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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Hizrael (talk | contribs) at 16:53, 17 August 2008. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive


The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 19:19, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone add that because of her Russian good looks and her winning the all-around gold medal, Nastia has the potential for serious endorsement deals and other business deals? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.75.69.114 (talk) 15:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Non neutral point of view

Under Junior Career, this lines appears: "Nastia Liukin is the best known gymnast in the galaxy. Unfortunately, she takes that for granted." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Euphorya (talk • contribs) 21:53, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pulling that out. It was just a drive-by IP posting, from the look of it--not anything any of the editors here would have taken seriously or allowed to remain. DanielEng 22:48, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

She is said to be engaged to Driver F drummer Jeremi Mattern of Austin, Texas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaggedjem (talk • contribs) 09:39, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2005 Worlds

The following information has been pulled out of the article as "unsourced POV" twice: technically accumulated the same total as Chellsie Memmel, but a scoring system that truncated the individual apparatus marks, as opposed to using the full scores or rounding up, artificially lowered Liukin's total score and she placed second.[1] [2]

  1. Two sources have been given.
  2. It is not POV, since it is a factual reporting of the situation with the score.
  3. It was (and still is, three years later) one of the controversial moments of the sport, and should be reported.

Please remember that the burden of proof lies with the editor deleting information. Things should not be taken out of an article when they are sourced and factual, even if an editor does not personally agree with them.DanielEng (talk) 21:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neither of your sources support your proposition. The scores are reported so I don't understand the concern. If it was so widely known, then perhaps you can source something that actually supports what you're saying. If you, or others, feel that scores should be "rounded up" then provide a source for the information. Also, just because someone removes unsourced information (that you don't agree with) doesn't make them a vandal. Agrippina Minor (talk) 22:28, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You're not even interpreting what is said in the article correctly. It's not "my proposition" as I didn't even add that info to the article originally; I was the editor who checked the links when they were live to ensure it was accurate. No one is saying the scores should have been rounded up; the text was reporting what happened. Given that the scores were close and the situation generated press from IG, it's relevant enough to be reported here.
And one of the sources was a dead link, but that does not mean it was irrelevant or an unreliable source; it means the source went offline. As per WP:SOURCE, a source does not lose its reliability or validity when it goes off the Web. I'm not sure how you claim you could have read it and decided it didn't support the position, considering it was a dead link. It is not policy to take something out of an article or consider it "unsourced" when a citation link is dead. And even in the case of unsourced information, the courteous and accepted policy is to either request a new citation or post a note on the Talk before slicing-and-dicing an article, unless it's obvious libel or was placed by an editor who is obviously trolling and vandalizing.
At any rate, the revised link is here; [1] and the relevant text, which very clearly provides a reliable source, is: At the 2005 Worlds in Melbourne, she technically tied teammate Chellsie Memmel for the all-around title, but was bumped to second because of a truncated scoring system that cut .001 from her total score.
The other link was: [2]; the relevant text was: (And I'm still giving that title to Liukin, who tied Memmel for the 2005 gold in Melbourne, and then was bumped to second when the scores were truncated via a senseless rule.)The second piece is an op-ed, but the statement of the rule, and that Liukin was bumped to second, is fact. It is also by a different writer, ie, the score situation was not a figment of Amanda Turner's imagination.
Removing chunks of text from an article without verifying it with anyone, requesting a source or talking it over is disruptive and isn't even remotely fair or respectful to the other editors who have worked on the page. Not to mention that when you rip a footnote out of the article, you orphan any other citations in the article which use it. DanielEng (talk) 01:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Nastia Liukin/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Lead
  • I would be tempted to move the second and third par round.
  • wl 2008 Beijing Olympics to the most appropriate link.
Early life
  • Do you have any references for the first par?
Junior career
  • Is there a wikilink for all-around?
  • Reference 12 isn't formatted correctly.
2005-2006
  • "Liukin tied with teammate and frequent competitive rival Chellsie Memmel" Not sure you need the full description of Memmel again, perhaps teammate will do. Also you don't need to repeat her first name so soon after her last mention.
  • "However, due to an ankle injury sustained in training before the competition began, she was only able to compete on one event, the uneven bars, at Worlds." Do you need to say "at Worlds" since you've just mentioned them the previous sentence.
2008
  • "16.6 on the uneven bars" and "16.65 on the uneven bars". How come this doesn't follow the normal policy of "16.600 on the uneven bars" and "16.650 on the uneven bars"?
Competitive history
  • This should start with her oldest competitions. I.e Junior at the top right, with that section arranged from 2002 to 2004, down to 2008 at the end.

A few things to do, but nothing substantial, so I'll put it on hold. Peanut4 (talk) 12:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for all your help and for reviewing the article! :) I've made all of the changes indicated here--for the competitive history, I couldn't figure out how to work with the table to move years, so I replaced it with another, easier-to-read table. DanielEng (talk) 15:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you want, I'll restore the old one and correct it to the right order? Or do you want to keep the new one? Peanut4 (talk) 17:58, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
On reflection, the new one looks better and takes up less space, so I think it'd be best to stay with it. Thank you for offering though! :) DanielEng (talk) 16:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Everything looks fine. But as with Alicia Sacramone, I'll keep it on hold until after she has competed at the Olympics, partly to meet the stability criteria. I'll keep both GAs and the pages on my watchlist, but just drop me a note when you're ready to complete the review. Peanut4 (talk) 00:30, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Everyhting looks pretty good, however the combination of the Olympics and the page being protected means at the moment it will fail stability. Secondly a good article shouldn't really be protected, particularly not while being under review. So unfortunately I'm going to fail it. Pre-Olympics everything was in place, so there is little more (if anything) that is needed to bring it up to GAN standard in my opinion. My suggestion would be to wait say two weeks and then re-nominate the article once it has been unprotected and it becomes stable again. Peanut4 (talk) 21:38, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. I thank you for your help here, but I disagree with this. I thought the original agreement mentioned above was to wait until the end of the Olympics to pass/fail this, on the understanding that the article was going to be going through some changes. Also, I don't think protection should come into play here--there are plenty of FA and GAs that do need to be protected from IP vandals, simply because they are about public figures and receive a lot of traffic. Also, in rechecking the GA criteria, I don't see protection being listed as a reason to fail. Is there any way to request a second opinion on this? DanielEng (talk) 21:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
ETA: I've put in for a reassessment. DanielEng (talk) 21:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Her routine song

I would like to know what song (the one she uses on the floor and the one she just won the gold medal all-around with) is. Thanks. Smuckers It has to be good 05:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have heard it was a remix of "Dark Eyes" by Devotchka. Supposedly she used it after hearing it from one of Sasha Cohen's (figure skater) routines. I just checked and it seems it has its own wikipedia page as well.

About her surname

Hi, I'm a little confused: is it standard English to drop the -a from a Russian-born woman's last name? As you probably know "Liukin" is masculine and "Liukina" is feminine. --71.112.145.102 (talk) 08:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's an article somewhere (it might be in the references) that states that when the family came to the USA, they all took the form 'Liukin' for their English-language names to avoid confusion. She's still 'Liukina' in Russian. DanielEng (talk) 13:30, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's no redirect at Nastia Liukina or variations thereof. 70.51.11.210 (talk) 04:03, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There wouldn't need to be. It's not a name she has ever used in English and it's not a name anglophone readers would normally think to search for. The Russian version of the page, which is linked on the left, has her Russian name. DanielEng (talk) 04:07, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

reference for music authorship?

why does her Music preference say "Dark Eyes by Arthur Akopyan" when the actual page for "Dark Eyes" has no mention of Akopyan? does anyone have a reference on how Akopyan is involved with this, is he a performer? Anatoly.bourov (talk) 15:25, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fractions

I see, In the all-around final she technically accumulated the same total as Chellsie Memmel, but a scoring system that truncated the individual apparatus marks, as opposed to using the full scores or rounding up, artificially lowered Liukin's total score and she placed second. Could someone point us to a source that explains this better than the two provided? It's pretty obscure, I know, but quirky enough to be interesting. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 03:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

a minor change in the Russian spelling of the name

It should be Анастаси́я (На́стя) Вале́рьевна Лю́кина

Dvv (talk) 14:06, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen it both ways in the Russian press, and on the Russian wiki the title is without the accents but the text is with accents. So I'm confused. Any more Russian speakers here who can chime in? What should it be? DanielEng (talk) 16:07, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am not native Russian speaker (just a student of the language) but my impression is that, all Russian words can be written with stress but because you're supposed to know how the word is pronounced if you know the word, stress is never written by people who are writing Russian facilely. Including stress in writing Russian words is basically only for first year students. In other words it seems that is unnecessary to include stress when writing words (or names) that are in Russian, in English text. Inspecting Russian wikipedia, it seems that their policy for writing articles is to put stress in people's names the first time the name is mentioned, in bold, presumably so it is known how the names are pronounced (because the name might be pronounced differently from how it looks or something, like in English names Meaghan and Meghan e.g.). But it does not seem necessary, only stylistic. I haven't inspected convention for Russian names in English wikipedia articles. Phoebeheyman (talk) 20:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for commenting here. It's appreciated! To clarify one more time, then, the current Russian name--without stress--that appears in the article is completely correct, and isn't misspelled, etc.? I've matched it up to the Russian Wiki version, but I'll double check here. DanielEng (talk) 08:36, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

redirects

The russian names should appear as redirects.

70.51.11.210 (talk) 14:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree completely. A user who would be searching for Анастасия Люкина would likely be on the Russian Wikipedia, where she can be found under her Russian name. Also, as a test, if you type Анастасия "Настя" Валерьевна Люкина in the search box, this page is the only result that comes up, so on the off chance that someone would be searching for an English page with her Russian name, they'd still get here. DanielEng (talk) 15:16, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Minor but worthwhile edit: Change "as a young child" to "at the age of two."

I think that it would be better to make the following edit: Nastia Liukin was born in Moscow and moved to the United States "as a young child" to "at the age of two." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wdot (talk • contribs) 08:18, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's already in the body of the article. The lead is about just getting the gist of the article across, so "young child" is appropriate there. DanielEng (talk) 08:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Height

Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa/nastia+liukin/221207) has her height listed as 5'2" (1.60 m), not 5'3". Maybe height should be changed? Hizrael (talk) 12:52, 17, August 2008 (UTC)

  1. ^ Template:Cite article
  2. ^ Normille, Dwight (October June 9, 2008). "10 thoughts on the U.S. Championships". International Gymnast. Retrieved 2008-06-23. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
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