Talk:Super Mario RPG/Archive 1

Last game square made for Nintendo?

"...[it] was the last Square-produced game for a Nintendo video game console until 2003, with the debut of Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles for the Nintendo GameCube."

Could someone get confirmation for this? The Squaresoft page indicates that they released several games for the Game Boy Advance (also a Nintendo video game console) in 2003, and that Chrystal Chronicles came out in 2004. Apparently, Crystal Chronicles came out in Japan in 2003, and in the United States in 2004; so, did any of Squaresoft's games for the Game Boy Advance come out before Crystal Chronicles? --LostLeviathan 21:43, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Nintendo is a Japanese console, Mario is a Japanese character and Square is a Japanese company. So why should the Japanese release be ignored and the American release be counted as "the only true return of square to Nintendo"?. Now THAT'S out of the way, your question about GBA. FFCC on the Cube came out August 8, 2003. The next Nintendo release was a GBA game December 3, 2004 called "Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls", you may have heard of the Final Fantasy series. The next one was "Slime Mori Mori Dragon Quest: Shougeki no Shippo Dan" in December 10, 2003. The wifi was correct and it will stay that way. JayKeaton 18:36, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

All of those things are indeed Japanese, as is Treasure Hunter G, the actual last game released by Square for a Nintendo video game console. Kil 04:50, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

True, but Treasure Hunter G game wasn't, well, major by any means. In fact, the "The Ultimate History of Video Games" book, written by Steven L. Kent and published by Prima Communications Inc., claims that Super Mario RPG was the final game developed by Square for the SNES. I think we should take its word for it. User:Dragon DASH 18:34, 21 June 2006

The current version seems fine since it makes the distinction "major game". Still, I sort of feel that something more interesting and less dubious belongs in the opening paragraph. Kil ^(talk) 20:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Gateway Drug?

I don't believe that the term "gateway drug" should be used; I've replaced it with the meaningfully-equivalent "introductory. ~GMH

That's all well and good, but why not? Andre (talk) 01:35, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

I don't think its really necessary either without expounding on it more as to why it could be considered a gateway drug. To say its a good introduction to RPG games is one thing to say its a gateway drug implies addiction, which isn't always so. I've played some of this game and some of PM:TTYD and I'm not much of an RPG player. K1Bond007 05:00, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

I thought it was clear enough from the gateway drug article. Andre (talk) 18:47, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

I clearly understand the use of the term, I don't, however, feel its a necessary term to use. It doesn't really matter to me though, I'm just commenting here. :) K1Bond007 20:43, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the person who mentioned the implication of addiction, since role-play gaming is not something that can be counted as a true addiction, especially considering the way drugs become addictions.

Whoever thought up the use of "gateway drug" in this context needs to re-check his definition of a professional encyclopedia, thank you. Wisgary 01:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, it's rather silly. While gaming, roleplaying, or escapism can be addictive, it's hardly the kind of chemical drug most talk about. It's no more addictive than... happiness. Sex, exercise, praise and food are far more addictive I'd say. Tyciol 20:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

"Not a platformer" means...

The term "not a platformer" in the sentence "This game is not a platformer" means:

This game is not characterized by bottomless pits that the player must jump over to get past. Any more detail about the meaning of this sentence?? Georgia guy 15:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Biblical occurance

Super Mario & The Seven Stars? Chew on this! Revelation 1:20 talks about seven stars:

"As for the sacred secret of the seven stars that you saw upon my right hand, and of the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars mean the angles of the seven congregations, and the seven lampstands mean seven congregations."

Kundalini

Interesting... although I'm sure it's more of a coincidence. The seven stars concept has been around before this anyway hasn't it? With star road or something... Tyciol 20:00, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, it wasn't before, it was after, but regardless, any biblical connection is non-existant. It is just merely coincidence. AnujSuper9 00:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

PAL

Why wasn't this game released in Europe?

Why wasn't this game released in Europe? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.200.34.177 (talk • contribs) .

Probably for the same or similar reason about why Terranigma was never brought to America. -- ReyBrujo 19:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

"Because Enix no longer had an American subsidiary, and potentially also due to the impending release of the Nintendo 64, this game was not released in America, but was popular in Europe and Australia (published by Nintendo)." So does that mean that Square didn't have a branch in Europe at the time of Super Mario RPG's release? I think I got confused somewhere. Sir John Sack-and-Sugar 06:17, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars was released in Brazil, too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Guilherme M. Miranda (talk • contribs) .

Brazil's in South America @_@. Keiji Dragon 00:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

A question

Why wasn't the game released in the PAL region? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.181.139.197 (talkcontribs).

Because Nintendo thought the PAL region didn't like RPGs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.223.187.119 (talk • contribs) 22:57, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Encyclopedic content must be verifiable. Cite your sources. Taric25 06:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Time for an improvement drive.

Zeality has suggested improving this article. I've already started. We should make a goal to have FA or GA at some point. Sir Crazyswordsman 04:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, we badly need to add more references and add more info about gameplay. - Mamyles 01:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

If someone can add some storyline that would be great. The story description is very brief and i'd add more myself but i haven't played in years. Still i'll do what i can to help ---Nightengale989 19:41, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll expand the story section, as I'm currently replaying the game. -Wilfredo Martinez 06:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Move

Move-back

Why was this moved to the longer title? It's more well-known as "Super Mario RPG," which has 82,300 Google hits. The longer title has only 16,800. Andre (talk) 04:41, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Wouldn't Paper Mario and so on also be "Super Mario RPGs"? Besides, the official title is Super Mario RPG: The Legend of the Seven Stars, so I don't see why you'd want to use another name. I mean, I bet more people call Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time "Zelda" than by the full title, but that doesn't mean the article should be renamed accordingly (probably as many players think Link is really named Zelda, for that matter, as those who know otherwise). So I'd say leave it be.--Deridolus 20:16, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

You are both wrong, if there is no better (or others) page for Mario_RPG then MARIO_RPG should link straight to the longer title. Which it does. Thank you and good night JayKeaton 18:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Super Mario RPG:?

Shouldn't this be moved to Super Mario RPG or Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars? Random the Scrambled ^(?)(Vandalism and other nonsense!) 20:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Someone accidentally broke it, so it can't be moved to Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars without help from an admin. - A Link to the Past (talk) 21:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Go to WP:RM and list this under the "uncontroversial moves" section. TJ Spyke 23:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Move to Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars

Move: I think it would be best if we simply moved it to the full game title. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 01:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• Page moved, per request at WP:RM#Uncontroversial proposals. Cheers. -GTBacchus^(talk) 01:37, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Cultural references

Cultural references: a "trick"

"In addition, there are two Easter eggs in the Booster Tower area. One allows the player to control the original Mario as he appeared in Super Mario Bros. for a short time, while the second is a Samus figurine in the toy box of Booster's Room. A similar trick (as revealed in Nintendo Power) is also present in Paper Mario, as well as its sequel, Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door."

• What trick are we referring to? The first or second easter egg? I propose changing "A similar trick" to "The former/latter easter egg", but I don't know which is correct. --Daev 16:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm assuming he means the first one, the 'classic Mario' trick, as I don't recall seeing Samus in any of the Paper Mario games, and I DO recall controlling old-school Mario... plus, the cameo isn't really a 'trick', per se, just a little thing included to amuse observant people. So I'm assuming that it was assumed that you'd just assume it was the first one. ;-) 1337 r0XX0r 20:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Cultural references in Development?

I don't see how this is logical. Cultural references aren't a part of game development. It should be its own section or integrated into the article. Taric25 23:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I do not support TTN nearly blanking of the Cultural references, because it does not reflect consensus, however, I do support RobJ1981, because the section does contain too much trivia. Instead, we should incorporate the references to specific sections of the Story. Besides, it would help spruce up the Story with pictures, and Cultural references is overflowing, however, the Wikipedia articles refrence specific sections here, so we should be mindful of that and update their links, when we change this section. Taric25 23:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Consensus is not needed for editing sections. If it was, how the hell does anything get done on this site? Consensus comes from group forming a common opinion, not Person B not liking Person A's edit. It's fine to say you don't like the edit, but don't use the "doesn't reflect consensus" bull. I see that used way too much.

Anyways, in dealing with the secion, it should be axed. Most of the stuff is unimportant and trivial. The majority is unreferenceable crap that doesn't need mention. I wouldn't be surprised if most of it could be counted as OR(like Culex). Are there any featured or good articles that link to this article? I'm guessing only ones with trivia sections do, so that's pretty pointless. If the some of the info is found to be necessary, follow the format of a featured article or something. Nemu 11:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to respond any time... Nemu 15:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

TTN, first of all, please keep a cool head. I understand you have a different perspective, but there is no reason to use words such as "hell", "crap", and "bull". If you feel that the information is unimportant, then please say so in a constructive manner. Second, to answer your question, yes, featured articles such as Link (The Legend of Zelda) link to specific parts subsections of Cultural references. Third, consensus is needed for editing sections. Consensus is an official policy on Wikipedia. It has wide acceptance among editors and is considered a standard that all users should follow. When editing a page, please ensure that your revision reflects consensus. When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page. For example, when you make an edit, you are editing the previous consensus. To reach a new consensus, when you make an edit, if I edit the article further, and the edit change is a revert, and you do not agree with the revert, then take it to the talk page, discuss, find a reasonable (if temporary) compromise, and implement it by making an edit. If either one of us change that new edit, and we do not agree with the change, then we should think of a reasonable change to integrate our ideas with each other. That is how we build reasonable consensus, and that is not my opinion. I took everything I just said directly from Wikipedia:Consensus. Fourth of all, Cultural references in this article do have further references in the form of citations. Fifth of all, my edits with Cultural references were the previous consensus. For example, Agathoclea Reverted edits by 124.181.139.197 to the last version by me, because the edit of 124.181.139.197 for speedy deletion did not reflect consensus based on the reason: "This is a stupid game!" Thus, when editing the previous consensus, it is your responsibility to ensure that your revision reflects consensus. If it does not, then we must think of a reasonable change to integrate our ideas with each other to find a reasonable (if temporary) compromise. So, I suggest we integrate Cultural references with appropriate areas of Story. I believe it would help spruce it up the pictures. In addition, we should be mindful that other Wikipedia articles reference specific sections in Cultural references and update their links, when we change it. Furthermore, we need historical data, such as early reviews from gaming magazines, for example, to add to Development and not make it so focused on just the Debug Room. I have a lot of old Nintendo Power magazines, if anyone would like citations. Taric25 17:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I use those words in my normal speech, so sorry if you don't like them. There is a difference between consensus and you not liking the edit as I stated. My point was not to call for consensus every time you find the need to revert someone. It seems to be a bit on the side of wikilawyering. At this point, it's fine to discuss it, but really you didn't need to call it on the first revert.

The Legend of Zelda only links to this article not the section. Plus, it already states everything in that article. We can mention somewhere that Link and Samus appear, but we don't need a section dedicated to it.

Most of the things in that section are just pointless. All the names are trivial, and could easily be included under their section of the character page. The only decent things are Cluex, which needs definite sources to actually stay, and the two character cameos. Those can easily be mentioned in a few sentences with links to the character pages. The pictures are decorative, so they should also go. We can improve the sections later, for now lets focus on this. (Please use paragraphs next time.) Nemu 17:30, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry for not using paragraphs.

I looked at Link (The Legend of Zelda) , and you're right. It doesn't link to that section. I could have sworn I saw subsection links somewhere... Anyway, you're also right that it already states everything in that article, because I'm the one who stated it. As Wikipedia requires, we should not write in an in–universe style; the articles should contain that information as well. Furthermore, we should cannot briefly mention character appearances and depend on other articles to expand on that information, because articles such as Final Fantasy are already too large and can hardly handle it. (I am aware we are keeping the Culex reference, so I'm just using that as an example. If you would like another crossover example, take a look at the crossover of Bewitched#End_of_program and The Flintstones#Overview. Bewitched lists the appearance in The Flintstones, but the The Flintstones lists it as Season 6 Episode 6. Thus, I believe we should make the crossover examples similar but with small differences.)

Speaking of dependence on other articles, Wikipedia:WikiProject Tokusatsu is asking us for a better screenshot of the Axem Rangers. Adv193 suggests "due to the SNES's graphics and it is hard to see their faces". Thus I suggested,

We're having a nearly identical discussion in Talk:Super_Sentai, so you can go there, if you would like to read it, but point is, the section really does need an image, because we should show how other works depict Power Rangers, so which you rather see?

• A screenshot of the Axem Rangers next to Blade (the same screenshot, but their huge mecha looms over Barrel Volcano, showing how small the Axem Rangers are compared to their mecha) or
• A detailed screenshot of the Axem Rangers in battle. I could even have the their overhead textbox, "WE ARE THE AXEM RANGERS!!" in their battle stances (very typical of Super Sentai).

Also, when you say the Cultural references subsections need "definite sources to actually stay", what do you mean? Citations? Taric25 20:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

It's easy enough to just state in one sentence, that both Link and Samus make cameo appearances in the game. We really don't need to go any further than that. We then can link to either the character pages, or, if they have them, sections on the character list for details. Explaining how and why they show up is pretty pointless.

Yes, I mean citations from reliable sources. Culex is obviously a Final Fantasy reference, but it still needs a source to back up the thought. I still don't know if it needs to be mentioned in this article. I haven't seen one single section in any of the FA games that even mentions cultural references besides Final Fantasy X-2, which was only talking about localization. These things really are trivial (which is why mostly only trivia sections link to them).

I suggest we axe the section. We move any of the name stuff we can source to the character's section on the list. We can have a sentence talking about Samus and Link at some point, and just like somewhere. That seems like the cleanest and easiest way. Nemu 21:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

You asked me for citations. I provided them. Do not delete the section. Integrate it. I'll be back later. Taric25 01:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

It's impossible to integrate it into this article while still keeping the "quality" of the article. We need to put in the character article like I said in my summary(though I forgot to do it). I'm sorry, but most of this stuff is just junk. The only things worth keeping are small mentions of the cameos. That's it. It's all just trivia. Nemu 01:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying we have to keep all the information, but do not simply delete without putting the information elsewhere in the article, in some shape or form. Even if that form is reasonably shorter than the original, fine, but keep the citations. BTW, I did update all the citations, and was a lot of work. I own a lot of Nintendo Power magazines, and I mean a lot. I had do dig through a huge pile just to get one little paragraph to add here. In addition, every citation now has a quotation. When you simply delete all that work, especially after you asked me to get it, sufic'd to say, it's frustrating. If you want to put parts into character subsections that exist, then go for it; be bold and then discuss it here with an appropriate link, before you delete it. Taric25 03:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

BTW, you may be alone thinking that the sections are junk. For example, Tony Myers recently added to the Super Sentai and Power Rangers refrence. Speaking of the Super Sentai and Power Rangers refrence, Wikipedia:WikiProject Tokusatsu still wants that new image. I found http://tasvideos.org/402M.html, which is a time attack of the entire game. I downloaded the movie, and I'll try to retake some screenshots. Taric25 04:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, we have Final Fantasy - This is not necessary in this article. At one point, we may want to mention it even we push towards FA, but currently there's no suitable section for even a mention. It should just be on the character list.

The Legend of Zelda - The actual thing doesn't need to be mentioned here. Whenever we add a sentence about it, we can move a reference here from the character list.

Metroid - Same

F–Zero and Star Fox - The junk I was talking about. This is way, way to trivial to care about. Major cameos are fine, but no article will ever mention anything this pointless.

Donkey Kong - Same

Luigi - Belongs only on the character list. There's no need for it here.

Super Sentai and Power Rangers - Belongs only on the character list. There's no need for it here except maybe in part of a sentence like "...the Axem rangers, a PR reference...*ref*" Certainly no more than that.

The Three Musketeers - Belongs only on the character list. "The Three Musty Fears, whose name comes from the Three Musketeers..." is all it needs. In this article, it's junk. Super Mario Bros. - For the level, see F–Zero and Star Fox. For the sprite, we'll put it in the sequels section and talk about Paper Mario.

Bruce Lee - See F–Zero and Star Fox

The Threepenny Opera - See The Three Musketeers

Confucius and Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky - See The Three Musketeers

Silent protagonist - Doesn't need any mention past the character paragraph. The reference is pointless. We need a reference that he is a silent protagonist, not that a couple words were said.

There's my stance. Basically, nothing here needs to have more than a sentence, and only up to four of these even deserve that sentence. Disagree? Nemu 11:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, if you want to transfer the stuff to the character list, then go ahead, and please link to your changes on this talk page before you delete from this article.

Also, I don't understand why you ask me for citations if you delete them. I cited the script for "Formation...HO!!", because Axem Red's textbox does not appear in the screenshot. (If I included it, he would be cut off.) We must cite our sources to show that we didn't make it up. The reason I even mention it in the first place is because Power Rangers formations are a running theme in the show. Also, I cite Spezzafer's movie for the same reason. Although Spezzafer's movie shows the action verbatim, it is not a fully accessible media to people with disabilities, so I must include both. Also, because each source is neither from Nintendo/Square nor a recognized source (i.e. IGN, Electronic Gaming Monthly, etc.) (even though Spezzafer's movie shows everything from the game verbatim), it's necessary to list both.

In addition, I added more citations for the silent protagonist. Early in the game, Toad asks Mario, "Mario, what's with the silent treatment?!" Taric25 01:09, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

What exactly are you sourcing? These statements are not good references. Technically, they're OR. You're creating an original theory(although true) based off of fairly random words. These don't cut it. You need things like the Culex reference (though that really doesn't go into any real detail at all). Also, I really don't think FAQs or videos qualify as credible references either. If you want to list text, just copy what's done on Chrono Trigger.

I'm sourcing the script, online. I just looked at Chrono Trigger, and that's the first time I've seen {{cite video game}}. Now that I know about it, I'll use it, but I'm pretty pissed off that Wikipedia:Citation_templates doesn't list {{cite video game}}. Otherwise, I would have used it and saved a whole lot of trouble.

If you want more things like the Culex refrence, you can use the Nintendo Strategy Guide. I lost mine, but I do have a lot of issues of Nintendo Power I could use. Taric25 02:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I do have that packed away somewhere. I'll take it out for a nostalgic(sort of) read sometime soon. I'll add anything if I find it. Nemu 03:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes! Could you please find it! Nintendo Power mentions nothing about Link, but I remember the strategy guide does. Taric25 09:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and move stuff. Anything shaky(name origins) won't be added until a source is found. Nemu 01:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I could add {{nihongo}} for Super Sentai, with the source, and that would show the name origin. Taric25 02:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I merged the info into List of characters in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. I removed the Axem references because I fail to see how they actually back anything up. I removed all other info. The names can be readded if you find sources. The rest is trivia. Most editors will back me up on the fact that it shouldn't be included. Nemu 01:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I fixed the Axem reference in Smithy Gang. Taric25 09:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Plot

Setting

People, we really need to expand these sections if we're every going to get this article to FA. Taric25 04:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Characters

Character names

I've changed the article back to using the names of the characters as provided by the game. I realize the more "correct" names are Princess Peach Toadstool, King Bowser Koopa, etc. but the names actually used in game are the ones listed in the article. --Ntg 06:42, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Who are the other two?

Along the way he meets up with 6 other characters which will help him in this quest.

This is found in the Story section. I think it's 4, not 6. Mallow, Geno, Bowser, and Toadstool, in that order. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Well, technically he probably meets dozens of characters, but yes, only 4 (Toadstool, Bowser, Geno, Mallow) actually accompany him as fighting teammates. Tyciol 19:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Geno-Pinnochio?

This comparison was recently removed. Rather than make some edit war, I thought we could discuss it's validity here. Geno is indeed a magical doll brought to life by a star. He also received his name from his owner (the kid, similar to Gepetto naming Pinocchio) The difference is, Geno IS the star, and he fights. He also doesn't need a conscience, he's actually more like the group's conscience, the spiritual guide throughout the quest. Even so, the similarities are worth noting I think, unless someone has a closer doll. Tyciol 19:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Jonathon Jones edit war

• Jonathan 'Johnny' Jones: Johnny was once the captain of a pirate ship until a giant squid sank it. Somehow becoming merman-like creatures, Johnny and his pirates now command the ocean from beneath its waves, employing the same squid that sank them to protect their ship's treasure hold. Mario must fight his way through the sunken ship, which is now infested with ghosts, and fight Johnny and his minions to earn a Star Piece.

was changed back to

• Jonathan 'Johnny' Jones: Johnny is a shark pirate that inhabited the sunken ship with his fellow sharks. Mario must fight his way through the sunken ship, which is now infested with ghosts, and fight Johnny and his minions to earn a Star Piece.

withouut explanation. I believe my expanded edits are consistant with the game, why were they removed? Due to spoilers? Due you believe the information is false? Please exlain, or I will revert the revert... but it is good to discuss it here first to resolve the disagreement. Tyciol 19:30, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I think the second one was just more concise. And it never really said Johnny had transformed from human to creature. It was always assumed that he had always been a shark. Sir John Sack-and-Sugar 06:14, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Moved to List of characters in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars#Johnny Jones. Taric25 03:18, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Smithy screenshot

Do we really need to use a screenshot of the Smithy fight? -- A Link to the Past 23:06, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I don't think it hurts. I suppose it might constitute as a spoiler, especially since you see Bowser in your party, but all the article needs is a longer paragraph alongside the pictures of the game for the Smithy battle to fit right in. --pie4all88 02:14, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

I would usually agree with pie4all, but on the Final Fantasy VII article, it was recently concluded that the Sephiroth final battle picture was just better off not in the main article...so while this is a lesser game, perhaps we should follow same 'rule?' Lockeownzj00 23:51, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I think it constitutes as a spoiler too, it's largely unnecessary. Smithy is meant to be a mystery until the end. Having a picture of Mario fighting Bowser, Hammer Bros. or Mack would make more sense. Even Mack's appearance is no surprise based on his minions who you fight earlier. Tyciol 19:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

You can check out Smithy Gang#Smithy for that screen shot. Taric25 03:18, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Link screenshot?

Would it be possible to get a screenshot of Link at the inn? I saw one of Samus and I'd really like if anyone had one of the Link one as well. If anyone has one and they were to put it up, that'd be great, if not perhaps we can work on getting this? AnujSuper9 00:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

We've moved this to List of characters in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. Taric25 07:27, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Silent protagonist

I added an annotated citation with two corroborative sources to support Mario is a silent protagonist. Taric25 07:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Why Does Boshi Redirect Here?

When there is no mention of him. Shouldn't he be redirected to Yoshi? magiciandude 21:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I fixed it. Taric25 05:21, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Story

Summary

I think the summary has some definite room for improvement. There should be a little less, and they shouldn't be the amount of grime on it that there is. Spoiled Silk 02:34, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Story section

The story section is too goddamn long, I think? Doppelganger E 03:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, we should work on shortening it. Taric25 07:23, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I added {{plot}}. Taric25 03:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I trimmed the story by about a third, but it's still close to 1200 words. Feel free to change it back if I removed too much. Dalton Imperial 07:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy III

In Final Fantasy III, one of the side-quest towns has a Back Door needed for access, and Marrymore's back door alludes to this. Can someone please add the town in which this happens and a quote from when it happens? Another type of reference, such as the game's strategy guide, is also acceptable. Taric25 21:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I do not support TTN removing the following.

alluding to the Final Fantasy III sidequest <!-- In Final Fantasy III, one of the side-quest towns has a Back Door needed for access. <ref name="Final Fantasy III"> {{Cite video game | title = Final Fantasy III | developer = Square Co., Ltd. (now Square Enix Co., Ltd.) | publisher = Square Co. | date = 1990-04-27 | platform = NES | level = ****PLEASE ADD IN WHICH TOWN THIS HAPPENS HERE**** | language = Japanese | isolang = ja | quote = ****PLEASE ADD A QUOTE WHEN THIS HAPPENS HERE**** }} </ref> -->,

I believe it contributes to the quality of the article, because we state “It contains token similarities to Chrono Trigger and the Final Fantasy series with a story based in the Mario universe.” Thus, we must show what token similarities to Chrono Trigger and the Final Fantasy it contains. Taric25 23:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Except that the door thing is complete OR, and really doesn't make much sense. How is one random back door, a gimmick used in various RPGs, a reference to one game? And you really need to work on your sourcing. For one, you source completely pointless things, such as the back door part, and you use those horrendously large references. Copy the style used on FAs for regular references, and game FAs for in-game references. Nemu 23:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I am not the person who made the claim that it is a reference to the game. I am asking for a citation that it is true. I am not making a claim of original research, because I am not the person who made the claim. Second, even if I was making this claim, I am saying that I need a citation. I am not claiming original research of my own. Third, you need to assume good faith that I am trying my best to provide verifiable information. You should not assume everytime that my contributons are OR, as you have numberous times already, especially when multiple editors agree that the information adds to the quality of the article. You state the format of my citations, which are a copy–and–paste from {{Cite video game}} and {{Cite news}}, should be like the ones in featured articles. So fix it! Taric25 00:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

You are pushing that it needs to be there, so you should back it up before adding it. Even if you are asking for a source, you state that you think it is important to the article. I'm not talking about the fields that you're using; I'm talking about your method. You use the vertical instead of the inline, and you place way too much information into them. You should be keeping them simple and short like in featured articles. Nemu 00:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Again, I am not the one who added it. Plus, according to the policy Wikipedia:Citing sources, it is perfectly acceptable to provide as much information as you can and request a source (except in biographies of living persons). Also, please define “way too much information” and “simple and short”. I don't understand what that means to you, since I simply copy–and–paste the templates and fill in the fields. In understand you want me to use inline citations rather than the vertical format. I prefer to use the vertical format, but I have no problem switching over to the inline format, if that is what you prefer. Taric25 01:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

It's more evident in Smithy Gang than here, but a couple examples would be the Axem Rangers quotes. Some others would be when you include the entire quote from the source (other than games). That is just unnecessary. That would be preferable as inline citations make it a lot easier to edit easily. That's also only one part of my complaint. Also as shown by the Smithy Gang article, you source totally pointless parts of the story. You should only source major points, not everything you quote in text (which also isn't a good idea). Nemu 02:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

After looking at some more FAs, it seems like one in twenty does use the vertical format, but I'm guessing those are older or something. And even then, they are much more condensed and to the point. The inline is the seemingly preferred format. Nemu 01:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

So fix it! Taric25 01:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

This was more for the future than right now. Nemu 02:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Graphics

Technical

I put the technical information on the game near the top. I really don't want it there, but it makes sense to have it before the spoiler section, in case people still interested in playing the game who have never done so wish to learn about the technical details. I will not be offended if this is moved. (Please move it, rather than reverting, as I fixed a typeo IIRC) --Overand 09:37, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I kept the information and moved it to Graphics and Sound Effects. Taric25 03:18, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Closed Captioning?

What is meant by the comment about SMRPG being closed captioned? I've played it on TVs with the captions turned on, and never seen traditional captions. --Ntg 04:37, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I was wondering the same. Bob A 04:23, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

It appears to be subtle vandalism. It was added by 12.210.89.166 in mid October of last year. Around that time, this IP address was repeatedly warned, and shortly thereafter blocked, for adding nonsense. I'm just going to go ahead and remove that sentence from the article. -Wild Bill 03:01, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, there are no Line 21 closed captions available with this game. In fact, I don't know of any game that uses closed captions over subtitles. I think 12.210.89.166 may have meant subtitles, since the player reads everything the characters say rather that listen to them. Taric25 03:18, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

More Debug Stuff

I see that the Debug Room has very little information on it. I think something to add to it would be the Debug Menu under the Debug Room section, or above it, whatever works. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.197.194.117 (talk • contribs) .

Glitch section

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a glitch section on the SMRPG page? And now that it's been removed, is there any other place where that information can be found? AnujSuper9 00:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a place where you can find that information. If you click "history" at the top, when reading that article, you can look back around the time you saw that information. Although I am not aware of specific glitches in the game, I am aware that they exist. Spezzafer's movie states it "[a]buses programming errors in the game".

I just added Spezzafer's video and citations to the "Errors" section PJ Pete added. Let's see if we can revamp the section, white keeping an eye on notability and attribution. Taric25 16:25, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

The reason for the removal wasn't the OR. It's the fact that we don't directly reference videos within article text as far as I know. A video link does not help the actual article. If something in the video is actually notable, and attributable to a true source, readd it with that. The first part is still very trivial also. Nemu 16:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't refrencing the video. I was refrencing the website: "Abuses programming errors in the game".[1] I am simply using the source to show that programming errors exist in the gamre. Besides, Wikipedians do directly reference videos within article text. Take a look at Subtitle (captioning)#South Asia. Plus, if I was citing the video, I would have used {{cite video}}, not {{cite web}}. Taric25 15:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I do not support TTN removing the "Errors" section. If you do not believe the copyright is notable, or deserves mention in a section, then we should briefly mention at a foot note of the Infobox. In addition, Spezzafer is within one's field of expertise, simply playing the game. If I read a book aloud, is my aural rendition of the book OR?: no. Taric25 16:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be reading a little to far into that part. Playing a game is not a field of expertise. You also seemed to miss "these may be acceptable as sources, so long as his or her work has been previously published by credible, third-party publications." The game cannot be used a source if you are stating things that cannot normally be accessed in the game. That is the kind of thing that needs a secondary source. And once again, we don't point out random (and very large) videos in text, which is the main reason for it's removal.

I didn't mean gameplaying was Spezzafer's field of expertise. I was talking about making tool–assisted videos, in which he is within his field of expertise, "using an emulator as a tool to overcome human limitations such as skill and reflex." [2]

Only a few players that are skilled in real-time play have the will to create good tool-assisted movies (patience and determination count instead of real-time skills), and only a few players that make good tool-assisted movies are truly skillful in real-time playing (almost always in a different game). Bisqwit, for example, does not do well at Mega Man games, although he is the author of the sensational tool-assisted Mega Man movie.[3]

Taric25 15:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a place for that random piece of trivia, feel free to place it there. Nemu 17:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing. I'll place the Title Screen discrepency as a footnote in the Infobox. As for programming errors, we'll see. In addition, many wikipedians, such as AnujSuper9, Dragon DASH, who just provided the image proving Square published the title as well in Japan, which I just expanded, as well as uploaded the image of the debug room, and myself all believe that something about Debug, Glitches, or Errors is notable. I thing we should have some mention along the lines of that topic. Taric25 15:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I had to edit {{Infobox CVG}} to allow for footnotes, but I finished, and now it's a footnote. Taric25 17:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Square logo

To set the record straight, I didn't use the Square logo "to look pretty". I added it because that's what's in the screenshot. If the Nintendo logo appeared, then I would have added it as well. (BTW, I just revamped the summary of the square logo on its image description page.) However, since the citeria for fair use on Wikipedia is that no public domain (or other free licence) material that can serve the same purpose exists. The text "Square" serves the same purpose. Taric25 16:11, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Audio

"Like Super Mario World, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars' music primarily varies the same theme." Can anyone provide a citation for this? Taric25 18:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Soundtrack relevance

Does a track listing of the soundtrack really belong here? - Furrykef 04:55, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I personally don't see the point in it. Andre (talk) 05:02, Nov 6, 2004 (UTC)

I honestly was wondering what it was doing there; it's so large that it kind of squishes the rest of the content into the top. [[User:Mo0|Mo0[talk]]] 07:03, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. I've gone ahead and deleted the Soundtrack section, and added an External link to a web page with the soundtrack listing. --LostLeviathan 21:27, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Any one know where I could find this soundtrack? Couldn't it have been on a seperate page? I really wish I could see it. SamWhite 22:30, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. You can now see it all at Super Mario RPG: Original Sound Version. Taric25 03:18, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy boss: Culex

But- what about the FF boss in the game? Not mentioned, but I can't remember where it is. In the lower-left hand corner of the world.

Culex in Monstro Town. –Andre (talk) 15:13, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I read somewhere that Culex actually wasn't in any Final Fantasy game, just

themed like one. GSGold 01:50, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I believe Culex was in Final Fantasy V, though the music (both the fight theme and victory theme) that appears in Super Mario RPG is from Final Fantasy IV. - Furrykef 03:27, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Can you please add a picture of Culex to the articule? PLEEEASE? -Anonymous

He's not in any FF games, he is only modelled after them. 70.156.34.60 21:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe; let me log on and get to that point in the game. :) 70.178.93.149 19:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Redirect link (Culex)

Why does this article have a link to Culex, but Culex is just a redirect to this article? Jaysbro 15:05, 17 November 2005 (UTC) Also what about other uses of Culex like the genus of mosquitos?

I have removed the self-redirect. I have also created a disambiguation page at Culex, since Mosquito was linking to the redirect. Mushroom 18:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I updated the link to reflect recent changes. Taric25 22:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I just updated it again. Taric25 10:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy V music reference

In the references section, it mentioned that the music for the Mushroom Kingdom was directly pulled from Final Fantasy V. This is not the case (I listened to them and am familiar with both songs), though the two songs do sound rather similar. JayKeaton 18:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

The two songs to which you refer are it's “Royal Palace” (王家の宮殿, Ōke no Kyūden) that plays while in Walse Castle and “Hello, Happy Kingdom ” that plays while in the Mushroom Kingdom. Remember that Square did give this game token similarities to Final Fantasy. Taric25 03:18, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Same music as Final Fantasy?

I had once heard that the music for the Mushroom Kingdom in this game is the same as a certain town in Final Fantasy V. Can anyone confirm this? ~Hibana

This seems to be listed under Wikipedia... so yes, confirming it would be good. I never noticed, but I was never very observant. Tyciol 19:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's Royal Palace (王家の宮殿, Ōke no Kyūden) that plays while in Walse Castle. Taric25 00:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)