Talk:Jeb Bush

For older discussion, see archives: 1; Jeb Bush Jr; Noelle Bush

Useless Link

I'm not Wiki-savvy, so I won't go trying to fix this myself (I'm afraid I'd probably delete the wrong thing or something); but the 14th endnote leads to a CNN page that doesn't exist anymore. I don't know what the policy is about expired references, but just thought I'd mention that. 69.153.19.102 23:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

"Honorable"

Jeb Bush does not have the title of "Honorable". No other Governor of Florida has ever held that title. In the United States, "Honorable" is a title reserved for the judiciary, as in the Honorable William Rehnquist. Therefore, it has to be removed.--Mtrisk 21:28, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In the interest of keeping people from having to wade through the mess that is the archive of this talk page, allow me to paste in some comments that others have made in the past on this subject. --BaronLarf 01:39, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

Pasted discussion from the archive

In the US, "Honorable" is reserved for judges and judges alone. not political leaders of parties. also, as Noam Chomsky says: "I don't hate the US. I love the US. I think it's the greatest country in the world. You are confusing my critique of the leaders of the US with hate and you are branding it as un-patriotic." Project2501a 14:27, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Every American school child is taught that when writing to a Congressman, Honorable is the accepted form of address, and that will in fact get the letter read and responded to quicker. A Governor, in the United States, is not a political leader of a party, he is a fiduciary or trustee. Just as I don't pretend to understand the fealty of the British system, I would hope British partisans would leave us Americans to resolve our own partisan differences and not foster the transatlantic dispute any further unnecessarily. Nobs 20:08, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with the correctness of titles, but with their usage in Wikipedia. My understanding is that most titles, especially honorifics, aren't used, or that when they are they're abbreviated (especially in image captions and the like). In any case, the issue of "honourable" is pretty trivial, and surely not what all the above posturing and bad rhetoric is about. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:34, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Speaking of which, there's a vote going on right now: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)/Survey on Style-Prefixed Honorary Titles. It's awfully heated, though, so you'd better be sure you mean anything you post. — Asbestos | Talk 21:42, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for alerting me — I hadn't noticed. I see that the current favourite (as it were) is "The formal style of address should always be provided in the introductory paragraph of the article, but only after the name is provided, and not otherwise prefixed". If you can't have democracy, voting is the next best thing. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:10, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Three simple examples: A Congressman, The Honorable Newt Gingrich (FBI letter to Gingrich) [1]; A Senator, The Honorable Hilary Rodham Clinton [2]; a Governor, The Honorable Bill Richardson, (2008 Democratic Presidential hopeful, from 2004 Democratic Convention Speaking schedule) [3]. Dispite all the stereotypes Europeans have about Americans, we actually aren't that crude and crass in our civil dealings with one another. Nobs 16:21, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea what all this stuff about the U.S. and Europe has to do with it all. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:28, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Assuming the original premise is correct, that a Brit removed "Honorable" title from Jeb Bush's office. Personally, I don't feel the necessity to investigate every users credentials, unless there's an unfounded rumor or innuendo. I prefer the focus on subtance of the discussion. As an aside, don't you find interesting the DNC use of the title "Honorable" on the entire list? [4] After reading through the entire list of "Honorables" (General Wesley Clark excepted), one finds at the bottom John Kerry (not even listed as Senator John Kerry). Truelly, this is typically American. Kindest regards Nobs 20:57, 16 May in the Vulgar era 2005 (UTC)

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This discussion is all very well, but the comment at the top of the page needs to be answered if the title is to be reinserted in the article. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 1 July 2005 09:34 (UTC)

Supreme Court of Florida addresses the Honorable Lawton Chiles, Governor of the State of Florida [5]. The Hon. Peter Deutch in the House of Representatives commends the Honorable Lawton Chiles, Governor of the State of Florida, for proclaiming Race Unity Day in Florida [6]. Florida Corrections Commission Chairman cover letter to the Honorable Lawton Chiles for the Report on Execution Methods Used by States [7]. Nobs01 1 July 2005 19:54 (UTC)

[8] Here is the UMW writing sheet on this subject. Governors are entitled to "The Honorable"74.193.235.188 15:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

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Section Eight

Article 1, Section 8 US Constitution says that Americans may not accept titles. Perhaps this refers to not being allowed to inherit a title, but still being allowed to inherit property.

Whatever. Recently during Supreme Court hearings one of the judges objected because the lawyer did not say address his comment to a "Justice". He insisted upon being called "Justice" Judge Kennedy then pointed out that the US Constitution also makes that mistake.

Bohemian Grove Society

Does anyone know if Jeb Bush is a member of the bohemian grove society? I've heard that he was. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.250.145.30 (talk • contribs) 07:57, 7 June 2005.

Biased statement, factual inaccuracy, one excision

unsupported statement

"Like most Republicans, he is perceived as being generally pro-business, and has worked to repeal several taxes in Florida." Left intact as it seems likely true, but if some documented examples could be provided it would be a Good Thing.

change

"Some opponents have questioned whether he or Secretary of State Katherine Harris attempted to help his brother in the 2000 presidential election, in which his brother's victory over Democratic candidate Al Gore was secured through a complicated process of recounts and court battles in Florida."

There is no requirement for anyone to be an "opponent" or "supporter" to observe the controvery surrounding Jeb and Katherine in the 2000 election.

Further, the 2000 election was secured by the Supreme Court's decision and George Bush's Campaign Co-chairman. The votes were officially left uncounted and the Florida courts were cut out of the picture altogether.

This has been reworded to: "Some observers have questioned whether he or Secretary of State Katherine Harris attempted to help his brother in the 2000 presidential election by tampering with the voter roles and then certifying a controversial election."

removal

"They have also pointed to Bush's daughter Noelle Bush who successfully completed rehabilitation for her drug abuse."

Further comment about is daughter's rehabilitation would we welcome concerning this statement from the same paragraph. In the context of this paragraph is seem irrelevant at best or completely out of place at worse. In its presentl wording it sounds like an accomplisment, not a criticism. It should be placed in his bio, or his daughter's bio, not with criticism of his Governorship. If there is more to this story that justifies its presence, please expand on it and add it back to the main article. --Mccabem 17:41, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Moved section

I copy-edited and wikified the following section, but then thought that it's not really needed:

==Bush and EA Tiburon==

Jeb visited EA Tiburon to see Madden NFL 06's gameplay and new features. The Tiburon team added a little surprise in the video demonstration: Jeb and George Bush are the players in a clash between the Miami Dolphins and the Dallas Cowboys. Jeb burst into laughter because the video shows Jeb tackling George and then Jeb went for touchdown. The video of the Bush brothers is not available in the retail version. Jeb received an autographed copy of Madden NFL 06 for XBOX and two DVD copies of the Bush vs Bush video. Jeb is a big fan of football and video games.

It's just one of probably thousands of visits made by a serving politician to a company, complete with the usual "human interest" details for the purposes of Pres Releases. Am I missing some deeper significance? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:57, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Anglicanism and Catholicism

How could his wife have persuaded him to covert? The churches are nearly the same (see page 21 of The Unfinished Nation: A Concise History of the American People, 2nd edition, by Alan Brinkley).--HistoricalPisces 17:56, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Are you joking? Anglicanism may be closer to Catholicism than any other Protestant movement, but it's still Protestant. --Saforrest 01:13, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

No, Episcopalianism/Anglicanism is not Protestant. Episcopalians do not consider themselves Protestants in any technical sense. Episcopalianism cannot be traced back to the Protestant Reformation. Episcopalians are indeed often referred to as Protestants, by people who assume all non-Catholic Christians must necessarily be Protestant by definition. But that is not the case. Episcopalianism represents an anomaly. This page should refer to Jeb Bush as having been a former Episcopalian, not a former Protestant.

On-line Criticism of this Wiki

A history of an ex-user's editing of this site is on line.
Click for on-line criticism (SummerFR on Jason Scott site)

IMO, it's mostly a rant, but see what you think... CPMcE 10:51, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Strangely mellow

As is, the article is neutral, but strangely lacking in information at certain key places. For example:

He started a non-profit organization called "The Foundation For Florida’s Future" which was described by some as a "think tank". Its stated mission was to influence public policy at the grassroots level.

There's nothing disputable with the above, but no information on how it tried to influence public policy is provided. From the fact that Bush was involved in it, and from its support for charter schools, I suppose it was a conservative think tank, but this isn't explained, even though it could be neutrally said. This pattern reappears throughout the article. --Saforrest 01:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

fact

Did Jeb Bush really have an influence in the 2000 presidential election? This article [9] states that he was not involved Green caterpillar 00:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

WP's article on the election notes criticism of his interference with the recount. --Flawiki 01:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Adoption?

Jeb Bush's kids are not adopted, why does it say that in the article?

It's part of a conspiracy. We just figured you weren't cool enough to know about it, so we didn't tell you.--65.31.150.139 04:29, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Minorities

In the UK media it was stated that in the 1994 election, in response to a question as to what he would do for Black people in Florida if elected, Jeb Bush was reported to have replied "Probably nothing", which had a great deal to do with his loss in that election. Is that true/verifiable? Legis 13:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes - it is true.

NY Times Feb 4, 2000 - Article Headline - "Jeb Bush Roils Florida on Affirmative Action"

"Bishop Victor T. Curry, pastor of the New Birth Baptist Church in Miami and president of the Miami-Dade County branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, recalled Mr. Bush's defeat in his first race for governor six years ago and his statement then that he would do probably nothing to help African-Americans."

NY Times April 21, 2002 - Article Headline - "America in Extremis"

"In 1994, two years after his father lost the White House, Jeb Bush decided to run for governor, though he ultimately lost to the incumbent, Lawton Chiles. (In the same election year, his brother unseated the incumbent Ann Richards to become governor of Texas.) Jeb Bush's campaign was reportedly disorganized, and one comment in particular did little to endear him to undecided voters: when asked what he might do for black Floridians if elected, he responded testily, Probably nothing. In 1998, having tried to make amends with black voters and casting himself as more moderate, Bush ran again, in more disciplined fashion, and won handily." —Preceding unsigned comment added by BluePenEditor (talk • contribs) 02:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Noelle Bush drug scandal

Jeb Bush's daughter (and presidential niece) Noelle Bush was arrested in 2002 for fraudulently obtaining a prescription for Xanax. During her time at the rehabilitation facility, Noelle Bush was jailed for contempt of court twice; first, for stealing prescription pills from a nurses' office, and second, for being caught with crack cocaine.

These incididents occurred during Jeb Bush's current term as Florida governor and became highly politicized as an example of the double-standard applied to drug users from powerful or wealthy families. The Salon.com article referred in Jeb's article specifically discusses the issue. I feel that Jeb Bush's Wikipedia article is doing a disservice to its readers by not mentioning this controversy. Adversive 14:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Lt. Gov

I agree with the (hidden) note in the article about the section on lieutenant governors being too long for an article on J. Bush, but if it is left as is, could someone who actually knows something about the history of Florida politics please clarify "...Brogan ... opted not to serve a second term. Brogan was reelected to a second term in 2002 with Bush and then resigned..." Does this mean that he went into the election planning not to serve his term if elected? (If so, that could be stated.) Or that he made up his mind after election but before inauguration? (In which case the sentences are out of order, as they imply a chronology.) Or that he changed his mind after inauguration? (Also out of order.) In any case, can someone provide a reference to this? I simply looked on the Frank Brogan article and found less about this matter than on the JEB page... Did not chase it off-wiki, as I'm sure that some of the many (!!) people who follow this article already know the details... Pawl 15:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Southern Governors Association

Florida's Governor is not listed at the SGA wiki page nor is Florida's governor listed at the website for the SGA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.176.204.116 (talk • contribs) 20:25, 24 October 2006.

Agreed. I removed that from the article, and broke up that section into two. (The section was headed Florida Cabinet but dealt with other things, also.) Probably the new section as it stands now is too trivial to remain, but I'll let others decide that. This is not an article where I want to make changes to content without discussion. Pawl 21:10, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Governors of Florida

The category box, is in error, Crist hasn't taken office yet. At the least, his name should be listed as 'Crist (elect)'. GoodDay 17:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Jeb Bush

I don't understand your talk page. I'm not a historian or an editor, I am just a Floridian who wishes any encyclopedic portrayal of Jeb Bush to be accurate.

Please reference the article Stephen Pizzo wrote for Mother Jones in March/April 1994 issue titled Whitewashing the Bush Brothers, as well as the 1987 Wall Street Journal article about Jeb Bush that Pizzo referred to.

Please reference an article written by Howard L. Simon, published in the Daytona Beach News Journal in January, titled "Jeb Bush legacy: Unflattering view".

Please reference news articles on Martin Lee Anderson and other youths who did not survive the juvenile justice system, and re-instate the information on Noel Bush's criminal history. The significance of her incarcerations is that they caused her no harm. Please reference Jeb Bush's remarks on the record concerning his approval of justice being slow for the Anderson family.

Please reference news articles on Jeb Bush failing to honor Wilton Dedge's request for an investigation into prosecutorial misconduct. Prosecutorial deployment of prison snitch Clarence Zacke cost Mr. Dedge 22 years of his life, but cost Gerald Stano his very life.

Please reference articles on Jeb Bush allowing the FBI and municipal police departments to target peace protestors as potential terrorists.

Please reference articles that balance your biography. SusanChandler 04:59, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Reversion

I have reverted ACV777's edit as it appears to remove accurate information from the article and replace it with false information, e.g. removing the reference to the "15 years" that Terri Schaivo was on a feeding tube and replacing it with "a brief time". 15 years may be a brief time in the context of the lifespan of the universe, but it is a relatively long time for a person to be on a feeding tube. Cheers! bd2412 T 20:29, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Full marks for you. Extremely sexy 12:12, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Fictional depiction

Jeb is depicted as a mentally retarded child with an uni-brow in the Comedy Central animated television show "Lil' Bush". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Angry B. Hinds (talk • contribs) 21:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

So what (if true) then? Extremely sexy 22:19, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Environment

Who wrote this section? Was it some PR company working for Jeb? This section is awfull someone should unlock it and rewrite it. Jeb Bush's policy on environment was in reality very bad. You can see some of his environmental "achievements" on this site: http://www.sierraclub.org/wildlands/everglades/everglades_restoration.pdf Please! Someone needs to seriously rewrite this. It is a pure joke in the state in which it is now. The starting line is a serious killer "Bush signed legislation to protect the Everglades and opposed federal plans to drill for oil off the coast of Florida. In early October 2005" LOL oh please give me a break! Maybe it was not written by PR company, maybe internt of his has his hand in this —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.42.147.146 (talk) 20:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Problems

The sections on John Ellis Bush, Jr. and Noelle Lucila Bush look like little more than attack pieces. Is the only thing notable about these persons related to their infractions of the law?--MONGO (talk) 18:17, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. What do his children's legal infractions have to do with him anyway. I think it is best that we remove these sections because they have little relation to Jed Bush. (They do not mention Jed's role in the incidents. What did he do about them etc.) Do we include personal information about the children of most politicians? I'm pretty sure we don't. It is typically not standard Wikipedia policy to discuss a guy's kids in his own wikipedia page. These are little more than attacks that should be removed.

Who's Jed Bush? 72.211.203.64 (talk) 05:52, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Political Future

The section has him as only getting 56 votes by the Hispanic community and 80 votes by the Cuban, which I'm guessing should be percentages in reality. But I can't change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.137.230.39 (talk) 03:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Unclear Wording

"He has received media attention on two occasions: in 2000, at age 16, he was caught having sex in a Tallahassee, Florida, mall parking lot with a 17-year-old girl" Makes it sound like Jeb was 16-years-old in the year 2000. 72.211.203.64 (talk) 05:51, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Public Views and Perceptions

Should there be a section for this? Many people consider him unintelligent and satirize the opinion(see Lil Bush for an example. Perhaps an "In Popular Culture" section? Max.goedjen (talk) 09:42, 20 July 2008 (UTC)