Talk:Hermann Göring

Munich Conference

The entry for the Sudetenland asserts that Goering prepared Mussolini's speech but I can't find a mention here, just thought i'd inform those with the knowledge/will to do anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.6.238 (talk) 01:20, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Goring the Romantic

What's up with the "Post World War I" section? It reads like a Harlequin romance novel. Needs a rewrite. Stat.

Why is there a photo of Geert Wilders? I imagine it's some kind of joke, but can we please put back the photo of Goering. I'd do it if I knew how. Rachey (talk) 00:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC) ____

misc

An event mentioned in this article is a May 9 selected anniversary (may be in HTML comment)

in the begining of the statement it said that goring was a fighter pilot starting in october 1916 when it was actually october 1915 (martin gilbert first world war), i altered accordingly.

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Removal of doubts on Albert Speer statement - Some time ago someone added a nice rebuttal to the Spear claim of Goering's statement about Jews in the prison yard. Little of what Speer said should be trusted, toward the end of his life he was more concerned with his own legacy than the truth. I protest the removal of the rebuttal, which was removed with no word of such on the history page. In fact, is this needed at all: "Despite claims that he was not anti-semitic, while in the prison yard at Nuremberg, after hearing a remark about Jewish survivors in Hungary, Albert Speer reported overhearing Göring say, "So, there are still some there? I thought we had knocked off all of them. Somebody slipped up again."" Seems highly POV and there is some evidence that Goering was not anti-semitic, a claim from Speer would not be enough to convince me. [1] - user:Ratzinger81

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So, was he obese or not? He doesn't look to chubby in the photo, and yet the article mentions that his narcotic dependency contributed to his obesity.

The photo dates from 1946, at which point Göring had been weaned from his painkillers and had lost weight. Pictures from the mid-thirties and the war years testify to his girth (he was invariably described as a voluptuary). Mackensen 18:16, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

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When exactly and in what circumstances did he serve as Prime Minister of Prussia? I had never heard of this. Someone include more about it. user:J.J.

By the time he became Minister-President of Prussia, the title was essentially meaningless, I think. The Reichstatthaltern were really running things. john k 23:13, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

There are 299 hits on "Goring" "Prime Minister of PRussia" here. RickK 23:16, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

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Does anybody know where he got the cyanide capsule from? --FermatSim 20:55, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes, from an American officer who was guarding him.

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http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-goering7feb07,0,7916046.story?coll=la-home-headlines

commander of the Luftwaffe and had two very small balls.

A few sentences in. I'm assuming this is vandalism, no?

-G

Goering and the Holocaust

I read the book of the mainstream historian Werner Maser (see article) and in that book, it seems that Goering had very little to do with the Holocaust. He never openly opposed (or in private to Hitler, as far is known) to the Holocaust because that would endanger his position. He even occasionally helped Jews if it did not endanger his position. Andries 13:41, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sounds deeply suspicious.

Following the Crystal Night [Kristallnacht] pogrom of 9 November 1938, it was Goering who fined the German Jewish community a billion marks and ordered the elimination of Jews from the German economy, the "Aryanization" of their property and businesses, and their exclusion from schools, resorts, parks, forests, etc. On 12 November 1938 he warned of a "final reckoning with the Jews" should Germany come into conflict with a foreign power. It was also Goering who instructed Heydrich on 31 July 1941 to "carry out all preparations with regard to . . . a general solution [Gesamtlosung] of the Jewish question in those territories of Europe which are under German influence.. . ." [1]

Mozzerati 21:22, 2005 Jan 22 (UTC)

Deleted irving

When he sued another historian in an attempt to surpress freedom of speech, David Irving was found, by a UK court, to be an incompetent and misleading historian who deliberately distorts facts. We can't use him as a useful reference. Mozzerati 21:22, 2005 Jan 22 (UTC)

• I disagree and am glad to see Irving's reference restored. Tendentious misguided arrogant part-time holocaust denier that he is, some of his research was excellent.

Guinnog 20:08, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Irving is holocaust denier and his works should all be read with a discerning eye. His biography of Göring is generally good although you can tell he goes out of his way to absolve him of guilt. For instance, Irving translates "final solution to the Jewish question" to "final unravelling of the Jewish question." But it is informative. TuckerResearch 00:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Hermann Göring → Hermann Goering

The latter is clearly more common in English. (And ö-oe is an unambiguous transliteration; š-s (see Tomáš Masaryk below) is not.) Rd232 09:38, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Actually, it isn't unambiguous. For example, Vladimir Voevodsky is not Vladimir Vövodsky. dbenbenn | talk 21:20, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• süpport - UtherSRG 13:13, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)
  • I've been convinced by the dialogue. Oppöse - UtherSRG 01:41, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. How would English-speakers know whether to search for Hermann Goring or Hermann Goering? Many would probably look for Herman Goring. We have redirects to deal with this (well, not the last one, but we should), and there is no reason to place the article under the wrong title. / u◦p◦p◦l◦a◦n◦d 15:49, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Google sayeth: 15,900 English pages for "Hermann Göring", 6,170 English pages for "Hermann Goring", 97,900 English pages for "Hermann Goering". Proteus (Talk) 16:05, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Oppöse for the reasons put forward by u◦p◦p◦l◦a◦n◦d. -- Arwel 16:43, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Strongly Oppose - why not just change it to "Herman" if you want to be more English? "Herman Goering" has 15,400 hits in English - does that mean that it is almost as valid a usage as "Hermann Göring" Since these characters don't appear on English keyboards, web pages are unlikely to have them (e.g., Curacao (1,190,000 hits) beats Curaçao (236,000 hits) - should we also adopt incorrect spellings based on majority rule on Google? Guettarda 16:54, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Support At the Trial of German Major War Criminals Nuremberg the names used are: HERMANN WILHELM GOERING, RUDOLF HESS, JOACHIM VON RIBBENTROP, ROBERT LEY, WILHELM KEITEL, ERNST KALTENBRUNNER, ALFRED ROSENBERG, HANS FRANK, WILHELM FRICK, JULIUS STREICHER, WALTER FUNK, HJALMAR SCHACHT, GUSTAV KRUPP VON BOHLEN UND HALBACH, KARL DOENITZ, ERICH RAEDER, BALDUR VON SCHIRACH, FRITZ SAUCKEL, ALFRED JODL, MARTIN BORMANN, FRANZ VON PAPEN, ARTUR SEYSS-INQUART, ALBERT SPEER, CONSTANTIN VON NEURATH and HANS FRITZSCHE. As a lot of the written work in English is derived from these trials, it seem sensible to go with those spellings. Philip Baird Shearer 17:07, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • If you're using that as a guide his name should be in caps. Jooler 20:35, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

IMHO you are being silly spelling and upper case are not one and the same thing (They are in upper case because they are a legal definition). I bet that most of the people who oppose this change do not have English their mother tongue and do not realise that most native speakers are not taught to use funny foreign squiggles above words, do not use them, do not understand them and always ignore them. That would imply that normally the word would be "Goring" but common usage and definitive source says "Goering" so that is what it should be.

1. The Nuremberg trials are a definitive English source for the man's name
2. Google usage runs at 5 to 1 in favour
3. Wikipedia:Naming_conventions (use_English) says use it. --Philip Baird Shearer

I disagree with the assertion that most opponents don't have English as their first language. "Göring" is very commonly used nowadays, particularly in modern English language books on the era.

Incidentally why has no-one who proposed or supports the move posted anything about the proposed change on the actual page on Göring? Timrollpickering 15:22, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Funny, Jooler.

PBS, you should avoid telling people who they are, and that that's the reason they should listen to you. And don't make assertions about how ignorant native speakers are. You're not just wrong on all counts, you run the risk that someone will take you seriously and be insulted..

1. Based on what? You say yourself that their spelling was limited by typewriters. 2. My Google search gives almost exactly 1:1. 3. You're misinterpreting the convention. —Michael Z. 16:46, 2005 Jan 20 (UTC)

Sigh!. From this page earlier this month:

That doesn't sound right. I'm in Canada, and get the same results whether searching with Google.com or Google.ca (English version). —Michael Z. 22:31, 2005 Jan 4 (UTC)

http://www.google.com.au http://www.google.co.nz http://www.google.co.uk http://www.google.co.za all work the same way. http://www.google.ie http://www.google.ca seem to be set up as bylingual (one of which uses diacritics) Germany http://www.google.de returns similar results to ca and ie. Philip Baird Shearer 23:14, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)'

Did you not read it or have you forgotten it? Anyone using Google in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, or the UK get diffrent pages returned for Goring, Göring and Georing. Philip Baird Shearer 12:20, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

So your Google is definitive, but in 160 other countries it doesn't count? This is just another example that counting Google results is mostly meaningless, and they can be "interpreted" to prove anything. —Michael Z. 2005-01-21 18:25Z

PBS, I think you may need to re-read Wikipedia:Naming_conventions (use_English) - it talks about anglicisation and transliteration. Neither of these apply to this example "ö" vs. "oe" is neither of these things. What part of the convention applies here?

• Oppose - If Göring was his name, so it should appear on the 'pedia. User:NeilTarrant (who forgot to sign).
• Oppose - pointless move. Jooler 20:31, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose - Göring was his name. Google is not a good guide on matters such as this and should not be used as a determinant. Timrollpickering 20:44, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Have you read Wikipedia:Naming_conventions (use_English) lately?
  • I quote: Convention: Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly used in English than the anglicized form.
  • It's only a convention, of course, but it's a pretty clear one. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 21:47, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

  Göring and Goering are both German, but the first is the preferred spelling. Since it's in the Latin alphabet, transliteration is irrelevant. Consequently, they're both English too (or neither, if you prefer), but the second is more common due to technical and knowledge limitations. I guess the convention's still not clear enough. —Michael Z. 22:48, 2005 Jan 19 (UTC)

  • • "oe" is the English transliteration of "ö", since English does not use "ö". Whether it's in the Latin alphabet or not is irrelevant. And the convention is clear enough - you're just deliberately misinterpreting it. Proteus (Talk) 23:04, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • The convention speaks of "anglicizations" of foreign words. So unless you want to use "Herman" (+ whatever "Göring" would translate into), that point is irrelevant. And doesn't "transliteration" refer to converting non-Roman into Roman? So that, too, doesn't apply. You have two variants of a foreign name. If you want to apply the convention, then you ANGLICISE - like converting "Charlemagne" to "Charles the Great" or "Jeanne d'Arc" into "Joan of Arc". "Oe" is not an "English transliteration" of "ö" - it's a simplified Roman 'variant' (which is valid in German, 'but not the man's name'). If the logic of this argument is used, then Adolf Hitler should be moved to the anglicised "Adolph Hitler". If the convention applies here, then maybe the convention needs changing, since literally applied it would require that we mis-spell an awful lot of "foreign" names. Are we going to move "Jacques Chirac" to "John Chirac"? Guettarda 23:23, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
        • Did you actually read the convention quoted above? I'll quote it again, just to make it quite clear for you: "Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly used in English than the anglicized form" (emphasis mine, of course). Proteus (Talk) 23:51, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose German ö degrades to oe when limited by typewriters, ASCII, or other outdated technology (yes, o/ö/ó/ô is one letter of the English/Latin alphabet, even with a diacritic applied). Since Wikipedia is almost out of the typewriter category, we should stick to the correct name. Google results simply reflect the fact that most of the historic web was typed on keyboards boldly showing their Remington, Underwood, and IBM Selectric roots. —Michael Z. 21:44, 2005 Jan 19 (UTC)

What you say is true because the name was introduced into English through the use of typewriter during the Nuremberg trials. BUT as hardly any native English speaker knows the German rule of changing an "ö" to "oe" if the "ö" is not available, if Göring was introduced today then most English speaking people would just strip the "ö" to "o" because they do not use funny foreign squiggles (diacritic). This is only partly to do with the technology (my keyboards do not have any funny foreign squiggles and yes I have programmed C++ on a German keyboard and it is not easy because lots of the standard keys which appear on an English keyboard are taken up with letters with dots on them and the (z and the y are in the wrong places)); it is much more to do with education and culture (or some would argue lack of culture) in the English speaking world. You summed it up earlier in your comment "Göring and Goering are both German, but the first is the preferred spelling. [in German]", in English the prefered spelling is Goering (by 5 to 1 with Google) and also in a definitive source the war crimes trials. Why are you voting in preference of German spellings in en.wikipedia? Philip Baird Shearer

You need to separate "preferred spelling" from "technical limitations"...

from Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) -

If you are talking about a person, country, town, movie or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article...Sverige could be a redirect to Sweden. "Goering" and "Göring" are not English vs. non-English - read the convention carefully, it doesn't apply to this. What you have is the way the individual spelled his name, and the way that you 'can' expand it if you don't have the technology. Should we replace italics with underlining for Genus and species names simply because that's what you'd do on an old-fashioned type-writer? Guettarda

I disagree Germans can expand ö to oe if they wish that is not an English grammar rule. The most common spelling of the man's name in Engish is Goering and as I said before "and also in a definitive source the war crimes trials". Philip Baird Shearer

PBS, if you think that everyone will ignore the umlaut, then why are you opposed to using it?

The failings of some people's technology is still irrelevant (incidentally, this member of "the English speaking world" has been typing accents and diaereses over Latin letters on an English-language Mac keyboard layout since the mid '80s; option-u, o to make ö). We're not advocating that everyone write out the name 50 times, we're just presenting the actual name as the title of the article.

Are you saying that we shouldn't spell it that way because it's difficult to spell or to type? Should book publishers reduce all quotation marks and dashes to ASCII tick marks and double hyphens, because the average American Joe won't acknowledge them? I don't agree with your implication about the level of literacy, and if it were true I wouldn't agree with dumbing down those 'effete foreign affectations' in response. And perhaps, as you say, those that don't care about squiggles will just ignore them, or choose to retreat someplace safe and reassuring. —Michael Z. 16:32, 2005 Jan 20 (UTC)

It is not a matter of technology it is a matter of culture awarness. As I have said many time before, Keep it (the rule) simple. I am in favour of the names appearing on the first line of an article as they appear in a native language. But the name should first appear in the 26 letters as commonly used when writing English (ie without diacritics) unless the preponderance of usage in English is with diacritics. In this case for historical reasons Goering is the most common usage in English, probably based on the spelling used at the War Crime trials, so that is what should be used. If this were not the case then I would support the name as would "Goring". Philip Baird Shearer

Oppose The link from Goering to Göring is already in place anyway.

Urhixidur 03:45, 2005 Jan 20 (UTC)

Oppose. Pretty much any word with an umlaut or any other diacritic will be more common without that diacritic on English-language Google pages. But that's not because anyone thinks it's more correct. It's because people with English keyboards don't know or don't care about how to display the special character. Why would we follow such incompetence? We are using diacritics, and the correct name here is without doubt Göring. (Nor would "Goering" be unambiguous. You can not change any German "oe" to "ö". Goebbels' name is Goebbels, not Göbbels, but Göring's is Göring, not Goering.) Gzornenplatz 17:53, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)

Good point. / u◦p◦p◦l◦a◦n◦d 18:34, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Oppose for the reasons above. StanZegel 22:27, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I floated this partly because I think "Goering" is the most common English spelling, and so Wikipedia convention would suggest placing it there; and partly to provoke policy discussion. Well, the latter was certainly successful; but perhaps this should be moved to Naming conventions somewhere, and a more serious debate had; maybe specific proposals to clarify and/or specify the conventions. (For the Goering article itself, I echo Urhixidur.) Rd232 17:34, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

There has been a Loooooonnnnnnng debate about this subject on the Talk:Zürich page which continued on Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English) Philip Baird Shearer 12:20, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose. Tell you what, let's use Wikipedia to educate people on the correct name for people, places and things, not force anglicisation on the world. Noisy | Talk 18:44, Jan 21, 2005 (UTC)
• Oppöse for all the reasons given above. dbenbenn | talk 21:20, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. Correctness is the most important thing. As long as there are redirects from Goering and Goring, the article will be found. --Auximines 21:27, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Oppöse Accuracy should be one of the primary considerations for any encyclopedia, including the English-language Wikipedia. BlankVerse 10:43, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose.
  1. Comfort with umlauts by English-speakers is high.
  2. Conversion of umlauts to vowel-E digraphs is misleading, since some German-language names are properly spelled in German only with the digraph, and use of the digraphs in other situations encourages misspelling and missearching of the real vowel-E names
  3. 'Most importantly: This cannot be decided on a name-by-name vote. This change would only be reasonable if treated as part of a global policy on all German-language names that Germans spell with umlaut.

--Jerzy(t) 01:26, 2005 Jan 23 (UTC)

Oppose My interpretation of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) Is that we should use the prevailing English version in the cases were not doing so would confuse readers. In the case of Göring vs. Goering I doubt we'll have any more people confused one way or the other. -- ckape (talk) 22:59, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Oppose With or without the umlaut, both are correct. Using "oe" as opposed to the "ö" is basically the same thing. In the German language "oe" is merely the old phoenetic way of making the sound that the "ö" represents. To a German they are pronounced the same way. When it comes to typing it on the internet, however, Goering would be more common because of a lack of easy access to umlauts. They're both correct though... and it has nothing to do with an english influence on history or anything like that. -- User:Parker 9 February 2005

Oppose have researched the subject for 38 years and found 'Goring' most common in English, irrespective of the the quality of the source, and contining after 1945. -- nobs (talk) 9 March 2005

Oppose - Göring is proper and Wiki already transfers Goering to Göring

Strongly Oppose Göring was his name FFS!

Irrelevant comment?

I removed the following irrelevant comment in the introductory paragraph:

His Machiavellian leadership style is summed up in one of his most famous quotes: "Vote or no vote, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders."

Seems more of an opinion rather than a fact. Of course, I am not an authority on such matters, so if anybody knows better free free to add this back.

--Bigbossman 09:47, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

The structure of the Nazi political structure, with frequently overlapping authority and redundant structures is well documented. A Machiavellian leadership style would be almost a necessity.

Wulfe 02:09, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

President of the Reichstag

Who was his successer in that position, and what was the precise month(in 1933) in which he resigned? he held position after 1933, through the war. The reichstag rarley met, the position was basically honorary. Because the country had not president, it arguablly made him head of State.

Err, no. The Reichsprasident was head of state under Weimar, and after Hindenburg died, that position devolved upon Hitler as Fuhrer. Göring's position as President of the Reichstag was somewhat similar to the Speaker of the US House of Representatives or the British House of Commons in terms of it's constitutional position - I.E, of the second rank. It was, in any case, a totally meaningless position because the Nazi Reichstag was not only powerless, but it practically never met. AFAIK, Göring never resigned the position, or if he did, it was only temporary.

Franziska

Franziska who? Had his mother no maiden name, or is there a bit of sexism or laziness here?

I wouldn't so easily make the jump to saying this is sexism. It is likely only a lack of information. FranksValli 04:11, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

King of Hungary

Ok, this is actually very interesting. According to Nicolas M. Nagy-Talavera, in The Greenshirts and the others, Goering was offered the Crown of Hungary by Ferenc Szálasi in late 1944. Talavera does not indicate more than two precise references: Der Spiegel of March 18 1968 and an unnamed Hungarian genealogical almanach published around the same year. Now, this looks grotesque enough to be dismissed, but Talavera is all matter-of-course about it. He gives details that Goering's ancestry was contrived so that he appeared to be related to the Árpáds. Of course, this is in tune with a lot of peculiar reasonings of the Fascist leadership of Hungary - skipping the inhumane ones, let me mention the fact that Szálasi wrote his seven volumes of memoirs while the Soviets were closing in, and that he was determined to present each and every pair of newlyweds with a copy of all books. However, I could not verify this particular information with other sources. Does anyone have knowledge of this? The Talavera edition I have is in Romanian and, as far as I can tell, the chapter (Chapter VIII) were this subject is dealt with should be named something like "Hungarist National Empire" (for those who do not know it,I assure you the book is very serious, and never parodic; still, it might be mistaken).Dahn 06:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Too little about his early life

Does anyone else think that there is too little information about Goering's early life, where he was born, who is parents were, and the revelation of some small Jewish blood on his grandfather's side?

Seems just to immediately jump into the First World War. --Jason Hughes 22:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Namibian sources give his father's name as Heinrich Ernst Göring, for whom I have created a biographical stub. Information about Hermann's early life might also be relevant there. SteveH 09:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Too little on Nuremburg

Doesn't really detail the nature of the charges against Goring nor his defense.

His major crime appears to have been plannig war. O fcourse all Europe had been preparing for war for generations. Here was a chance to hang all the leaders but they only got the Germans.159.105.80.141 17:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Any evidence that he was a transvestite?

I've seen rumors, mostly on very dubious websites, that Goring was a transvestite. Is there any evidence at all the support this, other than a passing reference on Red Dwarf? Most recently, I read that a history teacher named James Berger in California used this rumor as an argument against a bill that would mandate that gays' contributions thoughout history be taught in public schools. If a history teacher is bringing it up, it's probably worth mentioning, even if it's completely false. Maybe especially so in that case. --Mattymatt 19:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I remember reading somewhere that he asked Coco Chanel to design clothes for him. I don't know if it was dresses or fantasy military uniforms. If I can find that reference I will put it up in this section. On the other hand, just because a history teacher comes up with it doesn't necessarely say it is so. Me thinks that teacher had a not so hidden agenda for using the rumour. Keep in mind that some people use Hitler's vegetarianism for all sorts of argumenting.

P.S. : If I don't make sense, it is because English is not my first language.--Efrasnel 21:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Göring was most certainly not a transvestite. This, like the morphine addiction business, is an urban/historical myth which almost certainly grew out of the fact that Göring most certainly did have a love for exuberant clothes and uniforms of almost all descriptions, an inclination for which he was constantly the butt of jokes during the Third Reich period. If it's mentioned in the article then it needs to be framed in that fashion and not suggested as being a possible historical fact. 213.106.232.34 13:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I've just re-watched 'Nuremberg: Goerings Last Stand'[2], which mentions the claim that he did indulge in some transvestism, but this is not backed up with concrete evidence. However there is evidence to suggest that he was depicted in this way in Allied propeganda so prehaps this is worth mentioning? Rachey 23:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

The cross dressing is also mentioned inthe television movie THE MAN WHO LIVD AT THE RITZ which starred Joss Ackland. In the film Goering does ask Coco Chanel to make him some dresses though hints he feels more practical wearing them rather than a fetish. I have tried to add this into the main page but some wikiwonker keeps removing this fact. They have been reported for continual vandalisim (212.22.3.8 (talk) 15:54, 19 February 2008 (UTC))

So you've added personal attacks to your lack of good faith edits. Trivia should be brought to the talk page for discussion and consensus. Do not accuse other editors of vandalism for legitimate edits. Thank you. freshacconcispeaktome 16:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. And I see no indication that I've been reported for "vandalism". I will be posting a warning on your talk page for not assuming good faith. Not sure where false threats of reporting other editors fit in. Must be some rule against that. freshacconcispeaktome 16:09, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I am with the other user here - the film portrays Goering as a cross-dresser which is what the other user is highlighting - no other film portrays this. I think its unfair to accuse someone of vandalising the page when you keep removing a film fact. As this is FACT (see internet film database for conformation) I don't see why you keep removing this. There must be some rule to stop people removing factual film information which is correct (213.205.200.11 (talk) 19:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC))

ALSO TO ADD I have now received a final warning for inputting this back into article - my first edit and I'm ACCUSSED of vandalisim when I see user FRESHACCONI has been reverting all day - can someone please advise me of how to complain about this user THIS IS NOT FAIR nor is it good practise without addressing points here on this talk page?? (213.205.200.11 (talk) 19:14, 19 February 2008 (UTC))

That's pretty funny, you wanting to address this issue on the talk page. Please see WP:SOCK. freshacconcispeaktome 19:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok... I'm not sure exactly what's going on here but to return to my original point, a documentary called 'Nuremberg: Goerings Last Stand' states that he was a transvestite, or at the very least wore nail polish and a kimono. Is this ok to include in the article? The documentary seems reliable to me, it contains interviews with Goerings interpreter at Nuremberg, several guards who worked there and the son of the guard who allegedly provided him with the means to commit suicide. 89.100.234.46 (talk) 00:06, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I remember that. They even had photographic evidience of it. There has to me some way to get one of those photos in this article. --24.74.41.41 (talk) 05:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Revisions

I did some revising of this article as it it a bit sloppy. I added a bit to the Early life section. TuckerResearch 00:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The documentary/film 'Nuermberg: Goerings Last Stand' seems to assert this statment, claiming he wore a kimono, nail-polish, makeup and used extensive facial creams. Is this a reliable source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.234.46 (talk) 18:42, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Anti-semitisim evidence

Despite claims that he was not anti-Semitic, while in the prison yard at Nuremberg, after hearing a remark about Jewish survivors in Hungary, Albert Speer reported overhearing Göring say, "So, there are still some there? I thought we had knocked off all of them. Somebody slipped up again." [3]

Obviously this quote doesn't give any anti-semitism away. I'm considering removing it, but perhaps somebody can add some more context from the book in the citation. And if it's not obvious, then I'm sorry to say I don't have the vocabulary to describe it properly--but he's just reflecting on the quality of an ugly job. 70.66.9.162 06:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems an obvious example of 'black humour' rather than evidence of deeply rooted anti-semitism, of which there is very little. White Guard 01:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Some - one - qoute he is well known for has not been included, it may be true or not. When asked at Nuremberg, by a fellow defendant, if there was any truth to the holocaust - he replied no, or certainly he had never heard of it. It appears in talking between themselves the death camps were news to them.159.105.80.141 17:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how the wording of this quote is NPOV. He may well have been an anti-Semite (I believe he was), but this quote doesn't give evidence to that effect and the way the sentence is worded it's clearly implied that he was one. I think it should be removed. Blankfrackis (talk) 03:44, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Political Career

Promotion to rank of Reichsmarschall

Two dates are given for when Goering was promoted to the rank of Reichsmarschall. The first date given is 29 June 1941. The second date given (in the section on Goering's personal standards) is July 19, 1940. Which date is correct? Other references seem to indicate that he was promoted to that rank in 1940. Coldwarrior 23:59, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

The correct date was June 19, 1940 (a lot of sources).--Gomeira 02:54, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I thought that the 1940 date was the correct one also. Are there any objections to clarifying this in the 'Political Career' section of the main article? --Coldwarrior 14:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Hermann GĂśring

Why does his name appear on the titlepage as Hermann Gasring? What is up with the type-recognition software on Wikipedia?! Nuttyskin 18:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Issues with the photo

Image:Hermann Wilhelm Goering Offiziell.jpg is an excellent lead photo. It has been flipped so that he 'looks into' the article. Unfortunately this makes the swastikas in his many awards back-to-front as well. While this is not visible (to me at least) in the thumbnail, I find it a bit intrusive on viewing the full picture. Any thoughts on how we can best address this? --Guinnog 17:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The photo appears to have been deleted now on the basis that there was no source information given. I think it's clearly fair use, though. Either it should be readded with source information and a fair-use rationale, or if a source is impossible to discern, then it should be readded with a fair-use rationale (fair use of source-unknown works is still perfectly legitimate). --Delirium 05:04, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and readded it, with a fair-use rationale. No more detailed source than "official Nazi photograph" appears to be known (as with many Nazi-era photographs), which of course does not preclude fair use so long as this fact is mentioned (which I have done). --Delirium 05:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Göring’s last prison interview

I added link from WW2 History mgazine of a lost transcript on Göring’s prison interview with US Army Intelligence before his trial. Check it out: http://www.historynet.com/wars_conflicts/world_war_2/3751042.html --Pilot expert 08:20, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Photo not correct

When you look closely at the photo: "Imperial Japan's Foreign Minister Yosuke Matsuoka, Adolf Hitler and Hermann Göring with gift from Japan in Berlin, Germany in 1941." you can tell by his uniform that the third men pictured is not H.Göring but a japanese Officer. 84.178.144.228 18:40, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

You are right: that's not Göring. White Guard 22:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Morphine Addiction

"Handsome and athletic in his youth, Göring sustained a painful injury during the Beer Hall Putsch, leaving him dependent on narcotic painkillers, particularly morphine. This addiction contributed to his later obesity. He would finally be cured of his addiction toward the end of his life during his imprisonment at Nuremberg." This isn't true, according to Anthony Read in "The Devils Disciples: Hitler's Inner Circle" Goring checked himself into a mental asylum in 1925 to break the Morphine habit. "Goring may or may not have been 'completely cured', as he and his doctors claimed - for the rest of his life there were conflicting reports on his drug habits. However when he gave himself up to the Americans at the end of the war he had only paracodeine tablets with him, and he was painlesssly weaned away from these within a few days. There was no evidence of morphine addiction, which would have involved a much more difficult withdrawal process."

In Alex Toland's "Adolf Hitler", there is reference to Göring arriving at prison with "a sizable cache" of drugs, but was free of them (and had lost weight) by the time the trial started. 66.28.178.67 22:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Morphine Addict and Transvestite

"It has also been strongly suggested that he was a morphine addict and a transvestite." From reading this talk page it seems to me this claim is relatively unknown and far from strongly suggested. The sentence is also out of place due to it's immediante following of a sentence about his unpopularity with the German people. I've removed the sentence from the article. --New014 01:29, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

The Story of the Brave Henryk...

...sounds more like fiction than fact. Even if he's a real person (as opposed to a myth) then simply mentioning him and his fate should be sufficient. Quoting the Nazi officer and the "smashed to pulp" part should be taken out.--Zealander 15:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I just came across this article, and got the same impression. I second that assertion, if an IP address can do that.70.21.216.114 18:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The story could not be verified whatsoever. Therefore I deleted the section in question. 141.13.8.14 14:45, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Meyer

What is the origin of the notorious You may call me Meyer quote? Where was it first reported/published? Was it an official speech or an informal comment? Bastie 21:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

This is from Fighter by Len Deighton:

And German radar sets proved excellent in use. In the winter of 1939-40, Freya radar units on the German islands of Wangerooge and Heligoland had detected incoming RAF raids so efficiently that Bomber Command formations were decimated. In May 1940, an anti-aircraft battery at Essen-Frintrop used a Wurzburg radar, and was able to shoot down an RAF bomber which they could not see. This so impressed Göring that he made a public announcement that no enemy aircraft would ever fly across Germany. It was a remark he was never allowed to forget.

Drutt (talk) 04:44, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Goering's IQ

Is it true, that Goering had IQ-180??? Have you any information?

He had the 2nd highest IQ of the prisoners, many of whom were very intelligent (some of whom were deranged and not very intelligent as well). This was based on tests done by the pyschologists.

Take a look at this. Goering's I.Q. is quoted at 138. That would be the third highest, according to this. Ashnard _Talk ^Contribs 11:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Arsonist?

"Category:Arsonists|Goring, Hermann (for firebombing Rotterdam)" thats in the cats section... isn't that a little.... off? Do we put British Air Marshals who firebombed Dresden into that catagory too??? SGGH

in fact, ive removed that for the time being. If there is a legitamate reason for it being there then of course it can go back, but if not It's unencyclopedic POV IMO. SGGH 23:00, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

It was done here, ages back in October. Whiffs of just vandalism for me so I believe the removal to be justified. SGGH 23:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section

Shouldn't this be deleted as the information is integrated into the article itself, making this repetition? Not really sure how to do this myself though. Leonurus 16:38, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Have gone ahead and integrated info re his brother and deleted trivia section. Leonurus

Allegiance to the Weimar Republic

In the box on the right of the article it states his "allegiances" and has the Weimar Republic listed. This seems a bit misleading to me given that he actively campaigned against the Weimar Republic and helped lead the Beer Hall Putsch which had the ultimate aim of overthrowing it. I presume it wasn't the intention, but it doesn't seem correct to imply that his allegiances were to the Weimar Republic. Blankfrackis (talk) 20:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Death

Göring obviously took a capsule of Hydrogen Cyanide (HCN) as used in the vials by other Nazis (e.g. the Goebbels family and Himmler) for suicide. It works a little different than Potassium Cyanide (KCN) which needs the Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) of the stomach to set free HCN. The reports about Himmler's death are consistent with HCN (given by Colonel Michael Murphy and Captain Tom Selvester, according to Fraenkel/Manvell: Himmler). It was not possible to rescue him. --charlandes 18:54, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Göring was the second highest ranking Nazi official brought before the Nuremberg Trials?

Rudolf Hess was the Deputy Führer (former, but still) and technically the second's highest man in Germany after Hitler. Regards, --Kurt Leyman 11:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Hermann Göring was named Hitler's immediate successor and called the second in command by Hitler himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.209.70.189 (talk) 18:15, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Karl Donitz was named President of Germany by Hitler, with Goebbels as his Chancellor. This is fiction about Goring being "Hitler's designated successor" and should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HSDR (talk • contribs) 05:37, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

German Idiom

"I want to be called Meier if ..." is a German idiom to express that something is impossible. Meier (including spelling variants) is the second most common surname in Germany.)"

I would contest that. I am German and I have studied Germanistics at University, but I have never come accross this idiom, neither as an anachronistic one, nor a modern one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.247.40.116 (talk • contribs)

POV Comment?

"The 1925 reports revealed Göring to be weak of character, an hysteric, an unstable personality, sentimental yet callous, violent when afraid and as a person who deployed bravado to hide a basic lack of moral courage."

Is it just me or is this quote from the Wikipedia somewhat POV? --Hexiva 20:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's not a Wikipedia editor's opinion, it's taken from a report done in 1925, as the article states, and is sourced. It could be rewritten to be less ambiguous that this is a contemporary assessment of Goering, not someone's feeling towards him today. Freshacconci 20:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Warren Beatty biopic?

The article currently says, "Warren Beatty was interested in doing a Göring movie for years, but he signed on to play Dick Tracy." This strikes me as silly. What's Dick Tracy have to do with it? Was Beatty given the choice of making a Göring movie or playing Dick Tracy? Or did playing Dick Tracy somehow erase his interest in a Göring biopic? Having absolutely no knowledge about the actual facts here, I don't feel comfortable messing with the article, but I suspect someone familiar with the subject should reword that... -- Captain Disdain 23:08, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Information box . . .

This info box makes Goering seem like a hero. I want to add a section called "Criminal record," but the Wiki system won't let me do so.

I propose to add the following and would like to know how to do it:

|criminal record=Sought in 1923 on a charge of treason (evaded arrest). Arrested 25 April 1945 on a charge of high treason, convicted without a trial, sentenced to death (not carried out). Arrested 9 May 1945, later charged with crimes against peace, war crimes, crimes against humanity and conspiracy to commit crimes alleged in other counts. Convicted on all charges, sentenced to death (not carried out).}}

Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 02:16, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Your criminal record bit here is way too long for an infobox, but perhaps a section for war criminals, like:

|war criminal=Crimes again humanity, crimes against the peace, etc...

Or perhaps a special infobox for Nazis. But as to making "Goering seem like a hero," it is a military infobox, and all soldiers are heroic to somebody. Remember, in WWI Göring WAS an honorable soldier. But at least here for Göring, the introduction and the Nazi flag under "allegiance" in the infobox are more than enough to inform even the most ignorant reader that Göring was evil.

TuckerResearch (talk) 17:37, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Early life/Ritter von Epenstein

The following sentence is in the second paragraph of this section: "In 1914 he tried to commit suicide however, he was found by his mother, Joseph Goring and was sent to hospital." First, I'm not sure if the "he" who attempted suicide was Goring or Ritter von Epenstein, given the flow of the paragraph. Second, surely Joseph Goring was not someone's mother. A part of this sentence must be missing. --JGC1010 (talk) 02:49, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

After all this time, I figured it was okay to just delete the name Joseph Goring from the sentence quoted above.JGC1010 (talk) 20:24, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Revision

I have moved some things around, posted a picture from Wikimedia Commons, fixed several of the citations, added a few citations, and fixed some sections, including revamping the "Sources" section.

I still believe that this article needs to be reorganized in a few places, and is perhaps overlong in one or two spots.

Some better links need to be put together as well. I have updated the Wikimedia Commons page too.

TuckerResearch (talk) 17:31, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

very very well put together, thanks

I just wanted to compliment whom ever wrote this page. Great job, very informative and well rounded.

69.231.23.110 (talk) 04:57, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

very very well put together, thanks

I just wanted to compliment whom ever wrote this page. Great job, very informative and well rounded.

69.231.23.110 (talk) 04:58, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Karl (Ernst) Göring

Is it possible that Hermann´s brother Karl, who moved to the USA, is Karl Ernst Göring, or did he have two brothers with the same first name? In the first case, Karl Ernst would be the father of US-Airforce pilot Werner G. Göring. Can anyone clear this up? Thanks in advance, Eva 80.135.183.134 (talk) 15:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Economics Minister

Goering was not made officially made Minister of Economics; he just had de facto control of the economy as Head of the Four Year Plan. Schacht was directly succeeded by Funk. Dark Prime (talk) 21:04, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

of culture and revolver

I heard the famous quotation in a slightly different form, involving a hand: "When I hear the word culture, my hand reaches for the revolver". Does anyone have authentic information on this? Katzmik (talk) 11:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Inappropiate picture

Maybe it's just me, but I find the picture on the page rather inappropiate. For one thing it seems quite glorifying, but it's also apparently taken several decades before the end of the war. 95.89.101.53 (talk) 20:22, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

== I may have missed it in article. His Ist wife wife Carin did she return to sweden?

Did Gorings Firs Wife arin return to sweden?

Did Gorinmgs First wife return to sweden? Did she die ?Andreisme (talk) 22:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)