Talk:Harvey Milk

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Milk´s nickname

(I don´t speak English very well). I read in web page that Milk´s nickname was Glimpy Milch, no Glimpy Milk. In this article, I can read Milk´s nickmame as Glimpy Milk, what is correct? And also, what is his original last name? --190.166.192.80 (talk) 15:23, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey there - thanks for pointing this out. I looked it up and it seems that while you're completely correct that Milk's nickname was Glimpy Milch,[1] the school writing said Glimpy Milk instead[2]. FlyingToaster 15:29, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Per The Mayor of Castro Street, the book mentions both. The wording is accurate, however, that "Glimpy Milk" was the name used in the yearbook. Neighborhood kids, no doubt with Yiddish backgrounds, called him "Glimpy Milch". I am unaware of the difference since I have no Yiddish background, but don't think the full text should point out the difference because it would be distracting. If others feel that it is a point of contention, it can be added in a footnote. --Moni3 (talk) 15:38, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's article worthy, but as milch refers to animals capable of lactating, calling him milch may have been meant to insinuate that he was effeminate and/or talkative. Maybe today he'd be Harvey MILF. FlyingToaster 15:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

stringent?

The Gay Rights ordinance was described in this article as stringent. In what ways was it stringent? That word doesn't seem right. I have removed the word until further clarification. Kingturtle (talk) 16:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Found in this section: The ordinance was called the "most stringent and encompassing in the nation", and its passing demonstrated "the growing political power of homosexuals", according to The New York Times[3]. --Moni3 (talk) 19:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Medora Payne

The following sentence could use some ironing out:

An 11-year-old neighborhood girl joyfully ordered gay men and Irish grandmothers to work on the campaign, despite her mother's discouragement.

Having read the sentence several times I'm still unclear what happened. Did she actually "order" people who weren't going to work on the campaign to do so? I suspect not, but hey, some people have the gift of leadership. Or was she somehow in charge of existing volunteers? Some clarification would be helpful.

Also, Moni3 is right, the claim is cited... that is, the citation seems to cover the entire paragraph. However, the cite note is a few sentences away and the subject changes from chaos in the campaign to relationship of between Milk and Smith, so I found it hard to connect the citation to the claim. It would help substantiate the claim if a citation was added directly to the sentence, perhaps with a specific page number.

Anyway, it's an interesting tidbit to add, just needs some clarification and more immediately connected citation. IMHO. :-) SnappingTurtle (talk) 20:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

However, also consider whether or not it contributes to the topic of the paragraph. Unless it can be connected to the subject matter very clearly, it may just be an example of trivia ("interesting tidbit") and therefore should be removed from the paragraph. However, if it's an example of how disorganized the Milk campaign is (if that's its purpose for appearing in the source material) and is written as such, then it probably has more reason to stay.Luminum (talk) 20:50, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Milk had older neighborhood residents, gay guys in leather, random people he pulled off the street, and a Chinese American straight guy he kept calling his little lotus blossom all hanging around Castro Camera at any one time. Payne put them all to work. When Harvey lost the campaign for Assemblyman, she went to the campaign manager the day after and cried with him. The page range discusses the chaotic nature of the campaign headquarters. Milk's relationship ending was a result of this constant campaigning and his blustery random temper that was a part of Castro Camera's chaos. If you'd like a cite with info about Payne, I can do that. The reason it wasn't done so when I wrote it is that it appears to be double-citing, but whatever. --Moni3 (talk) 20:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, then how about something like as follows, borrowing from your paragraph above:

Milk had older neighborhood residents, gay men, and random people he pulled off the street all working on the campaign. There was even an 11-year-old neighborhood girl who joyfully gave orders to adult volunteers. [provide citation here]

[new paragraph

Milk himself was hyperactive and ...

That provides more of a connection to the subject of the paragraph, which was the chaotic and diverse nature of the campaign. It also provides a clear transition to the related but slightly different topic of Milk's personal life. SnappingTurtle (talk) 21:09, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Best of obth worlds, I hope. --Moni3 (talk) 21:17, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Protecting the Article

Anyone else think this article should be locked? A lot of "controversial" and popular articles are locked to prevent vandals from ripping them to shreds. Has the Milk article ever had this problem?

67.142.130.47 (talk) 06:10, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

As far as I've noticed, there hasn't been much vandalism on the page that was consistent and/or difficult to reverse. I'm not sure how necessary it is.Luminum (talk) 06:18, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

The article was protected on Oscar night, but there was a large volume of readers. Otherwise, the vandalism has not been serious enough to protect the article. --Moni3 (talk) 11:59, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Jewish?

I've read non-reliable sources saying that Harvey was initially religiously Jewish but he then abandoned his religion later in life. He allegedly viewed homosexuality and Judaism as inherently in conflict.

Do we have any evidence of this in reliable sourcing? Do we have any evidence of him going to Jewish celebrations, ceremonies, and services? The Squicks (talk) 18:29, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

In an archived thread, found here Talk:Harvey_Milk/Archive_12#Infobox_edits, this has arisen previously. Milk grew up in a Jewish neighborhood. His grandfather was very active in the Jewish community. I have spoken with Stuart Milk, Harvey's nephew, who has claimed that Morris Milk, Harvey's grandfather, started three synagogues on Long Island. I have not been able to find a citation that confirms this, however. Harvey was involved in a Jewish fraternity at Albany State. Most of what has been written about Harvey is by gay writers who are not Jews. When Harvey was most active in gay politics, his religious views were not addressed by Randy Shilts much, or anyone else who was close to him. There is simply not much information on his religious views when he was his most active and famous. --Moni3 (talk) 17:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Milk's Fame Deserved?

Although had he not been murdered he might well have gone on to bigger things, Harvey Milk is proportionately more famous for accomplishing less within his life than any other positive (as opposed to notorious) figure than I can think of. Pushing fifty, he owned a camera shop and had held a low level, local elected position for less than one year. He was transformed into a gay “martyr” even though he was murdered along with the presumably very heterosexual (considering his marriage and many kids) mayor of San Francisco by a deranged fellow politico with a personal grievance. Mr. Milk was not even the first openly gay elected figure in the country, and I’ve heard friends of his acknowledge that the sobriquet “The Mayor of Castro Street” had been self-bestowed.

Does Mr. Milk really deserve all the attention he has generated since his passing?

This is a page for discussing the Wikipedia article and how it can be improved, not Milk himself. Thanks! Awadewit (talk) 16:53, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Although I was going to make the same point as Awadewit, I also wanted to point out that the last paragraph in this section discusses your question. I wanted to address it because similar concerns have been brought to the talk page to justify cutting portions of the article. Are you suggesting that Randy Shilts was a ghost writer for The Mayor of Castro Street, and it was originally penned by Milk himself? I have not heard such a claim, and reading somewhat about Randy Shilts, I find it highly dubious. If something else, please clarify. --Moni3 (talk) 16:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

--No, not at all. I simply meant that I have heard gay friends and acquaintances of his on television interviews who said they thought he had started to refer to himself by that title and then it caught on.

Look, remove my comment if you want. I didn’t mean it to be political in tenor, nor did I mean it as disrespectful towards Mr. Milk or the gay community. I do respect his memory as a man; first and foremost, as a former naval officer, as I am an (enlisted) Navy vet myself. I would have gladly saluted him had we been contemporaries and had had the opportunity.

My point is that it just seems that nothing bestows fame on a public individual more than having been assassinated. I often wonder if even Dr. King—a man who accomplished so much in his life—would ever have risen to his current status as a national icon had he not been murdered and lived on to old age. Even this well-written and unusually (for Wikipedia) comprehensive article alludes to this phenomenon. In Dr. King’s case, he was murdered for his cause.

Although Mr. Milk certainly accomplished more in life than myself and most people, how many politicians who had been city council members (not from a city in which you are from or lived) can you name thirty years after their deaths unless they went on to higher offices? How many outside the SF area had heard of him at the time of his death? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoryBuff14 (talk • contribs)

Thanks for the clarification. Milk did refer to himself as the Mayor of Castro Street. It is in the article. When I was constructing this article. I was trying to find a quote to end the lead to summarize Milk's effect. I did not find the quote by Anne Kronenberg until many months after I had written it. It was quite difficult to find a quote that addressed why Milk was such a memorable figure in gay community all over the US as well as to the city of San Francisco. Much of the tributes about Milk were as much remembering his life as lashing out at Dan White. Just two years after his assassination the Castro District was faced with the mounting AIDS crisis, and Milk's legacy became entwined with AIDS activism as gay activists who had cut their teeth during Milk's campaigns were in battles with government agencies over issues much more serious than what Milk had ever addressed during his short tenure as a politician and neighborhood activist. After weeks of reading and searching, I finally constructed the end paragraph to the Politics in the Legacy section.

Milk was reported in national media when he was elected supervisor. He made personal appearances all over California while he was debating John Briggs, so he was well-known at least in California. Not quite a household name in California, but politically-minded people knew him.

Btw, Milk wore a Navy diver belt buckle while he was a supervisor. I don't know how that's significant, but I remember reading it. --Moni3 (talk) 18:20, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

It's Judaism, not Jewish

Just leaving a note that religion of a person should be Judaism rather than Jewish. For example, he/she is a Jewish person that believes in Judaism. This kind of typo really shouldn't appear in featured FA articles (however this article does deserve featured status). I don't know about Harvey Milk's religion but this error should be corrected and wikified.

Note: This article is exactly 100 kilobytes long right now, Yay! --98.154.26.247 (talk) 22:10, 5 August 2009 (UTC)