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Line Breaks

I added a line-break code to separate the text from the userbox box on my userpage, but that won't work. What else should I try because it ticks me off how the bullet points in my list of VHS tapes is inside the userbox box. Sean90 22:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC).[reply]

False information

Is there any policy on people including false information on their talk page (eg. claiming to be a doctor, when they're not), or making false information about themselves elsewhere (eg. claiming to be an expert). --84.9.191.165 00:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reference to Wikia

This appears in the what must I not have on my page guidelines: "You might also want to consider Wikia for wiki-style community collaboration." First, is Wikia for free? Second, is Wikia for profit? It's hard to tell either from the article and I know it has something to do with Jimbo, so my request is somewhat sensitive: If it's not free and is for profit, can this referral be removed? it looks like an endorsement or advertisement. If I'm being an a-hole about this, tell me, but I don't mean to be, but if we had a referral to godaddy or something I'd be equally curious but not quite so sheepish about it. Carlossuarez46 06:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed please remove to make Larry happy. Purpletext4 (talk) 19:37, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Polemical" -> "Polemical or offensive"

Offensive content shouldn't really be in userspace anyway. Will (talk) 13:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Offensive to whom? Some people have a pretty low threshold of offense. It appears from WP:AN/I#Inappropriate_protection_of_User_talk:Anonimu (I know that will soon be archived, and I would welcome an update of the link to point to the archive once that happens) that Will is one of these. I, for one, am a lot more offended by high-handed removal of material from other people's user pages.

We may need a clarification of a threshold as to what constitutes a polemic. If I have followed correctly, and if there is no hidden agenda going on, Will seems to think that the single statement "This user chooses not to listen to ultra-nationalist rhetoric, of whatever nation" on my user page constituted an unacceptable polemic. For what it's worth, my talk page also contains the statement "Wikipedia is biased toward over-inclusion of certain material pertaining to (for example) science fiction, contemporary youth culture, contemporary U.S. and UK culture in general, and anything already well covered in the English-langauge portion of the Internet," which is probably more polemical than the statement that Will objected to, but I believe is still well within the limits of acceptable content for a user page.

As I mentioned in the discussion of the dispute, I'm inclined to give enormous latitude to user pages, and I'm not sure I even like the rule against polemics. For an example of a user page that certainly offends me, but which I would not censor, consider User:Morton devonshire. For an example of one that I find quite offensive, and would understand if it were to be censored, but which I, left to my own decision, would leave alone because it helps "peg" the user in question, see User:Zionists United. I suspect that the latter — not the sort of thing on my page — was the sort of thing that someone had in mind in making this rule; in any case, a clarification would be in order.

Again, I strongly object to the unqualified addition of "offensive"; I think it would unleash a barrage of attacks on user pages by people who are easily offended, or are willing to pretend to be. (E.g., I could imagine someone deciding they were offended by all mention of user's own religious beliefs.) - Jmabel | Talk 15:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Woah, is there some internet / knowledge junkies here or what??? Signed, Someone In Denial —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gorgeous girl 94 (talk • contribs) 09:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Recommendations for content

I've just come across a user page which gives the user's age. I think these guidelines should include warnings or recommendations not to include your age (for minors) or any other personal details that may lead to identity fraud or worse. I don't have time to draft these, unfortunately, but if they were there I could at least point the user at this page. Stephenb (Talk) 16:21, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen a few cases where administrators have removed or deleted such information from a page (citing or in the spirit of WP:COPPA). People, especially minors, should definitely be careful about how much personal information they give out anywhere on the internet, and on Wikipedia in particular, as our pages tend to rank high in Google results. – Luna Santin (talk) 08:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I Want My User and Talk Pages Protected

I have no interest in personal interactions intended for public scrutiny. I want my User and Talk pages Protected, so that nobody can edit them. But, it seems people can't protect their own pages. How do I get this done? I would have them deleted, but I want to provide an email address for those who something to say to me.Bsharvy 06:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User pages are generally semi-protected on request; full protection is generally reserved for cases where there's a significant reason under the Wikipedia:Protection policy that applies. User talk pages are usually protected only in the event of abuse -- they're there specifically so that people can contact you, and protecting them generally interferes with that purpose. – Luna Santin (talk) 06:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Talk pages don't serve the purpose of people contacting me. They are public. Email does serves the purpose of people contacting me. The Talk pages serve the purpose of publicly gathering people's comments about me. Since such comments say more about the commentator than the subject, they belong on the commentators page, not mine. I have no interest in having anything like a publicly-edited encylopedia entry about me. Exactly how does the Wikipedia site recognize the value of privacy?
You're welcome to communicate via email, but in the interest of keeping everyone on this collaborative project both on the same page and accountable, some public forums and communications are essential. It's important that we know what's going on, that we have common and reliable ways of getting in touch with each other, and that we avoid duplicated efforts. If you believe that certain users are harassing you or being overly negative, that's another concern, and those users should be dealt with (possibly through the admin noticeboards or the dispute resolution process). – Luna Santin (talk) 08:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I believe its also a necessary function (talk page) so that admins and other editors can warn someone if they've broken WP rules; it also keeps a log so admins can look back and see if a person has repeatedly broken rules or is a new member. Also, it makes it possible for people to be responsible for what they write (for good or bad) there is no hiding anything. 71.214.139.199 21:49, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Solution to UI Spoofing

I understand I'm a bit late for UI Spoofing discussion. Well, next time it's discussed I think a compromise can be reached (at least for the "new message" joke): jokers must NOT use class=usermessage but instead put something like 

<div style="background-color:#FFCE7B; border:1px solid #FFA500; padding:0.5em 1em; font-weight:bold;">
… …
</div>

Then people who are really annoyed by this will be able to redefine usermessage class in their personal /monobook.css and use some different color for genuine messages. In other words: using div with some style is fine, using class defined in Mediawiki is bad because it doesn't leave users a choice. I think at least that much should be added to the guideline ∴ Alex Smotrov 15:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about not allow it altogether under WP:HOAX >___> --218.214.47.219 08:24, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A policy I disagree with

Apparently, a person can remove warnings from a user talk page as a "sign that they have read it." I don't think this should be allowed, people only do this so they don't have a nasty stain on their record. Cheers, JetLover (talk) 03:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The warning stays in the history of the page, so it can be found by anyone who looks for it. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:29, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But you'd have to look as hard as hell to find it. Cheers,JetLover 23:27, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Removed warnings fail to serve their other purpose, namely, informing the rest of the Wikipedia community of the user's history. The talk page is supposed to be a discussion about said user, not the user's exclusive domain. I think the guideline should be changed to forbid outright removal but to permit proper archival. --DachannienTalkContrib 23:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tag, you're it

I've gotten a "nominated for deletion" kind of tag on my userpage. Why? And how do I get rid of it? Trekphiler 19:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Collection of evidence

Radiant recently added a statement that user space should not be used for collections of evidence to be used in a later proceeding (RFC or RFAR, presumably). While Radiant makes a good point, I can find no prior discussion of this and I object to it as a blanket rule. Keeping evidence on your own hard drive is fine if you have mediawiki installed, but user space is the only way most of us can check the formatting, make sure diffs are right, and so on. User space also allows editors to work on a case together. Every arbitration case and RFC I have filed was started in my user space, usually I open the case within a day or two. I would agree with "Collections of evidence should not be kept indefinitely; if you do not plan to open a case in the near future, evidence should be kept on your own hard drive." But I can not agree with a blanket prohibition. Thatcher131 00:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(merged sections) I routinely educate users if I find an evidence page in their user space that such pages can be considered attack pages and are generally inappropriate. Users who want to collect evidence can do so in a text editor. I didn't realize that was also mentioned here, but I support including it here. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think there is a difference between a short-term use for formatting a case that will be opened soon and a long-term collection of grudges? Thatcher131 00:22, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If "soon" is a matter of hours, that's fine, although many pages can also be developed in place before being widely announced. For any delay longer than that, I would strongly recommend a text editor to the user. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:26, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All pages in userspace are to be used in preference to any other page to collect evidence related to conduct issues in the early stages of a dispute. User talk space is also acceptable for this purpose. This is of course subject to the Harassment guideline, and like all other pages on Wikipedia must comply with the No personal attacks policy in that it should not denigrate the person of the editor or editors in question. It is acceptable to gather possible evidence of bad faith (trolling, etc), but this should not be done in a prejudicial manner. Commonsense should be used. Act like a grownup and you'll be treated like one.

If you collect conduct evidence in your userspace or user talkspace, it should not be done in an indiscriminate manner, and should pertain to sensible concerns (including but not limited to existing policies). The community can see the evidence gathered, and the manner of its construction, and should feel free to comment on the appropriateness of the activity of gathering such evidence in the circumstances pertaining, and in exceptional cases an editor who engages in grossly inappropriate gathering of evidence may be sanctioned by the arbitration committee.

It is not appropriate to equate an evidence page, per se, with an attack page. An attack page is used, or is intended to be used, for the purpose of personally attacking or intimidating another person. If you gather on your user page a list of diffs to edits by a certain editor or group of editors, labelling them as possible conduct issues related to established policy or legitimate concerns, then it should be considered legitimate in the absence of evidence to the contrary, as long as it's quite clear from your conduct that you are engaging the editor and attempting to raise his awareness of the disputed actions, or have made reasonable attempts to do so.

Timescale is material, but in chronic cases it's reasonable to gather evidence over a period of months, if offences are egregious and ongoing. I've seen arbitration cases in which evidence gather over a period of six months has been considered material, and gathering such evidence publicly, in the full light of day, is probably better for the process than doing so secretly and without serious attempts to raise the issues with the subject.

There is nothing here that doesn't follow from our dispute resolution policy. --Tony Sidaway 04:24, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Acutally this looks like someone trying to make a point or gain advantage,
It would be nice if this was discussed here first so I wouldn't have to guess at what is going on sub rosa. Evidence pages can become abusive grudge pages but isn't that what the harassment policy is for? Otherwise, gathering evidence in a public place seems like a good idea rather than hide it and spring it on the community at the last minute. Thatcher131 04:47, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A collection of evidence against someone amounting to a campaign against that person. Collecting information to represent accurately and precisely the behavior of Wikipedians in general as allowed by Wikipedia:User page is distinct from using a userpage to campaign against someone, which Jimbo identified as a bad idea on 29 September 2006. As oppose to collecting information which is permitted, collecting of evidence against someone can be one way of campaigning against someone. In many cases, such action does not amount to a speedy delete attack page but none the less needs to be considered at MfD as Tony aluded to above. Radiant! added the "collect evidence against someone" information to Wikipedia:User page page just below Jimbo's 29 September 2006 and it was obvious to me that Jimbo's statement was a reason for the addition. The lack of discussion about this addition on the talk page doesn't seem to be a reason to abandon assumption of good faith. Had you asked me about this addition to Wikipedia:User page or suggest that I clarify the addition on this talk page, I would have been happy to do so. -- Jreferee (Talk) 17:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thatcher, you're confusing speedy deletion with MFD, and you're confusing a hard prohibition in policy, with a "generally you should avoid" section in a content guideline. "Guidelines are not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception". Of course you can keep a page for a few days in preparation for something official. The point is that most of these pages are simply only there out of a grudge, and their author just calls it evidence collecting to weasel his way out. >Radiant< 07:40, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no consensus to include this point. It goes against generally accepted practice. There is a consensus to differentiate between legitimate collection of evidence for a purpose such as RfC or ArbCom and gratuitous collection of negative material. This could be included in the guideline, but the present wording does not do this. Tyrenius 12:42, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I disagree with your removal, your characterization that there is consensus against the paragraph, and your characterization that the paragraph disagrees with current practice. The only person who has spoken against the paragraph here is Tony Sidaway; I need to contact him to get a better picture of his thoughts on the matter. However, because the CSD criterion for attack pages still applies to the pages I am concerned about whether or not it is repeated here, there's no rush to have the paragraph added back here. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What am I, chopped liver? Thatcher131 13:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think Jimbo's diff means anywhere near what you think it means. In the context of BLP, Wikipedians should not put stuff in their user space that disparages or attacks other people (possibly such as the bathroom reference recently under discussion at User talk:Bmedley Sutler. I don't see anything in his comment that has anything to do with using one's user space to compile evidence for an RFAR or RFC. I can see that in some cases such subpages will be inappropriate, such as Tobias Conradi's collection of grievances, where he had no intention of actually pursuing dispute resolution. But if I decide to compile evidence for an RFC or an RFAR, maybe over the course of a week or two weeks, to see if the evidence is strong enough (as I have, repeatedly, and sometimes decided that there wasn't a case, and then blanked the page) then I don't believe you or anyone citing this policy should be able to tell me no or to force the issue through CSD or MFD. Thatcher131 13:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
you're confusing a hard prohibition in policy, with a "generally you should avoid" section in a content guideline. "Guidelines are not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception". Hah. Try telling the AfD regulars that Notability is just a guideline that should be treated with "common sense and the occasional exception." Once something is written down, as it is here, it will be used as a weapon in any ongoing personality battle that happens to come along. There is a lot of value in being open about your activities. I was recently emailed by someone who thought I made an error against him; I replied on his talk page because openness and transparency is important. There is a big difference between User:Thatcher/Wikipedians who annoy me and User:Thatcher/Draft RFC. If you really mean to permit temporary collections of evidence and draft RFCs, then your change is too broadly worded and will be easily (and deliberately) misinterpreted. But frankly it looks like you don't want to allow that at all. Thatcher131 13:21, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think there's all that much of a difference, because people tend to use the latter (draft RFC) as a weasel term for the former. Where is the need to keep a "draft RFC" around for more than a few days? If we state that such pages are acceptable for a short while, that would probably resolve your problem. >Radiant< 13:50, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(←) Thatcher131: I'm sorry; I didn't read your later comments correctly.
I do believe that gathering evidence over the course of a week or two weeks is not appropriate for a user space page. You are concerned with community transparency, but the point of opening the RFC or RFARB is to gather community input - there's no need for community input before the process to gather community input has started. Prior to opening an RFC or RFARB, we ought to try to resolve issues through discussion; having "evidence" pages inhibits such discussion because it's more difficult for the "accused" person to believe the "accusers" are trying in good faith to resolve the issues. I can see the benefit of entering and copyediting an RFC of RFARB immediately before making it live, but before that it should stay private, as a show of good faith to the editor being discussed. If necessary, one can summarize the evidence for that editor, or send it by email, although presenting a person with an detailed and exhaustive list of their mistakes is unlikely to move conversation forward. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You might disagree with it, but it is widely accepted practice, and the guideline should acknowledge that, rather than imposing legislation out of the blue. I see it has just been reinserted without further discussion.[2] Tyrenius 13:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We seem to have different impressions of whether it's widely accepted. I have never gained the impression that evidence pages are widely accepted, and apparently I am not alone in being miseducated in that way. I'd be glad to discuss the issue further on user talk pages to find out what's going on. As I said, it's not really an issue that this guideline must decide. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • As CBM pointed out, there isn't really all that good a reason for people to include long-lasting "evidence lists" in their user space (except, of course, to disparage the subject). "Dispute resolution" is fundamentally different from "gathering all the dirt you can find about somebody". >Radiant< 13:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's a difference between "grudge" pages and those which are genuinely a preparation for RfC, ArbCom or RFCU. The former need to be banned and the latter allowed. They have the advantage of giving advance warning and allowing other interested parties to prepare also, and sometimes to participate. Such pages are a common practice amongst established users. Tyrenius 13:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I generally agree with Thatcher and Tyrenius on this issue. Drawing the line may sometimes be difficult in an individual case, but that is true in applying lots of guidelines, and doesn't invalidate the distinction. Newyorkbrad 13:10, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest change of wording to:
Negative material about other users. You are allowed to prepare evidence for RfC, ArbCom, RFCU etc. It is advisable to state this clearly.
Tyrenius 13:33, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about:

Negative material about other users. You are allowed to prepare evidence for RfC, ArbCom, RFCU etc. for a reasonable time. It is advisable to state your purpose clearly.

Tyrenius 14:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Radiant, you've edited the guideline so that it still recommends using one's hard drive to gather evidence. I cannot agree that gathering "secret evidence" of that kind is preferable to doing so publicly. I think the key here is whether one is gathering it with the mere intent of embarrassing or denigrating someone, as opposed to expressing a reasonable concern and trying to engage the editor, or failing him the community, in a dialog about a serious conduct concern.
We've too often got precious little actual thoughtful addressing of serious concerns by the community, so encouraging people to gather evidence in private seems to me the wrong way to go. Let editors do so in public, in a manner consistent with dispute resolution. If they do so inappropriately, in a manner that is at all inconsistent with Wikipedia's policies, then that is a conduct problem that can be addressed as such, but I don't think it's right to say in this guideline that userspace cannot be used for a purpose that, done properly, is in the best interests of Wikipedia. --Tony Sidaway 14:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am certainly in favor of dispute resolution - but given how extremely easy it is to open a RFC, RFM or RFAr on anybody for any reason, I do not see a reason why people need a long preparation time in userspace. Yes, let them do it in a manner consistent with dispute resolutions - keeping such pages in userspace is not consistent with any of that. Every DR process that I am aware of will unlist or delete spurious or bad-faith requests, so why should people be able to keep spurious or bad-faith requests in their userspace? >Radiant< 14:46, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No one's suggesting that bad faith material should be allowed, only good faith preparation for proper processes. Tyrenius 00:15, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree to that, I'm simply trying to account for bad faith material with a "this is an RFC honestly" tag on it (because such is all too common). >Radiant< 08:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If the meat of the phrase is going to be some version of "User space may be used to gather and format evidence for a pending dispute resolution process but should not be used for perpetuating grudges" then it would be best to leave the "on your own hard drive" unsaid, don't you think? No point giving people ideas that it is ok to bear grudges as long as they are kept hidden. Thatcher131 14:49, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The hard drive is just an example; people are free to tattoo it on their arms :) >Radiant< 08:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

After discussing the issue privately with a few people, I have a better sense of their concerns. The best description I can find to synthesize the points of view here and the attack page CSD criterion is: preparing evidence for an RFC or arbitration case, if done politely, is acceptable; but if the user being documented objects, the person gathering the evidence should be ready to either file the case or remove the evidence from the wiki. Pages that serve only to disparage other editors are never acceptable. — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

if the user being documented objects, the person gathering the evidence should be ready to either file the case or remove the evidence from the wiki. That seems reasonable. Thatcher131 15:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think we are on the right approach. I think there is agreement that some point in time exists where user page hosting of evidence against people becomes inappropriate such as being intimidating, disparagement, etc., but yet not amounting to an attack removeable by speedy deletion. Five days from the creation of the material seems too short of time to demand they remove the material, but if the evidence is there for six months or longer without any movement towards filing a case (which is what I am coming across), then it clearly should be removed from the wiki via MfD. MfD should be used to decide how long is too long. Sometimes it may be ten days, sometimes it may be a month or two. Wikipedia:User page should include specific language to set up such a discussion at MfD. I don't care what it says so long as when I post a request at MfD to delete an evidence gathering user page I can cite to language in Wikipedia:User that specifically mentions this issue. -- Jreferee (Talk) 17:36, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Collection of material proposed language

The following language is being proposed to be added to Wikipedia:User page:

Collection of material against others - A gratuitous collection of material against others is not an appropriate user page use. However, a reasonable collection of evidence and other information for a dispute resolution process such as RfC or arbitration case over the course of a week or two weeks is an acceptable user page use. After this time, you should be ready to either file the dispute resolution case or remove the material against others from the wiki. User pages containing gratuitous collection of material against others may be deleted at Miscellany for deletion.

Please use the above as a starting point for the language to be added. Please line out material to delete and underscore material to be added to the above language. Please note the reason for your change below

  • Comments The above should go where Radiant!'s initially posting was made. Assume good faith and the two-week time frame is enough that the person does not need to tag the page as being for dispute resolution. There is no need to include a statement about WP:CSD#G10 speedy delete attack page since that is covered elsewhere. -- Jreferee (Talk) 18:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - The words "material against others" seem vague. Perhaps "pages or sections consisting primarily of material criticizing other users, or claimed to illustrate that they have behaved improperly" or something of that nature? Newyorkbrad 18:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I think what we are after is when someone posts on their user page an other editor's name and then says something next to it likely to be objectionable by someone else. The word "against" seems to capture that. As for whether it is "against" that person can be concluded at MfD. If we give too much detail, people are likely to skirt around it. We could add a statement such as "Material criticizing other users, or claimed to illustrate that they have behaved improperly may be considered as being material against that person." -- Jreferee (Talk) 18:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Our actions on Wikipedia are on record. Sometimes an editor might spot a consistent trend in another editor's behavior, and want to bring it to light. Gathering evidence is okay. There is a point where it becomes unacceptable and then the community will express its opinion in the light of the circumstances pertaining. We should not discourage on-wiki activity per se. --Tony Sidaway 19:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a little leery of adding language for the reason that I don't care what it says so long as when I post a request at MfD to delete an evidence gathering user page I can cite to language in Wikipedia:User that specifically mentions this issue, especially since the original justification for adding it was "Per MfD." (which seems to be circular reasoning as well) Have we gotten to the point where the only way to enforce common sense is to write down every permuation listing all the possible exceptions and qualifications? "User pages should not contain material that can be construed as attacking other editors, including memorializing grudges and perceived slights. Common sense exceptions may be made for evidence legitimately compiled in contemplation of the dispute resolution process." Seems general enough and sufficient for my purposes, anyway. We shouldn't be thinking that we have to nail down every possible circumstance in advance. Thatcher131 23:59, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Your idea reworked a bit:
Material that can be construed as attacking other editors, including the recording of perceived flaws. Common sense exceptions are made for evidence legitimately compiled within a reasonable time frame to prepare for a dispute resolution process.
Tyrenius 00:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Seems ok to me. Thatcher131 00:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd strike the word "legitimate" from Tyrenius's example, but otherwise I think this looks good. In response to Tony, in such cases where its okay, I believe it would be preferable to simply move it to an RFC. At the very least, that gives the subject of the matter a chance to respond to it. >Radiant< 09:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
OK. Wording now:
Material that can be construed as attacking other editors, including the recording of perceived flaws. Common sense exceptions are made for evidence compiled within a reasonable time frame to prepare for a dispute resolution process.
Tyrenius 14:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The point of this language is to provide a basis to discuss a user page at MfD that does not rise to the level of a WP:CSD#G10 speedy delete attack page. Using "attacking other editors" language does not provide much differnce from WP:CSD#G10 speedy delete attack page. Also, since the exception is common sense, is there really a need to label it as common sense? -- Jreferee (Talk) 18:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Attacking other editors is wrong--even in the context of a RfC;. Criticizing their edits is another matter--we all do it on talk pages all the time. Collecting such criticisms about individuals is of course an implied more general criticism of their work, but it does not necessarily indicate the need or the intent to proceed to RfC or an arbitration, and should be permitted both in the context of an forthcoming DR and otherwise. What we do here is public; collecting it is permissible. The listing of this material is not an attack, and if people are considering it as an attack, then we need a statement here that it is not prohibited content. DGG (talk) 00:58, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The issue is with people who collect evidence not for dispute resolution, but for disparagement. Anyway, phrase added per discussion here, withuot the "common sense" per Jreferee, and with a wikilink to WP:DR. >Radiant< 13:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spam/promotion/advertising/etc. on user pages

I'm surprised there's no specific mention of spam, promotion, or advertising on user pages. We routinely revert or delete user pages with promotional material on them, and it would certainly be covered under "substantial content on your user page that is unrelated to Wikipedia", but I propose to add a bullet point to the "What may I not have on my user page?" with specific mention of that along with what is presently there including weblogs, polemics, games, entertainment, extensive personal info, etc. This would be something like:

  • Advertising or promotion of a business or non-Wikipedia-related organization

Obviously hardcore spammers wouldn't be persuaded by a user page guideline, but there have been a number of recent cases of possibly good-faith users with spam for their companies/practices on their user pages and it would be nice to be able to point them at a specific guideline. --MCB 18:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

DatingTraining (talk · contribs) has advertisement on userpage. World Arachny 06:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The page was deleted and the user indef-blocked as a spammer & for violation of WP:U. --MCB 17:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The phrasing is a bit too "bright-line" - normally there's some leeway for e.g. if an established user in good standing happens to mention their job/business/etc in the context of a brief section about personal information, etc. --Random832 19:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, it might go against WP:COI policy. It is much better for someone with COI to declare it. If a person works for X publisher, it is fairer all around that she say so--and it should not be taken as advertisement for that publisher. If an editor is webmaster of a site, let him say it clearly--sure, people may go to look at his site, but, more important, it will elucidate the nature of edits that may be done. DGG (talk) 06:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's why I used "advertising or promotion" as opposed to "mention" or "reference to". It's a bright line, but one with a distinction that any reasonable person should be able to make. Mentioning one's occupation or employer is fine; I don't think anyone would consider that advertising or promotion. --MCB 07:24, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Policy Disagreement

I strongly disagree with the removal of warnings policy from a users talk page. I believe that the only person who should be allowed to remove them are the users that placed them, or an admin. It can be hard to find what you need in the history page of a repeat vandal, as the page history can be long and finding what you need is hard. I see the removal of warnings just another way for vandals to elude blocks, i know from personal experience that when i was a new user i was un-sure what warning template on a users page. I suggest that the policy be changed so that if a user disagrees with the warn they received they can either bring it up with the user who placed it, if that does not work or they do not want to, they can go to a admin or conflict resolution. Otherwise the warnings should just be archived on the users talk page and not removed. Tiptoety 17:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But how would you enforce this without a major re-write of the mediawiki software? Think outside the box 13:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Quesiton

Has the removal of warnings been repealed? Because I just saw Anthony.bradbury tell someone not to do that. User:JetLover 22:41, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think it has yet been repealed, but if the messages are to mean anything at all they should not be removed. The rule should be changed. DGG (talk) 04:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Warnings are just strings of characters placed on a talk page. If the user removes the message, we assume he's read it. Anything else is wikilawyering, which we don't do. --Tony Sidaway 01:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What's it for?

Hey guys..I'm quite new to wikipedia. And after i read the user page article i still dont understand the *exact* use of the user page. The article is written for someone who is already oriented to wikipedia. I can only tell that the page is not for telling people who you are...so can someone tell me *clearly* what it is used for? Yes i'm a noob Enoch08 10:15, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Write anything about yourself that is compatible with the project. To quote:
Think of it as a way of organizing the work that you are doing on the articles in Wikipedia, and also a way of helping other editors to understand with whom they are working.
Some people add information about themselves as well, possibly including contact information (email, instant messaging, etc), a photograph, their real name, their location, information about their areas of expertise and interest, likes and dislikes, homepages, and so forth. (If you are concerned with privacy, you may not want to and are by no means required to emulate this.)
I think this is fairly plain. Here's an old version of my user page, before I redirected it to my talk page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Tony_Sidaway&oldid=37227961
My favorite bit is the bicycle. --Tony Sidaway 01:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RFC

I strongly disagree with the "removal of warnings" rule and I have formed an RFC about it. The reason I am doing that is this is that it is just another way vandals can make it harder on users, and other users simply don't want that ugly stain in their history. And although you can find these in the history page, it's like trying to find a hay in a needle stack. To prove my point, I dare anyone who disagrees to [3] find the time when someone told me his edits to black hole were correct. Cheers,JetLover (Report a mistake) 02:50, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Let me just be absolutely sure here: you want it so that people aren't allowed to remove warnings from their user pages? If so, wouldn't that make them punishments instead of warnings?--Father Goose 03:22, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to burn them with a metal rod. Did you take anything I said into consideration at all? And besides, then they can mask their activities here. And it can also be disruptive. And if they don't want it all they have to do is make an archive. Cheers,JetLover (Report a mistake) 03:24, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It would depend on whether the purpose of a warning is to warn the user that he or she has transgressed vs. warning other users of that user's transgressions. The second form is a form of punishment: "marking" them as transgressors. Do we do that on Wikipedia? Do we need to? If a person has transgressed in a way serious enough to merit a block, that will show up in their block log -- which is accessible to anyone, if they care to look.
I personally would rather see more blocks for truly disruptive behavior -- warnings are fine "as warnings", but otherwise toothless without enforcement.--Father Goose 03:57, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think the general approach to avoid blocking the first time is good, except when it is clear that it isn't really the first time, or that it's a concerted attack doing damage that needs to be stopped. Reeducation goes better without punishment. I have rarely seen a block that didn't give rise to serious bitterness. DGG (talk) 19:48, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm talking about vandalism warnings. And we have the Template:TlTalk-vandal1 {{Talk-vandal2}} and {{Talk-vandal3}} for that. Cheers,JetLover (Report a mistake) 04:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I thought it was policy that these sort of warnings couldn't be removed, especially deleted. What if a vandal is warned, then removes the warning? The next time they vandalize they get a fresh one, unless the warner goes to the trouble of looking at the page history or their contributions and figures out something isn't right. I guess it depends on the user, but it seems strange. What about anons, can they remove warnings? I've recently had a problem with this and the page ended up being semi-protected so they couldn't remove them anymore. Richard001 08:55, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly disagree with the removal of warnings policy from a users talk page. I believe that the only person who should be allowed to remove them are the users that placed them, or an admin. It can be hard to find what you need in the history page of a repeat vandal, as the page history can be long and finding what you need is hard. I see the removal of warnings just another way for vandals to elude blocks, i know from personal experience that when i was a new user i was un-sure what warning template on a users page. I suggest that the policy be changed so that if a user disagrees with the warn they received they can either bring it up with the user who placed it, if that does not work or they do not want to, they can go to a admin or conflict resolution. Otherwise the warnings should just be archived on the users talk page and not removed. Tiptoety 17:25, 17 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tiptoety (talk • contribs)

Take a look at this and that... Tiptoety 23:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd tend to agree, but it seems unlikely we're going to get any traction on this until there's some sort of agreement as to how to distinguish between "legitimate" and "spurious" warnings, and until there's some sort of general consensus about everyone actually archiving talk pages properly. While certain "regulars" (and indeed admins) selectively blank comments they don't like, or "archive" their talk page by mass-blanking them (cut'n'paste archiving without the "paste" part, as it were), we can hardly insist that assorted newbies (whether malicious or just befuddled) abide to some higher standard. Alai 01:47, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I posted a comment to an older discussion above, but I'd like to reiterate my position that when you allow someone to delete (without archiving) a warning from their user talk page, it causes the warning to fail to fulfill one of its two purposes. One purpose is to warn the user of impending doom if they repeatedly don't change their behavior. The other is to warn other Wikipedians that the user has partaken in a certain kind of activity that doesn't mesh well with Wikipedia's goals, or worse yet, that outright violates its policies.
The concept of user warnings as a notification versus a punishment should be taken in the context of the several levels of user warnings. If someone puts a level 1 template on my talk page, nobody will look at it in a negative fashion. They'll assume I'm learning how Wikipedia works and that I still have the potential to be a good contributor. If I have a string of templates on my talk page culminating in a couple of level 4 templates, sure, that's a stain on that user's reputation, but it is most likely one that the person earned.
If the community regards the edit that earned them the warning to truly be a bad edit, then the warning should stay. If the community sees that the warning was issued in bad faith, and the edit that earned the warning was reinstated or at least vindicated, then the community, not the user, can remove the warning. If necessary, the user can request a review of the warning, or they can simply post an explanation of the situation below the warning to show other users that they aren't a garden-variety vandal.
But above all, allowing a user to remove warnings from their own talk page is, with few exceptions, simply a tactic for extending the time it takes for them to get blocked. The guideline here should therefore be changed to forbid deletions but permit archival. --DachannienTalkContrib 23:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't there be different standards for this between IP talk pages and User talk pages? I only ask because most vandalism seems to be from IPs. • Lawrence Cohen 19:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, WP:DTTR says you shouldn't template regulars (long term editors), but uservandals and IPs pretty much have the same standards. I am also against the removal of warnings, but maybe it should be allowed after about a week of clean editing. J-ſtanTalkContribs 19:09, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
IPs can be incredibly static, though. Maybe removal of any template warning on an IP talk page fresher than 1 month/31 days ought to be prohibited? To help spot patterns of abuse. • Lawrence Cohen 19:12, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I find it problematic that warnings and comments can now be removed from a user talk page, without any recourse. When I first joined Wikipedia, I remember removing a talk page warning, but was advised by another editor to keep it as a record of communication. It was a guideline that seemed to be followed for the longest time, until recently. It's troubling that editors can simply undo recent comments from their talk page, so that it appears that they have a "clean" slate or history of editing. The point of the talk page is to show that you're learning from your past actions so that you can improve your future contributions. --Madchester 01:07, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the whole reason for this policy is so users don't feel branded with having the warnings glaring on their talk pages. I believe that every user has the right to improve themselves and comply with Wikipedia's policies. Also, the history of that user's talk page can easily recall missing warnings if need be. As for anon. IPs, it can be assumed that if they have a long user talk history that they are obviously unwilling to contribute constructive edits. MasterXC 16:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I came across User:Bijanse and User:World Wide Woman, and noticed both pages are entirely made up of nothing but links to copyrighted YouTube videos. I'm sure this is against policy somehow, but I wasn't sure how to take action, so I figured that I would leave a note here. On top of that, both pages look almost identical, which may suggest those are sockpuppet accounts. –Dream out loud (talk) 22:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Does GFDL apply to content posted to user pages?

If I post my own original writings to my user page, or sub-pages thereof, does that automatically mean that I am releasing them into the GFDL? Captain Zyrain 19:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. But you should also keep in mind that WP isn't a webhost. If you write articles, put them in the main namespace. Essays about WP and sandbox pages are OK in user space, but random writings probably are inappropriate. — Carl (CBM · talk) 20:04, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As Carl said. Yes. Mangojuicetalk 21:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

IP users, vandal warnings

Is it allowable for IP users to remove vandal warnings from their own talk page? If so, is it limited to old, stale warnings, or current ones as well? I do RC sometime, and there is a related conversaion here that I was following. I would guess that IPs removing vandal warnings that are "recent" (less than a week? a month?) should be inappropriate, as the IP talk pages aren't really theirs. What is the rule on that? • Lawrence Cohen 18:52, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Random deletions

Yes, anything that can slow down the summary deletions by self-appointed self-important deleters would be helpful in keeping Wikipedia relevant to people who need a quick reference to medical clinics or other services not supported by advertising of the pharmaceutical industry.

Perhaps the addition of and permanence of warnings, with a sufficient timeframe to prudently review would be good. Another idea I haven't seen is to give an allowance of one or two articles per individual person more leeway. This is self-limiting to a few billion people who wish to describe something that has more leeway and less imperitive to summarily quick deletion, and be in a different category, with less danger of overloading the system in their minds. And, when you think about it, every individual person who is adding their allowance article is adding to the value the readership and participation of Wikipedia.

Otherwise, it appears to me that what is happening is making Wikipedia less useful as a resource, in my particular case, for medical research, and both lives and limbs will continue to be lost, since the site has been compromised by self-appointed self-important deleters who replace individual judgment of the public with their own.

On the matter of "well, just write a book on it, or get an article in the local paper, or do advertising", this references a non-profit medical clinic providing Hyperbaric Oxygen therapy and referencing other facilities in the area, for the purpose of informing urgent medical care decisions of those who are about to get their legs amputated, and other conditions. This therapy saves that in 75% of the cases, as shown by peer-reviewed publication referenced in the article, and references on these types of clinics in general, and others in the area.

Such facilities don't advertise usually, have better facilities than the hospital (no kidding, they really do), and charge a fraction of the amount. This is simple reference material that can't be gotten by patients any other way, unless they are lucky enough to come across it. Otherwise, the effort required to fend of random deleters isn't worth it, and fewer articles important to the public health will get done. While those in healthcare who are not funded by the usual high-margin pharma and equipment houses do not have time to spare to get into long drawn-out arguments, in my experience they will happily follow guidelines for relevance, neutrality, references and clarity,if they truly care about public health, which nearly all do.

If we want Wikipedia to be a trusted and valued resource, this type of information needs not to be randomly deleted, or greater justificatio for deletion for the public good. Mgreenham 23:18, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

regarding Maharani Laxmi Bai medical college @wiki

Vivek99.iitk 23:01, 6 October 2007 (UTC) The information provided here is not accurate as this MLB medical college was established in 1968 not in 1988..please cooperate in emending the mistakes. I am a medicine graduate from this college only...if one has any reservations please feel free to discuss here. for further references kindly visit...www.mlbmcj.in thanks[reply]

Is it possible to remove the page name from the top of one's user page, like on the main page? –thedemonhog talk • edits • box 05:22, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Graham Ledger - Biography

Graham Ledger is in charge of marketing, communications and public relations for www.NetworkTalkRadio.com. It is a logical transition for someone who marketed himself for more than 20 years on television.  
   Graham anchored the news on television in Southern California for more than 15 years, becoming one of the most well known, well respected TV newsmen in Southern California. Graham is a two-time Emmy Award winner for best “news writing”. He’s also a two-time Golden Microphone winner.   
   Graham was also heavily involved in the Big Brothers and Sisters program.  He was named “Man of the Year, 2000” for Big Brothers for his decade-long series of reports on KFMB-TV.  In 2003, the San Diego County Board of Supervisors proclaimed April 7th as “Graham Ledger Day” for his work with abused children. 
   Currently, Graham sits on boards of directors for local charities, including Fr. Joe’s Villiage~Toussaint Youth Center and the Sullivan Foundation for Children. He also an active member of the PTA and volunteers his time at dozens of charitable events throughout the county each year.
   Graham went to San Diego State University, graduating in 1984.

Graham Ledger - Biography

Graham Ledger is in charge of marketing, communications and public relations for www.NetworkTalkRadio.com. It is a logical transition for someone who marketed himself for more than 20 years on television.  
   Graham anchored the news on television in Southern California for more than 15 years, becoming one of the most well known, well respected TV newsmen in Southern California. Graham is a two-time Emmy Award winner for best “news writing”. He’s also a two-time Golden Microphone winner.   
   Graham was also heavily involved in the Big Brothers and Sisters program.  He was named “Man of the Year, 2000” for Big Brothers for his decade-long series of reports on KFMB-TV.  In 2003, the San Diego County Board of Supervisors proclaimed April 7th as “Graham Ledger Day” for his work with abused children. 
   Currently, Graham sits on boards of directors for local charities, including Fr. Joe’s Villiage~Toussaint Youth Center and the Sullivan Foundation for Children. He also an active member of the PTA and volunteers his time at dozens of charitable events throughout the county each year.
   Graham went to San Diego State University, graduating in 1984.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by NetworkTalkRadio (talk • contribs) 19:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Talk Page Miscellanea

Hey all, I've come across a few users who have rather annoying HTML boxes on their userpages that have fixed positions and follow the reader all the way down the page. See [4], removed after I left a request on the user's talk page, and 2. As I said, I left a message on the first user's talk page asking him to remove it, and he did, but he also alerted the second user, who left a rather uncivil message on my talk page. However, this user raised a good point, which was that we don't have any policies against this. After a reading of WP:USER, I'm inclined to agree. However, it seems to me that we probably should, as these kinds of boxes are highly disruptive to reading the page. Thoughts? GlassCobra 13:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

MY OPINION

I say it shouldn't matter what a user has on it's userpage as long as They compliying with the other editing policies outside the userpage.--Monnitewars (talk) 03:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


WaltDaMan

WaltDaMan 12:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC) Only on my page......... What happens here stays here WaltDaMan 12:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

redirecting user page to another inexistant user

Hello, I was just wondering if it permitted to do like User:Ehistory has done ? When you go to his talk page or his user page you are redirected to User talk:Bushido and User:Bushido, this makes it harder to see his contributions. User:Bushido is an inexistent account (someone else might create it in the future and be confused by having a whole page full of warnings about uploading copyrighted material). Jackaranga 02:48, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

it seems like this shouldn't be allowed, but I can't find a specific policy against it...

What do y'all think? It's not quite inappropriate content, but it really isn't a valid user page either... heh.. --Jaysweet 21:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The user is obviously uninterested in improving the project. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to AIV after one more vandal edit. Still, though, what about the User page? From my contribs, it's obvious I'm not a persistent vandal, but what if I replaced my user page with 500k of "Jaysweet is totally awesome Jaysweet is totally awesome Jaysweet is totally awesome"? I mean, I would think at the very least WP would want to avoid that just for the server drain. Would it make sense to say something in WP:USER along the lines of, "Don't add several hundred kilobytes of data in user space that serves no purpose"? --Jaysweet 22:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That'd be covered under "Generally, you should avoid substantial content on your user page that is unrelated to Wikipedia." ·:· Will Beback ·:· 23:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a rule against redirecting a user page to an article?

Its seem the point is so that when you click on their name and click talk, you are really getting the talk page of some other article. Is having your user page anothing but a redirect to a standard encylopidia page acceptable?--Dacium 05:23, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't seem to be as cross-namespace redirects into the main space are permitted. That said, I would certainly support changing the policy to prohibit them as they are unnecessarily confusing. - Koweja (talk) 05:31, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My user talk or their user talk?

I can't seem to find any "guideline" or "etiquette" information that tells me "where to respond to a user talk entry." That is, if someone posts on my user talk page should I only respond there or should I also respond on their user talk page as well (since they will most likely not realize I have responded if I only respond on my user talk page)? —Noah 22:42, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Commonly, you reply in the other's page because it is the only way to have him notified via that ugly orange box. However, some users don't like the fragmentation, and keep watch of the talk pages they have modified to know when a reply is being made.
By default, always answer in your interlocutor's talk page, especially for new users and those who do not spend a lot of time here, where the notification is useful. -- ReyBrujo 22:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure I agree with this advice. I realise that users don't get the orange box if discussion is maintained on the "remote" UserTalk page rather than each user's Talk page, but it seems a small price to pay to keep discussions readable in the future. As it was mentioned earlier in this thread, many users will watch a user talk page in which they are participating in a discussion, which means they will be updated to changes even without an orange box. It is completely mystifying to me sometimes to read a talk page where the discussion includes half of a conversation. Perhaps if I eavesdropped on (half of) more mobile phone conversations, I'd better follow these threads. (-: Please excuse my adjustment of the indents in this thread, but I was trying to adjust the indents to keep each editor at a different indent level. Also please excuse my reincarnating this thread which was idle for a month. MKoltnow (talk) 03:38, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info. It seems this would be useful info for the User Page article -- I'm sure I'm not the only n00b that has found this confusing. Shall I go ahead and make an edit? —Noah 08:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noah Salzman (talk • contribs) [reply]

Please note that a lot of users will not like it when you suddenly move discussion to their talk page. Many even have a special notice such as "please reply on the same page, I'm watching".
Also, when responding on other person's page, most user do not include a link to original question, making the discussion difficult to understand for a third party ∴ AlexSm 14:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that it would be extremely beneficial to everyone if there was a general suggestion (not rule) that conversations should "continue on the page where they were started". The benefit of having to only look in one place seems to outweigh the cost of training new users to watch other-users talk pages. —Noah 15:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noah Salzman (talk • contribs) [reply]

Might be a good idea. On the other hand, one could hope that new users eventually learn that, seeing numerous "please reply where discussion started" notices. P.S. Noah, please make your signature link to your real user page or opt-out from the SineBot to avoid double edits on all your messages (see the bot page) ∴ AlexSm 17:53, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I answer in my interlocutor's page, but add a link to the diff in mine so that the conversation can be followed from it as well. Of course, if the user talk page is archived by moving the page, the link gets broken. You can always reply in both (reply in yours, then copy/paste it in your interlocutor's). It really depends on your taste, but unless the other says to answer in your own talk page, you should do it in his. -- ReyBrujo 03:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Account deletion

I want to delete my account as I created it only fo 2 weeks How can I do it?


MarketingHec (talk) 12:09, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User:Mchancellor

I think we should ask this to be deleted. How to go about doing that?Anshuk (talk) 02:59, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Start a discussion at WP:MFD (see that page for instructions). - Koweja (talk) 04:54, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks - Anshuk (talk) 05:05, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inappropriate content: Extremely offensive material

Is anything that is allowed on Wikipedia mainspace, such as Image:Doublepen.png, allowed to be on userpages? Also is a picture of a American flag burning is somehow extremely offensive? I didn't know because offensive is very subjective and I would consider the American flag not burning extremely offensive, so I didn't know how Wikipedia considers what is offensive and what is not. Thanks. —Christopher Mann McKaytalk 18:09, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • A lot would depend on context. Personal attacks are definitely not allowed, and making a user page deliberately offensive would be strongly frowned upon. That said, one man's deliberate offense is another man's freedom of speech. As I recall a userpage with a burning flag on it was recently nominated for deletion, but consensus opposed said deletion. The rule of thumb is: when in doubt, (1) kindly ask the user in question, and when that doesn't help, (2) ask a third party to comment. >Radiant< 23:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A colored userpage notice

Silly question...how do I make my userpage noticed colored? Thanks. Bardofcornish (talk) 22:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Appropriate to update defunct user pages?

Is it allowed to update a user page of someone no longer editing Wikipedia, so that it does not contain inaccurate statements (due to elapsed time)? -- Zanimum (talk) 15:38, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give an example of what you mean? --MCB (talk) 19:57, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That they hold a position at an organization, when in fact they have not held it for multiple months. -- Zanimum (talk) 19:20, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Right to vanish

Friday removed a substantial part of the right to vanish [5]. Is there any consensus for this removal? JoshuaZ (talk) 17:20, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I do not agree with this deletion. The reason given ("removing bit about "right to vanish". it's not relevant to deleting user talk pages") contradicts the meta right to vanish article linked in the original text, so I've restored it. Avb 18:35, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's useful and relevant and should be restored. Tyrenius (talk) 18:37, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We don't go around deleting user talk just because a user asks for it, do we? Right to vanish has precious little to do with deleting user talk pages on request. Anyone can hit "log out" and vanish any time they want- this "you must delete my talk page because I say so" nonsense is not helpful in any way I've ever heard of. I don't care what meta says, and I don't care what meatball says- I care about what is mostly useful to this wiki. How is it helpful to help users cover their tracks? Keep in mind of course, that people who claim to be vanishing very rarely actually vanish. Friday (talk) 17:04, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
PS. Also, for those who do care what meta says, it does not appear to be saying that user talk pages should generally be deleted. Friday (talk) 17:06, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is discretionary, but generally a courtesy extended to editors who wish to leave that their talk page is deleted if they request it. If they then return, their talk page can be restored, whether they want that or not, as its deletion was based on their leaving the project. Tyrenius (talk) 17:24, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I understand that people do it sometimes- a practice which I don't find useful. How does it help to delete the talk pages of editors who claim to be leaving? Friday (talk) 17:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How do I make a page of info?

How do i make a page of info? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MeganHealey (talk • contribs)

Er, what do you mean? Put the info on a page, and voila, there it is. :) EVula // talk // ☯ // 02:38, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User talk page font

Are users required (or expected) to use certain types of fonts, or can a user use any type of font on their talk page? --Son (talk) 19:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As long as it is not hard to read (very small, or mixing colors that may not be contrasting in foreground and background, like white and yellow, or blue and purple, etc) or just disrupting (like simulating hyperlinks with blue underlined fonts, or just too big), it should be safe. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 23:27, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Using more realistic example names

This has been a bug bear of mine for a long time. I get fed up with explanations which employ self-referential examples. This seems to be a consistent oversight on behalf of techies who know the material so well that they cannot see just how confusing such practices are. Suppose a writer decides to give the user an example of how he/she can start up a user page for themselves. Now, is it good policy to name this example “Example”, as the writer does in the article? No, it is not. To use ‘example’ as an example for an example is not a good idea. In fact it is, from about a hundred billion possible words, probably the LAST word you would want to use. It is quite likely that the reader will become confused as to whether the word Example, so used, POINTS to an example to come, or is in fact the example itself. There are any number of wacky, zany user names in WP, and a writer on such topics would be well-advised to choose, as a hypothetical example, the wackiest name possible, so that there can be no mistake as to whether such a name is an example of a user name, as such, or the official name for a field, or a generic name for all such similar fields.

Ironically, it is the text concerning in-house WP procedures, written by WP insiders, which consistently provides readers with material that is stylistically and grammatically amongst the most inferior in WP, and typically transforms what should be straightforward procedural matters into damn hard work.

Here’s an idea for WP big brass. Why not have a fictional WP user called, say, kimdoe? Readers can follow this guy/girl’s adventures as they set up pages, edit articles and all the rest. Now wouldn’t that be a lot clearer than trying to deal with someone called ‘example’? This is a people’s encyclopedia, so let’s try writing clear, concise English, not the semi-literate geek boy jargon often found here. I’d have a go fixing it up myself, but it’s kind of Catch-22. To do that, I’d have to understand it a lot better, and frankly, a lot of this stuff just doesn’t make good sense.

On a final note, why does the writer of the piece start with informing the reader that ‘Example’ will be used as the example name, but then provides no such explanatory note for the companion example name ‘Mypage’ And if we accept Example and Mypage as names of pages of a hypothetical individual, then what the hell is ‘lipsum’? My brain hurts. Notthere (talk) 05:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stupid Question (that I have to ask)

Stupid Question:

Why can't people put whatever they want on a User Page? It's a User Page, not a resource for information, and even for explicit materials there's no risk of linking to the pages by mistake (unless they set-up a link on a normal page which would just be vandalism). At most, I think that User's found to have "explicit" material should have some sort of warning attached to their user name, sort of like a spoiler warning. Other than that that the only other rule which makes sense to me is a ban on large file sizes, which is just for practical reasons.

Now...why am I wrong?

McBeardo (talk) 02:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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