readers would encounter both Judge X and Justice X in written material, even if a person is more well-known with one title. Adumbrativus (talk) 05:56, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Input requested regarding merger of medical law into health law

I have created a proposal that medical law be merged into health law. Since the article topic falls within the subject matter area of WPLAW I invite anyone interested to contribute to the discussion. InsaneHacker (💬) 20:13, 21 October 2022 (UTC)