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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 207.237.89.3 (talk) at 19:08, 30 April 2014 (→‎Jewish is not an ethnicity). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Donald Sterling's PR people are hitting this article to try and make him seem nicer watch out —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.189.245.38 (talk) 18:19, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Now, they will have to try harder. -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 19:07, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like there are a lot of unfiltered speculative references being utilized. Thetruthspeaker09 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 08:10, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are going to have to provide more details on what you are referring to.—Bagumba (talk) 08:13, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Date of racist audio recording

WRT "On April 9, 2014, TMZ Sports released an audio conversation recorded by V. Stiviano, Sterling's girlfriend" TMZ reported this on 4/26. The incident allegedly took place on 4/9 but it was reported on 4/26. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.247.50 (talk) 22:46, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Both Conservative and Liberal talking sources are all-atwitter about the tape recordings. Rush Limbaugh says it is false (and pretended) outrage because his racism has been known in Los Angeles and sports circles for a decade. There is nothing 'new' here. [1] [2] -- FYI, Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 19:14, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone know where this tape came from?
California is a two-party state, which means that both (or all) parties on a call must be agree to the recording (or it may be subject to a legal exception, as on a 911 call, or one subject to a warrant), or it can be charged as a criminal offense. My guess is that if the recipient of a call picked up the phone while their message machine was running, and it taped the call, the originator of the call could not complain because they were aware that they were being taped from the start. I imagine that the girl friend taped it and released it after the arrangement faltered . Activist (talk) 19:14, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple blankings of sourced material

There have been multiple recent blankings and changes of name on Sterling's main page without giving any reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.25.191 (talk) 07:31, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

BLP concerns

I have raised this article on the biographies of living persons noticeboard. Thanks. Reaper Eternal (talk) 21:17, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some things are just so obvious and over the top they do not fall into this category. Editing can be succinct and his racism is already noted in the article. Include the most reliable sources. -- AstroU (talk) 04:06, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The importance of the tape is being considered in reliable media sources. Activist is right to ask the question. Other WP editors ask about the illegal taping and its motivation. Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 11:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Article being vandalized tonight

Lock this puppy up, someone's having a field day vandalizing it in the wake of the audio tape of his girlfriend being told "don't bring black people to my games". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.126.239.232 (talk) 08:59, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]


I cosign the need for this page to be locked due to the current (April 2014) controversy. Musicologism (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]


I've placed a request here for the page to be locked. I'm not familiar with the process, so I'm not sure if there's anything else that needs to be done. Patency (talk) 15:34, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this article should be locked due to excessive vandalism. JGKlein 16:35, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 April 2014

SOURCE [1]

(Copyright violation removed.)

99.101.139.45 (talk) 18:16, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: We can't have any copyrighted materials on Wikipedia. Please read WP:COPYVIO. (t) Josve05a (c) 20:38, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wife or girlfriend

The personal life section says he married Shelly Stein in 1957 and they have three children. In the controversies section, it says he has a girlfriend named V. Stiviano. So, is he still married to Shelly Stein and has a girlfriend as well, or is he divorced from his wife or has his wife passed away. Someone really needs to address this confusion.173.216.248.174

This article from ESPN says that he is still married to Shelly Stein as of today (in the passage that's third from the bottom). If I had to speculate, since she will determine who takes over the Clippers when Sterling retires/passes away, it seems like a marriage only in the legal sense. Patency (talk) 23:08, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
LA Times wrote a month ago that they've been married for 50 years, and describes V. Stiviano as an "alleged mistress", although I wouldn't suggest that term in this article (I think it's used here to convey his wife Rochelle's perspective, as filer of the lawsuit; the NY Times described Stiviano more recently as Sterling's "former girlfriend", which seems like a good term). The original TMZ article said "Sterling has been separated from his wife Shelly for years", and other gossip sites seem to agree, though in established news sources don't seem to include that, and they were seen together at a game last week. (Again, according to TMZ, "she remains a key player in running the team...") Agyle (talk) 05:08, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I changed the text from "girlfriend" to "woman" seeing as how it's quite unclear as to what this lady truly is. ShawntheGod (talk) 15:50, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm changing "woman" to "girlfriend or former girlfriend". It's a meaningful omission not to acknowledge what almost all sources say was a significant personal relationship between the two. Sterling, the Clippers, and the NBA are trying to distance her by using the term "woman" in their efforts at damage control, but nobody has contradicted the characterization of girlfriend or former girlfriend. If you really think there's credible doubt over this, I'd add "alleged", to make it "alleged girlfriend or former girlfriend". I'd put more weight on The New York Times at having fact-checked their description of "former girlfriend", but gossip sites and some other newspapers are referring to her as his current girlfriend. Agyle (talk) 18:04, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well the way I see it is that he was probably just an old man using a younger girl for sexual relations, but changing it back to "girlfriend" is fine with me. ShawntheGod (talk) 20:04, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For BLP and general editing purposes, note that, according to Stiviano's lawyer, Stiviano and Sterling "never had a sexual or romantic relationship and that descriptions of her as his mistress in the media and in a lawsuit filed by Sterling's wife are erroneous." Harriet Ryan, "V. Stiviano was not Donald Sterling's mistress, her lawyer says", Los Angeles Times, April 30, 2014. --Arxiloxos (talk) 15:54, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

ADL and SPLC

Where are they? If Sterling was White the first line of his WP page would say: Sterling is a white supremacist! That clearly shows the bias of Wikipedia...!--109.23.159.201 (talk) 19:06, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Based on your brief edit history, I'd say you're more than a little preoccupied with the issue of race. 209.90.140.72 (talk) 00:20, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"if sterling was white"

Sterling is white though, unless you're one of those white supremacist-nationalist types who don't consider Jews to be white, then whatever. There is also a whole section devoted to his purported racism by the way. ShawntheGod (talk) 20:05, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean if Sterling was white. Do you have a RS stating that he is not white?173.216.248.174 (talk) 20:57, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jews are not white. We are descended from the Israelites, who are Semites. Also compare Stop Islamization of America with Electronic Intifada for example of Wikipedia's anti-Jewish bias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.140.31 (talk) 09:05, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Look I really don't care about Jews and 'whiteness', the term "white" is just an unscientific term created by racist European imperialists. It has no validity, it's entirely based upon perception, with some social connotations behind it. Some consider certain Jews to be white, some don't. Phenotypically Donald Sterling appears to be "white" and I see nothing in the article that even calls him "white" though. ShawntheGod (talk) 02:22, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Baron Davis heckling

Mention of it was removed from the controversy section. Ideally, controversy sections should be reorganzied altogether per WP:CSECTION. In the meantime, I'm noting the Davis heckling here, as I've seen it mentioned enough in sources that it is WP:DUE weight to add back somewhere and WP:PRESERVE the original text.—Bagumba (talk) 17:46, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So he called a player out for not hustling and being out of shape? There is a weight concern here, and its not the players center of gravity. Two kinds of pork (talk) 18:19, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If the media singles it out repeatedly, then its due weight. Understand your concern, and I woudnt want it added either unless the weight of sources support it. I'll see if I get to it.—Bagumba (talk) 20:53, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Here is coverage in 2010 when the story first broke, more in 2012, and this from recent uproar that references the Davis incident. This is more than a trivial event that was just mentioned once and forgotten about.—Bagumba (talk) 21:53, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, that's better though it should be rolled into the Clippers section, somewhere in the chronological order. In fact the controversy title should go completely and have each section stand on its own, but that's only a suggestion.Two kinds of pork (talk) 22:17, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

TMZ liability for publishing illegal recording ?

i'm not sure where the tape came from, but here it looks like TMZ published a secret tape by the girl friend that might be illegal under California law. what is the responsibility of the media here? thanks.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-recording-law


— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.108.8 (talk) 08:58, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Be careful with original research here. Lets wait for reliable sources to talk about explicitly in relation to Sterling before adding anything to the article.—Bagumba (talk) 09:30, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here's what wikipedia says about the relevant law

Telephone recording laws

Twelve states currently require that all parties consent to the recording: California,[2]

The California Supreme Court has ruled that if a caller in a one-party state records a conversation with someone in California, that one-party state caller is subject to the stricter of the laws and must have consent from all callers (Cf. Kearney v. Salomon Smith Barney Inc., 39 Cal. 4th 95 (2006)[3]

QbR54190dfcv (talk) 19:21, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

According to TMZ Sports, the woman making the recordings "told friends the Clippers owner WANTED her to record him and he knew he was being recorded ... partly because he frequently forgot what he said and the tapes refreshed his memory" at http://www.tmz.com/2014/04/28/donald-sterling-v-stiviano-settlement-conversation-book-deal-life-clippers-audio-recordings/
-- Avanu (talk) 19:29, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It is important to understand what these laws say: They require consent from the speaking parties in order to allow the recording to be submitted as evidence in a court of law. They are not requirements simply in order to permit recording. Recording a conversation without satisfying these requirements is not illegal. It simply means that the recording cannot be submitted as evidence. Sean Ross207.237.89.3 (talk) 20:36, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish is not an ethnicity

Judaism IS a religion and it definitely isn't a race like some have suggested. There are Jews of ALL races the world over.

Judaism HAS distinct ethnic groups in itself, but that does not make the entire group an ethnicity. Ashkenazic (German or Eastern European), Sephardic (Spain and Portugal), Mizrahim (Middle Eastern, North African) and smaller subgroups exist.

These include: Indian Jews (Bene Israel), Romaniotes (Greece), Italian and Chinese Jews. The customs are different, so are the base languages as a whole etc..

The reason people make these distinctions is for one of two reasons 1) Antisemitism (easier to hate people who are separate from you) 2) To make claims that one can be Jewish while being a Christian — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leatgrinberg (talk • contribs) 16:30, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There are Jewish ethnic divisions. Donald is probably an Ashkenazi Jew, I think that the article should be more specific though. ShawntheGod (talk) 19:56, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I would vote for that field being kept blank. That he's Jewish can be put in the Religion field (assuming there's evidence he's a practicing Jew). Moncrief (talk) 04:29, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jews are an ethnicity. Please don't post ignorant comments denying we are. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.140.31 (talk) 09:06, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish ethnicity and identity is itself a complex and often fraught subject that could fill bookshelves. In any case the article only states that Sterling is the child of "Jewish immigrants", a statement that is not in dispute. Since this article is a biographical summary or synopsis of Sterling's life and business career and not solely about his history of discrimination and recent racist comments, I would like to see this article state what country his parents immigrated from and what language was spoken in the home he grew up in. -lsiden

Why are you curious about what language was spoken in his home? (just asking) Allen Roth 207.237.89.3 (talk) 19:08, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Death

This proves the former L.A. Clippers owner just died. 198.228.216.157 (talk) 17:15, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I rolled back your edit here earlier because your comment is in violation of WP:BLP and is not from a reliable source. Yahoo Answers is NOT at all a "reliable secondary source" per Wikipedia standards. Since you chose to re-add this comment, I would ask you now to voluntarily strike it out, and take a few moments to read the policies I referenced within this comment. -- Avanu (talk) 17:33, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't state Yahoo Answers at all. If it's something like Facebook, that's different. 198.228.216.157 (talk) 17:36, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Racial integration and Social integration are closely related to the current issue, and could use some work.--Pharos (talk) 18:35, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/clippers-owner-donald-sterling-caught-on-tape-telling-his-girlfriend-to-not-bring-african-americans-to--my-games-064539618.html?soc_src=copy
  2. ^ California Penal Code Section 632(a)
  3. ^ California courts document on Kearney v. Salomon Smith Barney, Inc.
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