Talk:Nastia Liukin

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 19:19, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Can someone add that because of her Russian good looks and her winning the all-around gold medal, Nastia has the potential for serious endorsement deals and other business deals? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.75.69.114 (talk) 15:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Tied with Shannon Miller?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shannon Miller has a combined total of 16 World and Olympic medals, and I'm pretty sure Nastia Liukin only has 14, but this article says she's tied Miller's record for both Worlds and Olympics. To tie the record, she would have had to have won 7 medals in Beijing. If you know, maybe change it? I'm not completely confident that I'm right so I'm going to leave it.

Nastia has 9 world medals tied with Miller for World medals ONLY. Miller has 7 Olympic medals overall. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.19.130.116 (talk) 05:47, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Non neutral point of view

Under Junior Career, this lines appears: "Nastia Liukin is the best known gymnast in the galaxy. Unfortunately, she takes that for granted." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Euphorya (talk • contribs) 21:53, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pulling that out. It was just a drive-by IP posting, from the look of it--not anything any of the editors here would have taken seriously or allowed to remain. DanielEng 22:48, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

2005 Worlds

The following information has been pulled out of the article as "unsourced POV" twice: technically accumulated the same total as Chellsie Memmel, but a scoring system that truncated the individual apparatus marks, as opposed to using the full scores or rounding up, artificially lowered Liukin's total score and she placed second.

1. Two sources have been given.
2. It is not POV, since it is a factual reporting of the situation with the score.
3. It was (and still is, three years later) one of the controversial moments of the sport, and should be reported.

Please remember that the burden of proof lies with the editor deleting information. Things should not be taken out of an article when they are sourced and factual, even if an editor does not personally agree with them.DanielEng (talk) 21:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Neither of your sources support your proposition. The scores are reported so I don't understand the concern. If it was so widely known, then perhaps you can source something that actually supports what you're saying. If you, or others, feel that scores should be "rounded up" then provide a source for the information. Also, just because someone removes unsourced information (that you don't agree with) doesn't make them a vandal. Agrippina Minor (talk) 22:28, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

You're not even interpreting what is said in the article correctly. It's not "my proposition" as I didn't even add that info to the article originally; I was the editor who checked the links when they were live to ensure it was accurate. No one is saying the scores should have been rounded up; the text was reporting what happened. Given that the scores were close and the situation generated press from IG, it's relevant enough to be reported here.

And one of the sources was a dead link, but that does not mean it was irrelevant or an unreliable source; it means the source went offline. As per WP:SOURCE, a source does not lose its reliability or validity when it goes off the Web. I'm not sure how you claim you could have read it and decided it didn't support the position, considering it was a dead link. It is not policy to take something out of an article or consider it "unsourced" when a citation link is dead. And even in the case of unsourced information, the courteous and accepted policy is to either request a new citation or post a note on the Talk before slicing-and-dicing an article, unless it's obvious libel or was placed by an editor who is obviously trolling and vandalizing.

At any rate, the revised link is here; [1] and the relevant text, which very clearly provides a reliable source, is: At the 2005 Worlds in Melbourne, she technically tied teammate Chellsie Memmel for the all-around title, but was bumped to second because of a truncated scoring system that cut .001 from her total score.

The other link was: [2]; the relevant text was: (And I'm still giving that title to Liukin, who tied Memmel for the 2005 gold in Melbourne, and then was bumped to second when the scores were truncated via a senseless rule.)The second piece is an op-ed, but the statement of the rule, and that Liukin was bumped to second, is fact. It is also by a different writer, ie, the score situation was not a figment of Amanda Turner's imagination.

Removing chunks of text from an article without verifying it with anyone, requesting a source or talking it over is disruptive and isn't even remotely fair or respectful to the other editors who have worked on the page. Not to mention that when you rip a footnote out of the article, you orphan any other citations in the article which use it. DanielEng (talk) 01:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Nastia Liukin/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Lead

• I would be tempted to move the second and third par round.
• wl 2008 Beijing Olympics to the most appropriate link.

Early life

• Do you have any references for the first par?

Junior career

• Is there a wikilink for all-around?
• Reference 12 isn't formatted correctly.

2005-2006

• "Liukin tied with teammate and frequent competitive rival Chellsie Memmel" Not sure you need the full description of Memmel again, perhaps teammate will do. Also you don't need to repeat her first name so soon after her last mention.
• "However, due to an ankle injury sustained in training before the competition began, she was only able to compete on one event, the uneven bars, at Worlds." Do you need to say "at Worlds" since you've just mentioned them the previous sentence.

2008

• "16.6 on the uneven bars" and "16.65 on the uneven bars". How come this doesn't follow the normal policy of "16.600 on the uneven bars" and "16.650 on the uneven bars"?

Competitive history

• This should start with her oldest competitions. I.e Junior at the top right, with that section arranged from 2002 to 2004, down to 2008 at the end.

A few things to do, but nothing substantial, so I'll put it on hold. Peanut4 (talk) 12:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for all your help and for reviewing the article! :) I've made all of the changes indicated here--for the competitive history, I couldn't figure out how to work with the table to move years, so I replaced it with another, easier-to-read table. DanielEng (talk) 15:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

If you want, I'll restore the old one and correct it to the right order? Or do you want to keep the new one? Peanut4 (talk) 17:58, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

On reflection, the new one looks better and takes up less space, so I think it'd be best to stay with it. Thank you for offering though! :) DanielEng (talk) 16:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Everything looks fine. But as with Alicia Sacramone, I'll keep it on hold until after she has competed at the Olympics, partly to meet the stability criteria. I'll keep both GAs and the pages on my watchlist, but just drop me a note when you're ready to complete the review. Peanut4 (talk) 00:30, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Everyhting looks pretty good, however the combination of the Olympics and the page being protected means at the moment it will fail stability. Secondly a good article shouldn't really be protected, particularly not while being under review. So unfortunately I'm going to fail it. Pre-Olympics everything was in place, so there is little more (if anything) that is needed to bring it up to GAN standard in my opinion. My suggestion would be to wait say two weeks and then re-nominate the article once it has been unprotected and it becomes stable again. Peanut4 (talk) 21:38, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. I thank you for your help here, but I disagree with this. I thought the original agreement mentioned above was to wait until the end of the Olympics to pass/fail this, on the understanding that the article was going to be going through some changes. Also, I don't think protection should come into play here--there are plenty of FA and GAs that do need to be protected from IP vandals, simply because they are about public figures and receive a lot of traffic. Also, in rechecking the GA criteria, I don't see protection being listed as a reason to fail. Is there any way to request a second opinion on this? DanielEng (talk) 21:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

ETA: I've put in for a reassessment. DanielEng (talk) 21:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

While it might technically be true it implies Nastia was cheated out of a medal she was NOT cheated out of. The rules are the rules and Nastia was not the rightful winner. This even being here is a mis-justice and knock on Chellsie Memmel. The rules don't need to be proven because Chellsie has the medal and has her name written in every record book about the subject.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.19.130.116 (talk) 05:49, 16 July 2009 (UTC) 

References

Her routine song

I would like to know what song (the one she uses on the floor and the one she just won the gold medal all-around with) is. Thanks. Smuckers ^{It has to be good} 05:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I have heard it was a remix of "Dark Eyes" by Devotchka. Supposedly she used it after hearing it from one of Sasha Cohen's (figure skater) routines. I just checked and it seems it has its own wikipedia page as well.

About her surname

Hi, I'm a little confused: is it standard English to drop the -a from a Russian-born woman's last name? As you probably know "Liukin" is masculine and "Liukina" is feminine. --71.112.145.102 (talk) 08:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

There's an article somewhere (it might be in the references) that states that when the family came to the USA, they all took the form 'Liukin' for their English-language names to avoid confusion. She's still 'Liukina' in Russian. DanielEng (talk) 13:30, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

There's no redirect at Nastia Liukina or variations thereof. 70.51.11.210 (talk) 04:03, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

There wouldn't need to be. It's not a name she has ever used in English and it's not a name anglophone readers would normally think to search for. The Russian version of the page, which is linked on the left, has her Russian name. DanielEng (talk) 04:07, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

reference for music authorship?

why does her Music preference say "Dark Eyes by Arthur Akopyan" when the actual page for "Dark Eyes" has no mention of Akopyan? does anyone have a reference on how Akopyan is involved with this, is he a performer? Anatoly.bourov (talk) 15:25, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Fractions

I see, In the all-around final she technically accumulated the same total as Chellsie Memmel, but a scoring system that truncated the individual apparatus marks, as opposed to using the full scores or rounding up, artificially lowered Liukin's total score and she placed second. Could someone point us to a source that explains this better than the two provided? It's pretty obscure, I know, but quirky enough to be interesting. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 03:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

a minor change in the Russian spelling of the name

{{editsemiprotected}} It should be Анастаси́я (На́стя) Вале́рьевна Лю́кина

Dvv (talk) 14:06, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I've seen it both ways in the Russian press, and on the Russian wiki the title is without the accents but the text is with accents. So I'm confused. Any more Russian speakers here who can chime in? What should it be? DanielEng (talk) 16:07, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I am not native Russian speaker (just a student of the language) but my impression is that, all Russian words can be written with stress but because you're supposed to know how the word is pronounced if you know the word, stress is never written by people who are writing Russian facilely. Including stress in writing Russian words is basically only for first year students. In other words it seems that is unnecessary to include stress when writing words (or names) that are in Russian, in English text. Inspecting Russian wikipedia, it seems that their policy for writing articles is to put stress in people's names the first time the name is mentioned, in bold, presumably so it is known how the names are pronounced (because the name might be pronounced differently from how it looks or something, like in English names Meaghan and Meghan e.g.). But it does not seem necessary, only stylistic. I haven't inspected convention for Russian names in English wikipedia articles. Phoebeheyman (talk) 20:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for commenting here. It's appreciated! To clarify one more time, then, the current Russian name--without stress--that appears in the article is completely correct, and isn't misspelled, etc.? I've matched it up to the Russian Wiki version, but I'll double check here. DanielEng (talk) 08:36, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the way the name spelled now is correct. The accents can be used, but are not required. In fact, their use is usually restricted to helping little kids learn to read, in books aimed at teaching Russian for non-native speakers, or sometimes in a dictionary to help pronunciation of rare or complicated words. If I wanted to teach someone how to pronounce the Russian name Maxim (mahk-SEEM), I'd spell it in Cyrillic with an accent in the appropriate place: Макси́м. In English I might underline the appropriate letter: Maxim. Now, Russians obviously don't need the accents because they know how to pronounce names and words, so it would be completely redundant. The accent marks merely indicate stress, they have no phonetic value of their own. Which brings up an issue: why would anyone on English Wikipedia need to know her name in Russian? If they have never taken a Russian language class then the accent marks' purpose will be lost to them, and those who have might need them to learn how to say her name in Russian correctly. What I have seen in a few articles, such as Anna Kournikova is that the accent mark is left out of common names and patronymics, and left only for the surname.--71.112.145.102 (talk) 19:57, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Accents are not only used for teaching the language there are also standard in dictionary articles (in Russian). BTW, Maria Sharapova's name in Russian in her Wiki entry is spelled with accents...Papushin (talk) 19:20, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

redirects

The russian names should appear as redirects.

• Анастасия "Настя" Валерьевна Люкина
  • Анастасия Валерьевна Люкина
  • Анастасия Люкина
• Анастаси́я (На́стя) Вале́рьевна Лю́кина
  • Анастаси́я Вале́рьевна Лю́кина
  • Анастаси́я Лю́кина
  • На́стя Лю́кина

70.51.11.210 (talk) 14:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

• Why? This is the English Wikipedia; English-language users are quite unlikely to be entering names in Cyrillic. We don't have, for example, links to Александр Солженицын. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree completely. A user who would be searching for Анастасия Люкина would likely be on the Russian Wikipedia, where she can be found under her Russian name. Also, as a test, if you type Анастасия "Настя" Валерьевна Люкина in the search box, this page is the only result that comes up, so on the off chance that someone would be searching for an English page with her Russian name, they'd still get here. DanielEng (talk) 15:16, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Minor but worthwhile edit: Change "as a young child" to "at the age of two."

I think that it would be better to make the following edit: Nastia Liukin was born in Moscow and moved to the United States "as a young child" to "at the age of two." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wdot (talk • contribs) 08:18, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

That's already in the body of the article. The lead is about just getting the gist of the article across, so "young child" is appropriate there. DanielEng (talk) 08:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Height

Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa/nastia+liukin/221207) has her height listed as 5'2" (1.60 m), not 5'3". Maybe height should be changed? Hizrael (talk) 12:52, 17, August 2008 (UTC)

Liukin's most current official recorded height and weight from the Beijing Olympic Organizing Committee indicate that she is now 5'3". [3], as do current news reports where Valeri directly comments on her height. [4]. DanielEng (talk) 17:08, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Appearance on Oprah

When she was talking to Oprah she mentioned something about some sort of inspiration board. What exactly did she call it? Bettyfizzw1 (talk) 01:46, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• Never mind, I got it. Bettyfizzw1 (talk) 21:55, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Religion

I think we should include Nastia's religion in the "Early Life and Family" section. I know she is some form of Catholic, but I cannot verify it. Can anyone find something that will verify this? 69.117.27.32 (talk) 01:57, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

She's mentioned celebrating Christmas in January, so my guess would be that she is probably Russian Orthodox, like many Russians. Which isn't quite the same as Roman Catholicism. She's never come out and professed an association with any church. I agree that it would be a valuable addition to the article to have her religious background, but we need a reliable source before we can add it. Found it: Russian Orthodox; not Catholic.DanielEng (talk) 03:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I've added the fact to the article, but I'm not sure how to reference it. I found the information on http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5933516.html, although I am sure it may be found elsewhere.

Ken Kenneth971 (talk) 21:20, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Originator of element in artistic gymnastics

Liukin was included in the category of originators of elements in artistic gymnastics but, there is no mention in the article of the fact that Liukin has performed a novel element or of the element that would have been named after Liukin (description or at least the event that the element is performed such as e.g. floor, beam, uneven bars, vault) . To my knowledge there is no element in the FIG CODE of Points 2009-2012 named after Anastasia Liukin. If such element exists it should be filled in the table under Eponymous skills. Moreover a reference to the page on the FIG Code of Points that lists the skils should be given. Until valid or any references are given to prove this fact I consider that Liukin should be removed from the category of Originators of elements. Lulubon (talk) 08:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC) 156.83.1.251 (talk) 09:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC) Lulubon (talk) 23:43, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

how about a criticism section

on her giving birth cowboys, lack of double back, froggy leg giants, UBmiserable dismount, piro code whoring, floor leg twisting. I could dig up some Chinese criticisms so it looks all refernced and wiki compliant? 72.82.57.163 (talk) 14:54, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I was lying. This was a form comment. Boo N, go S. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.82.57.163 (talk) 19:51, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

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Fan POV tag

Hi Folks, I have placed a fan POV tag on the article. Its a good article but it needs some deep, neutral editing to summarize her life and career and give it a more encyclopedic tone. Here are some examples of the kind of language and superficial detail that needs to be removed from the article:

• Liukin currently updates a blog on her official website and regularly posts on Twitter as @NastiaLiukin. She has a line of GK Gymnastics Leotards and grips and a line of pink gymnastics equipment from AAI
• It is rumored that Nastia Liukin is in a relationship
• Nastia's signature color is pink, hence her pink leotard worn during the 2008 Beijing Olympics All-Around competition.
• Liukin began gymnastics at the age of three because she was "always hanging around in the gym"
• scored extremely well
• Liukin displayed a beautiful routine
• Liukin thought about competing uneven bars and beam at the U.S. Championships, but decided to once again just perform on beam.

I could list at least 20 examples but I will stop here.

Nice TV ad for Subway

Came to this WP page because she appears most prominently in the national football playoffs ad for Subway. Going to the Superbowl: the Denver Broncos beating the New England Patriots. I don't mind being a fan, and readers of Wikipedia expect more 'human interest' than a dry encyclopedia. We are 'online'. Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 23:48, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Nastia Liukin and her million-dollar smile have more 'face time' in this very expensive NFL TV ad than Michael Phelps and Apolo Ohno, the other two retired Olympic athletes. She will rise in pop culture in America and the world. This is important in editing her article in Wikipedia. Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 00:03, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

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Choreographer

Infobox says "Choreographer Natalya Marakova". I wondered if this might be a misspelling of the famous ballerina and choreographer Natalia Makarova. Can anyone clarify? Most web hits for Natalia Marakova are in fact typos of that sort. Thanks. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:2B99 (talk) 23:56, 22 July 2021 (UTC)