Talk:Ramesses II

Ramesses II was one of the History good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 8, 2005	Good article nominee	Listed
June 23, 2006	Good article reassessment	Kept
July 19, 2008	Good article reassessment	Delisted

Current status: Delisted good article

Ancient Egypt B‑class Top‑importance

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WikiProject Ancient Egypt to-do list:

Needed articles.

We should have an article on every pyramid and every nome in Ancient Egypt. I'm sure the rest of us can think of other articles we should have.

Cleanup.

To start with, most of the general history articles badly need attention. And I'm told that at least some of the dynasty articles need work. Any other candidates?

Standardize the Chronology.

A boring task, but the benefit of doing it is that you can set the dates !(e.g., why say Khufu lived 2589-2566? As long as you keep the length of his reign correct, or cite a respected source, you can date it 2590-2567 or 2585-2563)

Stub sorting

Anyone? I consider this probably the most unimportant of tasks on Wikipedia, but if you believe it needs to be done . . .

Data sorting.

This is a project I'd like to take on some day, & could be applied to more of Wikipedia than just Ancient Egypt. Take one of the standard authorities of history or culture -- Herotodus, the Elder Pliny, the writings of Breasted or Kenneth Kitchen, & see if you can't smoothly merge quotations or information into relevant articles. Probably a good exercise for someone who owns one of those impressive texts, yet can't get access to a research library.

Egypt B‑class High‑importance

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Biography: Royalty and Nobility B‑class

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Politics B‑class Mid‑importance

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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 31, 2009, May 31, 2010, and May 31, 2011.

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Merge

This should probably be merged with Rameses II and one made into a redirect. Dates need to be straightened out? -- Infrogmation 07:22 23 May 2003 (UTC) he killed himself to kiss a angel — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.26.121.44 (talk) 03:30, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone know the source for his birthdate?

I haven't found the year of his birth in any of my 10 books. Which book did whoever put his date of birth of 1302 get it from?

How many years he ruled?

In the second paragraph it is mentioned as "and is known to have ruled Egypt from 1279 BC to 1213 BC[8] for 66 years and 2 months". How come 1279 BC - 1213 BC became 66 years. Shouldn't be 56 years? Please Clarify. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 20.139.83.50 (talk) 07:44, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ramesses I

Shouldn't Ramesses I be mentioned in the article, at least in some form? It just seems logical to me. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 06:17, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

It has been proposed in this section that Ramesses II be renamed and moved to Ramses II.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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Links: current log • target log • direct move

Ramesses II → Ramses II – I screwed this nomination up above, and I'm intending to re-nominate it for the same reasons. I'm suggesting that for this person, "Ramses II" is the common name. Britannica uses "Ramses II". (There are other ennumerated Ramses, but I'm not including those articles in this nomination as one user proposed in the previous discussion because it is entirely possible that the common name for each might be different.) Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:10, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose We should at a minimum be consistent about this: They're the same dynasty; it's the same name. There is no reason whatever to spell it different ways in related articles, and imposing that minor confusion is a cost to the reader.
Which spellings we should use in the entire set is another question. As the article will show, the contemporary pronunciation is a guessing game, but neither of these is the best bet. Which of the several representations in other ancient lanugages is most recognizable to somebody familiar with the subject is not clear; but the present title is as good as any. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:54, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- There's no reason the other ones couldn't be changed as well following any change; it would just need to be in a follow-up nomination. Since this person is the most written about of all the Ramses/Ramesses, it is the best place to start. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:01, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's hard to nail down the most common spelling for ancient Egyptian names; in many cases, including this one, I think it's a waste of time to try. But any source that uses a particular spelling for Ramesses II will apply that same spelling to other monarchs of the same name, so if one name is moved, they should all be moved. Essentially, I agree with Pmanderson, although being indifferent to which spelling is used, I'm not opposing outright. A. Parrot (talk) 06:26, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What I disagree with is the use of the Britannica as some sort of benchmark. I'm not sure about the spelling issue at the moment. Dougweller (talk) 13:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It was cited as an example and was not intended as a benchmark. I could have set out the standard google-type comparisons to show that Ramses II, is about 3 times as common as Ramesses II in straight-up hits, but I rather just made the statement that Ramses II is the common name. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:18, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support rename per nominator. Steam5 (talk) 03:31, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support per common name. carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 01:22, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First Syrian Campaign

I'm not satisfied by the source of information here, I don't have access to Grimel's book. I want to know particularly the basis for "His records tell us that he was forced to fight a Palestinian prince who was mortally wounded by an Egyptian archer, and whose army was subsequently routed. Ramesses carried off the princes of Palestine as live prisoners to Egypt."