Wikipedia:Featured article candidates

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This star, with one point broken, indicates that an article is a candidate on this page. Here, we determine which articles are to be featured articles (FAs). FAs exemplify Wikipedia's very best work and satisfy the FA criteria. All editors are welcome to review nominations; please see the review FAQ. Before nominating an article, nominators may wish to receive feedback by listing it at Peer review and adding the review to the FAC peer review sidebar. Editors considering their first nomination, and any subsequent nomination before their first FA promotion, are strongly advised to seek the involvement of a mentor, to assist in the preparation and processing of the nomination. Nominators must be sufficiently familiar with the subject matter and sources to deal with objections during the featured article candidates (FAC) process. Nominators who are not significant contributors to the article should consult regular editors of the article before nominating it. Nominators are expected to respond positively to constructive criticism and to make efforts to address objections promptly. An article should not be on Featured article candidates and Peer review or Good article nominations at the same time. The FAC coordinators—Ian Rose, Gog the Mild, David Fuchs and FrB.TG—determine the timing of the process for each nomination. For a nomination to be promoted to FA status, consensus must be reached that it meets the criteria. Consensus is built among reviewers and nominators; the coordinators determine whether there is consensus. A nomination will be removed from the list and archived if, in the judgment of the coordinators: actionable objections have not been resolved; consensus for promotion has not been reached; insufficient information has been provided by reviewers to judge whether the criteria have been met; or a nomination is unprepared. It is assumed that all nominations have good qualities; this is why the main thrust of the process is to generate and resolve critical comments in relation to the criteria, and why such resolution is given considerably more weight than declarations of support. Do not use graphics or complex templates on FAC nomination pages. Graphics such as  Done and  Not done slow down the page load time, and complex templates can lead to errors in the FAC archives. For technical reasons, templates that are acceptable are {{collapse top}} and {{collapse bottom}}, used to hide offtopic discussions, and templates such as {{green}} that apply colours to text and are used to highlight examples without altering fonts. Other templates such as {{done}}, {{not done}}, {{tq}}, {{tq2}}, and {{xt}}, may be removed. An editor is allowed to be the sole nominator of only one article at a time, but two nominations are allowed if the editor is a co-nominator on at least one of them. If a nomination is archived, the nominator(s) should take adequate time to work on resolving issues before re-nominating. None of the nominators may nominate or co-nominate any article for two weeks unless given leave to do so by a coordinator; if such an article is nominated without asking for leave, a coordinator will decide whether to remove it. A coordinator may exempt from this restriction an archived nomination that attracted no (or minimal) feedback. Nominations in urgent need of review are listed here. To contact the FAC coordinators, please leave a message on the FAC talk page, or use the {{@FAC}} notification template elsewhere. A bot will update the article talk page after the article is promoted or the nomination archived; the delay in bot processing can range from minutes to several days, and the {{FAC}} template should remain on the talk page until the bot updates {{Article history}}. Table of Contents – This page:

Featured content: Featured articles ← Featured lists Featured pictures Featured topics Featured article candidates (FAC) Featured article criteria Featured article log Featured article statistics Featured article review (FAR) Former featured articles Unreviewed featured articles/2020 Today's featured article (TFA): This month's queue About Today's featured article Recent TFAs and statistics Current TFA requests Potential TFA requests TFA oddities Most viewed TFAs Featured articles yet to appear as TFA Script to track TFA recent changes Featured article tools: Mentoring for FAC Nominators of featured articles promoted Recent changes to featured articles Random featured article

Nominating How to nominate an article Nomination procedure Before nominating an article, ensure that it meets all of the FA criteria and that peer reviews are closed and archived. Place {{subst:FAC}} at the top of the talk page of the nominated article and save the page. From the FAC template, click on the red "initiate the nomination" link or the blue "leave comments" link. You will see pre-loaded information; leave that text. If you are unsure how to complete a nomination, please post to the FAC talk page for assistance. Below the preloaded title, complete the nomination page, sign with ~~~~, and save the page. Copy this text: {{Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/name of nominated article/archiveNumber}} (substituting Number), and edit this page (i.e., the page you are reading at the moment), pasting the template at the top of the list of candidates. Replace "name of ..." with the name of your nomination. This will transclude the nomination into this page. In the event that the title of the nomination page differs from this format, use the page's title instead. Commenting, etc Commenting, supporting and opposing Supporting and opposing To respond to a nomination, click the "Edit" link to the right of the article nomination (not the "Edit this page" link for the whole FAC page). All editors are welcome to review nominations; see the review FAQ for an overview of the review process. To support a nomination, write *'''Support''', followed by your reason(s), which should be based on a full reading of the text. If you have been a significant contributor to the article before its nomination, please indicate this. A reviewer who specializes in certain areas of the FA criteria should indicate whether the support is applicable to all of the criteria. To oppose a nomination, write *'''Object''' or *'''Oppose''', followed by your reason(s). Each objection must provide a specific rationale that can be addressed. If nothing can be done in principle to address the objection, a coordinator may disregard it. References on style and grammar do not always agree; if a contributor cites support for a certain style in a standard reference work or other authoritative source, reviewers should consider accepting it. Reviewers who object are strongly encouraged to return after a few days to check whether their objection has been addressed. To withdraw the objection, strike it out (with <s> ... </s>) rather than removing it. Alternatively, reviewers may transfer lengthy, resolved commentary to the FAC archive talk page, leaving a link in a note on the FAC archive. To provide constructive input on a nomination without specifically supporting or objecting, write *'''Comment''' followed by your advice. For ease of editing, a reviewer who enters lengthy commentary may create a neutral fourth-level subsection, named either ==== Review by EditorX ==== or ==== Comments by EditorX ==== (do not use third-level or higher section headers). Please do not create subsections for short statements of support or opposition—for these a simple *'''Support''',*'''Oppose''', or *'''Comment''' followed by your statement of opinion, is sufficient. Please do not use a semicolon to bold a subheading; this creates accessibility problems. If a nominator feels that an Oppose has been addressed, they should say so, either after the reviewer's signature, or by interspersing their responses in the list provided by the reviewer. Per talk page guidelines, nominators should not cap, alter, strike, or add graphics to comments from other editors. If a nominator finds that an opposing reviewer is not returning to the nomination page to revisit improvements, this should be noted on the nomination page, with a diff to the reviewer's talk page showing the request to reconsider.

Add new nominations on top, one section per nomination.

Nominated articles

Venus (planet)

Good intro; lots of good info and images. --P3d0 16:15, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

• Object for now. The external links that served as references need to go to a references section, along with any print refs that were used. Also, could the Recent flybys and Future missions subsections be merged? They're both very short. Filiocht 16:22, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

Light

No particular reason for nominating this. I just randomly came to the page and thought, "Why not?". (Note - this was nominated by an anon →Raul654 19:34, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC))

• Object for now - insufficient lead, too many short sections, too many lists that could be turned into prose, infelicitous placement of images, and generally more that could be said. On the other hand, a good start. I'll help it if/when I have time (it would be a nice complement to speed of light). -- ALoan (Talk) 13:54, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

High jump

"partial self-nom". i added to history, others helped with pictures and captioning, while others copy-edited, right down to the last umlauts. 128.8.222.44 22:36, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)(srf)

• Object. Needs an expanded lead section. Some dodgy language too - "obtaining the most economical clearance to date." What does that mean? Also seems a little short to be truly comprehensive, but I personally don't know much else that is not covered. - Taxman 00:14, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
• Object. 1) History is incomplete, mostly focussed on male high jumping and has several big gaps. It jumps from ancient Greeks to the 19th century, for example. It also seems highly US-biased, and mentions jumpers like Amy Acuff, while more accomplished jumpers are left out. Only Olympics and world records seem to be mentioned, but what about other international championships, notably the World Championships? It also fails to mention, f.e. when the event was introduced at the Olympics. 2) A section is needed on the various high jumping techniques, including illustrations (or a video?) of how a Fosbury flop jump works. Also, there should be more about how to jump. What equipment is used (shoes?), how does an athlete train for high jumping. If nothing specific can be said about that, mention that. 3) A lead section is needed. 4) Kostadinova's picture is uncredited. 5) A discussion of the physics of high jumping is also required. The reason why the flop works is because the centre of gravity has to travel as little as possible. This is also why people with long legs (a high centre of gravity) tend to jump higher in general. 6) The references are incomplete, and although I don't own these books, it seems like not all parts of the article originate from these sources, notably the "Procedures and rules". 7) The "Current status" section should be merged with history. 8) "which would likely have broken his neck in the old sawdust landing pits" - what old sawdust landing pits? We never heard about those. 9) The article should decide on it style. It currently mixes US and UK. We have some heights only in feet, others in both (which is as it should be), others only in centimeters. Also we have both track and field and athletics. Pick one style and stick with it. Jeronimo 07:28, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Object with nothing to add to Jeronimo's remarks above. Filiocht 12:24, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

Neil Young

No, he's not as important as Elvis or Dylan, but I think its a pretty comprehensive article. Self nomination -- I wrote nearly all of this, modulo some copy editing. --- GWO 16:18, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Support. Lots of blank links though.--Crestville 18:54, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Good stuff, but the one and two sentence paragraphs need to be fixed. The lead section could stand to be expanded. The discographies would also look better in a separate list article that is linked in this one. - Taxman 00:28, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
• Support, but tepidly. The redlinks are no big deal. The linking of redneck bugs me more, especially since "Sweet Home, Alabama" is not, likely, a response to "Southern Man," but to (big surprise) "Alabama," from "Harvest," with which it actually shares chords (i.e. Lynyrd Skynyrd was not only taunting him lyrically, but saying, "This is how you play guitar"). At any rate, there is still a bit of immaturity to the article, still too much of a narrow POV (e.g. the lead jumps into the types of songs he's known for, but it's probably better to say, "Neil Young is a rock and folk musician regarded as one of the most important figures of the 1960's through 1990's" -- something a bit more global than getting to what songs he's loved for). Nitzche is a controversial figure in his own right. He got to be so much The Man that he began shoving his approach down a lot of throats, and it's arguable whether he did good or ill by Neil (yes, Neil liked him). Anyway, these are quibbles. It's of FA quality with a bit of copy editing now. Geogre 03:11, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

  WRT Southern Man / Alabama. The same chords, well you can't read too much into that. The chords to SHA are D/C/G, with a shuffle 6th in each bar. I could real off 30 songs with that chord progression without breaking sweat. (Actually, if this [1] is to be believed, the chords are distinctly not the same). Southern Man, however, is mentioned explicitly in the lyrics. I'll get on the copy editing (the lead section was one of the few bits that weren't mine :)) -- GWO 08:37, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Actually, SWA isn't just DCG (which is the old I-IV-V, which is every rock song ever), but a particular formation of the C and G that are the same as "Alabama" and "Ziggy Stardust" and a few others of that time but which are not used very commonly. Young liked that C formation (to tab it, it would be 3/5, 2/4, 0/3, 3/2, 3/1), and you almost never see it anywhere else in LS's stuff (although the Gsus is used plenty of places, part. in "Freebird"). Lyrically, they refer to "Southern Man," of course, but the title invokes "Alabama," which is a song that is even less deft in its criticism. I also think that "redneck" absolutely shouldn't be part of the reference. That's POV. The struggle over Civil Rights reflected in the song battle was the Dixiecrat stuff. Wallace and Maddux were ignoramuses, but it's irresponsible and inflammatory to refer to the entire southern Democratic party (which was anti-Civil Rights act) that way. We saw the fruits of that kind of name calling just recently. Geogre 17:26, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well, I can't speak for how common x32033 is LS's work but its ubiquitous in folk music, (Cos of the easy fingering to the full G). And anyway that's not what's tabbed here, [2] or how I was taught to play it. And I don't think its in Alabama either. Compromise : mention that it has relevance to multiple Young songs. -- GWO

• Support, as it's an excellent article, but I'll consider changing to object if Geogre's points aren't fixed up. Ambi 07:27, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Object. The lead section is inadequate, there is no explicit references section (were all those books and links used?) and there is a bit too much of the "fan" to the writing. For instance, I fail to see how a sentence like: 'During the late 1970s, Young was sometime referred to as a "disciple" of the "master" Bob Dylan and seemed on the verge of surpassing the legend.' can be seen as anything other than POV, not to mention confusing for the imaginary reader who is here because they want to learn about a subject they currently know little or nothing of. Who did the referring? Why would Dylan be the "master"? Which "legend"? On what basis is the claim that he 'seemed' to be surpassing Dylan made? Why all the "ironic" uses of ""? There are more statements that raise similar questions, but this is the most blatant. Filiocht 08:51, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
• Object, I agree with Filiocht that there is too much "fan" writing. Also, I'm not a big fan of the strictly chronological layout; I'd like to see some separate and more in-depth sections on e.g. his person and his music in general (including more detailed critique). The main problematic aspect of a chronological layout is that it is much harder to find information in the article unless you have knowledge about the subject in advance -- a much more comprehensive lead section might also solve the problem. Some recent photo would be nice too (there must be some fan somewhere who has taken one who'd be willing to release it under the GFDL). Finally, Neil Young might not be as important as Elvis or Dylan, but he makes better music ;) - Fredrik | talk 01:57, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hydrogen

Thorough coverage of the subject; perhaps the best of the element articles. +sj+ 10:48, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Object - the section on isotopes is a bit thin; there is nothing about cold fusion. Also little astronomy: nothing about deuterium as a constraint on models of nucleosynthesis in the early universe; stars and gas are mentioned, but there is more to say about hydrogen gas in galaxies (for example, ionised HII regions, neutral atomic hydrogen emitting 21cm radiation, star-formation in regions of molecular H₂, traced by CO emission) or planets (such as Jupiter); what about spectral lines, like the Lyman series or the Balmer series. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:05, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

John Dee

Not a self nom, although I made a small edit just now. Well made page on an interesting person. Go read. Filiocht 08:35, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)

• Support. Very interesting subject well written, most people know the name but few facts, so this fills a valuable void. One minor quibble (which doesn't affect my support) could one or two of the many "Dee" mentions be changed to "He" or "His", as it is a little repetitious In "Final Years" alone - there are six "Dees" in 5 lines.Giano 09:02, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have attempted to address this observation. Filiocht 09:17, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)

• Support. He's a taff and a mathematician. Why have I never heard of him? -- GWO 09:22, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|^(talk)]] 10:44, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)
• Support, interesting and well-written article with all the trimmings.--Bishonen 11:24, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• I want to support, but is it comprehensive enough? I am not a Dee scholar, but I looked here (which is not referenced - I'm not sure how far I can trust it, since it claims that Dee coined the word Britannia and founded the Rosicrucian Order) which claims that Dee sold the Voynich Manuscript to Rudolph II (I'm sure I have heard this claimed elsewhere, so not so potty). There also seem to be more (and more believeable) details of his life here, here and here that could be included, and these websites are not given as External Links either. I won't refer to the more "esoteric" websites... I'm not objecting, but just asking whether further information should be added. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:49, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I suppose it would always be possible to expand any Wikipedia biography almost indefinitely, but some selection has to be made or we'd end up with 800 page books. My own view is that there is enough there now, but I'd like the view of the major contributor and anyopne else who is interested. Filiocht 13:58, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)

Indeed - that is why I was not objecting. The article is good, but should it be better? -- ALoan (Talk) 14:07, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I do appreciate the attention that's being given this article. This is the level of detail I imagined Dee's significance would merit, but if there's a general feeling that more detail is needed I can certainly expand the article. I did consciously try to give more space to Dee's non-scrying life than a lot of sources do. Dee seems to have been claimed by every esoteric and occult group around, so there's lots of biographical misinformation out there. The connection with the Voynich manuscript rests on some very flimsy assumptions, but that's the context that most people have heard of Dee in, so I'll add a mention of it now. (When the system stops being so agonizingly slow!) PRIIS 15:34, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I just added information on the Voynich Ms and an external link on the same topic. PRIIS 18:05, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks - have you had a chance to look at the other references, which all looked pretty "normal" and useful, with some information that I couldn't immediately see in out article. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:52, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes, this one from St. Andrew's is good. This one not so much--anything with Necronomicon in it, you are encouraged to dismiss with a snort. This third one is in between but still pretty romanticized. I'll add the first to the external links. PRIIS 20:22, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Support - as said before, my points above were not objections, just questioning whether the articles was comprehensive. On the basis that they appear to be dealt with, I'll support. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:37, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support: Dee has been a favorite figure for every tinfoil hat group since 1700. He has been more maligned and used than Jacques de Molay. Every Satanist would-be, every "secret history," every "revelations of secret power" group in the world sooner or later claims something about Dee. As for his link to the Rosicrucians, it's possible, though he's hardly the originator. The Rosicrucian "cult" in England has two very, very brief lives. One is around the time of Dee, the other in the 1680's, but they never did do much or mean much. All "secret history" is unverifiable. I would suggest that the article make it a little clearer that Dee is a popular figure for outlandish speculation. Geogre 18:58, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Oh, agreed, but then should the article not then summarise and refute or debunk some of these claims? -- ALoan (Talk) 19:52, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I've added a refutation to these sorts of claims in the "Reputation" section. I'd say it's more "blanket" than "point-by-point." PRIIS 22:15, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Wise. The only gripe I had was that you probably needed a bit more of a pointing hand and a blinking arrow to say loudly, "He wasn't a Satanist!" Point by point is impossible, because every schemer has his own point, and we ought not be in the business of validating them by repeating their fantasies. As a side note, I believe Dee features as one of the alleged links in the fake scheme in Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum. Geogre 03:14, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

BTW, excellent new paragraph about hermeticism and Pythagorean philosophy in the 16th c. world. If any outsider reads it with reason and an open mind, he or she will get a good understanding of why the nuts like him, and why it's nuts to like him that way. Geogre 04:39, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Support. Thorough and readable. Smerdis of Tlön 02:48, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

InuYasha

Not really a self-nom even though I have contributed to this page. The end result of many, many hours of tireless work by people with nothing better to do. If successful, this may be the first anime FA (although I can't swear to to that). -Litefantastic 21:29, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Object. (1) The lead section should explain why it is notable/interesting/significant. (2) There's a lot about plot and character, nothing about artistic style. (3) Put the most important stuff first. Spelling of the title is trivia and belongs lower down. (4) Lead picture is tilted; can you rotate it back upright? (5) There's a great deal of information likely to only be of interest to fans (lists of characters and their relationships), but not much for the general reader of the encyclopedia. What is it about? Is it just an exotic romance? What is the secret of its popularity? Does it have anything to say about the human condition? What sources does it draw on? Does it make significant use of Japanese history, fiction, folklore or legend? Does it draw on other manga/anime? How does it compare to Takahashi's other work? (At the moment Wikipedia has very few featured articles on works of literature or media. See A Tale of a Tub and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, two featured literature articles, for what is required.) Gdr 01:26, 2004 Nov 3 (UTC)

1. I agree that it would be good for the article to explain why InuYasha is interesting, but I think there is an important reason why it does not—most likely, such a section would be quite subjective. One of my favorite things about the series is that its characters are very sympathetic and varied. However, other people may have different preferences.
2. Probably the reason the article does not discuss artistic style is either because it's difficult to describe or because it is not notable.
3. I agree on this, and plan to move that section.
4. Good idea, I will see what I can do in Photoshop.
5. The "Overview" section covers some of this, but I think you are right that it could use some more information on the topics you suggested. (Although many of them, such as "the secret of its popularity" would also have to be rather subjective, though it is probably possible to make some general statements.)

[[User:JoshG|Josh | Talk]] 02:16, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)

Okay. I tried to fix some of the problems that you mentioned. If anyone has any other improvements, though, feel free to make them. [[User:JoshG|Josh | Talk]] 05:14, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)

You can explain why it is notable/interesting/popular while remaining objective by attributing opinions to notable reviewers, critics and enthusiasts, preferably by quoting them. The same goes for artistic style. Gdr 10:36, 2004 Nov 3 (UTC)

Further objections. (6) The ASCII art diagram is horrible; please make a proper diagram. (7) The U.S. and Japanese logos should be adjacent for comparison. (8) The picture of a purple circle contributes nothing. Is it even from the anime? Gdr 11:14, 2004 Nov 4 (UTC)

(6.) You may be right that an image diagram would be better, and I think that one should be made, but remember that someone made the ASCII diagram that is there now. I did not make it, but please don't call anyone's work 'horrible'. (7.) You're probably right, and in fact, I uploaded such an image a while ago. Right now, though it's only used in the character navigation template. I was going to replace the one that is there now with that, but I had kind of forgotten about it. I'll do that now. [[User:JoshG|Josh | Talk]] 23:23, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

OK. I made a little graphical timeline. Comments? [[User:JoshG|Josh | Talk]] 05:55, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)

Objection #8: The picture is supposed to be the Shikon no Tama, Jewel of Four Souls, which is the ultimate goal in the collect the pieces plot aspect of the show. It isn't actually from the show; one of the people here drew it. And I wouldn't say it contributes nothing; it's actually a pretty good picture. -Litefantastic 12:19, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It might mean something to fans, but to me it's just a purple circle with radial shading: a minute's work in Photoshop. Gdr 12:47, 2004 Nov 4 (UTC)

I am disappointed that you do not think my jewel picture is complex enough. I know it's just a circle with a radial gradient, but I thought that it looked pretty similar to the jewel in the anime series. Improvement is always a good thing, though. Would it be better if I drew in a necklace around it? Or do you just think that there should not be a picture of the jewel in the main article? [[User:JoshG|Josh | Talk]] 23:23, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

• Object. "InuYasha Characters Relationship Guide" is severly misleading. For example, Jaken is supposedly hated by Sesshomaru. In truth, Jaken is quite trusted by Sesshomaru especially when one considers that Sesshomaru rarely cares to keep anyone around. Jaken's occasional rumbling about how he doesn't like to be around Sesshomaru is on par with that by C3PO claiming how he isn't supposed to be stuck in a battlefield.
  • You're right about that. In fact, it has been discussed on the talk page before, but no one has actually done anything about it yet. [[User:JoshG|Josh | Talk]] 04:15, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)
    • I have a beta-version that's almost finished. I'm not sure it'll be any better, but we can see. -Litefantastic 13:07, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC) Just decided my version isn't much better than the original. I'll just take it down for now. -Litefantastic 12:20, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • What about some kind of table? Would that be any better? (I removed the old relationship guide from the page.) [[User:JoshG|Josh | Talk]] 23:23, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
• On Gdr asking about how InuYasha makes use of Japanese history, fiction, etc., is I think impossible to write becoming too long and complex. It would be quite an article by itself on how a love relationship between a Yokai and a human is possible from historical or religious point of views. To be more specific, it would start from a Chinese classic of "封神演戯" (there is no article yet) supposedly about fictious battles involving man and Chinese gods in 11th BC that led to Zhou Dynasty, touching on Shinto, Buddhism, magic in general, spirits, modern Japanese culture, etc., or about three millenium worth of informations. Revth 04:07, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Nonsense. When it gets too long, use Wikipedia:Summary style. Gdr 10:36, 2004 Nov 3 (UTC)
• Object. Too many bullet point lists, the lead section does not cover enough of the content and there are no explicit references given. Filiocht 09:41, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)
  • What do you want? -Litefantastic 12:20, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • 1) A lead section that is a summary of the article, not a definition followed by a single sentence, most of which, as an English-speaking reader of an English encyclopaedia I cannot read. 2) A reference section. 3) Prose in place of lists (and maybe some of the lists to move to sub articles). 4) World peace. Filiocht 12:54, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
• Object - it's 80% list. →Raul654 13:23, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

A Hard Day's Night (song)

Self-nom. This was one of the runner-ups in Danny's contest. Johnleemk | Talk 14:50, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Support. --mike40033 05:01, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support, although I'd like to see the [square brackets] changed to (standard ones). Filiocht 09:51, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)
• Support, as always. Ambi 07:31, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Behavioral finance

Partial self-nom - I added to pgreenfinch's original behavioural finance page. I think it's a good and well referenced article on a fairly interesting subset of finance/economics. But I might be biased :) Psychobabble

• Support - yeh its interesting AlbinoMonkey 12:38, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Object for now. Wiki needs definetly much more work on economic subjects and I am happy to see activity in this field, but this article is far from ready from featured status. Did you notice there are two 'Criticisms' sections?? I fixed various minor problems, but this needs more interlinks and expansion, especially where there are lists like 'Behavioral economics topics' or 'Key Figures'. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:16, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The outline of the article is split between behavioral finance and behavioral economics, the two criticism sections are specific to each of those sub-sections. I realise more needs to be done in the sub-topics, I wasn't sure if that was a criterion for having the main page (which is a broad outline of the field) featured. A lot of that stuff I'll fill in when I finish exams. Psychobabble

• Comment on the picture: The only picture is a picture of Daniel Kahneman. The picture had no source/license information, but I've added a probable source and assumed the picture is fair use. Because of that I don't think we should use the picture in the article -- unless I'm mistaken about the license -- because I don't think we should use it as fair use outside Daniel Kahneman. ✏ Sverdrup 23:17, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't know much about this sort of stuff. I assumed if it was OK for the Kahnenman wikipedia articke, it was OK for this one.Psychobabble

Dystopia

Clear, to the point, and I like it. Ivan 03:41, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Object. Most of the article is a bullet-point list. Turn into prose, please.--Eloquence*

• Object as well. There should be at least a history section out of this topic. Revth 14:33, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Object: too many lists and too little history. Literary examples need to go back at leas as far as Dante and the music should not start in the 1970s (Janacek for starters). Some discussion of the Romantic period would not go astray, plus some discussion of Plato's Republic as a dystopian text and on, and on. Filiocht 15:03, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
• Object. When lists are longer then the actual article we have a problem. Good start, long way from feature status. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:28, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Object. It's a collection of lists with no real content. Zerbey 23:16, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Battle of the Somme (1916)

Absolutely effing brilliant. What else can I say? Johnleemk | Talk 15:44, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object. Support. (1) Some of the casualty figures (especially those in the infobox and the "Casualties" section, and the figures for the Germans) need to provide a breakdown into killed, wounded, POW, missing (or at least an estimate). (2) The claim about the first day on the Somme being the bloodiest day in British history is doubtful (estimates for the battle of Towton suggest 20,000–28,000 dead); maybe the claim could be qualified. (3) There ought to be a mention of the cultural response to the Somme. Siegfried Sassoon, Ivor Gurney, Robert Graves and other war poets were at the battle and left powerful accounts. Was there a corresponding German response? Gdr 21:09, 2004 Oct 31 (UTC) P.S. Otherwise, great article!
  • Storm of Steel by Ernst Junger is the best known personal German account of the battle. Geoff/Gsl 21:20, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Re: "bloodiest day", I've qualifyed it as the "bloodiest day in the history of the British Army" which is how it is usually described. I obviously got a bit carried away in the translation... Geoff/Gsl 23:32, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support but I wonder if the total number of men who fought the battle could be listed. Revth 14:56, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support, but the British army casualty breakdown misses some 1300 soldiers. Jeronimo 15:34, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • The exact British & French casualty figures are from Edmonds official history (widely quoted in other books) but I don't have the breakdown he used. I know the Australian and New Zealand tolls and the approx. Canadian. The South African is a guess given that they lost 2000 at Delville Wood. What's left I assume to be British/Irish. A more reliable casualty list would be good but I've exhausted my resources. Geoff/Gsl 23:11, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • OK, maybe you can just add "others" (probably some Indians were involved as well?) to make the table add up. Jeronimo 07:59, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Support, but I'd like to see something on the cultural impact, too. As well as the writers listed above, David Jones' great Modernist poem In Parenthesis gives a participant's view of the battle for Mametz Wood (he was wounded there). Filiocht 15:47, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

Robert Walpole

-- Emsworth 19:00, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object: Atterbury's trial and exile had nothing to do with the South Sea Bubble. It was tied in with the Report of the White Staff that had indicted St. John and Harley. That has to be addressed as factually incorrect. I have other suggestions, but those are on the Talk page of the article. Since all the folks I study are enemies of Walpole, I cannot help but have absorbed their points of view. The matters on the talk page don't have to be addressed, but the Atterbury implication that the Bubble was going to be exploited by Jacobites does. The Jacobites were just as unprepared for the bubble as the dissenters. Geogre 01:50, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • The Atterbury objection has been addressed, as have some of the others which I happen to agree with. -- Emsworth 02:53, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Objection withdrawn, though I still regard him as a dirty rat. Geogre 14:59, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Of course, that does not disqualify his article... -- Emsworth 17:44, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Zerbey 23:17, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support -- there were some odd spellings, like "reëlection", and apparently one guy was a "statement" (not a "statesman")... but those can be forgiven -_-. ugen64 23:19, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support. James F. (talk) 10:48, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Dirty rat? England has never had a Prime Minister who so closely resembled a big basket full of lovley kittens. Take THAT scum.--Crestville 20:30, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Kangaroo

I think its rather good. ZayZayEM 01:27, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Minor Objection. 1)The references only cover a small part of the information in the article. 2)Some of the units are not wiki linked. 3) The first image has no copyright tag. Martyman 01:46, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Overly short - more could be written on the topic, I'm sure. Ambi 02:13, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

There is more information about each species in seperate articles. Though, mention of the numerous car accidents they cause would be good. Martyman 02:17, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support. Revth 09:08, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Kangaroos are commonly depicted as are great boxers, particularly in cartoons. Is that something worthy of mention? A little non-serious, I know. violet/riga (t) 09:28, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Cultural references would be one section that wouldn't be bad here. Ambi 11:22, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Yeah I am sort of leaning back a bit for not enough content. I have some details on kangaroo fighting I'll add. (vs dogs, humans and apparently drowning hawks...)--ZayZayEM 14:19, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Not even close. Now substantially improved (after a heavy-duty copyedit) but a long long way from featured article status. Tannin 23:22, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Lottie Dod

Self-nomination. Jeronimo 15:38, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• SupportZayZayEM 01:32, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support: An external web link would be a good addition. Geogre 02:22, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I know, but I haven't been able to find much more than the meagre bio currently listed under references. I'll keep on searching. Jeronimo 11:19, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Possibly on a "Women athletes of the century" kind of thing (ESPN did one of those)? I am not really a see-also person, but a Wimbleton history or women in sports see-also or external link would at least be something, even if not specific to Dod. Geogre 15:55, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I added an external and an internal "see also" link. Jeronimo 11:10, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Object, too short. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (hopefully!)]] 22:28, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
  • That is not a valid objection in itself, unless you can qualify it. Being short is not a bad thing, being incomplete is. Are there any issues/subtopics you can mention that are not (sufficiently) dealt with by the article? If not, I'll regard this objection as unactionable. Jeronimo 07:57, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Seems very complete as it is. Filiocht 14:27, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)

Soda can stove

Spare and sweet. Colorful 3-D rendering leaves nothing to the imagination. Top link in the references shows you exactly how to make one. +sj+ 00:09, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Minor objction. How did it came to be called "Pepsi can stove"? Why wasn't it called simply "soda can stove"? Revth 02:28, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • The requested article link was "Pepsi can stove", i didn't think about a better name but maybe should have. FWIW Google shows 1130 hits for "Pepsi can stove" (with quotes) and 594 for "soda can stove". Duk 03:00, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Yup, I checked myself and "Pepsi can stove" is the popular name and couldn't find out why that name stuck. It's most likely that no one knows. Support. Revth 15:22, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support Would still like to see some more depth in some areas, but I am not sure the information is out there to find. Martyman 21:46, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC) Objection1) There is no mention of the commercially available stoves that are almost identical in design such as the Trangia. 2) Was the Pepsi stove a copy of the commercial designs, and when was it invented/adapted. Martyman 03:07, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Good article, but far too short to be featured. Ambi 10:39, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Disagree with the objection (i) No subject is unfit for featured status. If the article's short because there's not much of interest to be said, then so bit it. It can still be a good short article. (ii) Reason is not in itself actionable. jguk 13:39, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I didn't say the subject was unfit for featured status. It is. The article, however, is just simply not detailed enough to be a featured article. If this were accepted as present, it would be by far the shortest featured article we have. With that in mind, I believe it's an entirely fair objection, and one that should be actionable. Ambi 13:53, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Say what it's missing. That's actionable. Just saying it's short, isn't.jguk 13:57, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • I don't know. Cultural references? Other designs? Potential uses? Surely more can be said than simply how to make one and how to then use it. I'm not an expert on the topic. But if this were to be featured, it would set a really terrible precedent, because up until now, nothing this short has been featured - and any old ones that were this short have since been weeded out. Ambi 14:04, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
          • As a further example, the history section is terrible, and Securiger gives further examples of ways this could be expanded below. As there are ways of expanding this, there is then no excuse for having such a short article. Ambi 11:22, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
            • The article has improved significantly, and though it's still a little on the short side, I think that's quite forgivable, considering the topic. Changing to support. Ambi 07:25, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support Nice concise well-written article. jguk 13:57, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Fascinating, well written article frittered away a whole afternoon for me! - although it is much imporved by the new history section. BTW, some of the external links indicate that there are numerous other designs around. Ideally the article would mention the number of designs, compare top models, and perhaps trace when it became popular for hikers to experiment with them. But that's a heck of a lot of work and I wouldn't withhold my vote waiting for it. Securiger 05:20, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support Wow.--Josiah 06:00, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object, incomplete. Even the links there provide a fair amount of material that is not covered in the article. Specifically (but not limited to) burn time of fuel, ie how much less efficient is it? More details on the construction. I didn't really get an idea of how it worked until I read the external links. Variations on the construction. Is JB weld the only option for building the stove? One of the links refers to foil tape. I could go on, but I only looked at a couple of the external links and found all this. - Taxman 14:31, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)
  • Recent edits have improved the completeness though I see a bit more that needs to be covered. Also, after the additions the organization of material is a bit awkward. Especially the construction section. Aluminum should not be used, but is the best choice? More could be said about both of those and about the windscreen, why needed, etc. Also some clarification is needed on the variations. What are the "internal" lines in the drawings there for? I think it would be clearer without them, I have no idea what they are trying to show. Is the side burner version more efficient since it blocks the fuel vapor from coming out anywhere but the burner holes? - No problem on that one if there is no data to tell either way, but in general the info on each variation could be epanded. Especially interesting is the more powerful sealed version. - Taxman 01:53, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)
• Objections: The history section is too short to be a section, we should expand it. There are no references. The images could use better captions. The variations section should should be expanded and turned into flowing prose. ✏ Sverdrup 23:07, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• One very, very small objection: I think this should come with some sort of safety warning/disclaimer. -Litefantastic 21:31, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

good idea, is there a tag for this? I couldn't find one. If not, how is one made?Duk 21:32, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The following comes close: CAUTION: USE WIKIPEDIA AT YOUR OWN RISK! I'll paste it onto the article, thus resolving my own objection. -Litefantastic 12:05, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

An explicit link to Wikipedia:Disclaimer or Wikipedia:Risk disclaimer too? My only concern would be, does this impliedly mean that unarticles without an express disclaimer are somehow "safer". -- ALoan (Talk) 12:13, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

In the sense that the person unertaking actions based on stuff he-she learned from reading things here is totally resposible for whatever happens. All things considered, we really ought to pay more attention to safety. -Litefantastic 18:42, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I removed the warning first without seeing this obection. Yet after reading this here, I still believe it should be removed -- the purpose of having all articles link to the general disclaimer is so that individual articles do not need them -- that's why we took them all out months ago. →Raul654 20:08, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

• Support Page has been updated with many of the suggestions here. Clear and concise. Duk 05:07, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support - this is much better than it was! -- ALoan (Talk) 13:55, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Old Swiss Confederacy

Wow. Extensive, detailed content; great use of some beautiful images/maps from de: and fr:; highly wikified content; excellent use of a timeline -- could use better references and footnoting, but otherwise a model article. +sj+ 23:42, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Great material, but the intro basically requires someone already knowing a lot of background material. Also there are several one sentence paragraphs throughout. Those need to be expanded, merged, or removed. Finally, the references and citation wouldn't just be nice, they are needed. The literature links don't even seem to be claimed to have been used as references. At least a couple English references are needed I would think. - Taxman 23:56, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
  • • I've merged the one-sentence paragraphs in the "Consolidation" section. Lupo 08:04, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Still more to go. Its a kinda minor point, but a very simple and obvious breaking of good prose rules with no upside to it. - Taxman 13:32, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
        • I find three: at the beginning of the "Consolidation" and of the "Swiss mercenaries" sections, and the one with the Swiss saying. The first two are actually mini-summaries of the sections; I wanted to have them visually separated from the more elaborate text that follows. I also wanted to separate the saying from the rest of the discussion of the Burgundy Wars. Oh, there is one more: the 2nd paragraph in "The Dreizehn Orte", but that one (a) is long enough (three lines, and I use a rather small font and a large window), and (b) deals with events not directly related to what is described in the adjacent paragraphs and thus may, in my opinion, remain a paragraph of its own. I don't find any others... I made a concious decision to have these four instances of single-sentence paragraphs, but if it bothers you, go ahead and change them. Lupo 13:56, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
          • Well if they are distinct enough to stand alone, they should be expanded a bit. Especially the first sentence in 'Consolidation' could add one or two more sentences that serves as an introduction to what that section is talking about. Two of the others I could not see how they were unrelated to what they were next too, so I merged them. The others do seem to have enough clauses and information to stand alone. - Taxman 16:27, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
    • As to the intro: (1) It is a brief summary of the rest of the article. As such, it glosses over many, many details, and much of the background: it's an abstract. (2) The article is part of a series. Some of the earlier events are covered in Early history of Switzerland (which still needs expansion...). What background info were you missing? Lupo 08:04, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • See Wikipedia:Lead section for what the lead section should do. Being part of a series is not an excuse for me having to read the other articles in the series or having to click each linked article to know what this one is about. All necessary material to understand the topic should be included inline. For example "...part of the Eidgenossenschaft, whatever that is". And what is a canton? Also, the intro doesn't need to tell that it is part of an article series, that is nonstandard, but it does need to tell what the Old Swiss Confederacy is. What was significant about it, what made it a definable period in Swiss history? What were its primary characteristics? - Taxman 14:44, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)
        • I beg to differ. Wikipedia:Lead section clearly says that "the lead should briefly summarize the article", which is what this article's lead section does. I have now added very brief descriptions for "Eidgenossenschaft", "canton", and "reichsfrei" (if someone knows an English term for the latter, all the better), but I don't think much more should be done. And yes, I do think that it doesn't hurt to state in the intro that this article is part of a series. It makes the reader aware that earlier and later events are covered elsewhere. I have improved the intro a little by explicitly stating that the distinguishing characteristic of that period was the continued struggle for independence against the Habsburgs. Lupo 19:41, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
          • Well it may summarize the article, but that is not what I was referring to. Sorry but it’s just not a very good or very well written lead section. It still contains a number of terms that are not explained. It takes a reading of the entire lead section, parts of the rest of the article and a number of linked articles to really get what is going on. - Taxman 14:57, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
            • That objection is not actionable for me. I did the best I could (try summarizing more than 200 years in a few sentences!). If you think it could still be improved, then please go ahead and show me how you'd do it. And of course you have to read the whole lead, and the article, to really get what's going on. I don't see how it could be otherwise... Lupo 15:46, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
              • Well that's not the definition of actionable. Actionable means possible to be acted on. It certainly is because there are lots of articles with great lead sections that come through here. And yes if you don't mind my reworking it, I will see if I can't give it a clear definition and start with the most important information and move down. A great lead section certainly can give a good idea of what is going on with the topic without having to read anything else. - Taxman 14:15, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)
                • See below (my reply to the comment of Chris 73). Lupo 08:32, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
                  • Yes, exactly what I was looking for. Sorry if I wasn't helpfully clear about what it needed. - 13:32, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
  • Yes, the lack of refs is a real bother. I left a note on the talk page...
    • I've added two references in English and left a comment on Talk:Old Swiss Confederacy. Lupo 07:49, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Ok, those are fine for me. But the books in the literature section that were used as actual reference should probably be noted as such under a 'references' section, and the others left under a further reading section. - Taxman 14:44, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)
        • Why not. Done. Lupo 19:41, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support, it's an impressive article. The English and spelling needed work in places, but I think I fixed most of the problems; I was a little hesitant to work on a few areas, though, where I wasn't entirely sure of the meaning. Everyking 20:42, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • If there were areas where the meaning wasn't clear enough, we should try to improve those areas. What were they? Lupo 07:46, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support. What an excellent piece (we can only wish User:Lupo a long life with a lot of WP time on his hands ;o) — minor things: the "Gut, Mut, Blut" bit may require translation. "Primeval cantons" sounds a bit... atavistic; maybe "founding cantons" or "original cantons"? dab 09:10, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • For the saying, there is an HTML comment in the text asking for a translation. (And now also on the talk page —Lupo 11:24, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)) I somehow cannot come up with a good one. For the "primeval cantons": where did you find that? I know I have written that phrase somewhere, somewhen, but I can't find it in the text. I like your suggestions and would like to change it—maybe it was in some other article? Lupo 10:08, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Found it; it's on the map's legend. Will change it now to "Founding cantons". Lupo 10:47, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Big support, one of the best things i ever read on wiki, pity Lupo didnt get the gold medal ;) [[User:Muriel Gottrop|muriel@pt]] 10:48, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • For those who weren't aware of this: Muriel is referring to Danny's contest, where this article was one of the runner-ups. Lupo 11:24, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Any more this good, Lupo? Filiocht 11:15, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC) Filiocht 11:15, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Tough subject, but well presented. Two possible points of improvement would be: (A) more images from that time (should be easy, copyright expired). (B) The lead section: The first paragraph This article is part of the series on the history of Switzerland... is somewhat odd, it talks more about the article than about the actual events. However, i do not see a big objection as Taxman does. Great work, Lupo! -- Chris 73 Talk 12:03, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)
  • Thank you—now that was a helpful comment. I have now rewritten the intro such that it no longer talks about the article. Maybe that's what Taxman tried to tell me? If so, I think his objection has been addressed. (I had asked him to jump in and do the changes he wanted to see, but apparently he didn't have the time...) Lupo 08:32, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Hi, yes, much better. Sorry I didn't get to it, but you've done much better than I could have for a subject I don't know. - Taxman 13:32, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
  • Also added onetwo more images. Actually, finding good images of events in the late Middle Ages isn't exactly easy... Lupo 09:03, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Intro reads much better now. Also, to illustate the Gotthardpass, you could use I added the bridge image from de:Teufelsstein, the first of which was built in the 13th century according to de:Geschichte der Schweiz -- Chris 73 Talk 10:31, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
      • No, sorry, both bridges shown on that image are much later. The original 13th century bridge no longer exists, it was destroyed in a flood in 1888. The upper one is the third Teufelsbrücke, built in 1958; the smaller one is the second Teufelsbrücke and was built at the beginning of the 19th century. There is a painting from 1833 showing the first Teufelsbrücke and behind it the second bridge in construction. Lupo 10:48, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Lovely. James F. (talk) 10:52, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Economy of Africa

An outgrowth of recent efforts to unbias our fair 'pedia, and a sexy effort by SimonP and ChrisG. This is a particular milestone since there are no other continents with "Economy of" articles to use as a guideline (see Economy of Europe and Economy of Australia if you must). --+sj+ 23:13, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Yes, I know the nomination was clobbered [3], but this was just recently nominated and there are objections that have not been addressed at all. Specifically the sentence in the intro "Improving Africa's economy as it emerges from the aftereffects of colonialism and it struggles with democracy, welfare and quality of life is one of the most important issues facing the modern world." Even though many may agree with that, it is an unnacceptable POV for a featured article. It needs to be re written so it is more factual. - Taxman 23:49, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
  • Well I NPOV'd that, hopefully someone can fix it so it flows better. - Taxman 19:51, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Tuf-Kat 23:51, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

• Ah - I thought this was nominated recently, but I couldn't see it in the achive of promoted articles or of rejected ones... This was overwritten by another section (that old chestnut again). What it said was:

[that was me, by the way -- ALoan (Talk) 00:00, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)]

---

A thorough, well-written, all-around excellent article on an interesting and important topic. —No-One Jones ^(m) 00:43, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Strong support. Fredrik | talk 08:46, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Absolute support. Best article of the year. Ambi 08:50, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Filiocht 09:05, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
• Support - Xed 09:33, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support - Simon has already implemented my suggested changes. ✏ Sverdrup 10:05, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Important and excellent. ChrisG 11:31, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Oppose. The information is good, but the article is sorely in need of an editor. I may lend a hand if I have time. Someone correctly pointed out on the talk page that African_gdp_growth.png is almost illegible to anyone with red–green colour blindness. The burgundy and the dark olive green in particular will look almost the same to about 8% of males. I suggest changing either the reds or the greens to blues. Incidentally, the first map on the page, the one done entirely in greens, is very easy to read, irrespective of colour blindness. Shorne 12:08, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

  What kind of editing do you think it needs? —No-One Jones ^(m) 12:16, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

  • Just now I edited the introductory paragraph. Check the revision history for my changes. I can also point out the bizarre sentence "Africa's economy is more reliant on agriculture than that of any other continent with a majority of Africans still working the soil", which, for want of a comma, means something rather different from what was intended. I'll support this nomination once the English is cleaned up. Shorne 12:24, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I've done a fair bit of copyediting and linkage. How does it look now? —No-One Jones ^(m) 13:34, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • I've done some more editing myself. More could be done, but I'll withdraw the objection. I have another one, however, about one of the maps. See above. Shorne 19:28, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Wow... Definite support, this is an excellent piece of work! Zerbey 14:06, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Great material. I see at least two issues: 1.) The sentence in the intro "Improving Africa's economy as it emerges from a period of colonialism and struggles with democracy, welfare and quality of life is one of the most important issues facing the modern world.", while many may agree with, is an unnacceptable POV for a wikipedia article. It either needs to be cited to a source that said it, or turned into a factual statement, not a value judgement. 2.) The Geography section needs some work. The second paragraph has redundant sentences in it. I would have fixed that except for the problem is not only geographic it is political. It is the fact that the interior countries are landlocked that cause the problem, not the geography alone. The end of the third paragraph is a POV mess. That is one explanation, but is not neccessarily correct. Wikipedia can't state things like that as fact without citation. That is all the farther I got, but I assume similar issues happen later in the article. So unfortunately object for now. - Taxman 15:47, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
• Strong support. Simon A. 20:59, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. This is mostly my article, and seeing as I made it my entry in Danny's contest I am quite pleased with it. Many thanks to everyone who has since edited and improved it. I am aware the article is not perfect. I am concerned that it gives short shrift to many subjects, but I think this is unavoidable with such a massive subject matter. I would also prefer more numbers and statistics, but accurate numbers are very difficult to find. I would also like to have the colour blind be able to read the maps, but I do not know much about how best this can be done. - SimonP 03:25, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
• Oppose, for lack of certain informations. The history section has several problems, no information before tenth century and a very limited informations on slavery. "This region became quite prosperous as Swahili traders exported ivory and slaves to a trade that spanned the entire Indian Ocean region." is the only sentence to mention slavery at all and this make it look like only Swahili was involved or that it had only a small effect in Africa. The agriculture section lacks informations on cattles which is very important in the central Africa. The Disease section has informations on AIDS and malaria but not on any other disease that have been controlled like small pox. Half of the Language issues section is about education and there is no independent section on it. I cannot figure out why the picture "Tamale in linguistically diverse Ghana" is a meaningful one. The only linguistic thing about the picture is a "TOYOTA" on the back of a truck. Something like a picture of a ballot with multiple languages on it, like the one you see in an Indian election, would be better. Revth 03:57, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I would love to implement the above suggestions, but the article is already longer that is officially allowed. At this point adding anything substantial would entail cutting elsewhere, so I personally think more detailed information is better suited to subpages like economic history of Africa, or agriculture in Africa. - SimonP 09:02, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
    • Then what the article needs is to be written more in Wikipedia:Summary style. The article should cover all of the most important facets of the subject, but not in too much detail, and the sections that are too long need to be summarized to make room for other topics that need coverage. The detailed coverage then gets moved to the subarticle or the main article on the topic. - Taxman 23:40, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
      • If someone had written these additional articles then summary style would make sense. But they haven't been written and so this is a unfair suggestion, what makes this article excellent is it successfully describes the key issues in one article.  :ChrisG 18:22, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • No, no, you're missing the concept. In summary style this article wouldn't depend on the main articles on each subtopic, just what is summarized in this article. That is the only way to cover everything properly, with every single important topic covered and none so long that you have to leave out important stuff to fit in the size limit. Anything too long needs to be moved out and summarized, but primarily to improve this article, not specifically to improve the subarticle. - Taxman 02:58, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
      • No I'm not missing the concept. From my perspective, the article is covers the subject matter in a comprehensive manner. In dealing with the important facets it obviously cannot cover every detail. If you use this article in its present state to create a main article with child articles, you will replace one great article with four or five average ones.  :ChrisG 10:24, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• • Agree with Revth. This is a good article, but to be a good featured, it needs sub-articles. With no mention of Axumite Kingdom (just to name one historical empire), the history section is definetly incomplete. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 00:52, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • But that would involve placing far too much detail into this article. It's unfair to object to this one because another article (Economic history of Africa doesn't yet exist. Ambi 04:37, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Some topics need long articles to be good, or division into subarticles. Economy of a continent is a very ambitious project. While the work done on the article so far is amazing and would be many times enough for some other featured articles (like the recently featured infinite monkey theorem, it is not yet enough for Economy of Africa. And ATM this article is already 40k long, it needs to be split into smaller sections anyway. I recommend Warsaw Uprising as an example on how a long article was split into subarticles. I will expand the history section a little with my knowledge, but the section about early history (before Europeans) needs serious work and my objections still stand. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 12:21, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • I expanded the history but it is still far from complete. Considering this is an article about economy I think that is enough, for now. Therefore I withdraw my objectons and for the moment I will abstain here and look at further developments. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:17, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • But the "main article" for the section is blank. This implies there's more information, and is at the very least, misleading. 219.95.164.146 15:02, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • Removed link to non-existent article :ChrisG 18:22, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Sentences about slavery was added, so now a minor object. Revth 02:19, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Great article. I think Revth's concerns can be addressed in seperate articles, ie: History of the Economy of Africa, or something like that, etc. func(talk) 21:01, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support unequivocally. Lisiate 23:12, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:05, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Have you guys really read the whole article? I have seen no attempt made at addressing some of the above objections. - Taxman 15:55, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)
    • Are you going to set a test? Just because you (or indeed anyone else) have objections does not mean that I should have objections. I think it can be featured as it stands. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:14, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • I don't know what that phrase means, just wondering how you could support if you had read it all. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how much it differs from my own. So I was simply asking. - Taxman 19:51, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Have read the whole article (after it won Danny's contesT), and I believe it can be featured as is. Minor improvements would include a bit more NPOV as mentioned by taxman, but that can be argued about -- Chris 73 Talk 14:13, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)
• Object, still. I've had a go at fixing some of the POV, but I saw too many more that I can't fix soon. There are many unattributed statements that are so authoritatively worded that they are a POV problem. There is still some flawed and unattributed economic analysis in the geopolitical section. Many one sentence paragraghs throughout. I'm not saying its not great material, but it has some ways to go before being featured quality. Since I am in the minority objecting, I will see what I can do further to solve these issues. - Taxman 19:51, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

---

John Vanbrugh

This was nominated recently and withdrawn at the request of the authors so they could finish polishing it. I think they are done, and the result is an absolute tour de force. I have done some minor copyediting, but calling it a self-nomination would be to take credit that I do not deserve. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:21, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I concur. I'm in a similar boat. I urge voters to try http://www.google.com to see if anything on the Web compares to this! --Wetman 17:34, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support: Sets the bar higher than print. It's not just good; it's the best concise account of the man I've ever seen. (I did do some copy editing on the article when it was younger.) Geogre 18:06, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support, well researched and excellent writing. Zerbey 23:55, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object At 45kb it's way, way too long. Wikipedia articles should aim to be under 32kb. Perhaps move some detail to subsidiary articles (see cricket for an example of a featured article where this is done). jguk 14:06, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Please see the talk page for whether the "32k limit" is mandatory or indicative. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:00, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The aim of this article has been to provide a full and comprehensive account of John Vanbrugh, to separate architecture and literature would be akin to writing an account of Dr. Jekyll without mentioning Mr. Hyde. Vanbrugh's architectural works have been confined to just 3 buildings, all three have to be summarised in order to explain clearly how Vanbrugh developed baroque; the drama section is hardly verbose, one can't just miss out a play because Wikipedia likes short pages. It would also be impossible to summarise his life without setting it against the historical and cultural background of his era. John Vanbrugh led a full life, hence he requires a full article. Wikipedia is an educational encyclopedia, not a book of potted biographies.Giano 14:58, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That doesn't mean it can't be organised like, say, Isaac Newton (in depth). jguk 07:18, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The content and layout and style of Isaac Newton is hotly discussed on its talk page. It is much longer than John Vanbrugh; and much of it not original but from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, which was exactly what John Vanbrugh was, before Bishonen and I re-wrote it. That text dump type of thing is exactly what Wikipedia should be getting away from Giano 07:44, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I spent yesterday doing up a summarized section on the plays, and sub-articles to go with it, on the pattern of Cricket, but I haven't posted it at John Vanbrugh yet, because it seemed to destroy the integrity of the piece, no matter how much I tinkered with it. I decided in the end that a hierarchic or spider structure like that suits some subjects (Cricket) and not others (Vanbrugh), and we'd better just remove the article from FAC consideration, rather than put it on such a procrustean (?) bed (if I'm thinking of the right story there? Guy lops off hands and feet of guests, or stretches them, to make them fit the bed?). The Isaac Newton example is quite different, in fact I wish I'd hearad of it before. It sounds like a simple way of having the article remain linear (very much our preferred structure for it), and if I've understood it right, you merely have to "turn the page" (=click on "continue") halfway through it. Constructing the handmade TOC needed on the first page looks a bit of a nightmare, but heck, we can learn, or get help. We'll definitely look into this as soon as possible. Unfortunately both Giano and I are very busy today, but we'll be back. Thank you, jguk! Incidentally, the article clocks in at 40 or 41 right now, I saved a few kb by "transcluding" the timeline.--Bishonen 08:29, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

For completeness, I should note that the other way of breaking down an article is as demonstrated in September 11, 2001 attacks or History of the English penny. A stand alone article with a box on the right hand side that links into subsidiary articles.jguk 12:53, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Are you really saying that this article is too comprehensive? What would you like to see separated out and why? -- ALoan (Talk) 17:00, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sorry to but in above Josiah, and GWO, with whom I agree completely, and thanks Aloan for your help, butI am becoming really confused here, why has a complete and comprehensive page got to be broken up, is Wikipedia running out of space, if so how will having two or three separate pages solve the problem. Or are we writing here for children with a low attention span. Incidentally this is not Wikepedia's longest page, even before surgery. Either this project exists to provide as much free information as possible, in the easiest and most convenient way possible, or it does not - Which? Giano 18:19, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Support--Josiah 06:09, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. I've been watching this article develop since its last listing and I think it is everything a good article should be. Filiocht 08:29, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
• Support -- "this article is too long" is so dumb an objection as to be beneath comment. Your dog wants his MTV. -- GWO 15:44, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support -- This article is exemplary. I don't see how splitting it up would be useful to a reader. PRIIS 01:01, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Support -- I don't buy the "too long" argument here. I'm having a rendering problem on Mozilla, but I intend to fix it, so won't object on that basis... Mpolo 20:47, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)
• Support -- Nowhere near "too long", that some of our number suffer from an inability to concentrate should not shoe-horn the rest of us into badly-split articles. James F. (talk) 10:52, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Strongly support, on the condition that the images in the Blenheim Palace section be arranged in a more orderly fashion. -- Emsworth 20:06, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • I have changed the position - is this better? Or would you like to tell me where they should be? -- ALoan (Talk) 20:57, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • This is fine, but is the third image in the section (of the south portico of Blenheim) really necessary? -- Emsworth 21:22, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It is very necessary as it is the only pediment of its type and era in the world, and demonstrates the changes to conventions that Vanbrugh was inaugurating, may not seem much now, but at the time it was a very new architectural feature. Have made small changes to text and caption to justify the reason for inclusuion of the South Portico. Giano 08:34, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Marginated Tortoise

This is a translation of a German article, apparantly written by an expert. I found it to be very interesting and informative with clear prose. I have not worked on this article in any way. Eudyptes 00:47, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Basically support, though it could use a copyedit as there are some clumsy wordings, probably relics of the translation. Tuf-Kat 02:57, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
  • I have given the article a moderate copy-editing. I hope this helps. Eudyptes 03:39, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support, but I'm the translator, so may not count. Mpolo 18:50, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Good article, perhaps somewhat over-illustrated, but I have two (minor) objections: 1) I find it hard to believe that you only used a single reference from 1789. Even if you did, it would be good to add at least more recent word as a "further reading". 2) The units in the article (m, degrees Celsius etc.) should be linked. Jeronimo 21:43, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I translated from the German Wikipedia, as I said above, so for me, that was the actual "reference". I think that the Weblink is the primary reference for the article (but it's blocked by my proxy at work, so I can't check it to get more info). The units were linked until User:Neutrality unlinked them... Do we have a standard here? Mpolo 06:54, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC) -- I left a note for the article's author, but in the process saw that he is actually the author of one of the standard books on the subject. I will add this to the references section. Mpolo 07:09, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
    • The original German author, Richard Mayer, appears to be the person who identified and named the subspecies Testudo marginata sarda. I doubt he needed many references. However, if you check is user page it looks like he has also written a book on European tortoises, which might be good for further reading if you are good with German. -- Solipsist 07:19, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • I believe the standard is to wikilink the first mention of each unit. I can't see it in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers), but I'm sure I've seen it somewhere else... -- ALoan (Talk) 11:15, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • I linked the units (first use only) and added some "Further Reading" in English, along with two web pages in English and Richard Mayer's book. Hopefully this addresses the objections. Mpolo 12:25, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
          • User:Neutrality reverted the unit links again, citing that they "look ugly" in the text. [for numbers, weights, and measures] would seem to support not wikilinking, or only wikilinking the "orders of magnitude" page (which I haven't seen done very often, personally). As this has now become a policy debate, might I suggest that you retract the objection on unit linking, we discuss the policy over at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers), and I promise to update the article to whatever is decided afterwards? Mpolo 07:26, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
  • I remember somebody else asked me to link units of measurement for a nomination here of my own, and I thought is was policy, and one I would agree with, since this encyclopedia is read by Americans who may not know metric units (and the other way round). As this is apparently not policy, I'll not object over it. Jeronimo 11:21, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support - Extremely good article with minor clumsiness in wordings -- Sundar 07:05, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
• Support ZayZayEM 04:01, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support - hardly earth-shattering, but interesting nonetheless. As well as some minor rewording to avoid clumsiness, it could do with some translations checking (there are comments in the source text), but these are just polishing. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:41, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Pictures

The first list is featured articles that do not have a picture and hence would be problematic to put on the main page. Please add pictures and then move to the second list. GFDL or PD preferred — avoid fair use images where possible (they may not be fair use on the main page).

Tangentially connected pictures may also be suitable for the main page, even if they wouldn't sit well with the article itself. Use your common sense.

Featured articles missing pictures

• Chuck Palahniuk (needs picture of author)
• Gram Parsons
• Negligence
• Not the Nine O'Clock News

These now have pictures

• Ackermann function - use pic of equation
• Anno Domini - Smerdis of Tlön 19:14, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Application programming interface - use UML lollipop symbol for an interface.
• ASCII (a lame one)
• Computer security - now has one diagram.
• Gram Parsons, finally found a reasonable one of Gram.
• Have I Got News For You (fair use)
• Illegal prime (It now has 2 images.)
  • Neither of which adds anything to the article. In fact, it detracts. GWO 19:45, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • Instead of criticizing others' work, perhaps you could provide a better image. – Quadell ^{(talk) (help)}[[]] 14:19, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
      • Well, what of? This is an abstract concept. You can't take pictures of it. This article does not need a picture, they add nothing. They've clearly been added to slavishly meet some FAC criterion, which really should have been waived in this case as completely inappropriate. -- GWO
        • The point is that on the front page, the format requires a picture. That is, it is already featured, but can't be used on the front page without some sort of image. I saw that German WP used an image of E=mc² as an image for relativity, for instance. Mpolo 10:49, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
          • If you have to break articles to fit an inflexible format, it's the format that needs reforming, not the articles. GWO
  • I suspect there is always something you can do for an illustration. It doesn't have to be literal, but can be more whimsical or suggestive. Trying thinking latteraly - in this case, perhaps a large '13' cover by a 'no-smoking style' red circle and bar - or perhaps 'The Scales of Justice' with a pile of prime numbers in one of the pans. -- Solipsist 19:18, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Indus Valley Civilization (fair use picture)
• Jazz (still needs free image)
• Jim Henson (still needs free image)
• Korean name - use Image:Hangul_seong.png
• Madonna (singer) (still needs free image)
• Markup language (well, sort-of; suitable for main page? James F. (talk) 15:02, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)) (don't see why not Lupin 00:37, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC))
• Peloponnesian War - use image: Corinth_Temple_of_Apollon.jpg for now, until a better one is found. - Taxman 15:32, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)