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September 28

Greek mythology

In Greek mythology, did any human besides Orpheus go among the dead? If so, for what purpose, and did they return to the world of the living? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 02:55, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See Category:Heroes who ventured to Hades. --Jayron 32 03:13, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 06:37, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

September 29

Bowling record

Hello!!! I am curious to know if my bowling record is now or should be considered for the bowling Hall of Fame? On March 17, 1960 in the Texas State Bowling Tournament I bowled games of 233, 218, and 266 for a scratch series of 717. That record was maintained for 20 years. Please let me know if it is mentioned any where. Thank you!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.141.134.169 (talk) 07:04, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Here [1] are some records of top scores for three-game series. It looks like as of 2010, your score would not have been a record, as it lists 17 men who have bowled 900 point three game series, with the first occurring in 1997. I may be misunderstanding something about the scoring or how they are reported though. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:40, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not even close. Allie Brandt (appropriate first name, no?), for example, bowled 886 back in 1939.[2][3] Clarityfiend (talk) 00:12, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In OP's defense, their 717 score may have been a Texas record at the time. Now that I live in TX, I've found that the stereotypical self-obsession with Texas qua Texas is largely accurate :) SemanticMantis (talk) 15:46, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's still rather doubtful. 717 is just not that high a score, especially in Texas, where everything's bigger. Maybe a record for that particular tournament, but that's not something worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:46, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Max Walker (cricketer)

I was just curious why there's no picture of the sportsman attached to his Wikipedia page? Many thanks for that information, didn't realise the limitations. Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.239.207.2 (talk) 11:57, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, because no-one has added one. And secondly, because it's not as simple as just adding any old photo. The vast majority of photos are copyrighted, and we can't use them. We need to find a free image (see WP:IUP), and it's entirely possible that there are no free images of Max Walker out there. --Viennese Waltz 12:06, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone interested in the life of Max Walker, aka "Tangles", might like to click the wikilink. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:04, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

September 30

barcode

hi,In your description of barcodes you wrote that the barcode starting with 678 is reserved for future use. I recently bought a product with the barcode 6788814939. I am wondering what country is now using this barcode. Please update your information. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:FA43:D600:745E:385E:EFD4:98D8 (talk) 00:06, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please link the page you refer to. I can find no mention of this in barcode or elsewhere in Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:19, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GS1 seems to think 678 is still not assigned, and they'd be the ones to know. If you know the full barcode, you can look it up here and see if it's actually registered. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:40, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe your product barcode was for internal use in an organisation that uses the 678 code unofficially. Dbfirs 17:59, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How can I use directory assistance for England and Australia since I live in Canada

I want to call a friend in London and find out her number. 50.68.118.24 (talk) 05:21, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This page lists a Canadian international directory assistance number: https://www.reference.com/government-politics/call-international-directory-assistance-3aaadd8c9981b439 Rojomoke (talk) 06:06, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't you just use web-based look-up services? There is this one for the UK [4]. However, many people are unlisted these days. --Viennese Waltz 07:17, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.whitepages.com.au/ for Australia. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 15:25, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

irrelevant digression

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This woman in Barnstaple, Devon, UK had her call to the police routed to the Barnstable, MA, USA police department, she may have a few tips. μηδείς (talk) 22:09, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not, Medeis; according to this article, she merely used Cortana to contact the police, so presumably she didn't even see the phone number that she had rung. Nyttend (talk) 19:05, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cortana? Is that like voluntary leprosy? μηδείς (talk) 10:14, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yards and miles

Spoiler warning: While the question I'm asking right now does not reveal the plot of The Shawshank Redemption, the following link does.

Here, the narrator, portrayed by Morgan Freeman, says:

[...] 500 yards [...] just shy of half a mile

So, knowing that half a mile comprises 1,760 ÷ 2 = 880 yards, or half a mile equals to 804.67 meters while 500 yards equals to 457.20 meters, then how is 500 yards "just shy of half a mile"? --Theurgist (talk) 17:13, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's one of many mistakes in the movie. -- BenRG (talk) 19:24, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"just shy of..." is not a precise term. Even if it were, this is a work of fiction, and not a peer-reviewed journal. You didn't need us to fact check the math, you did that yourself. So what, exactly, is the research we're supposed to help you do, exactly? Can you tell us what references you want us to provide for you? --Jayron 32 21:21, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Who knows? I realized it could have been a mistake, but then it's an American movie and Americans deal with miles and yards just as often as we deal with meters and kilometers, so I found it very unlikely that no one in an entire film crew should have known how many yards there are in half a mile, or that they shouldn't have noticed such a simple and blatant mistake if they did know that. It was quite some time after I learned about the miles that I became aware of the existence a different unit of length called "nautical mile", so I wondered if still other units of length exist that are, or were as of the time the plot is set, known as "miles" or "yards". Then I wondered if it was something with the expression "just shy of" – could it mean or imply something different than I think it means or implies? Indeed some terms are less precise than others, but one wouldn't wish to use terms misconveying the idea meant, even if they're technically not wrong.

Whether it's a question touching on a vast topic and requiring research to be done and references to be provided, or it's a straightforward question that just requires a simple factual answer, it can be asked here, right? That's what the Refdesks are for. --Theurgist (talk) 00:23, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It certainly appears that King's original (factual) line was changed. It could have been the screenwriter, or it could be that the actor forgot the exact line and improvised it. Have you tried contacting the screenwriter? And if everyone in the crew was focused on their particular job, they might not have been paying attention to the exact words. One glaring mistake (glaring to science geeks, anyway) was made in the original Star Wars, where Han Solo said something about getting from point A to point B in some number of "parsecs", as if it were a time measurement, which it ain't. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:06, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's not necessarily a mistake in Star Wars. It could have been some slang usage of "parsec" among people familiar with hyperspace travel, just like the way people speak of "pounds" of pressure when they mean pounds per square inch. --69.159.61.230 (talk) 05:29, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Critics at the time it came out said it was an error. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:08, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We don't know whether it was an error. If it was then George Lucas hasn't admitted it. See Kessel Run and Wookieepedia:Kessel Run for explanations offered in official media. They are not part of the post-2014 Star Wars canon so if it comes up in the Star Wars#Untitled Han Solo Anthology film then we don't know how it will be treated there. Star Wars: The Force Awakens repeated the 12 parsecs claim without saying what it means, but the mention indicates Lucasfilm/Disney stand by the original film. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:34, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, King's original novella Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption has: "Five hundred yards. The length of five football fields. Just shy of a mile". ---Sluzzelin talk 22:02, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So then it's wrong in the original story and wrong differently in the movie. I suggest that the real explanation is that a lot of people in North America simply aren't aware of the correct conversion factor between yards and miles. It's not as simple as the factors of 10 or 1,000 that you get in the metric system and we don't commonly mix the two units as in "10 miles and 100 yards", so people who aren't technically inclined are likely to be unfamiliar with the conversion factor. --69.159.61.230 (talk) 05:29, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Stephen King is an American, and would certainly understand the American measurement system. Which, by the way, is superior to metrics for everyday usage. That's why Brits still talk about miles per gallon rather than kilometers per liter. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:08, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Although, annoyingly, all UK petrol pumps are calibrated in litres and my car's tacho is in miles, so I have to do some mental arithmetic to work out my consumption – about 9 miles per litre or 40 per gallon if I drive economically (it's a 13-y-o car). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.211.191 (talk) 09:15, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't start this argument again. I point you to global usage of both measurement systems and leave you to draw your own conclusions. Suffice to say, the vast majority of the worlds population disagrees with you. 86.28.195.109 (talk) 11:14, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You should direct your complaint to the IP who raised the issue. And since the majority of the world's population are obedient little sheep, their conformity to this metric stuff is of no importance. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:59, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's for sure. So much frustration each time they would find a reason to convert yards into miles, or the reverse. --Askedonty (talk) 15:17, 1 October 2016 (UTC) [reply]

Get back to US when India and China, just to name the biggest examples, discover the alphabet. μηδείς (talk) 23:30, 1 October 2016 (UTC) [reply]

Yeah, sure [5] --Askedonty (talk) 14:08, 3 October 2016 (UTC) [reply]

Thanks for the replies.

I realize the comparison between the two systems is a sensitive topic which sets off endless debates and incessant rehashings of old themes, but I can't help sharing a quote from a book I haven't read by an American author I hadn't heard of, which I've seen shared elsewhere on the web, e.g. in this blog post, and which I like a lot and I guess I would still like if I were an American.

In metric, one milliliter of water occupies one cubic centimeter, weighs one gram, and requires one calorie of energy to heat up by one degree centigrade—which is 1 percent of the difference between its freezing point and its boiling point. An amount of hydrogen weighing the same amount has exactly one mole of atoms in it. Whereas in the American system, the answer to ‘How much energy does it take to boil a room-temperature gallon of water?’ is ‘Go fuck yourself,’ because you can’t directly relate any of those quantities.
—Wild Thing, Josh Bazell

--Theurgist (talk) 15:14, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In science classes, we used metric. The lab is a good place for metrics. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:00, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Leaving aside the bickering about what system of units is "better", it seems to me that what we see here is a distressingly common phenomenon of the educated person who can't be bothered, perhaps to learn a few simple conversion factors that are frequently needed, or perhaps to do very simple mental arithmetic even approximately~~, and wants to be given a pass on that because he/she is not in a STEM field~~modified this last thought — see below. King apparently thought 500 yards was "just shy of a mile", and none of his editors called him on it.

Then we can infer that someone working on the film adaptation did notice the error, but wasn't sure what to do about it. "Just shy of a third of a mile" really doesn't have the same ring, and is still a bit of a stretch anyway. Maybe they could have changed it to "more than a quarter mile"? Or just left it out? That's Monday-morning quarterbacking; I don't blame the scriptwriters, who seem at least to have noticed the problem and tried to address it. --Trovatore (talk) 18:22, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In King's defence (or defense?), American road signs use feet (rather than yards) for distances shorter than a mile, so he probably wasn't as familiar with distances in the four-figure yard range as a British driver would be. I always find it difficult to estimate how far "2000 feet" is when driving in the States, even though I'm familiar with non-metric measurements. Tevildo (talk) 19:47, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Where I've been, short distances are often expressed as 1/2 mile or 1/4 mile, or sometimes even 1/3 mile. "Feet" seems to be used for very short distances, like "1000 feet" or "500 feet". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:37, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dividing by three falls in the category of "very simple mental arithmetic".

But even so, sure, it's the kind of thing that can get into a draft manuscript. I get that. I think it's somewhat telling that no one caught it. --Trovatore (talk) 19:51, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I thought it over, and it was not correct of me to attribute the attitude "wants to be given a pass because he/she is not in a STEM field" to King. I do think it's a distressingly common attitude. But I don't have any individualized evidence that King holds that attitude. --Trovatore (talk) 06:07, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The difference is 14 & 2/3 per cent. How is this a monstrous miscalculation, given the author himself admits the inaccuracy? μηδείς (talk) 02:03, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
One statute mile is 1760 yards. Half a mile is 880 yards. The distance through the sewer pipe was 500 yards. Which numbers are you comparing? --Trovatore (talk) 02:28, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(It's true that 500 yards is less than a third of a mile by roughly the percentage you quoted. But the "third of a mile" was my suggestion as to one fix that the screewriters could have adopted; it wasn't in either the book or the movie.) --Trovatore (talk) 05:56, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, my. I miscalculated that a third of a mile was 1720 ft, when it's actually 1760 ft, Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. μηδείς (talk) 09:38, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if the switch from gallons to litres wasn't a marketing ploy by the petrol companies to make fuel appear cheaper at a time of rising oil prices. The British system is more logical than the American. A gallon of water weighs ten pounds. A fluid ounce, which is 1/160 gallon, weighs one ounce. The metre doesn't relate to anything tangible, unlike the inch, foot and yard which all relate to parts of the body. 80.44.164.18 (talk) 13:36, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

According to Metrication in the UK:

"The changeover to selling of petrol by the litre rather than by the gallon took place after the Metrication Board [which presided over voluntary changes]was wound up. It was prompted by a technical shortcoming of petrol pump design: pumps (which were electro-mechanical) had been designed to be switchable between metric and imperial units, but had no provisions for prices above £1.999 per unit of fuel. Once the price of petrol rose above £1 per gallon, the industry requested that they be permitted to sell fuel by the litre rather than the gallon, enabling them to reduce the unit price by a factor of about 4.5 and so to extend the lives of existing pumps."

I'm sure obfustication of the rising price was an element in their calculations, and of course they made no effort to re-introduce the gallon when pumps went all-electronic, which would have been easy and design-cost free. By that time, however, the EU would doubtless have blocked it. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.211.191 (talk) 16:48, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is no need to assume that Stephen King got his conversion wrong - it seems just as likely that he knew perfectly well that 500 yards was nowhere near a mile - but thought it was the type of mistake a man of limited education who had spent his adult life in prison might well make. It is quite legitimate in fiction to have a character say something which is factually incorrect. Wymspen (talk) 16:23, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

October 1

WP:BURDEN, Can burden/onus shift?

I am going to refer to the following, "The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and is satisfied by providing a citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution."

To simplify asking my question, I'm referring to the editor who wants to add/restore material as PRO and the editor who wants to remove it as ANTI.

In the instance where PRO has provided verifiable sources, can ANTI reply solely with assertions and no sources (of any kind)?

What I'm also trying to ask is whether the onus has shifted from PRO to ANTI to substantiate position?

Bubbecraft (talk) 23:21, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If PRO has provided a relevant reliable source, and started a discussion on the talk page, ANTI either has to claim the source doesn't support the claim or challenge it for other reasons on the talk page. ANTI can't just keep removing material without collaboration, or they will eventually find themselves blocked for WP:3RR. This is not actually a ref desk question, so you might want to try the help desk, teahouse, or look for a mentor if needed. μηδείς (talk) 23:28, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

However, nothing on Wikipedia is quite that simple. PRO's material, even with sources, may be a BLP violation. In that case ANTI is not going to be blocked. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 14:46, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that is why I said "other reasons". There are many. But if PRO has given a reasonable source for a reasonable claim, ANTI still has to go to talk and present her ANTI-case. If she doesn't she's subject to WP:3RR at best. μηδείς (talk) 19:22, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

October 2

Australian Band ID from late 1980's

There was an (I believe) Australian band from the late 80's that had two videos play on MTv before it went reality show format. The lead singer was a blond woman. It was basically a New Wave sound, one of the videos may have had a song with a political message; in any case it had east asian children with face paint in it, IIRC. I have a sneaking suspicion I asked this question some years back, but can't find it in the archives. Help with an ID would be appreciated. I've reposted this from the entertainment desk in the hope of catching the attention of those who don't frequent that desk. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 00:17, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Aussie band with blond man singer - Men at Work. Aussie band with political message: Midnight Oil. Can't remember Aussie band with blond woman and political message, but at least I've eliminated two of them! --TammyMoet (talk) 09:03, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Australian New Wave band with a female (but not blonde) singer - the Divinyls. Probably not them, either. Tevildo (talk) 11:36, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Other political ones that are vaguely related to East Asia could be Redgum-I Was Only 19 or Cold Chisel-Khe Sanh Lemon martini (talk) 10:12, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, definitely not Midnight Oil, this came out maybe a few years later, and did not reach #1. And not the Divinyls, who I think were more successful. It's killing me, since I did buy their only charting album, but sold it back when people still bought vinyl.. I doubt they were Kiwis, as at least the video with the east Asian kids was set in a dry-land. μηδείς (talk) 19:16, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Goanna maybe? Marcia is blonde(ish). --TrogWoolley (talk) 10:01, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Goanna? I wish! That would make the question so easy. I think "lust for Life" was a "hit" at the time, even though it was some two decades out of time.

Cleaning hard to reach area

I have on of these pizza cutters. It's not dishwasher safe. How can I clean the space between the cutting wheel and the armature that holds it? †Dismas†|^(talk) 13:12, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I would swish it around in detergent and water first, to remove the grease, then soak in hydrogen peroxide, 3% solution, to sterilize it, and finally dry it. I then suggest you put this decorative Star Trek pizza cutter in a display case, and get a real pizza cutter for your future pizza cutting needs (or just use a knife). StuRat (talk) 13:39, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A view of the pizza cutter at 3:23 in another video suggests that its zinc-alloy body can be split apart after removing screws, possibly releasing the stainless steel blade for cleaning. AllBestFaith (talk) 14:06, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Those type of cutters were invented to cut any size pizza after they had been placed in a box for take-way. In the home, just use a long curved kitchen knife and place a hand on on back of blade to provide downward pressure. Rock knife down from sharp end to handle. Quicker to do and much quicker to clean. Also easier to keep sharp. Its the way I've seen professional chiefs do it at home.--Aspro (talk) 23:01, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dental floss and soapy water? SemanticMantis (talk) 15:14, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

October 3