User talk:Jza84

Welcome to the talk page of Jza84. You're possibly here because I've upset you... (sorry!).... Never-the-less, engaging in intelligent, civil and polite discussion will bring the best out from the both of us! I also ask you note the following: Please add new topics to the bottom of the page and sign and date your entries by inserting ~~~~ at the end. Unless otherwise noted (or asked) I will respond on your talk page, not mine.

To start a new talk topic, please click here.

Archives edit • E-mail 2006 J F M A M J J A S O N D 2007 J F M A M J J A S O N D 2008 J F M A M J J A S O N D 2009 J F M A M J J A S O N D 2010 J F M A M J J A S O N D

Adminship?

Wow am I gonna whack ya on BaH an Em! better rethink - You are a cool - but lets bust some —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bpeps (talk • contribs) 21:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

(To Rudget) Although I'm familliar with what the role entails, please allow me a little time to read through the material for the finer detail. I am honoured and flattered with the nomination proposal however, I assure you! I need to know if I'm right for this, and this is right for me! To be continued... -- Jza84 · (talk) 00:40, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Cool. Whatever you think is best. Failed RFAs are good because they let you experience the process, and successful RFAs are good because–well–the answer is obvious. :) Rt. 15:17, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm posting this message just to let you know, I'm researching the incident. I'll give a fuller report on my talk page in about 20 minutes. Rt. 16:17, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

 Done - It's long though! Rt. 16:42, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Berkshire logo

It was originally Image:Berkshire WikiProject Logo.svg done by Seaserpent⁸⁵ He left on the graphics lab page as it had a error - the big white square[1]. I'm just the one who got it working, deserving neither credit nor blame. Sagredo^{⊙☿♀♁♂♃♄} 23:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I liked the image, too, or wouldn't have debugged it. But FYI a message was placed on my talk page (and soon removed) (Took me a while to figure out why I had a new message banner and no message.)

"I noticed in WP:GL/IMPROVE that you mentioned that you wanted to use this image as a logo for a wikiproject. I would strongly discourage that. The usage of coats of arms is restricted in the UK. This is regardless of the copyright status of the image. We're free to display them anywhere as long as it's clear that they represent what they're supposed to represent, but using a registered coat of arms in a logo would be crossing the line." -- I. Pankonin

I'm on the wrong side of the pond to care about coats of arms, but thought you might like to know. Cheers! Sagredo^{⊙☿♀♁♂♃♄} 00:20, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Cambridgeshire

Sorry, it was me who prosed the revised template (with prior comments). I've now signed it so people can see who was saying what. The business of getting the revised one right meant it was a simple slip-up about the signing. Thanks for the comments on my talk page, which i have responded to.  DDStretch  (talk) 00:09, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Monarchy

ok i have bin here since july, but you bully a bit. I will support you on admin if you help to get Slough so much better than it is. If not will stalk all your berkshire articles until you do. Bpeps (talk) 00:55, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

ok no help with Slough, I won't attempt to help you. Bpeps (talk) 01:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

ok I know you have a lot of stars and would commend you as that. I meant could you have a look at Slough because it is rubbish and I cry every fukin article you are involved in. Do you not have a say? or our you only a bully on your pages? Bpeps (talk) 01:51, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I am deeply sorry, I have seen your name around on some of the articles I have filled through, bored from school this term. You are right - I am am not British born, although I am in year 12 (IV form at a grammer school here). I was brought up in Manor Park Slough and my iniatial ideas was to be exbanding Slough (which isn't the greatest article). I shall try to work on articles that contain british-indian and work them into English and leave your own articles alone. Do I need to finish my A levels for that? or just turn out sentences which are world english? Bullying I can pass over if I promise to stay on sub-continent articles or brit-asians? Bpeps (talk) 03:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Shaw and Crompton

With reference to your remarks on my talk page, I edit articles as I come across them, please do not take it personally.

Can you please say why you have reinstated the word town in the lead, when Shaw and Crompton is clearly a civil parish which does not have the status of a town council and mayor? I have reviewed the FAC, further to your edit summary, but can find no mention of it there. Also, I really do think the statement According to the national press, it had more millionaires per capita at its zenith than any other town in the world should have a reference. This is a featured article afterall and should represent the very best of the community's work. Chrisieboy (talk) 15:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Please take care not to make personal attacks against other editors, including accusations of acting in bad faith. You do not own the S&C article or WP generally, so please do not assume my actions were aimed at you.

Shaw and Crompton is a civil parish, it is not a town. The parish council does not call itself a town council or elect a mayor. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and we need to be accurate and consistent in our use of contested concepts.

As for Peterborough, it's getting quite unpleasant there, so I am trying to give it a break for a day or two so I can come back to it afresh. Chrisieboy (talk) 16:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Peterborough

As you will see I've put some comments & suggestions on the Peterborough talk page. Having put National parks of England and Wales on WP:FAR for lack of citations (it was promoted in 2004) & having to rebuild Bath, Somerset after is fall from grace - I wouldn't want another UK article to go the same way.— Rod ^talk 16:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Re. Great Work!

Hello and thanks for your kind words. I've only just got into Wikipedia after looking for something new to do with my (limited) spare time going into 2008. Haven't really got must time at the moment to create articles from scratch, but happy to add things like templates and infoboxes and pick up on any typos, errors etc. for places, topics etc. that I know something about! I live near Blackburn and office is in Manchester, though spend most of the time travelling all over the UK and do have an interest in geography and transport in particular. Have also lived in various parts of country so have already found myself editing articles over quite a wide geographic area. Enjoying it so far! Dallan72 (talk) 16:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

January Newsletter, Issue IV

Delivered on January 5th, 2008 by Jza84. If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add two *'s by your username on the Project Mainpage.

Just read the newsletter, great job. Although, Oldelpaso has admin status. :P Rudget. 10:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Great newsletter! I noticed 3 minor mistakes and corrected them. _└^and-rew_┘^┌_talk^┐ 14:48, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

First Leeds

Hi Jza84! I have placed a query on the Talkpage of the article about the inclusion of timetable and services. As this would have an impact on the First Manchester article and thus fall within the Greater Manchester wikiProject I wondered if you may like to add some thoughts on the subject? Richard Harvey (talk) 11:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Pictures from Flickr

I've found a really nice photo that would be perfect for an article. I remember you saying on Altrinchams FAC page that images under Creative Commons can be uploaded as long as the author is given credit. I have 2 questions: who do I credit (the user who uploaded it?) and once I click the 'Upload file' link is it ok to choose 'my own work' option and fill in the necessities from there? Thanks. Nev1 (talk) 01:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

In that case, I'm going to nudge you now. I've been having a look through for pictures under CC and found two good ones. The one I mentioned before and this one to replace the image in Hartshead Pike. The second one isn't so important, but I think it'd be good if we could use the first one. Nev1 (talk) 02:09, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Greater Manchester Wikiproject

Hey Jza84,
Thanks for your invite to the Greater Manchester Wikiproject, I've signed up! I live in Cheadle in south Stockport, so that's where I'll be focusing my edits on. I'm also interested on photography, so I'll hopefully be able to help on that side of things. Is there anything in particular which needs doing in the Stockport-related articles? Just give me a nod and I'll see what I can do. All the best. —PolishName 17:25, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Co-ordinates?

Hello Epbr123, I hope all is well,

I seem to remember you once advocated the inclusion of geographic co-ordinates mid prose for Geography sections of place articles. I believe you pointed to WP:CITIES standards. Was this ever codified? Eitherway, do you think it should be added to WP:UKCITIES? I was prompted to ask as they were removed from Wormshill earlier today. -- Jza84 · (talk) 00:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/Guideline#Geography currently states, "Although it is often included as a header or in the infobox, absolute positioning coordinates (eg. template:coor dms) can be included here." In my opinion coordinates should be included in the geography section, as they are very relevant to the section. We could see if there's consensus to put this in WP:UKCITIES. Epbr123 (talk) 00:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Further post on (User talk:Epbr123). ClemRutter (talk) 01:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)Which I am repeating below.
    • Agreed. They should be there. I have just done a Wormshill edit, and was concerned at the way that coord dms was followed in plain text by one in dec format. In the process Wormshill had changed hemispheres! No reference to Grid refs. I have written a convertor utility that converts gridrefs to gridref + coord dms, using Haworths algorithms, and there is a discrepancy due to OSGB36 WGS84. This does need to be discussed for consistency and accuracy. Also in Wormshill infobox we see a ten figure gridreference- ie 1 m accuracy- when 100 meter accuracy is appropriate for cityscale. There is a lively debate on these issues at Wikipedia:WikiProject Geographical coordinates. I think these should be consulted before any policy change application is made. My personal preference for UK articles is the system adopted in River Bourne, Kent as its easy on the eye and many UK source reference books already give the 6 figure grid ref.ClemRutter (talk) 01:43, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I am more than willing to write about the problems of inline geotagging for WP:UKCITIES but I have two problems
    1. Though I know a lot about the problems of translation between (OSGB36)Gridref and (WGS84) I haven't really formulated the solution- I have started on a good quickfix but haven't had the time to analyse which methods and maps are mathematically sound. So any proposal must be subject to wide caveats. Many members of the Geotag community aren't yet convinced that there is a problem. I want to be able to say that NEBody's solution is subject to an error of +- 11.2m in Kent, and +-8.7m in Stornaway, which is mathematically possible.
    2. I haven't fully examined the nature of the coord problem in WP:UKCITIES . As the class includes hamlets like Wormshill or Ightham and megahamlets like Manchester, I think my knowledge of custom and practice is a little limited. I need to research it a little more. I think that giving a 8 figure reference in line of a watermill in Faversham is justified, I am not sure I would do the same in Leeds, Yorkshire. There is also the issue of how the gridref appears in the infobox. It appears to be hand typed while it could be generated from the WGS84- and then there is the question of precision.
  • I will have a think are get back to you.ClemRutter (talk) 21:34, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

RfA thanks

Thank you for voting in my RfA, which which passed nem. con. with 45 support, 0 oppose, and 0 neutral. Thank you for your support and all the kind words that were expressed. I will try to live up to the trust placed in me by the community. I now have my homework to do and then pass the Marigolds.

Thanks for your support. Cheers Kbthompson (talk) 16:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Castleton

Thanks for adding Castleton, it's not a comprehensive list of castles in Greater Manchester but I don't think many have slipped under the radar. I replaced the reference you gave for one of my own which had information for the nearby Rochdale Castle. I think this is probably the castle referred to as it is pretty close, but it is on the wrong side of the river so it may not be. Nev1 (talk) 00:00, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: adopting new user writing about Fletcher Sibthorp

Well, my head is still spinning.

Thanks for adopting me, please bear with me...not just new to wikipedia but as you can see, any form of web 'talk'... I am historically a browser and google pure and simple.

I am going to thoroughly digest the tutorials, so that the questions I ask will be hopefully, a little further down the line... (like how do place pics etc). I'm guessing that if I do take a deep breath and GO FOR IT - ie create a new article, gather ref, start adding text etc and then SAVE it, someone isn't going to come along and delete it??!! I can then keep editing it until it's more complete (along with help from others) . Don't like the Sandbox at all. Is there any way of creating an article piecemeal and then saving it to my own user space until I'm ready to save it publicly?

I'm so frustrated by my lack of technical expertise and the fear of doing something wrong! ...and I'm mightily embarrassed that the whole world can see this...well, anyone on your talk page at any rate, but I DO GET the transparency and collaborative nature of wikipedia.

In terms of personal biographic information, how do you go about citing sources etc? What if the reliable source of information is the artist himself? In terms of the professional aspect of the artist ie exhibited work, published work ( prints/ books / exhibition catalogues ) as well as any articles, how do I go about citing the latter without it crossing into 'advertising' territory (as many galleries would sell his work?) Can I just insert external links to other web sites? So, if for example he has been written about in an article, I can put an external link to that http:address if it's on the www?

There are probably subtle ways to go about referencing ie citing, footnotes, links, but haven't quite grasped these yet,as you can see.

This artist has produced work that has either been specifically commissioned by publishing houses or bought under license to use on book covers. These may or may not be still in circulation as book covers tend to be redesigned every few years. Do I just ref. the publishing house / the author. I see there is already an entry for Fletcher Sibthorp for a John Fowles book cover (very bad picture!). I'm trying to get my head round all this legal stuff. Is a book cover image in the public domain, or do you have to obtain permission? Presumably, if I inserted just the painting/illustration used and not the designed cover, then the copyright of the image would belong solely to the artist.

Any picture of the artist's work I can obtain directly from him. Presumably he owns copyright, so would he then be credited each time?.

Thanks again.

Nicstick (talk) 13:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

new motto: be bold

I'm amazed at the speed with which you type. You must use all eight fingers plus two thumbs, I'm the two forefinger sort.

Anyway - thanks for that. I will make a start on my user page and thanks for the tip on my own sandbox - the other one was freaking me out - especially as there was a glych on Firefox, so now back on Safari. I'm guessing that when I think there is something worth looking at I can invite you to do so!

Watch me grow ( albeit slowly.....)

Nicstick (talk) 13:47, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Reply to a reply

is there a way you can 'reply' to a reply? (Without having to hit the 'start a new topic' button?) That way I don't have to think of a witty ( or not) new title.

If I go onto your talk area, why are your answers to me not visible? Just wondering.

One of my wiki:fears you have perfectly summed up. Namely that I, Nicstick, will singlehandedly bring down all articles on Wikipedia by accidentally hitting the wrong button. Actually I have read that editors can undo people's meddling, accidental or not, but nevertheless it's reassuring to hear it again!

I have been doing as you suggest - and looking at how other articles, esp, those of a biographical nature, to see how they have been constructed. Very useful advice. And the mud is beginning to clear - really!!!! I'm feeling good about this.

Does the magic Wizard of Wiki create an automatic contents box? Nicstick (talk) 14:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello. Hope I've understood the reply/indent bit properly! I've stuck a few things on my user page (very exciting) and I've made a start on writing the FS article on my sandbox. I don't understand why some things are highlighted in purple and some in blue. Duhhh. Also, the discussion tab at the top - what's that all about? Nicstick (talk) 12:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I meant the discussion tab when I'm on my sandbox page. But it's probably not that relevant! Thanks for explaining the purple / blue thing. How obvious - and I think I was already familiar with the 'already visited' idea of colour coded. You see, there I am again thinking it's something I've done wrong.

Thanks for your positive comments. It may be my first wiki draft but I had already started writing it in an Edit prog, so it's been kicking around for a while. Also, it's largely thanks to your earlier tips. I looked at how some of the feature articles were constructed and tried to learn from them. The date thing was a challenge as all the biographies I looked at were dead people! Re the verifiability bit. Hmm. Hence my earlier question about what if the source is the artist himself ie from the horse's mouth? ( I'm particularly referring to his specific interests and artists.) In terms of exhibitions at galleries, all that can be presumably verified by exhibition catalogues, though of course, they don't have ISBN numbers, even though they are legitimate records of an artist's work. Also there is a hard back book which covers his work from 1998-2005 and this DOES have an ISBN number. There are a couple of on-line magazines which have written articles and some trade magazines form the Print industry - still trying to collate all these. He does have a web-site. If the information is on there, would it be considered verifiable? Anyway, what do you do if something is not recorded on paper but is obtained as direct info from the subject/original source? Also I have some articles from old magazines, but how would you go about being able to cite them if you only have a hard copy and can no longer access them on archival web pages? Questions, questions.

I'm sure you've come up against things like this before??? cheerio and thanks - Nicstick (talk) 14:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Me again. Thanks for all your stuff on citations, notes etc. Minefield it certainly is. I am gradually adding any references where I can and at some point I'm going to have to decide what they are and separate them into citations/notes/references etc. (Or am I over-complicating everything?) One thing I can't figure out - if I have used the same e-magazine article for several points of ref in the FS article, do I just repeat the reference with lots of blue numbers, or is there a way to use the same ref number each time to refer to the same note below?

Sorry, does that make any sense? Can't get my head around it all and I must have read it all three times. SIGH. Meanwhile, I have discovered this programme called Zotero. (is this familiar to you?) It's a research programme built by researchers for researchers. I thought it might help me get round the problem of old articles etc that I have as hard copy reference but can't find on the www - as it has some sort of super server where you can post pdf's etc and is apparently wiki friendly. Anyway, I'm trying to understand that too, so my poor little brain is in need of a rest. When I get to a point where I think I'd like you to have another peek I shall alert you! BFN Nicstick (talk) 13:44, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Bury / Greater Manchester

Hi Jza84

Thanks for your note about my 'efforts' to assist with the Bury, and related pages. I have been putting in a bit of time on this as I was disappointed at what had been done so far. With no 'technical' knowledge of Wikipedia, a bit of trial and error, an interest in my home town and a few relevant books I have managed a contribution.

My concern is whether this is adequate but unless someone calls a halt I will carry on a bit yet. Therefore I hope to join the GM 'team' - if I can find out how to do so !

I was born and live in Bury and know a little bit about the place. I like the idea of improving its entry - so will carry on a bit at a time. No doubt contact with the GM team will help.

So thanks again for the contact and lets see how it goes

cheers

Jimet —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimet (talk • contribs) 19:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Jzy

I mate I wrote some shit on you page an it was all in jest and now some admins are sayin \I am a terrorist. I was jokin with you man. you know that thats why you help Slough article and I think I'm in shit cos they want let me get the rollback, they gave me and said I was so cussin you. Please mate can you explain that it was a joke and that I have help on Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bpeps (talk • contribs) 21:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Previous thing I cant understand. ok (a) applied for the new rollback button on history (Rollback|Undo), they gave it me, by when they read that I had cyber-coerced you into doing soming they reverted me back. (b) you know I was joking it was holidays (c)can you tell him what you feel about it (i) was i upsetting to you on Wikipedia (ii) on wikipedia would i not make this (Rollback|Undo) good.

Look, I know you have given the Slough article so much help now, I went the wrong way about it. It was not threatening and definatelyness a big joke as we all understand. If you can go to my talk page you can find the admin at the bottom of screen. Anyway my theory of the whole rollback debate if you make a potato an apple, potatoes don't like being apples again.

I know you will speak and so much thks E Bpeps (talk) 21:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I am no a half-wit who doen't know what a wiki is. ok. Yes everything is in the public domain. Yes i made 2 article and contributedcorrected 2 a few muslim ones. You know i was drunk that night waiting for my dad and I know I shouldn't have sworn but you swear too - Wikipedia is a spider of talk and you can spend allnight doing it.

I'm sorry you are disabled. my mother was disabled with rheumatoid arthritis and died shortly after I came here. There was no internet then and i think we only had tv after she died so i can understand you taking interest. but i think so i have seen you swear at people but i can't find them now.

That night i was drunk with two cans waiting for my dad to come home. alcohol can make even me brave. I had hoped that I could come on wikipedia after school at weekends but i think i've ruined it all now.

On wikipedia you don't have time i think so to look at things. I'm so sorry. i know you think I am not a half wit. I am doing my a levels. Come to slough one day - we still have grammar schools and Willliam Herschel Grammar school (not on wiki?) is better than the posh one on Slough Road, Eton.

Do you think they will take twinkle off me now? I'm only trying to use it at the moment.

Sorry EQK :-) Bpeps (talk) 22:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I really do need to spend some time working out what wikipedia IS - WP:NOT doesn't quantify the relationships which exist here. All relationships on Wikipedia are formed by working on articles together or finding people who share a similar interest and can prosaicly or otherwise give a push to an article.

My approach was incorrect, my parlez was obviously too direct. Is there actually a difference by saying what I want you to do directly or drip driping you wikilove and barnstars and approaching you with a suggestion? You did what I wanted although you thought you were being cyber-coerced into doing it.

Actually, I haven't seen you swear but you do WP:RAGE from time to time. Just let me go on and edit and prove I am good, but could you please show me how to archive my conversations with you - so that they are available but not readily.

Thanks for your co-operation in this matter.

Ehsan Quereshi Khan Bpeps (talk) 09:32, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Just one thing more "You are aware that the '84 in my username isn't my year of birth, but my first son's; I'm approaching 60 years old." so how can you account for this?A former life? and if you are going to tell me that your son and you are interchangable then goive me a moment to suspend disbelief! Bpeps (talk) 02:12, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Leeds

Thanks for wading in in the Leeds page move which appears to go against what other areas with a similar situation do. It also leaves the article being called Leeds city council but referring to City of Leeds throughout.

I could revert it but as being involved I would prefer another admin to do it.

Keith D (talk) 23:36, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I must say that I was surprised by the move I thought that the discussion had stopped it as there had been no activity there since before Christmas. I was also expecting that any move would have been processed by WP:RM.

The Yorkshire WP may have some input but PamD and myself are 2 of the active members who have already had input into the discussion. Keith D (talk) 23:56, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The redirect is WP:Yorks maybe should set up another one.

I suggested on the talk, in response to PamD, the quickest way is to raise it at WP:ANI for another admin to look at. If there is no response I will have to step in tomorrow to restore the status quo and request discussion before any move takes place. Keith D (talk)

Just to update - I ask another admin, Pedro, to take a quick look and he has just got back to suggest taking to WP:RM to get it reversed. Also noticed it leaves us with 2 articles on the council - Leeds city council & Leeds City Council. Keith D (talk) 15:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. PamD has started a move request at WP:RM with the discussion on Talk:Leeds city council page. I have also put a note on WP:Yorks to alert people to the discussion. Do not know how long it will take but the normal is 5 days unless it falls in to the backlog. Keith D (talk) 22:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to keep you informed, as the 5 days are up and it is unopposed, even by the original mover, I have restored this to City of Leeds and redirected the Leeds city council article to Leeds City Council. Keith D (talk) 00:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Geotags

Hi, I saw your entry on ClemRutter's talk page. Seems there is quite a bit of arguement about geotags and what should and shouldn't be linked etc. I've had a idea about linking though. Geotags link to Geo Hack, which carries a link to Geograph amongst others. If you look at the River Bourne, Kent page, I have linked the grid references to the relevant square on Geograph. This will make it easier to see whether any new images have been uploaded for that square, and thus easier to add them to the article if appropriate. What do you think? Mjroots (talk) 15:18, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I've not taken it to the Project talk page. My gut feeling is that there would be lots of unhappy bunnies if I did that. Is it worth a try then? Mjroots (talk) 14:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Bolder boundary around UAs in the county maps (low priority request!)

You are doing a great job with the county maps, what will you do when they are all done? I know - how about emboldening the boundaries around UAs? Gilding the lily a bit I know, but it would be real purdy. But only when you can't think of anything better to do. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I knew I was pushing my luck! Yes, I can imagine how much work is involved but, on the positive side, it has been a lasting and valuable improvement to Wikipedia. Your versions are clean designs, making the ones they replace (if any) amateurish in the extreme. Great work! --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Northamptonshire map

Great, that was a nice easy one to calibrate. Might you be able to add the M40 in? Then it's only two English counties to go, and I'm really looking forward to Wales. Meanwhile, progress on the reorganisation of the template looks good - I've proven to myself that the concept works; now, I'll tidy it all up and provided it all works, users shouldn't see any difference - but it should be smaller in size, more logically organised and easier to make alterations to where necessary. I hope! Warofdreams talk 10:01, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Rollback

Hello Jza84, I have granted rollback rights to your account. The reason for this is that, after a review of some of your contributions, I can trust you to use rollback correctly by using it for its intended use of reverting vandalism: I do not believe you will abuse it by reverting good-faith edits or to revert-war. For information on rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback and Wikipedia:Rollback feature. If you do not want rollback, just let me know, and I'll remove it. Good luck. Acalamari 20:24, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. :) Good luck. Acalamari 21:14, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Formula One infoboxes

Hi there, I have reverted the use of the flag in the Formula One infobox at Lewis Hamilton. All F1 drivers have the F1 infobox, and the flag icons are used to show the country they represent(ed) as sportsmen. The use of the flag is not merely decorative, nor is this a biographical infobox. Please discuss any issues you may have at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One, where Formula One issues are thrashed out. Thanks. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:04, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response. Whether or not you agree with the logic, this convention has lasted a long time already, and I suspect it will continue. There are flag icons in all the Formula One infoboxes, and there are several hundred of them. Your attention to one of them merely creates an inconsistency, and I doubt you have any interest in changing all of them. There may have been a consensus reached on it, but it was no doubt before my time, and there are dozens of pages of archived discussion. I am not about to sift through them to look. As I have said, it would be best to direct your concerns towards the WP, where people may know more about the consensus. For your information, Colin McRae was not a Formula One driver, so the WP has no direct interest or influence on that article.

Regarding your second paragraph, I find your accusatory, lecturing tone rather irksome, and I would like to reiterate my preference that you direct your comments to the WP. Several of the WP's articles have reached FA status already, including driver articles, and no problem has been encountered. You are, as far as I know, the only editor who has raised this issue. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, firstly I'll address the issue of my edit summaries. The first one was a little ambiguous, but the two summaries amount to the same thing. The part of the MOS I am referring to is where it talks about the difference between legal nationality (or citizenship, birthplace, deathplace etc etc) and the nationality as represented when the sportsman is competing in his chosen field. I quote:

"Use the flag and name of the country (be it a state or a nation) that the person (or team of people) officially represented, regardless of true citizenship, when the flag templates are used for sports statistics and the like."

There are many instances of this being implemented in articles that include sporting results, the F1 WP uses them in infoboxes. Many Formula One drivers represent(ed) countries which they are/were not citizens of, and several are/were dual citizens. Nico Rosberg is one article where flag icons are frequently changed in error because Rosberg represents a different country than his father Keke Rosberg did. In the F1 infobox, the "nationality" link leads to an article on the racing licence - the nationality and the flag icon refer to the "racing nationality". It is strictly a sporting reference, not biographical, which, if I understand you correctly, is the instance in which you believe flag icons are not desired. For what it's worth, I agree with you on that point, and I frequently remove flag icons from articles on musicians, for example.

You did ask where the discussion took place, and if you read my comments again, you'll see that I said there "may" be a discussion. I did not say it existed. I also said that I would not be looking for it. I repeat, the place to ask is the WP. I am not familiar with the origins of the myriad policies of the WP, I merely follow them. Or at least I did before too many of them were abused. You say that flag icons in infoboxes are not appreciated; I may have missed where it says that in the MOS. I see that they are not for use in the article prose, but I do not see a recommendation against their use in infoboxes. For example, this quote:

"The flag icons were created for use in lists and tables (especially of sporting and other statistics), and have subsequently found widespread usage in infoboxes."

is not accompanied by advice to refrain from using flag icons in infoboxes. I would also venture to suggest that the MOS is really quite ambiguous in places. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Middleton, Greater Manchester

Thanks for helping with Middleton. I was becoming a bit worried that I might find myself blocked for a WP:3R violaton. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:ANI

First off, just like to make it clear that I am not an admin. Otherwise I would've dealt with the harrassment situation myself. Unfortunately seeing as the conversation on ANI grew so long few admins wanted to read through it and deal with it. Read WP:STALKING, see what it says there to do if you're being harrassed. Until you work out what to do, I suggest you ignore him and remove any communications from him. Delete any emails etc. - Out of sight, out of mind. He's just looking for attention; don't give it to him ;-) - Please message me if you require any assistance for anything, friend. Take care. Scarian^{Call me Pat} 11:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment#Set_up

There's a message for you there. I figured I'd best let you know as you may no longer be watching the page. Cheers. --kingboyk (talk) 13:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC) (Don't reply to me personally pse)

Whatever happened to consistency?

I noticed your comment in the ongoing saga of the FLC for Grade I listed buildings in Greater Manchester fiasco, and by chance I just came across this, a list featured last October.

Guess what? It uses the same percentage column widths for exactly the same reason and uses the same referencing system. Whatever happened to consistency? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:05, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

doubling up on sources / wikiprojects

Hello! Everything is OK thanks, just been horrendously busy. Back on the case. Thanks for all the suggestions on not doubling up on my ref. I had previously gone on to a wiki page - Referencing for beginners to try and sort out the problem, but couldn't get it to work for me. You seem to have tackled it in a slightly different way, so will try yours. (Historically you have always led me up the right path, so here's hoping). I may have asked you this next question before. If so, please forgive me. I have a really interesting article from 1996, part of which is an interview with FS, but it's old and the magazine no longer exists. Well, it does but under a different banner. Anyway, I want to use it as reference/citation. I was wondering - 1. if it's so old and therefore very difficult to access - how can it be in any way useful to corroborate info...and 2. with this in mind, if I scanned the hard copy of the article and made it into a pdf, how could I then make THAT accessible or useful for verifiabilty. I suppose there's a third question there - is that necessary?

I'm feeling a bit bogged down by all this citation stuff. In a nutshell, what is the difference between attribution, reference, citation and notes. I am not clear at all (as you can see).

Re your suggestion on the WikiProject (vis arts). Would that mean I have to move my pending article out of the comfy Sandbox that I am 'hiding in' and submit it. I had a brief look. Maybe I ought to have a better look before I start asking silly questions, but anyway, there it is.....

Cheerio for now...on, on Nicstick (talk) 14:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Me again. Yippee! I got it to work!! (that is, repetitive referencing) THANKS! Nicstick (talk) 18:11, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Boroughs and cities

Hello. My understanding is that the status of borough is entirely separate to city status and that all the metropolitan districts constituted in 1974 inherited borough status from an earlier municipal borough. The LGA72 makes provision for this, see Borough status in the United Kingdom. It would normally be expected that the metropolitan districts would simply refer to the district and council by their highest honorific title (City of xxx, Metropolitan Borough of xxx, xxx City Council, xxx Metropolitan Borough Council) but I know there are exceptions like Bradford who use the form of Bradford Metropolitan District Council (i.e. ignoring both borough and city status) and City of Bradford Metropolitan District. [2] - compare with Leeds. [3] MRSC • Talk 17:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)