Talk:Team Fortress 2

Spy origins

The article says the spy is of "ambiguous origins (but with an unambiguous penchant for cigarettes)", but isn't he French? I'd rather ask here than go trying to rephrase that myself... Thoughts?
Matthew Blaine (talk) 07:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

The spy's accent hasn't been confirmed in reliable/official sources. Due to the very large amount of suggestions for the spy's accent (French, Italian, Spanish, English, Scottish, South African and Mexican have all been put forward on this page), we left it out per WP:OR. All other accents except the pyro can be sourced, this one can't. -- Sabre (talk) 12:47, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

On the spy update page http://www.teamfortress.com/spyupdate/english.htm there is a “portable Baccarat detector” Baccarat is most popular in France —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.114.165 (talk) 13:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

In the new meat the spy video at the end he speaks French http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTj6tauY1JU I’m not asking for this to be put in the article until this video becomes official. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theinnocentguy (talk • contribs) 13:35, 17 May 2009

He definitely sounds french in the video, although i can't remember it being explicitly stated anywhere, so I don't think it can be accepted as fact yet. 202.53.199.72 (talk) 03:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

He speaks French at the end of Meet the Spy (it's on YouTube, look it up), saying "ma petit chou fleur" which means "my little cauliflower". —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 08:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

So do Tony Blair and The Queen. Does that make them French? Are French speaking Canadians, French or Canadian? Was I German whilst I was learning their language at school? - X201 (talk) 09:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll certainly admit that the video certainly conveyed a very strong French from-France-itself feeling, the accent from both spies was far more readily identifiable as French and the music in particular at the end was stereotypical France. And the Queen is German. -- Sabre (talk) 10:55, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

When he speaks french, he does not do so with a French accent. (I am French, so I would know). Plus, he says "ma petit chou-fleur", when it should be "mon petit chou-fleur" (gender mistake). Plus, the way he pronounces the "R" is no french at all :). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.205.130.156 (talk) 00:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

That is maybe because he is... well... a Spy. Did you ever heard a Scout in French accenent? "Need a dispeneur 'ere? And if we go by that logic, the Medics German speaking parts are also wrong (Dummköpfe instead of Dummkopfs, Schweinehunde instead of Schweinhunds, but to be honest, I kind of find it funny). Does that mean the Medic is not German? Maybe a Spy? 130.83.87.32 (talk) 11:24, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

That could just be because he's voiced by an American actor who can't do a very good French accent, it doesn't mean the character isn't intended to be French. Even though "ma petit chou-fleur" is grammatically incorrect, it's still French. It's like me saying "I are going to edit Wikipedia" - although incorrect, it's still English. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 09:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

But as X201 pointed out, him speaking french does not make him french. I can speak english, I sometimes express myself in english (even in France), but I'm still French... Is there any "real" proof (instead of hints) Valve intended the Spy to be french? Because they've been doing a real great job on other characters. Why wouldn't they on the Spy? I'm sure there is a lot of french voice talents out here in the US. Or why not just use the French voice talents, who did TF2 french voices? Why not ask those who translated TF2 in French to verify just this little sentence? That's why I am surprised... I spent a lot of time trying to get where he'd come from, I even extracted the spy sounds from the CGF files so that I could hear them all, and could not get it. When I saw here on Wikipedia that he was supposed to be French, I was baffled. I would NEVER have thought so. But... That's just my thought. Valve did a real great job everywhere, I am surprised they would not on the spy :)

As an Australian, I can tell you that they didn't do a great job on every other character's voice. Is that to say the sniper is just "pretending" to be Australian as well? This is ridiculous. It's like a bunch of bureaucrats arguing over whether or not a form should be signed at the top or at the bottom when the form is self explanatory and barely relevant in itself. He is supposed to be French. The Cake is a Lie ^{T / C} 07:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The Spy speaks French (Merde), Spanish (Amigo) and Italian (Cant remember) as well as English in-game. 92.3.237.66 (talk) 18:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Someone has changed the Spy to French, but I don't see a consensus here on talk (and if the poster above is correct, such a consensus is impossible as the Spy would appear to be intentionally of ambiguous origins. Since the only reference in the Spy section doesn't mention his nationality, I've changed it back to ambiguous origins. Surely it should be ambiguous until we can astern it? 91.85.138.20 (talk) 22:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps we should have no information, and simply have it read "The Spy is a charectar with a penchant for cigarettes"? Prokhorovka (talk) 20:38, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

He's French. The video plays classicly French music in the background while he reminisces about Scout's Mom. Team Fortress 2 isn't overly elaborate about character development and mystery, and delving into convoluted and technical hypothesis regarding the possibility of his accent being false seems somewhat fanboy-ish. If it's really a problem, somebody should e-mail Valve and ask for a definitive answer that can be cited since "ambiguous origins" is equally speculative. The Cake is a Lie ^{T / C} 07:59, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

It does imply that, but he speaks several languages and his accent is deliberately disguised. I still think just dropping all information about his nationality is the best way to go. Even if someone did e-mail Valve there would be no way of verifying their response wasn't faked by said user. I guess we could ask them to make a statement on their site, but I doubt they'll bother. Prokhorovka (talk) 17:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Considering the wide variety of languages he speaks in game, the fact that he perfectly replicates a Scout's voice (I don't know if that's an effect of the disguise, does it really matter?) and that he's a damn spy, I'm not sure accents should even be taken into account. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.62.178.202 (talk) 05:29, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

For me, it's not the language or accent he speaks in, but the accordion that plays when he picks up the photo of him and the Scout's mom. He's without a doubt intended to be French. (Momus (talk) 20:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC))

Unquestionably French. Lets remember that the characters are blatant stereotypes and the absurd number of french references (even cigarette smoking) should not be overanalyzed . Even if you don't agree with me, 'ambiguous origins' is unsubstantiated and should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.105.142 (talk) 13:42, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

While this may or may not be a reliable source of information, Team Fortress 2 Wiki clearly states that the spy originated from France- http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Spy ～Comicreader13

User editable wikis are not reliable sources. Rehevkor ✉ 14:15, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Soldier refers to Spy as French in several of his domination lines ("Hit the showers, Frenchie"). Whether or not Soldier qualifies as a reliable source is questionable, though: he also refers to Engineer as Canadian. 88.159.200.2 (talk) 13:43, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

That's because he accuses the Engineer for being a draft-dodger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_dodger. 79.254.5.31 (talk) 05:32, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

How about this as a source? Says he's French. http://www.wegame.com/games/tf2/spy-tf2/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.34.211.24 (talk) 19:34, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

No. It's also a copy/paste of [1]. Rehevkor ✉ 19:37, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

For information, the most recent update for TF2 added more implication that the spy is French, including the new revolver "L'Etranger" and the overall Algerian-themed "Saharan Spy" kit. 203.217.150.69 (talk) 03:17, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

The most recent update to the official Team Fortress website lists his country of origin as France [2] Radical Ans ✉ 02:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Too many refs

I'm not sure that an article on a single video game needs 77 references. Smurfy 16:17, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, I can confidently say you are wrong. An article on anything requires as many references as needed to verify its content. Its nothing out of the ordinary for an article at GA status, compare with other GA or FA articless: Halo: Combat Evolved (FA) has 107, StarCraft (FA) has 93, Doom 3 (GA) has 66. 70 odd references for an article about a game critically acclaimed within the video game media, plus one with an extended development history, is nothing abnormal. -- Sabre (talk) 16:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

WP:DENY Rehevkor ✉ 17:06, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

"Meet the..." videos as machinima?

They clearly don't use the same engine (or at least the same version of the engine) that the game uses, and they don't feature actual gameplay. Is it correct to label them as machinima? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.46.106.122 (talk) 23:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Got any sources to back that up? The engine is the same unless proven otherwise, although the videos, like that of the L4D trailer, will have been subjected to post-processing. Machinima doesn't have to be representative of gameplay, merely rendered using the game engine. -- Sabre (talk) 00:00, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I thought that the point of machinima is that it uses game assets as well as engine. The models are not game models (they have complex facial animation), and the animation is not game animation. I doubt that the game engine could render them in real time. I am more inclined to demand that the claim that they ARE machinima be backed up with sources. 203.83.193.114 (talk) 07:48, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Agreed; the idea that "the engine is the same unless proven otherwise" doesn't fit with WP:V. We should only be calling the videos machinima if a given, reliable source has also called them that. --McGeddon (talk) 10:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Valve use a special in-game recorder to do the official trailers. 92.3.237.66 (talk) 18:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

source? 69.132.87.99 (talk) 17:07, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

This may be relevant information:

The videos also helped the game's technology. Valve used Meet the Heavy to test the facial animation system the studio was developing for TF2. According to Walker, the new system "allowed our characters to have a much greater range of expressions than we were able to do in Half-Life… We wanted a test case for that." Ultimately, what they got to work in the Meet the Team videos is what would display for players running the game itself at its highest settings. Walker recalled that team's pleasure about "the expression on the Heavy at the end when he's shooting and screaming." It was no fake. "It wasn't this thing that the coolest bit in [the movie] was something that would happen in the game."

— http://kotaku.com/5273555/valve-dreams-of-team-fortress-2-movie-divulges-meet-the-team-origins

—216.171.189.244 (talk) 02:21, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Scout Update Date

The date of the Scout Update has to be wrong, there are only 28 days in February. - 68.8.253.223 (talk) 23:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Capitalizing the class names

In all of the biographies for the classes on their Meet The... pages, the names of the classes are all capitalized. This is the same in the "tip" parts of the loading screens, and mostly everywhere else where the class's names are shown. I am going to edit the page to follow this suit, but upon looking back in the history, I see that this has been done before, but was reverted. Why? 24.218.211.138 (talk) 16:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

MOS:CAPS: "Wikipedia's house style avoids unnecessary capitalization; most capitalization is for proper names, acronyms, and initialisms." - it's arguable whether the class names are considered "proper names" or not.

Watch your search-and-replace, either way: you've just edited once sentence to tautologically read "The Heavy is a stereotypical Russian character, with a huge figure and Heavy accent". --McGeddon (talk) 16:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I think that the class names should be treated as proper names. As the creator of this subject wrote, all the class names are proper on their Meet the Class pages. Class names are also capitalized on the update lists for TF2 updates. I think this would qualify for being used as proper names. 24.60.91.11 (talk) 00:27, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

The class names are common words—scout, sniper, pyro, all words reasonably standard words in gaming and (to an extent) military jargon. Simply because the game chooses to give emphasis to them doesn't mean we should; as stated above, it is unnecessary capitalisation, as well as looking unprofessional for presentation. -- Sabre (talk) 01:12, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps, but the point is not that it's not standard words in gaming or that it's okay for presentation - it's that these are their names. In every single piece of work where the class's names are mention, they are capitalized. In the article for TFC, it would be more proper for using lowercase, but here, with them each being separate characters with separate personalities, I think it would be more appropriate for the names to be made proper. 24.60.91.11 (talk) 01:41, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

While I'm not passionate about it, I also support capitalising them. Because while in general they are common words used in gaming, for this article they should be counted as names. 202.53.199.72 (talk) 06:16, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Once again I have added capitalization to the names of the classes. Considering that all official Valve material (including in-game, the Meet the Class vidos, and the official TF2 blog) capitalizes the names of the classes, it should only be followed on the Wikipedia page. Homepie (talk) 11:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Sniper next class update (spy update!)

I think it is apparent from the TF2 blog that the sniper is the next class being updated, however, it is not clearly stated that it is the one that is coming out NEXT. Cainine (talk) 00:16, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I doubt it, given that the post there was an obvious joke post (note that it was posted on April Fools' Day). I'm uncomfortable with this post alone as confirmation; could we get another one, or an interview or something else official, to corroborate that the Sniper's the next class to be updated? -Jeremy ^{(v^_^v Cardmaker)} 02:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Good point, I forgot what day it was. Sorry, Cainine (talk) 20:36, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Now that they've clarified, we can now say without hyperbole that the next class update will be the Sniper's. :) -Jeremy ^{(v^_^v Cardmaker)} 09:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

COnfirmed will be live in the next few days http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2497 Xubee (talk) 09:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

um cheak again [3] the nex update will be the spy www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2497

For all we know it could be both since Sniper weapons were on display (as well as the Spywatches), but the Spy's achievements being revealed kinda means he's a given (although descriptions of the achievements aren't available, likely due to how far out it is. -Jeremy ^{(v^_^v Cardmaker)} 03:08, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

It is both the Sniper and Spy classes. Updates have been added already. The Cake is a Lie ^{T / C} 06:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Pyro origins

The pyro has bean suspected to be female by a portion of the community Among other evidence there:

• what appears to be a purse in the pyros locker
• on the page http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2509 the sentence “Pyro's going to be inconsolable now”. For the first 2 min of the post being on the blog said "When the Pyro hears about this she'll be inconsolable."

valve have done this on many occasions such as the double bomb cart in the scout update and the cloaked spy behind the sniper on day 3. http://img196.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tf2page.jpg&via=tfrog. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.114.165 (talk) 13:41, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/090515/SHE_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theinnocentguy (talk • contribs)

"Suspected by fans" isn't of any relevance to an encyclopaedia article. When a source says the pyro's female, it can go in the article; analysing locker items and second-hand screenshots is WP:SYN. --McGeddon (talk) 17:29, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, anything Valve has said in re the Pyro's gender (or lack thereof) has been rescinded almost as soon as it has been uttered. -Jeremy ^{(v^_^v Cardmaker)} 03:10, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I believe that adding the information, after clearly labeling it as a fan speculation or a rumor(similar the the rumors in Super Mario 64 would be encyclopedic enough to add to the article. - ~VNinja~ 08:03, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

"Fan speculation or <> rumor" are never "encyclopedic enough". Rehevkor ✉ 14:26, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

I will note, however, if reliable sources (like IGN or Gamespot) in an article commented that fans speculated on the pyro's gender as being female, that could be included as a means to inject the fan communities' ideas. That said, I've never seen an article from such sources to infer this, so no, it still can't be added until one is found. --MASEM (t) 14:31, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay, So in the main menu, it suggested I try and get 3 assists using the Pyro, with the caption under it "Why not give *her* a shot."75.139.159.103 (talk) 06:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

It randomly chooses between him and her, actually. Valve are just toying with you, of course he's a man. He doesn't have feminine forms and his voice actor is a man (the same one as the Spy, at that). --142.213.254.2 (talk) 18:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Linking to TF2wiki

Does this external link really fail WP:ELNO? We avoid "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors", but this one's been around for a couple of years, and seems to have hundreds of editors. Does it have known stability issues? --McGeddon (talk) 22:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

It's currently having stability issues. -Jeremy ^{(v^_^v Cardmaker)} 05:44, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

The site appears to be down at the moment, but I assume that "stability" means "resistance to vandalism", in this context. (If server stability was an issue for Wikipedia external links, it would be a generic "never link to a site that has occasional downtime" guideline.) --McGeddon (talk) 09:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

(In fact, there is actually "Links that are not reliably functional" as a separate point in WP:ELNO.) --McGeddon (talk) 15:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

It is nothing but a spam. --SkyWalker (talk) 06:49, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

You're demonstrably wrong here, SkyWalker. -Jeremy ^{(v^_^v Cardmaker)} 07:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

How so?. The only links that must added are the official sites other than that it is spam.--SkyWalker (talk) 10:07, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

WP:ELYES permits links other than the official site of the subject: it allows "sites that contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail [or] other reasons." --McGeddon (talk) 10:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Ultimately, the external links have to be "helpful to the reader". What we have here is a fansite and a game guide. As a TF2 player, I've found it quite useful on occasion. However, from the reader's point of view when they've not played the game, they aren't going to be able to make heads or tails out of it. I don't believe that just because someone paid to put a fansite up on a host semi-related to Wikipedia, we have to link to it, not when it isn't a useful resource for the general reader. -- Sabre (talk) 10:58, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, "someone bought a domain and put a MediaWiki site on it" would be a silly reason to link to something. But I think the site meets "sites that contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail", and has sufficient editors and stability that it doesn't fall foul of the WP:ELNO wiki line. --McGeddon (talk) 15:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

But how much of it is actually useful to the general reader, as put in the "page in a nutshell" part of EL? What we have here is a guide written by players for players. As I said above, I find it useful as a TF2 player, but a reader who's looking for more information would be confused by the player-orientated presentation of the information on that site, and would be far better advised to be linked to official sources or journalism sources covering the game. -- Sabre (talk) 15:40, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

A lot of it seems to be straightforward presentation and statistical analysis of maps, weapons and character-class details; I'd say it fell within the "professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts" example of "too much detail for the article, fine for an external link" for WP:ELYES. It's a little dry, but no more baffling than sport statistics to a non-fan.

If there was an official source that had information approaching this level of detail, then there'd be fewer compelling reasons to link to TF2wiki, but the linked official sites are just a blog and some promotional screenshots and videos, at the moment. --McGeddon (talk) 17:42, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

How does TF2 disambiquously refer to Transformers 2? Transfomers is one word, and it's not called Transformers 2, but called Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. ["TF2" redirects here. For the sequel to the Transformers film, see Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen.] should be removed.

Lots of the Transformers community calls that series 'TF'. Revenge of the Fallen is the 2nd movie. Thus: TF2 could easily be an acronym used for it. DP76764 (Talk) 20:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

According to the Valve's TF2 blog, the TF2 Wiki is now an official site, so I think linking to it is appropriate now. WakiMiko (talk) 16:19, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

May be a bit redundant as it's clearly linked via the already linked main website. Although it's still an open wiki and WP:ELNO should still apply, I would not personally be opposed based it's official status. Rehevkor ✉ 16:30, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed that it was officialised. A Valve managed (if not necessarily edited) site is a different story in my mind than a random fan wikia, so I've reverted my removal of it. -- Sabre (talk) 21:54, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

"Leaked" Meet the Spy Video

I've seen throughout the internet that there is still debate as to whether the 'Meet the Spy' video was leaked on purpose or not. I figure this is not proof in itself but might weigh in somewhat during discussions. This is the HD Meet the Spy video off of Steam. Pause the video at 0:05 seconds. On screen is a giant board of words. "Intruder Alert", "Red Spy" and "In Base" are lit up. Look to the bottom left of the board. The bottom left most board says "Red Briefcase", I believe. Move one board above that, which reads "Hungry". And then -and this is the thing I want to point out- move one board to the right. The board there says "Leaked Video".

http://store.steampowered.com/app/5260/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.205.208 (talk) 22:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, that's original research unless a reliable source discusses it. DP76764 (Talk) 23:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It's probably an intentional thing or a nod to Internet "norms". Like how the copyright screens read "Copyright LOLOLOL". It was also released at the same time as the Sniper Vs. Spy update, so I can't see how the video being leaked at that point would have even made any difference. The Cake is a Lie ^{T / C} 02:09, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

The Leaked Video panel was added in the official release, in the leaked version, it said "Lost Memory." --96.241.163.178 (talk) 14:53, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Orange Box?

From the article it seems the game can be either purchased with the Orange Box, or alone through Steam. Does this mean the circa-15 dollar Team Fortress 2 released in stores dont support steam game? Or is it just that the version sold in stores is just not mentioned (and fully supports multiplayer accounts)? Thanks with clearing this out! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ergotoxin (talk • contribs) 16:17, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Steam doesn't exist for Xbox 360 or PS3, so ignore consoles for this - we're only talking about PC/Windows. You can buy the Orange Box (HL2Ep1+2, Portal, TF2 and Peggle Extreme) in DVD form from a high street or online store. You can also buy TF2 on its own this way. Both these combinations can also be bough through Steam, and downloaded to your hard drive instead of installing from a disc. However, TF2 does not exist without Steam - if you buy it on DVD, installing it installs Steam at the same time. The only benefit of the disc is that you don't have to wait for the large download (>3GB IIRC, although if you have any other Source games installed already the download is much smaller since it only has to download the TF2-specific content). —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 16:58, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Voices?

Does anybody know who voices the main characters? As in Heavy, Scout .ect - Bladez636 (talk · contribs)

All voice actors are mentioned here[4]. Interestingly, the Pyro and the Spy have the same voice actor, as do the Heavy and the Demoman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.179.189 (talk) 03:38, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Double references problem

Hi, guys! We have a problem. We have two different footnotes named "IGN": One defined in "Classes" section:

<ref name="IGN">{{cite web|url=http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/791/791200p1.html|publisher=[[IGN]]|title=''Team Fortress 2: Class Warfare''|date=[[2007-05-23]]|author=Goldstein, Hilary|accessdate=2007-09-21}}</ref>

The other in {{VG reviews}} box in "Reception" section:

<ref name="IGN">{{cite web|url=http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/826/826080p1.html|title=''Team Fortress 2'' Review|publisher=[[IGN]]|first=Charles|last=Onyett|date=2007-10-09|accessdate=2008-05-02}}</ref>

Since the article is using both, could someone rename one of it and check these references? Hołek ҉ 18:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I think I've done it myself. If there would be any reference mixed up, please correct. Hołek ҉ 18:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Update main page to include classes which have recieved the update

Update main page to include classes which have recieved the update. So far it only shows that the Medic class have been completely been retooled. This should be changed according to the current status. "The Medic, Pyro, Heavy Weapons Guy, Scout, Sniper & Spy have been completely retooled by Valve". This can be verified both ingame and on www.teamfortress2.com 203.101.92.123 (talk) 12:04, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Its already all mentioned in the "Release and ongoing development" section. The bit in the reception section with "retooled" in it is solely within the context of medic criticism, it shouldn't have the other classes mentioned because it isn't relevant to the point being made. -- Sabre (talk) 12:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Request

I heard from the blog, the updates are planned in October, any conformation, or anyone want to add it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.112.67.200 (talk) 03:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Public response on game updates

Since TF2 is one of the rare game which enjoys full fledged development support, not only for bug fixes and minor update but also major additions and game modes, I feel it would do more good if the kind of response it has recieved from the gaming community is added. If it is allowed, I could try and put some thought in this. Reason for doing so is that the reviews and ratings here reflect tf2 at the time of launch and its value has only increased since its inception approximately two years ago. 202.87.62.22 (talk) 12:57, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, find a reliable source discussing how 'the value has grown' and it can be added. DP76764 (Talk) 14:36, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The Sniper's Origin?

Just looking at the video, I've got to say the sniper's accent is NOT australian. He almost sounds like he's from London. Any thoughts? I dont want to change the article but I really think so! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.98.155 (talk) 13:02, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

It's part of the joke according to the developers, most classes are badly accented to poke fun at the characters being based on an inaccurate stereotype. Something like that Skeith (talk) 09:57, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Hats Disagreement/Controversy Section

Should we have a section regarding controversy in-regards to TF2? The Hats, achievement maps, idling, framerate issues, stuttering, halos, and TF2-vs-FF issues all are relevant to TF2 in my personal opinion. 72.68.32.112 (talk) 13:18, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

2nd this motion, it could do with a section Captain n00dle ^T/_C 17:21, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Such content would require decent coverage in reliable third-party sources to do warrant addition. If you have such sources (forums, fansites and other self-published sources aren't appropriate), produce them. These sorts of things are only relevant to the article if proper sources cover it. In any case, a "controversy" section wouldn't be appropriate, it would better be put into a new paragraph in the "Release and ongoing development" section. -- Sabre (talk) 17:52, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

 

The following should be okay: (The statement by valve is here: [5])

• http://www.incgamers.com/News/18390/community-uproar-over-tf2-item-removal
• http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2009/09/04/team-fortress-2-taking-items-away-from-cheaters/
• See also

Modifications have even been made by server operators to:

• Ban people with/without halos (no reference for this, I can't find one yet, but I know it has happened)
• Remove halos [6]
• Change the halo to read something like 'fag' [7] [8] [9]

There also seem to be a lot of anti-halo groups, most quite large. Including

• "Medics refusing to heal people with halos" [10]
• "People celebrating the fact that they idled" [11]

The model for the halo can also glitch, showing invisible spys if they have it equipped

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoSUcC7SF0o can anyone else find a better reference? it is all over the forums, but I can't find a real reference!
• Not sure that this counts... but still: http://nerfnow.com/comic/177/

Regards, Captain n00dle ^T/_C 17:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Captain-n00dle (talk • contribs) 17:08, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Comics, forums, Steam groups, blogs and youtube posts all fail to qualify as reliable sources. Keep looking! DP76764 (Talk) 17:43, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Does this take into account that most of these were the original sources of information? For example, public sourcemod plugins are released onto the sourcemod forum and normally no where else? There have been no news articles about the plugins or the bugs yet, and there are not likely to be any in the future, however they are completely documented in those posts. For sourcemod plugins it is simply easier to have the website in that format to comment on other's work. Its not like the posts are just someone gossiping! Captain n00dle ^T/_C 18:07, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

( p.s. I don't really know enough about referencing :-/ )

Well, Wikipedia prefers reliable, 3rd party sources (as explained in the policy I linked). Using primary sources is usually frowned upon, as any 'interpretation' made using them usually constitutes original research, which is definitely not allowed. It doesn't matter if the posts are "in earnest" or just gossip; the point is that they are made by totally anonymous persons and there is no editorial oversight or fact checking involved. If this is a big enough deal, there will eventually be reliable sources discussing it; if not, then it's probably not notable enough to mention in the article at all. DP76764 (Talk) 18:20, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Hurm, as another note, the whole point of citations is to make the article verifiable, these links provide that verification and add more weight than perhaps a second hand news article would? They should be classed as "Primary sources" as they document the original digital work? Captain n00dle ^T/_C 18:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Please review the policy on reliable sources, particularly this part. DP76764 (Talk) 18:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Censored in Germany?

Could anyone clarify if the game got censored in Germany? 22:23, 16 October 2009 (UTC) Cid SilverWing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.166.178.16 (talk)

Yes it got, despite you need to be 18 to be allowed to play this game (PEGI rating was 16, and there is no sense in child protection if only 18 years old are allowed to play it). I was kind of pissed, when I buyed this game, because Valve never stated, that the game was consored. I complained and got my money back. If you gib someone or get gibbed instead of blood and gore you will get this http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/9/93/Party_gibs.png . This and a bad voice translation. 130.83.87.32 (talk) 11:33, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Aye; Meet the Soldier's German version is censored in a similar manner. -Jeremy ^{(v^_^v Stop... at a WHAMMY!!)} 20:26, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

The game's backstory

We need to write a new section detailing the game's backstory, as revealed in recent updates. The article makes no mention of Mann Co., TF Industries, The Announcer, Saxton Hale, Zepheniah Mann, Redmond and Blutarch, or the fact that RED and BLU are actually owned by the same company and kept fighting for unknown purposes.

I think that with the Engineer Update (the last update currently known to be planned) Valve is finally going to reveal the world of TF2, the reasons why RED and BLU are fighting, and all that jazz.

We also need to mention how Valve has seeded the story since launch day (TF Industries has always been in the game) and how they have revealed it in updates and through comics. -- Love, Smurfy 18:15, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

While I do agree we do need to mention the backstory, your whole second paragraph is speculation and thus not something we can or should put in the article. —Jeremy ^{(v^_^v Boribori!)} 20:30, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

System requirements?

Anyone think that the system requirements bit needs updating, or at least notes? Since the numerous updates to the games I've known people whose performance has gotten worse, to the point of some not even being able to play the game.

I know Valve themselves haven't changed it as seen on the steam store page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/440/), but should it be kept official? Plus the stories of people upping their graphics to attain better framerates because processing gets transferred to the GPU and all that.

I run a Core2 Duo at 1.7GHz with 2GB DDR2 RAM and a GeForce 8400MS on multicore rendering, and still have everything set to low in order to run 15-40 FPS on average. Texture is on high because it doesn't seem to affect performance whatsoever.

And yeah I've been meaning to get an account. 206.21.96.139 (talk) 21:21, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like something that is more relevant on Valve's forums than this talk page. I'm not sure why we mention system requirements here anyway. --Golbez (talk) 21:26, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Saxton Hale

Valve has made a great effort in making it's players aware of Saxton Hale, and he has become a major part of the "lore" of TF2, along with the Announcer. The closest reference you see to him in the actual game is the MANN CO. stamp on the Soldier's Direct Hit rocket launcher, though I would wager a major part of the community knows exactly who he is and what he represents to the game. He's made blog posts, been featured in update news, and even mailed letters to curious fans. I'm wondering if this deserves any kind of mention, or if we should keep to the game. EdenMaster (talk) 20:35, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Any independent coverage? Rehevkor ✉ 20:42, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Sandvich

I think that there should be a section about the cultural impacts of TF2 on the page. Does anyone agree?--Mamaluigisover9000 (talk) 01:02, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

IMDb link

I have never played this game, I do not play this game, and I never intend to play this game, but I'm wondering why it isn't okay to add a simple link to this game's IMDb page: Team Fortress 2 at IMDb --- Why can't we have this? dogman15 (talk) 21:00, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello Dogman15, the IMDB link is about the People who make the characters voice/sounds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.115.31.208 (talk) 20:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Removed Vaporware

It's out. Why is it still on the Vaporware list? I took it off. Keep it off, people.--24.147.229.201 (talk) 14:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Its in that category because its still noteworthy from the historical perspective as a prominent example of vapourware. Just because it was (eventually) released doesn't mean it never was vapourware. -- Sabre (talk) 16:53, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It's Vaporware if it wasn't released. Keep it off. Or I have you reported for vandalism.--24.147.229.201 (talk) 20:55, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

That's not how you gain favor here. You discuss. I agree with Sabre, it was famous for being vaporware. Barack Obama isn't a senator anymore, but he'd still be categorized as one. :) --Golbez (talk) 21:32, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Note that the parameters of the category are "articles on products (hardware, software, other) that can be considered (or were once considered) vaporware" (emphasis added), it is not meant to be a mere list of things currently considered vapourware. -- Sabre (talk) 21:49, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Clearly belongs in the category. IP warned for nearing 3RR. --MASEM (t) 22:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from LordTim446, 10 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Please Edit Awards, [BLS] Seal of Approval for over all balanced Game Play. http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013451295/home LordTim446 (talk) 17:13, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I can't seem to verify anything with that link. Can you provide another, preferably independent, source? What exactly is "[BLS]"? If it's just a group within the game it likely wouldn't be notable enough to mention in the article. Rehevkor ✉ 17:41, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: As stated above, that award is not notable for inclusion in this article. Thanks, Stickee (talk) 03:24, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite of "ongoing development"

With so many updates it's become a bit unwieldy. Here is what I propose.

On the PC Team Fortress 2 has received over 100 updates ranging from bugfixes to feature and content additions. Beginning in April, 2008 with the Pyro update and ending in July, 2010 with the Engineer update the principal focus of updates were the so called class updates. Where each class given alternate weapons with different abilities, while putting in certain drawbacks to each unlockable weapon to maintain balance. Each class update also includes various other additions such as game modes, maps and cosmetic items such as hats or badges. These items are awarded to the player in a variety of ways; some items are promotional and require the player to own a game or buy a newly released game before a certain date, many weapons can be unlocked by completing specific achievements for that particular class, weapons that do not have achievements tied to them can be found by crafting other items together or found by the random drop system. To hasten obtaining these unlockable weapons and cosmetic hats, a minority of players began using third party programs that idle the player's client on a server whilst external to the game. In response, Valve removed any items gained using these programs, and awarded those who did not use these programs with a free hat. As a part of Valve's OS X gaming initiative a port of Team Fortress 2 to OS X was released on June 10, 2010 with special Earbud item given to players playing the game on a Mac before June 14, though the giveaway period was later extended to August 16.

Community involvement has been a significant part of Team Fortress 2's ongoing development. Popular community made maps are usually included with major updates and in January, 2010 Valve started allowing users to submit additional content, such as hats, weapons and Steam avatars, through a contribution site. After a couple smaller updates with community created content Valve released the "Mann-Conomy" update which added 65 items, most of them community created, the Mann Co. Store where players can purchase items with funds added to their Steam wallet, and trading. The creators of the community made weapons and other items receive a 25% royalty of each sale which due to the popularity of some item sets resulted in substantial royalty checks. Which Valve flew the creators out to their studio to present to them personally, some totaling $47,000 USD for the first two weeks the store was open. Some of the updates involve the community directly during their reveal, the Solider and Demoman update was based around a supposed war between Soldier and Demoman classes fighting over new weapons. Throughout the 7 days of the update, players were encouraged to play the Soldier and Demoman classes, as every kill of the opposite class would add to a tally and the winning class would receive a fourth item. On the day of the release it was revealed that the Soldier had killed more Demomen, and the gunboats, the secret item, was given to the Soldier. They are boots which drastically reduce damage from rocket jumping and occupy the second weapon slot.

With some better copy editing and citations of course, but basically what I'm thinking of. That would replace the sentence or two about each update and the main paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skeith (talk • contribs) 03:02, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I like it. As you say, the prose is a bit shakey and needs some sprucing up slightly, but its organisation is much better than the ramshackle stuff on class updates that we've got. Slight correction to the facts though, the first class update was the Goldrush Update for the medic, not the pyro one. -- Sabre (talk) 11:47, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Looks good, but the Medic was the first to receive a Class update, not the Pyro. EdenMaster (talk) 13:51, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

What type of game is this

The first paragraph does not mention anywhere what type of video game this is. It should be in the first sentence. I came here to figure out what kind of game it is and I still don't know, or I would add it myself. Byates5637 (talk) 21:57, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I have restored the first sentence to how it was a few months ago. It was probably accidentally cut out during the usual "hat simulator" vandalism. Rehevkor ✉ 22:01, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Updates

This. Apparently content and modifications which have more than doubled the game's content and significantly altered the way many players view the game apparently simply aren't "significant or critical to game's understanding". Brother Valencio (talk) 15:21, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

The details of every single update aren't important. Major changes - like item sharing and the store - are, and can be included, but we have no need to call out patch-by-patch. --MASEM (t) 15:36, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

This isn't a patch-by-patch call out. There are tonnes of little changes Valve made which have been missed out. But IMO, if Valve deemed it big enough to deserve a big promotional page on the TF2 website, it deserves a section. Australian Christmas introduced an entirely new game mode and you took it out, so I'm not entirely sure how you're deciding whether things are important or not. And given the importance with which Valve have given them, item sets at the very least deserve a mention (if I was given free reign, I would just create an entirely separate section to cover the game's 90+ items so they can be given the space and time they deserve without clogging up the updates section). Brother Valencio (talk) 15:48, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

What I'm saying is that from an encyclopedic standpoint, what each patch exactly did is not important - it is the net accumulation of those effects we want to report. I've edited this section to call out crafting, trading, and the store, and the three new modes (training, highlander, and medieval) (some of this stuff was missing before) And no, we are not a game guide - calling out every game item is not appropriate at all. --MASEM (t) 15:59, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, meh. I can see you're probably right here, although I still think the three or four items that drastically change a class' role and play style (like the Chargin' Targe) deserve a mention. Brother Valencio (talk) 16:22, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Valve Task Force Re-vitalization

Attention, all contributors to the Valve Task Force and the articles it constitutes!
I am here to announce that I will be re-vitalizing the Valve Task Force, aimed at universally improving articles constituting Valve Corporation, their employees, associates and products. This specific task force has been dormant for quite some time and with two very notable releases coming out this year, I feel like this is the appropriate time to re-stimulate the general aim of this group. For those who are not already members of the Valve Task Force, feel free to add your name to our members list and contribute to whatever articles you feel your contributions may prove beneficial for. Valve, its products and notable employees have proven to be essential to the progression of the video game industry, so I'd like to make a call of arms for this cause. DarthBotto _talk•cont 22:11, 08 February 2011 (UTC)

"Dalokohs Bar" mispelled

In the section about the Heavy in characters. the name of the "Dalokohs Bar" is mispelled as "Dalakohs Bar", can someone fix this? 66.59.49.88 (talk) 14:54, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Y Done. -- I need a name (talk) 18:18, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Japan Charity mention?

should the Japan charity be mentioned in the article? It raised over $400,000 from the players, and citation could come from the Team Fortress 2 Blog. If it should, where should it go in the article? Release and Ongoing Developing? Croben (talk) 16:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

_{PS) The mention will be up for 12 seconds. heh.}

Linux/WINE?

Even though the Linux operating system is not supported by VALVe for client-programs (servers they do support), it's a known fact that Team Fortress 2 along with Steam can work inside of WINE and run on par with the performance of Windows/OS X systems. Perhaps adding Linux (with WINE) under Platforms should be considered. Now that it is a Free to Play title, I would say it's a good idea to promote some Linux gaming as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.16.46.36 (talk) 03:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Unless Linux is officially supported by Valve it has no place in the infobox. Promotion should never be a reason to include anything in the article. If, however, the ability to play in Linux is covered by reliable sources, it could be mentioned somewhere in the article. Rehevkor ✉ 03:12, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Free to play

The game has now gone free (http://store.steampowered.com/app/440/). The article needs to be updated to reflect this. --77.215.75.103 (talk) 16:24, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

It has. Rehevkor ✉ 16:45, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

after a week after

There is a typo in the free to play section. The error is grammatical, search "after a week after" in the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.45.227.75 (talk) 14:56, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Snipers melee weapon

In the article, it states the Snipers melee weapon is a machete, when it is clearly a kukri, according to the weapon description, and the look of the weapon itself. Thoughts? Detective Sudo (talk) 11:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

It seems to use both within the article, although in the FAQ above says to use kukri per the in game inventory. Although the source attached to both [12] says machete.. Rehevkor ✉ 12:40, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

The game calls it a kukri, that's what it should be called here. -- Sabre (talk) 15:44, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Promo Hats (Marketing Section)

"[...]According to Robin Walker, Valve introduced these additional hats as an indirect means for players to show status within the game or their affiliation with another game series simply by visual appearance[95] (although a chosen few hats provide stat bonuses when combined with certain equipment).[96]"

Are there actually any promo hats that provide bonuses? I haven't seen any hat available for promotional reasons that would go with an item set. 12.28.164.2 (talk) 16:58, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

nevermind. I guess the part in the brackets is refering to hats in general, not just the promo hats. Is it possible to clarify that somehow? 12.28.164.2 (talk) 17:08, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Meet The Scout.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Do we really need the cosplay image?

I think it's a bit embarrassing to see. Do we really need it there?--Kingplatypus 00:16, 22 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingplatypus (talk • contribs)

Hats

We need a section about hats. Wikipedian192 (talk) 03:34, 11 May 2012 (UTC)