Jump to content

Talk:Hail Mary

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 98.119.35.93 (talk) at 15:32, 9 November 2012 (→Latin prayer). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Japanese heresy

What's with the "Japanese heresy" item? Not only is an explanation not given, but the link is grammatically incorrect.

The basic information that might go here can be found, e.g. in the on-line Catholic Encyclopedia. The Ave Maria is not as old as you might think... Wetman 20:41, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Actually, the hail mary is very very old, as it comes from the Gospel of St. Luke itself. The ending was added at the Council of Trent. --Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 00:04, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The basic description listed for the Hail Mary is inaccurate (the rosary is base up of 20 decades, not 5) and very incomplete.

I'd like to see the main blurb on the page updated to describe the prayer as based upon scripture (Luke 1:28 and Luke 1:42) and that it reinforces basic Christian belief that Jesus is both fully God and fully man when it calls Mary "Mother of God". --Jasonclifford 08:45, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Aquarian Age Hail Mary?

What is this about? It would be nice to have an explanation of why this is different from the standard English version. FreplySpang (talk) 13:49, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

How many versions?

Is it really necessary to have all those translations? And where will it end? How about cut it back to just the English - this is, after all the English Wikipedia. Maybe replace them with links to the same article in other languages. --StoatBringer 19:40, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Perhaps a Hail Mary (translations) page would be something someone can create? Not too sure about the title of that page though. [Sorry for not being bold.] --Derek 22:35, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Went ahead and did it. Here's what I removed:===Other languages===

12.47.208.34 23:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC) Chinese[reply]

Classical Chinese:
萬福馬利亞， 滿備聖寵者，
主與爾皆焉， 女中爾為讚美，
爾胎子耶穌， 並為讚美。
天主聖母馬利亞， 為我等罪人，
今祈天主， 及我等死候。
亞孟。

Modern Chinese:
萬福馬利亞，你充滿聖寵，
主與你同在，你在婦女中受讚頌，
你的親生子耶穌同受讚頌。
天主聖母馬利亞，
求你現在和我們臨終時，
為我們罪人祈求天主。
亞孟。

Italian

Ave Maria, piena di grazia,
il Signore è con te. Tu sei benedetta fra le donne
e benedetto è il frutto del tuo seno, Gesù.
Santa Maria, Madre di Dio,
prega per noi peccatori,
adesso e nell'ora della nostra morte.
Amen.

Spanish

Dios te salve María, llena eres de gracia,
el Señor es contigo.
Bendita tú eres entre todas las mujeres,
y bendito es el fruto de tu vientre, Jesús.
Santa María, Madre de Dios,
ruega por nosotros pecadores,
ahora y en la hora de nuestra muerte.
Amén.

Portuguese

Ave Maria, cheia de graça,
o Senhor é convosco.
Bendita sois vós entre as mulheres;
bendito é o fruto do vosso ventre, Jesus.
Santa Maria, mãe de Deus,
rogai por nós, pecadores,
agora e na hora da nossa morte.
Amém.

Hebrew

הו, מריה מלאת החסד
אדוני עִמך
ברוכה את מנשים
וברוך פרי בטנך ישוע
מריה הקדושה, אם האלוהים
התפללי עבורנו החוטאים
, עכשיו ובשעת מותנו
. אמן.


Polish

Zdrowaś Maryjo, łaskiś pełna,
Pan z Tobą.
Błogosławionaś Ty między niewiastami
i błogosławiony owoc żywota Twojego, Jezus.
Święta Maryjo, Matko Boża,
módl się za nami grzesznymi,
teraz i w godzinie śmierci naszej.
Amen.

German

Gegrüßet seist du, Maria, voll der Gnade,
der Herr ist mit dir.
Du bist gebenedeit unter den Frauen, und gebenedeit ist die Frucht deines Leibes, Jesus.
Heilige Maria,
Mutter Gottes,
bitte für uns Sünder jetzt und in der Stunde
unseres Todes.
Amen.

Dutch

Wees gegroet Maria, vol van genade,
de Heer is met U.
Gezegend zijt gij boven alle vrouwen,
en gezegend is de vrucht van Uw lichaam, Jezus.
Heilige Maria,
Moeder Gods,
bid voor ons, arme zondaars,
nu en in het uur van onze dood.
Amen.

French

Je vous salue, Marie pleine de grâces;
le Seigneur est avec vous.
Vous êtes bénie entre toutes les femmes
Et Jésus, le fruit de vos entrailles, est béni.
Sainte Marie, Mère de Dieu,
priez pour nous pauvres pécheurs,
maintenant et à l'heure de notre mort.
Amen.

Maltese

Sliem għalik Marija,
Bil-grazzja mimlija.
Is-Sinjur hu miegħek,
Imbierka int fost in-nisa
w imbierek hu il-frott tiegħek - Ġesu'
Qaddisa Marija, Omma Alla,
Itlob għalina midimbin
Issa u fis-siegħa tal-mewt tagħna
Amen.

Irish

Sé do Beatha Mhuire, Tá lán do ghrást, Tá an Tiarna leat. Is beannaithe thú idir mhná Agus is beannaithe toradh do bhrionne Íosa. A Naomh Mhuire mháthair Dé Ghúi orainn na bpeacaí Anois agus ar uair ár mbáis. Amen.

Japanese

恵みあふれる聖マリア、主はあなたとともにおられます。
主はあなたを選び、祝福し、あなたの子イエスも祝福されました。
神の母聖マリア、罪深いわたしたちのために、
今も、死を迎える時も祈ってください。　アーメン。

Russian

Радуйся, Мария, благодати полная!
Господь с Тобою;
благословенна Ты между женами,
и благословен плод чрева Твоего Иисус.
Святая Мария, Матерь Божия, молись о нас, грешных,
ныне и в час смерти нашей. Аминь.

Croatian

Zdravo, Marijo, milosti puna,
Gospodin s tobom,
blagoslovljena ti medu ženama
i blagoslovljen plod utrobe tvoje, Isus.

Sveta Marijo, Majko Božja,
moli za nas grešnike
sada i na času smrti naše. Amen.

Serbian

Zdravo Marijo, milosti puna!
Gospod s tobom;
Blagoslovena neka si među ženama,
i blagosloven neka je plod utrobe tvoje, Isus.
Sveta Marijo, Majko Božja, moli za nas grešnike,
sada i u trenu smrti naše. Amin

Filipino/Tagalog

Aba, Ginoong Maria! Napupuno ka ng grasya,
ang Panginoong Diyos ay sumasaiyo;
Bukod kang pinagpala sa babaeng lahat,
at pinagpala naman ang iyong Anak na si Hesus.
Santa Maria, Ina ng Diyos, ipanalangin mo kaming makasalanan,
ngayon at kung kami'y mamamatay.
Amen.

Kapampangan (a language of the Philippines)

Bapu Maria, mitnu ca qng grasya,
ing ginung Diyos atsu queca.
Nuan ca caring sablang babae,
nuan ya pa naman ing Bunga ning atiyan mo, si Hesus.
Santa Maria, Indu ning Diyos,
ipanalangin mo caming macasalanan,
ngeni at oras ning camatayan mi.
Amen.

Esperanto

Saluton, Maria, gracoplena.
La Sinjoro estas kun vi.
Benata estas vi inter la virinoj,
kaj benata estas la frukto de via sino, Jesuo.
Sankta Maria, Patrino de Dio,
preĝu por ni, pekuloj,
nun kaj en la horo de nia morto.
Amen.

Hawaiian

Aloha ‘oe, e Maria, ua piha ‘oe i ka maika‘i
ua noho pū ka Haku me ‘oe;
Pomaika‘i ‘oe i waena o nā wahine;
pomaika‘i Iesu ka hua o kou ‘opu.
Maria Hemolele, Makuahine o ke Akua
e pule aku ‘oe i ka Haku no makou no
ka po‘e kina nui ‘ia i keia manawa a
i kou makou manawa e make ai.
‘Amene.

Indonesian

Salam Maria, penuh rahmat.
Tuhan sertamu.
Terpujilah Engkau di antara wanita,
dan terpujilah buah tubuh-Mu, Yesus.
Santa Maria bunda Allah,
doakanlah kami yang berdosa ini,
sekarang dan waktu kami mati.
Amin.

Romanian

Bucurā-te Marie, cea plinā de har.
Domnul este cu tine.
Binecuvântata eşti tu intre femei,
şi binecuvântat este rodul trupului tāu, Isus.
Sfântā Marie, maica lui Dumnezeu,
roagā-te pentru noi pācātoşii,
acum şi in ora morţii noastre.
Amin.

Thai

วันทามารีอา เปี่ยมด้วยพระหรรษทาน (Hail Mary, who has graceful mercy.)
พระเจ้าสถิตกับท่าน (The Lord is with you.)
ผู้มีบุญกว่าหญิงใดๆ (She is the greatest blessed amongst women.)
และพระเยซูโอรสของท่าน ทรงบุญหนักหนา (And Jesus whom is her son, is her greatest bless.)
สันตะมารีอา มารดาพระเจ้า (Holy Mary, Mother of God.)
โปรดภาวนาเพื่อเราคนบาป (Please pray for us sinners.)
บัดนี้และเมื่อจะตาย อาเมน (Now and when we're dying. Amen.)

Tamil

arulniraindha mariae vazhga, karthar ummudane
pengalukkul aasirvadhikkappattaval neere
archishta mariae, sarvesvaranudaiya madhave
paavigalagiya engalukkaga, ippozhudhum, engal marana
nerathilum vendikkollum. Amen


Korean

은총이 가득하신 마리아님, 기뻐하소서.
주님께서 함께 계시니 여인 중에 복되시며
태중의 아들 예수님 또한 복되시나이다.
천주의 성모 마리아님,
이제와 저희 죽을 때
저희 죄인을 위하여 빌어 주소서. 아멘

Money or nothing.

Maybe he just meant you need money. This paragraph is confusing to me. I don't think the quote represents the concept.

The phrase "Hail Marys" is also used as an anti-pietist pejorative for "prayer" without "good works" as in the following quote atrributed to Msgr. Paul Marcinkus, former president of the Vatican Bank, now living in Sun City, Arizona: "You can't run the Church on Hail Marys" (quoted in the May 25, 1986, Observer, London). --Gbleem 18:22, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hail Mary martial arts attack

Is this for real? I've never heard of this. I Googled it and still found nothing. --Elliskev 03:34, 11 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Me too. I'm removing it until sourced. --Derek 18:19, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Other Meanings Redundant

There are more other meanings listed on the disambiguation page. I propose moving any new content from this section there and deleting the Other Meanings section. -- <anon>


Very nice, but where is the dab page? You forgot to link to it, so now all is lost. Kim Bruning 07:19, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Latin prayer

Is it really wise to remove the Latin version of the prayer Hail Mary? It is not a translation since the Latin is the original, so it should be place back in the text. 05 June 2006

I agree that the Latin has a place here. Not so with the other three dozen languages that were removed, but the Latin has a special significance and removing it goes too far in the other direction. --Kbh3rdtalk 17:50, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I was the one who removed it along with several other non-English versions, and I shouldn't have. The only thing to say is, I guess, mea culpa. Fishhead64 23:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have restored the Latin version back to the text as I gather from your opinions. 7 June 2006
Strictly speaking, the Greek is the original. Will add that shortly... InfernoXV 19:10, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The version in Greek translation to English, given, is based on the Latin translation, being a Latin Rite Catholic, I don't object much but a better translation might be: Virgin God-bearer, rejoice, Mary, being engraced, the Lord makes use of thee, having been praised art thou amongst women and having been praised also is thy womb's fruit, because thou hast brought our lives' Savior into the world.

No, that's not at all better, and a far too literal interpretation of the participles in use. It's a thoroughly awful translation, in fact. InfernoXV (talk) 04:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, but you're a shmuck wikipedia editor with no job so I find your appraisal of his translation highly dubious.

Why is the latin V prounouced incorrectly? Do catholics speak latin different then what is accepted as correct? 72.66.248.206 (talk) 18:30, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed this as well, overall, the audio file attached is actually really... lame sounding XD, but I can't answer your question about the 'V' not being pronounced as the traditional 'W'. It IS entirely possible that modern Roman Catholics pronounce it with a 'V' though. Pyrotics (talk) 16:06, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is in fact, more or less the case. See Ecclesiastical Latin. Ronyu02 (talk) 17:45, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is good reason to believe that the pronunciation of V in Latin changed from a 'w' to a 'v' sound in the 1st century AD. It is virtually certain that it was never pronounced as w in any Latin version of the Ave until modern times, and even then not in any living Catholic tradition. I would expect that Catholics adhere to the Church Latin pronunciation, which, as far as I can tell, pronounces Latin according Italian rules. I have certainly heard English-speaking Irish Catholics pronounce it that way. The restored pronunciation of Latin, which is pretty universal in schools in English-speaking countries, would be incorrect for the Ave. Koro Neil (talk) 02:52, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is the Maria in the restored Latin section with macrons supposed to be accusative? If it is an ablative of respect or something, should the a's have macrons too, or is there an exception?DearthOfMateriel (talk) 05:44, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Translation of Josquin poem

Hey, I'm wondering if there should be a translation of the Josquin poem somewhere on here. Since I'm a classics major, I thought I'd write up a rough one. This is a very rough translation, and Josquin's latin isn't that great (I'm used to Roman latin rather than medieval latin):

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord [is] with you, serene Virgin.
Hail to [her] whose pregancy,
full of sacred joy,
celestial, terrestrial,
full of new death (??).
Hail to [her] whose birth,
was our solemn observance,
that the rising light of the morning star
preceded the true sun.
Hail the holy humility,
fruitful without a man,
whose notification
was our salvation.
Hail the true virginity,
the immaculate chastity,
whose purity,
was our purification.
Hail to all those illustrious,
the angelic host,
whose assumption was,
our glory.
O Mother of God, remember me. Amen.

NOTE: Feel free to make corrections or to delete it entirely- I thought it might be useful to have a translation on the talk page. Oh, and I couldn't figure out what the heck he was tring to say with letitia, since it means "destruction" or "annihilation" in latin. And poems about the Virgin Mary rarely have to do with annihilation... -Elizabennet 15:52, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's the medieval spelling of laetitia, which means "joy". Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am surprised that there is no mention at all (unless I have missed it somehow) of the earliest source of the Ave Maria in Pseudo Matthew. Thinks with canonical texts were only made made centuries later. Can we add something about this?

Latin

The section where the prayer is given in latin was incorrect in how it put latin "Jesus". Firstly, it has an I instead of a J, and you wrote the nominative instead the accusative (Jesus=NOM Jesum=ACC) Just thought I'd mention that (I fixed it).Thelordsavenger 23:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Latin, the 'J' does NOT exist, it is usually replaced with an 'I' (for example, Iupiter instead of Jupiter). Pyrotics (talk) 16:04, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

roman-catholic-prayers.com is a spamming, domain parking page thing. I guess the link should be repaired or removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.30.2 (talk) 18:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ecclesiastical Latin Pronunciation

Can we get a better audio for the Latin pronuciation? It is terribly inaccurate. InFairness (talk) 19:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Never mind, I will upload one. InFairness (talk) 20:00, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Syriac Hail Mary

I have edited the Syriac version of Hail Mary to what the words are really saying. The translation of 'Margoneetho' isn't a Syriac translation, but is the official English version. The real words of the Syriac Hail Mary are:

Shlom leg bthulto Maryam malyath taybutho
Hail Virgin Mary, full of Grace
Moran 'ameg mbaragto at bneshe
Our Lord is with thee, Blessed art Thou amongst women
Wambaragu firo dabkarseg Moran Yeshu
And blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Our Lord Jesus (there is no Christ written!)
O qadishto Maryam yoldath Aloho
O Saint Mary, Mother of God (There is no Bthulto/Virgin in this phrase)
Saloy hlofayn hatoye, hosho wabsho'at mawtan amin
pray for us sinners, now and at all times, and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Please keep this in mind. I pray this every day in Syriac, so I know what the words really say in Syriac. Thank you. 80.56.5.133 (talk) 14:13, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article gives the official English version, of course, because this is the English Wikipedia. Tb (talk) 16:41, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Tb. I think Latin in Ok, but to have 97 different languages when there are other Wikis out there makes no sense. History2007 (talk) 16:52, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, I think you both don't understand me. When we talk about Hail Mary in the Syriac orthodox tradition, we need an English translation that equals the Syriac version. We do not need another traditional English version, because it would not be accurate, plus it would not make the Syriac version unique. Please view this website for a correct translation. It is in Dutch, but with a translator you will see that I am right. Greetings 80.56.5.133 (talk) 19:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think I need to pray a few Hail Mary's before I understand that argument. History2007 (talk) 19:29, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps we don't need the "Syriac version" anyhow? Tb (talk) 19:33, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The reference cited certainly seems to view the English presented that as really part of the Syriac orthodox tradition. We don't need a Syriac text at all...Tb (talk) 19:34, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Why do we not need a Syriac text all the sudden? We have a Syriac version for a long time, why didn't anyone say before that the Syriac version could be deleted? With all due the respect, but I find it quite strange to delete the text now, after I tried my very best to make my point. I want the text to stay, with the correct version ofcourse. If someone wants to put the Dutch site as a reference, that is no problem by me. I am looking forward to your reply. (sorry for my poor English mr. History2007, but I am from the Netherlands) 80.56.5.133 (talk) 20:14, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I was not commenting on your English, but on your logic. Anyway, enough said, and I am against it. Now, please let me go and pray that this discussion ends soon. History2007 (talk) 20:20, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This is the English Wikipedia. There is a reason (a small one) to have the English version the Syriac Orthodox church actually uses. There is not a reason to have a new translation of the Syriac words, which are neither the Syriac words, nor the English version the Syriac Orthodox church uses. Tb (talk) 21:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Amen. History2007 (talk) 21:21, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Tb, I hope I can explain my point clearly. I don't want phonetic Syriac words to be in the article, if that is what you mean. What I want is to change to current English translation of the "Syriac tradition" on the article to what the words literal are saying. Because basicly, the current English translation of the Syriac text is equal to the Catholic church, although the words slighty differ in the real Syriac orthodox text. The current English text of the Syriac section is the official English (catholic) Hail Mary text. It is not the real en good translation of the Syriac orthodox prayer. All I want is to add 'Virgin' in the beginning en to delete 'Christ' because only then it will be equal to the Syriac original text. Please I hope that you understand what I am trying to say. 80.56.5.133 (talk) 21:33, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I understand perfectly well what you say, and I disagree. What is printed there is what the Syriac Orthodox Church recommends for use in English. If you disagree with them, we aren't the place to complain about it. We are not saying it is a "good translation of the Syriac ... prayer"; we are saying that it is used by the Syriac Orthodox Church--or at least, they say it is on their website. It is not there to be a translation of the Syriac text; it is there as an example of a prayer in use by the Syriac Orthodox Church. But it's not clear at all why it should be on the page at all. Tb (talk) 21:42, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, you know what? Never mind. Wikipedia is claiming to provide truthful information. If you want the current text to stay, then Wikipedia, at least the English Wikipedia, does not reflect correct information. All I wanted to do is to help. I know what the Syriac orthodox Church teaches. I know their doctrines, their prayers etc. because I am Syriac orthodox. The website that is being referred to in the article (sor.cua.edu) isn't even the official Syr. orth. Church website. Because one website shows an official Catholic version as a translation you presume that the Syriac church recommends this for use in English. I showed you another Syriac website that shows you exactly the opposite, yet you claim that the current text should not be edited. I don't care anymore. If you want that Wikipedia provides incorrect information, then it is fine by me. 80.56.5.133 (talk) 21:56, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't show it "as a translation", but in any case, you seem to be saying that we have no actual text available (in English) with adequate sources. That's a shame, but it's what is, so I deleted the section. We certainly don't want to suggest that that version is official if it isn't. I thought above you said it was official, when you said it is the official English version. If it isn't we should certainly remove it. Tb (talk) 22:50, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Musical settings

The "Musical Settings" section doesn't specify what it means by that phrase, and so offers no help on the question of whether the cited settings use unique melodies or are just different vocal and instrumental arrangements of one or more melodies. I'm familiar only with the Schubert and Gounod settings and the version commonly sung by U.S. Catholics, and the Gounod uses a different melody. It would help if someone who knows more could clarify in the article the various melodies in use for the Ave Maria, and which of these melodies is used for each of the settings listed. Billfalls (talk) 13:57, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Catholic Church and Hail Mary

The reference of the Roman Catholic Church using the Hail Mary needs to stay at "Catholic Church" to indicate that all the Catholic rites say the Hail Mary instead of just the Roman Rite. It is inaccurate and biased to say that only the Roman Rite says the Hail Mary and the other rites don't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.91.89.192 (talk) 22:40, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Church Slavonic transcription

Here's a transcription of the Church Slavonic graphic, if it can be displayed with a font that works. I used the tone marks for diacritics, but perhaps those should actually be plain accent marks.

Two versions, with and without {{script}}. Both look the same on my Mac (that is, not too bad). —Michael Z. 2011-08-29 19:12 z

Бцⷣе д͠во, ра́дуйсѧ, благода́тнаѧ м͠рі́е, гдⷭ҇ь съ тобо́ю: б͠лгослобе́на ты въ жена́хъ, и б͠лгослове́нъ пло́дъ чре́ва твоегѡ̀, ꙗ҆́ко с͠пса родила̀ є҆сѝ ду́шъ на́шихъ.

Бцⷣе д͠во, ра́дуйсѧ, благода́тнаѧ м͠рі́е, гдⷭ҇ь съ тобо́ю: б͠лгослобе́на ты въ жена́хъ, и б͠лгослове́нъ пло́дъ чре́ва твоегѡ̀, ꙗ҆́ко с͠пса родила̀ є҆сѝ ду́шъ на́шихъ.

Update: changed tone marks to grave and acute accents, which seem to display more reliably in some fonts (i.e., Bukyvede). —Michael Z. 2011-08-29 20:11 z
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hail_Mary&oldid=522188342"