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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Sanskari (talk | contribs) at 18:17, 26 December 2023 (→‎Lack of neutrality in tone: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Deletion request

It is totally misleading and false information and can cause social problems and riots 2409:4060:294:67CA:0:0:98F:8A1 (talk) 07:53, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PLease read wp:afd, you can't ask for an article to be deleted on its talk page. Slatersteven (talk) 09:57, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This page is very misleading in nature. Violence has been perpetrated against Hindus as well or any other religion for that matter. Associating violence with religion fails humanity and further creates divide. Sashwat0707 (talk) 16:28, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How is it misleading, do we say there is only violence against slims please quote where we say that? Slatersteven (talk) 16:31, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You do understand that by omitting that violence was done against Hindus too, acts in favour of you expressing that only Islam suffered. Please stop hiding behind the words and put in all the fact, if not, then dont put any. 2405:201:D01C:2045:2450:4579:281B:E9B6 (talk) 20:13, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We don't Persecution of Hindus. Slatersteven (talk) 20:29, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Genocide?

Is the use of the term "genocide", based on a single off-the-cuff mention in a 50 year old source by someone who is not a genocide scholar tenable? I don't think so. 117.194.204.22 (talk) 05:18, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Removed. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:18, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nellie massacre

Does Nellie massacre belong in this article? It was not a religious conflict and Kimura 2013 says specifically that it dd not fit the pattern of the "communal riot". It was one of many inter-ethnic violence during a very violent period. I could explain this here is more detail and references here in the talk page. Chaipau (talk) 11:23, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Nellie massacre was an anti-immigration riot, not anti-Muslim. This massacre happened in the context of the Assam Movement, particularly in the context of the 1983 elections. Nellie was one incident among various others that saw
(1) Assamese against Hindu Bengalis:

The Assamese raid on Bengali Hindus of Koirabari is less talked about but equally heinous. Times of India reported it only on 7 March even though it took place on 13 February.

[1]
(2) Assamese Muslims against immigrant Muslims:

The 1983 violence also saw clashes between Assamese Muslims and immigrant muslims. A case in point was that of Jamuguri, by river Jia Bharali in Darrang district.

[2]
That it was an example of anti-immigrant riot is stated clearly both Picharoty (2019) and Kimura (2013):

On doing so what emerges is another pattern of violence, which Kimura too highlighted in her book. ... What happened in Nellie was consequently an anti-migration riot, the likes of which had not been seen in the country till then.

[3]
I shall remove this section from this article if there is no objection.
Chaipau (talk) 18:17, 13 December 2022 (UTC) (edited) 18:21, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • We need to establish that the preponderance of sources discuss this as something other than a religious riot, not just one or two sources. I offer no opinion as yet if that's the case, but we need to examine the whole body of scholarly work. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:20, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Vanamonde93: this is tricky, since it plays into some current political interests: regarding the Koirabari raid (also February 1983) where the Assamese attacked Bengali Hindus, claiming 500 lives

    Regarding that incident Shekhar Gupta wrote, 'A few days after the killings, K Sudershan, the Bauddhik Pramukh (intellectual chief) of the RSS, along with four of the key functionaries in Assam, sat in my hotel room in Gauhati in a mournful mood and bitterly criticised the Assamese for refusing to make a distinction between "Muslim infiltrators and Hindu refugees".

    [4] and

    ...the New Delhi representatives of national political parties and the Muslim right-wing organizations spreading themselves in Assam then treated the Nellie massacre only as a Hindu-Muslim riot. While it gave a hande to the political parties to polarize votes, it enabled the Muslim right wing to penetrate into the immigrant community of the state far more than before...

    Just putting this out so everyone can see. The demand that all "scholars" will have to agree this as being anti-immigration will not happen, and yet Wikipedia will be playing into a political effort that is still current. Pinging TrangaBellam. Chaipau (talk) 20:14, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    And since we will not get unanimity of scholars in this regard, let us hear what the Nellie survivors have reported as the cause of the massacre.

    From these statements it is obvious that the villagers view he massacre basically as a revenge for their participation in the election. Also, when asked about the confrontation with the local people all of them replied that before the movement started there was no trouble between them and the local people, such as the Tiwas and the Assamese.

    [5]
    Chaipau (talk) 20:19, 13 December 2022 (UTC) Chaipau (talk) 20:19, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    We don't need unanimity, but we need broad agreement to present something in Wikipedia's voice. If there isn't consensus, the Nellie massacre should presumably remain, but with the disagreement noted. No idea what political interests we're playing or not playing into here, but it ought not to be a consideration if the sources are reliable. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:18, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I will be happy to look for the 1983 election violence (and Nellie massacre) being called a Hindu-Muslim clash, but I haven't found any so far. Could you help look for it? Please note that we will need an equal amount of critical analysis arguing why the Nellie massacre was a Hindu-Muslim conflict and why it was not an anti-migration conflict (WP:WEIGHT). Just some pass-by mention (the Hindus attacked the Muslims or that it was a "communal" clash) will not work. Chaipau (talk) 21:42, 13 December 2022 (UTC) (edited) 22:27, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Vanamonde93: there are major gaps in Wikipedia regarding the context of the Nellie massacre. I shall try to fill them up before coming back to this again at a later time. Thanks. Chaipau (talk) 16:37, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Pisharoty (2019, p. 108)
  2. ^ Pisharoty (2019, p. 108)
  3. ^ Pisharoty (2019, p. 110)
  4. ^ Pisharoty (2019, p. 108)
  5. ^ Kimura (2013, p. 120)
  • Kimura, Makiko (2013). The Nellie Massacre of 1983: Agency of Rioters. Sage Publications India. ISBN 9788132111665.
  • Pisharoty, Sangeeta Barooah (2019). Assam: the Accord, the Discord. Gurgaon: Penguin Random House.

Merge request

This request that lacks any reason. The subject heavily meets WP:GNG that's why a 'merge' is not possible. Capitals00 (talk) 04:20, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

{{Merge|Persecution of Muslims | date = July 2023 }}

150.129.164.195 (talk) 08:54, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Slatersteven (talk) 12:20, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Lack of neutrality in tone

Violence against Muslims in Independent India has faced criticism for not adhering to the Five Pillars of Wikipedia. Concerns include a lack of neutrality in tone, selective sourcing that may be biased, and an absence of balance in presenting diverse perspectives. To uphold Wikipedia's credibility, editors are encouraged to address these issues by incorporating a more balanced representation and diverse sources. — Sanskari Hangout 17:09, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanamonde93: Reverting without furnishing a substantiated rationale is a relatively straightforward task. The entirety of the article is grounded in discourse. Moreover, this assertion is corroborated by the findings of the preceding two Articles for Deletion (AfD) instances that align with the observation I have elucidated. I had concentrated on WP:TALKPOV within the context of WP:TALK#FACTS via WP:TALK#DISCUSS. — Sanskari Hangout 17:57, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, your recent edits/contributions indicate WP:COI with a specific religion community. — Sanskari Hangout 18:02, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you have actual evidence, in the form of material in reliable sources that isn't covered in the article, please present it here. If you have evidence that I am violating Wikipedia's policies or guidelines, please bring it to WP:AN or WP:ARBCOM; or else stop making such allegations, because without evidence they constitute personal attacks. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Have you not expunged the dependable link from The Times of India on the talk page? Was that not an authoritative source? Do not your recent edits and contributions suggest a predilection towards a particular community? I remain unacquainted with you on a personal level and withhold any subjective judgments. My observations are confined to highlighting certain expunged facts. Furthermore, rather than addressing the specific comment, you precipitately inferred that I am formulating a personal attack. I have additionally highlighted the existence of both Islamic and non-Islamic states globally, asserting that proliferating articles on "Violence against Muslims" in each state may lead Wikipedia to degradation. Prior to the conferral of Wikipedia administration rights, it is presumed that you underwent an extensive review of numerous FAQs and engaged in pertinent discussions. Was there not a guideline promoting a disposition of kindness towards fellow editors? — Sanskari Hangout 18:17, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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