Talk:Lloyd Monserratt

Good Article

Should really check to see whether this article meets B standards first. Good luck trying to improve this article to eventually achieve GA. Cydperez 21:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks. --evrik 22:45, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

This article is not yet at the GA level. First of all the reference links for the first two references dont really hyperlink to anything useful. The first one is an entirely non-working link and the second is a link to "today's" LA Times. There are serious gaps and omissions. For example, there is no discussion about the circumstances of his death. The omission of discussion of his obesity is both a serious gap and also a NPOV transgression. As Cydperex points out, there is only one image, apparently from his younger days. Since his appearance changed so much later in his life, another image is almost mandatory. Finally regarding wikification (which should be well done in a GA), i counted four major oversights in unwikified terms in the first third of the article, which links would have been high context wiki-links; i gave up counting at that point. Cdcdoc 15:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

• well, aside from the snarky tone, I appreciate the criticisms.
  • About the references ... the articles are no longer available online, unless you have lexus nexis, but the dates and other pertinent information is all correct.
  • The Gastric_bypass_surgery#Mortality was in an edition a long time ago, I must have missed it getting edited out.
  • Photos ... getting PD images has been difficult. The photo posted was taken five years before his death, so I don't know what to say about "his appearance changed so much later in his life" Would you say the same about the article for Howard Hughes? ;-)
  • Wikification ... I'll work on that.

--evrik 22:45, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

• I have tried to integrate as mnay of the comments as possible. I have done a fair amount of wikification, I even used ex post facto! evrik

Comments

Suggestions for cleaning up this page? evrik 16:23, 9 September 2005

Villaraigosa

In 2001 Monserratt was involved in a controversial telephone campaign against mayoral candidate Antonio Villaraigosa wherein a woman impersonated Gloria Molina. District Attorney Steve Cooley investigated the incident and concluded that no laws were broken.

In 2001, Monserratt was involved in a controversial telephone campaign against mayoral candidate Antonio Villaraigosa wherein an individual impersonated Gloria Molina. After looking into the incident District Attorney Steve Cooley, though critical of the campaign tactic, concluded that no laws had been broken.

I removed these unsourced lines. Monserratt was nver charged with any crime and was exonerated of any wrong-doing. A more NPOV insertion with sources may be appropriate, but not this one. --evrik 01:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

This text was attributed to this article

As reported in LA Weekly (5/30/2001), Monserratt admitted to District Attorney Steve Cooley his involvement in a controversial telephone campaign wherein someone impersonating Gloria Molina disparaged the voting record of mayoral candidate Antonio Villaraigosa. Though critical of the tactic, Cooley concluded that no laws had been broken.

Haefele, Mark (2001-05-30). "The New Alignment". LA Weekly.

How about a more neutral paragraph. --evrik 19:36, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't see how you can get much more neutral than that without going POV.--SarekOfVulcan 19:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

How about this:

Monserratt was involved in local Los Angeles politics. In 2001, while on leave from Pacheco’s office to run the campaign of Ed Reyes for 1st District seat of the city council, Monserratt was involved in a small campaign scandal. Monserratt ran the phone-bank computers contracted to the mayoral campaign of Xavier Becerra. The campaign ran a tape of someone impersonating Gloria Molina disparaging the voting record of mayoral candidate Antonio Villaraigosa. Though no laws had been broken, this action tarnished the reputations of all involved.Haefele, Mark (2001-05-30). "The New Alignment". LA Weekly.

--evrik 20:14, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Status of this article

This article is POV and OR and barely makes the grade as a Start Class article. Please do not alter ratings without detailed analysis and justification. Without supplying sources to many flamboyant statements the page is certainly a candidate for afD. Anlace 14:42, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

• I'll leave my comments on your page. --evrik 16:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Failed GA nomination

• Another picture or two, if available would help the article. (optional)
• Image caption is vague. Please expand it.
• The second lead paragraph is definitely on the short side. As per WP:LEAD, having three lead paragraphs in an article this short is not recommended. I'd suggest that the first two be combined and the short sentences (like He was an Eagle Scout.) be combined with some good prose.
• Shouldn't there be an 'of' somewhere in here?
  • Paragraph 3: 'He trained a number future Latino...'
• The 'Early political activism' section is far too short. This is a {{section-stub}}. Consider expanding this section substantially, as removing it entirely will greatly reduce its quality.
  • Missing comma: "At age 9 his father brought..."
• 'Student leadership at UCLA' section: consider two smaller subcategories or combining some short paragraphs.
  • Remove italics and relink: "Third World Coalition"
  • Missing article: "...put forth by members of Greek system..."
  • Unneeded comma: "...over his academic qualifications, and denied office."
  • Capitalization of an unproper noun: "...candidates for President, certifying..."
  • Unclear: "...Election Board, apply their own..."
  • Rephrase: "After USAC ex post facto declared Monserratt ineligible..."
  • Bracket, not parenthesis: "(from the University of California)"
  • Replace 'the' with 'that': "...said the UCLA's administration was partly responsible..."
• 'Community action' section: Expand with more commentary. Section already contains plenty of quotations.
• Include full team names: "...cheer on the Bruins or the Dodgers...."
• Alphabetize 'See Also' section
• 'Notes' section should be renamed 'References'.
• Consider a two-column layout for the references section. (optional)
• Consider using the infomation in 'External links' and cite as sources. (optional)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   a (fair representation): b (all significant views):

5. It is stable.

   

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

   a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):

7. Overall:

   a Pass/Fail:

This article will require major revision and expansion before qualifying for GA status. Best of luck and feel free to contact me if you have any questions. thadius856_talk 07:52, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Other references

Here are some more references that can be folded into the article:

• "Senator Boxer Joins Victims of Medical Negligence To Support Prop 46: New Spanish Yes on 46 TV Ad Released, Says Consumer Watchdog Campaign". Consumer Watchdog Campaign. 2014-10-21. Archived from the original on 2018-01-08 – via prnewswire.com.
• "Friends of Boyle Heights and the Boyle Heights Technology Youth Center presented Congresswoman Lucille Roybal-Allard with the center's Bridge Award". Congresswoman Lucille Roybal-Allard. 2009-05-09.
• "State of California Allows Impaired Physician to Continue to Practice". Salem-News.com. 2009-12-06. Archived from the original on 2018-01-08.

--evrik ^(talk) 21:34, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

I removed this citation because it was repetitive: "State Scorecard". Time Magazine. November 1996. Archived from the original on 2004-02-06. Retrieved 2004-02-06. --evrik ^(talk) 01:38, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Some more references:

• "SOUTHEAST AREA : School Activists May Push for Secession". Los Angeles Times. 1994-03-06.
• "Pacheco's Last Hurrah Is a Budget Roar". Los Angeles Times. 2003-06-13.
• "UCLA Unrest : Minority Students Protest Administration's Racial 'Attacks'". Los Angeles Times. 1988-06-05.
• "Panel Told of Race, Sex Bias at UC Campuses". Los Angeles Times. 1988-10-05.
• "Heavy Security Marks Balloting at UCLA". Los Angeles Times. 1988-06-03.
• "Meehan Wins UCLA Election". Los Angeles Times. 1988-06-04.

--evrik ^(talk) 02:48, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

External links modified

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lloyd Monserratt/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Larry Hockett (talk · contribs) 22:34, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

I'll be happy to review this nomination. I will have more specific feedback shortly, but at a glance I am concerned that some of the November 2006 GA review feedback hasn't been implemented. GA reviews were somewhat different back then (it looks like the review was provided on the article talk page rather than on a dedicated GA review page), but there are a number of good suggestions there on items like grammar and punctuation (examples: no italics in Third World Coalition, missing article in "of Greek system", and unnecessary article in "the UCLA's administration"). I don't think it's necessary to quick fail this nomination, even if it could be justified under WP:GAFAIL #5. However, moving forward I would expect the nominator to address the review feedback quickly so that we can work through some longstanding problems. Larry Hockett (Talk) 22:34, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Lead

• The lead is inadequate to summarize the body of the article; another paragraph (focusing on his career after UCLA) should do the trick.

• No comma needed after the date of death since you have parentheses.

• "subsequently ruled ineligible to hold office" - even in the lead, we need some brief indication of why he was said to be ineligible

• In the image caption, go with "Monserratt circa 1999" or even just "Circa 1999" since we know it's a picture of this article subject.

Early life

• The information about Monserratt's early life doesn't seem to be supported by what is now reference #1.
• I'm unclear as to what reference #2 represents. Was this a publication produced by the troop itself?
• Linking to El Cid is questionable to me. Regardless of the inspiration for the bookstore's name, it doesn't really help the reader to read about a Spanish warlord from a thousand years ago.

Thanks to the nominator for the work that has gone into this entry already. More feedback to come. Larry Hockett (Talk) 23:01, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Student leadership at UCLA

• First paragraph: Very little of this content is supported by the cited source. Will probably need a partial rewrite.
• Even if we can find supporting sources for the content, rephrase to avoid using Coalition so much.
• We can take out the wikilinks to common words - not needed for student, Third World, or coalition.
• "dispute over his academic qualifications" - The dispute apparently didn't lead to him being declared ineligible; the source says he was removed from the ballot for a low GPA and too few credit hours, and this caused a dispute.
• "Prior to the election, the student Election Board had approved the applications ..." - The rest of this seems unsourced.
• "After USAC ex post facto declared Monserratt ineligible" - This doesn't seem to be supported by the LA Times article (now ref #6); the article said Monserratt alleged that the school lost paperwork from an independent study course that would have given him the necessary GPA and credits. This is different from an ex post facto issue.
• Fourth paragraph: "heated rally" and "near riot" aren't really neutral/helpful descriptors. The sources seem to indicate that the protestors turned over ballot boxes, tore down voting booths, and exchanged punches with election officials.
• Fifth paragraph ("At the time ...") - I can't access the LA Times link, but I am looking up the article title on newspapers.com and what I am finding doesn't mention UCLA or support the direct quote. The newspapers.com link corresponds to the date and article title, but it is on page B4, not page 4, and I am not sure what Part 2 means. Are we looking at different editions of the paper?
• "After a change of control two years later ..." - You might just say that two years after he was declared ineligible, Monserratt was recognized as the rightful winner of the election (the bit about "change of control" is a little confusing to read and some change of control would be expected for a student government after two years at a college).
• Regarding his picture currently hanging in the president's office, see WP:WTW about the use of current. The cited source doesn't seem to support that content, but even if it did, it is 18 years old, so it's a stretch to call it current.

Political

• "Monserratt honed the political organizing skills learned at UCLA" - This isn't very encyclopedic.
• Reference #13 (Black Press USA) is a dead URL; even the archive link is dead.

To be continued. Larry Hockett (Talk) 00:33, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Political (cont'd)

• "A noted campaign manager..." - Gephardt wasn't the campaign manager, so rework the grammar here.
• That sentence is supported by the dead link mentioned above, so I can't tell whether "noted" is appropriate or not, or whether they gave Monserratt credit for the six victories.
• "His personal style was to..." - The cited source doesn't speak much to his personal style or to work behind the scenes.
• "Though Morales lost..." - This sentence is problematic for two reasons: 1) close paraphrasing and 2) this is basically Monserratt telling us that Monserratt's work was important.
• Several issues regarding the phone bank stuff. The DA stated that no laws had been broken - much harder to say that none had actually been broken. Other sources are more direct in implicating Monserratt as the person responsible (instead of "the campaign ran a tape"). I don't think we can reliably say whose reputations were or were not tarnished.

Community action

• "He once said..." - The source does not support that as a direct quote. Even if he said it, it would be questionably appropriate for an encyclopedia.
• If there is a source for that as a direct quote, remember the closing quotation mark.
• In the last paragraph, those two sentences don't seem to fit together like a typical paragraph. (The self-pride quote doesn't seem to be directly related to being a leader or motivator.)

Death

• "His death sent a shock" - this isn't encyclopedic and I think we can leave it out. It would be surprising if someone's sudden death did not shock his or her colleagues.
• On the death itself, the explanation feels disorganized. We need a linear explanation. Something like this: "Monserratt went to the hospital for ____________ (type of surgery). He experienced ____________ and _______________ (complications) and died on ___________. His partner said that his death involved medical malpractice on the part of a physician with a history of substance abuse." Then maybe something about the legislation if Monserratt's family helped it to be signed into law.

Memorials

• It might be better to convert these bullet points into sentences, but honestly if you can get through all of this other feedback above, I won't hold up GA status over this one.

There is a lot of work to do here. The biggest issue is that, in several places, the sources don't support the content in our article. Once we rewrite some of these sentences to address this issue, that could bring up more work. I have noted close paraphrasing in at least one section, but I won't exhaustively search for that problem until we fix the issues above.

The GA process is intended to take about seven days, but that isn't a hard-and-fast rule. Let me know if you would rather close the nomination and work on this at your leisure before renominating it. Larry Hockett (Talk) 01:55, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm closing this nomination, as we are about ten days into the review with no response to the feedback. It can be nominated again once an editor is willing to address the feedback. Larry Hockett (Talk) 09:51, 27 February 2021 (UTC)