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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Adam Cuerden (talk | contribs) at 20:50, 9 July 2015 (→‎To do). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

A selection of June and July's new articles...

Composer and Opera of the Month Proposals

A simple script will automatically replace the text on the front page with the appropriate month when the time comes. Here are the next three months:

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Composer of the Month for June 2024

Click Here to set up June's Composer of the Month!

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Opera of the Month for June 2024

Click Here to set up June's Opera of the Month!

Click here to show the July and August Opera and Composer of the Month preparation areas
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Composer of the Month for July 2024

Click Here to set up July's Composer of the Month!

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Opera of the Month for July 2024

Click Here to set up July's Opera of the Month!

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Composer of the Month for August 2024

Click Here to set up August's Composer of the Month!

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Opera of the Month for August 2024

Click Here to set up August's Opera of the Month!

Clean up project: Copyright violations
Copyright clean up project
This is an ongoing and vital project to clean up what is potentially a significant number of opera-related articles with copyright violations both from the Grove reference books and from other sources. Please see our copyvio cleanup page for details and how to help. Our purpose is to address a serious legal concern for Wikipedia and to maintain the integrity of articles under the scope of WikiProject Opera. All Wikipedia editors are encouraged to assist us.
Project alerts


Archives – Table of Contents
Archives – Alphabetical Index

Article creation and cleanup requests

Note: Past creation and cleanup requests are archived here. Voceditenore (talk) 11:29, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Article requests
Cleanup requests
Voceditenore (talk) 18:48, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This list is updated weekly, on a Tuesday (according to its History list). Scarabocchio (talk) 20:11, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject X

This is an initiative to improve WikiProjects and other subject-area collaborations on Wikipedia through research, design, and experimentation. The archive of their past newsletters is here. The WikiProject X coordinator is Harej. – Voceditenore (talk) 11:20, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Free subscriptions to databases

Voceditenore (talk) 10:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Opera articles: Recordings - which to exclude?

As there has been no further discussion on this since early December 2010, I've archived this here. But this is a topic we may want to revisit at some point, re expanding/clarifying the current article guidelines. Voceditenore (talk) 08:37, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The latest discussion (January 2014) is archived here. – Voceditenore (talk) 09:12, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings from the German language Opera Project

Hello, just wanted to say Hi! from the German language Opera Project. We started in the beginning of 2011, a very recent effort compared to you. Likewise, our average articles on operas, composers etc. are quite behind the en:WP in terms of coverage and content. Which is a shame, considering the richness of opera life in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. We have started by focussing on the widely read articles on popular operas, see this List, which gives page impressions in de:WP and en:WP and also global number of productions per year as a proxy for popularity. The rationale is this: given our low number of contributors, having 20 formerly poor articles on popular operas turned into solid works is worth more then 20 more articles on arcane subjects. How did you go about growing your project? PS: Maybe there could be some areas of cooperation, especially as regards access to and understanding of German language sources and literature. Let me know what you think. --Non mi tradir (talk) 16:49, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have introduced this timely proposal to the discussion here. --Smerus 20:27, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Articles needing libretto links

Note that for now some of the Rossini librettos can still be accessed from the list on this page on Karadar, but it will require adding those new links to the articles, and I'm not sure how long it will be before Karadar closes that loop hole. Anyhow, here's the list of operas so far where I've removed dead links and there is currently no other alternative. It's also possible to recover some of the karadar links via the Wayback machine, as was done at L'éclair, although it's a bit fiddly. If you add a new link, just strike through the opera name(s) below. Voceditenore (talk) 16:55, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Help! Does anyone know how to access Karadar these days? It appears to be a dead link - and I've tried to get into it via a couple of ways. Viva-Verdi (talk) 16:15, 24 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Viva-Verdi. It appears to have disappeared in all its guises–.com, .org. and .it. I have a feeling they ran into copyright problems with some of their stuff. It's not showing up on Google searches at all and see this wacky note. I have found this other site which has links to zillions of libretti. Hopefully, you'll find the one(s) you're looking for. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:06, 24 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
List

Le domino noir (only score found), Sigurd (opera), Ciro in Babilonia, Sigismondo, Ricciardo e Zoraide, Eduardo e Cristina, L'equivoco stravagante, I Capuleti e i Montecchi, Médée (Charpentier), Emilia di Liverpool, Francesca di Foix, Il signor Bruschino

Spam links to watch out for

Tool for finding all pages currently linking to a particular domain

  • streamopera.com Commercial site based in Italy selling streamed opera recordings. Had been added to 20 singer and opera articles. Voceditenore (talk) 10:45, 11 May 2015 (UTC) Not yet blacklisted[reply]

Requested opera templates

Archived at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 120. Voceditenore (talk) 09:46, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Free access to RIPM

Hello all! The Wikipedia Library has just launched a partnership with RIPM to offer Wikipedians free access to this archive of music periodicals. Please sign up for one of the 20 free accounts at WP:RIPM. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:27, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Viva-Verdi

I have just heard that John Webber, known in these pages as Viva-Verdi, has died.[1] RIP. Scarabocchio (talk) 14:32, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • What terribly sad news! He has been an editor since 2005 and was one of the most active and helpful members of the Opera Project....
Va, pensiero, sull'ali dorate
Voceditenore (talk) 15:19, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
--Smerus (talk) 19:50, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh my gosh, what terrible news. Thank you for letting us know. Rest in Peace, and blessings and best wishes to his family. Softlavender (talk) 20:11, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Terribly missed, such an inspiration based on profound knowledge, - no wonder he never replied to my last message, - Lacrymosa, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:47, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very sad. RIP. --Folantin (talk) 11:05, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I teared up when I saw this, and it made me think how odd to feel a connection to someone I have never met in person and whose real name I never knew until after they were gone. You will be missed Viva-Verdi. To all in this project, I am proud to have worked with you on something of value to the world and I genuinely feel real affection for all of you. As a tribute to Viva-Verdi, perhaps he left work unfinished or unposted in his sandbox which we as a project might be able to complete in his honor. Best.4meter4 (talk) 01:42, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
My post there has a link to here, for the obituary. (Help me to remember to change it when this goes to the archive, please.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:30, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Voceditenore has the obituary in her opening announcement there, so don't actually need to remember it for the obituary, but you might want to keep this link for these notes of remembrance which differ from those on that page..... Softlavender (talk) 06:59, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • John and I had been working on and off to upgrade the article on Falstaff with Featured Article in mind. I have now nominated it for FAC, as a valediction to a fine editor. All suggestions from Viva-Verdi's colleagues for improving it will be gladly received. Tim riley talk 12:24, 15 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Almanacco Amadeus - Che disastro!

I knew it was only a matter of time before they monkeyed with the www.amadeusonline.eu/almanacco.php version. The search facility is now disabled and only renders the happenings for "today". We're back to 100s of broken links in refs. Most of the entries are available as cached versions via a Google search , e.g. [2], but I doubt if that will last long. Grrrrrr. Voceditenore (talk) 17:11, 17 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Update Well, it's not a complete disastro, just a mezzo-disastro. The search facility is back on the .net version of the site at http://www.amadeusonline.net/almanacco.php. However, the URL for the results is completely different. You cannot simply substitute .net for .eu in the old URLs. Example:

Scarabocchio, is this going to be easy to fix in your Template:Almanacco? Voceditenore (talk) 08:21, 18 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done and tested. Scarabocchio (talk) 11:59, 18 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much, Scarabocchio! If you hadn't spent all that time updating the old links with the new template a couple of months ago, we'd be in the proverbial soup now. Voceditenore (talk) 18:11, 18 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Grazie, VdT, for these words and the barnstar, but I have only updated half of the links (around 350 or so). Can I give you half a barnstar back? .. perhaps in exchange for the proverbial paddle? Scarabocchio (talk) 20:54, 18 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Piffle! Even half the links is a huge number (the template is already transcluded in almost 200 articles). I decree that you shall keep the whole Barnstar. Now, get cracking on the rest of those links! . Best, Voceditenore (talk) 06:59, 19 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
VdT, i vostri ordini sono deliziosi; il vostro modo di imporli ancora più amabile. Non è la prima volta, lo sapete, che rimpiango di non essere più vostro schiavo.... Done. Converting all of the .eu links on my list has taken us to 502 transclusions. Scarabocchio (talk) 10:03, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nel cor più non mi sento

I am an inexperienced Wikipedia editor, so before I make a major change to this article, I would like to solicit feedback from the folks that are most likely to have suggestions or objections. The article is in need of major revisions because it incorrectly identifies this piece as an aria rather than a duet. (I'm assuming this is based on the popular version Parisotti included in his collection.) I've prepared an accurate description of the piece, included a new translation (more word-for-word or line-by-line rather than a singable English version). The new version is over in my sandbox right now. Again, because I have only ever done very light editing before, I may not have the formatting correct, so please don't be too unkind.--LadyIslay (talk) 23:48, 18 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Composer/opera of the month

This seems to have gone dead (see top of page and click 'show')- are there any proposals forthcoming?--Smerus (talk) 17:24, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Smerus. Sometimes people do make proposals. If not, I fill in the template myself shortly before the month changes with something to work on so that there's always a CoM and OoM on the main project page. See here for the current ones. (If they're showing blank just click of the "refresh" link in the template.) I try to make them related to some anniversary in that month. I'd be delighted if people were more active in filling in the proposals. Sometimes it makes my brain hurt trying to cook up something at the last minute . Voceditenore (talk) 17:46, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK I think part of the trouble may be that the template is in a 'click to show' format - if it was open and gaping to the four winds we (scilicet: I) who mainly look at the talk page rather than the front page perhaps would be more likely to note it and make proposals/take action on them. In the meantime I will rack my brains (such as remain) for some suggestions, and consider what I could do for June..--Smerus (talk) 17:58, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe there's an opera being resurrected for a summer festival which could serve as a focus for wiki-inspiration? - kosboot (talk) 18:00, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
June's already done and on the main project page, Smerus. We need proposals for July, August, and September. The script for the proposals was written by Adam Cuerden. It's quite ingenious. When the first of the month comes around, the proposal for that month automatically moves from here to the main page and a new proposal form automatically moves onto the talk page so that there are always forms available for the next three months. Voceditenore (talk) 18:18, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
PS I could uncollapse the proposal forms, but they would be whopping. Maybe I'll try first reminding everyone here about filling them in each month. Voceditenore (talk) 18:23, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If I might suggest, it would be fairly easy to add a bit to the script that would put next month's proposal outside the collapse box, then have the two months after that collapsed.
As for a proposal, as you likely know, Viva-Verdi died recently. I realise that Verdi doesn't have a lot of gaps, but, given he was so active here, it may be worth doing improvement drives. Giuseppe Verdi looks to just to need some sourcing and cleanup for good article, for instance. Adam Cuerden (talk) 22:10, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This seems an excellent idea - at first glance btw the article is very heavily over-pictured, and will need some stripping to reach GA.--Smerus (talk) 08:07, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Inclined to agree. It also needs a bit more standardizing - the images lurch to the left and right seemingly at random, and with sizes also seemingly chosen at random. Adam Cuerden (talk) 10:17, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've put him in for July, and found three operas of his that are major operas and lack key sections, that would make good projects. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:05, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Another idea: to the composer & opera of the month, add singer of the month. Even if not tagged, some of the singer bios are not really up to the standard of a reasonable WP article. It might be a way to help teach newbies (like the user talked about in discussions above) a different way of approaching article creation. kosboot (talk) 22:39, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think that was actually the original selections (One opera, one singer), but they got switched to the current arrangement a while after this was set up. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:26, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
kos and Adam, Composer of the Month, was started in 2006 and originally focused on creating articles for operas by various composers in The Opera Corpus. It now focuses on improving opera composers' biographies and the coverage of subjects related to their works. In late 2007 Singer of the Month was added and focused on creating articles for singers. Then people found it a bit too restrictive. So from January 2009, this was changed to Opera of the Month and now focuses on improving existing articles on an opera (or operas) and subjects related to them (including article creation or improvement for their role creators). The archive of all the past monthly collaborations is here. There's no reason why we couldn't sometimes focus on a single singer article to improve in the OoM and temporarily re-title it SoM, if there are people prepared to work on one. Voceditenore (talk) 14:26, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
On the main point, Template:OotMProposed has been updated. It should be fairly clear what's going on - I've upgraded the script to use the #time Parser function which vastly simplifies that template (check the history). All you need to know to read it is that the {{#time:F|now+1 month}} things are just a way to return the name of the month (or year when it's #time:Y) in a certain number of months in the future. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:23, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Verdi image project

I wanted to something in Viva-Verdi's memory, and trying to get more Verdi featured content seemed suitable. Want to commit to this here so I can't back out. Adam Cuerden (talk) 17:56, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

At the same time I've been looking at Giuseppe Verdi and tried to weed out some of the images which are/were cluttering the article, whilst thinking of how to move the article as a whole to GA. When you say 'Verdi image project' is this a generic move to populate/create more Verdi articles including illustrations - or do you have saomething else in mind?--Smerus (talk) 18:13, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
More to provide better images for Verdi's operas, which are much less-well illustrated. Also, a lot of these are already used, but really, really badly. Have a look, for example, at the appalling crop used in Giovanna d'Arco. Edit: Not anymore. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:21, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This sounds like a good idea, Adam. Another article that is a nightmare "bag of a thousand pix" is Vincenzo Bellini. A hapless editor tried to do something about it but got reverted as "vandalism " by a rather clueless ClueBot [3]. Something to keep in mind for another CoM perhaps. Voceditenore (talk) 14:14, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Voceditenore: Ooh, Bellini's particularly bad as there's not even context given. E.g. "Composer Luigi Cherubini". Worse, the only mention of Cherubini in the text? "Among the many musical figures were several Italian such as Michele Carafa and the imposing Luigi Cherubini, then in his seventies." - NOTHING ELSE ABOUT CHERUBINI IS SAID IN THE ENTIRE ARTICLE. I'm honestly inclined to just strip out any image not depicting him or monuments to him, his operas, a librettist, or someone mentioned in the title of a section, and start over. Adam Cuerden (talk) 14:46, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Voceditenore: I went ahead and revised images in Vincenzo Bellini. I think it looks a lot more professional, and what images are used have impact. Adam Cuerden (talk) 15:03, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much Adam. That's a huge improvement! If I stumble on any more over-pixed articles that could use your pruning shears, I'll post 'em here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 10:26, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
PS The images you've done so far are fab, Adam! And many thanks to Crisco 1492 who uploaded many of the originals. I've reduced the size of the gallery images, by half, as they were making the page very slow to load, and not great for small screens. But I urge everyone to click on them to see the now very impressive full-size versions. Voceditenore (talk) 11:00, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To do

  • Falstaff
    Falstaff
  • Simon Boccanegra
    Simon Boccanegra
  • Aida
    Aida
  • Aida
    Aida
  • Das Liebesverbot (Viva-Verdi wrote the performance history section)
    Das Liebesverbot (Viva-Verdi wrote the performance history section)
  • L'etoile
    L'etoile
  • Aida Act 1 Scene 2
    Aida Act 1 Scene 2
  • Aida Act 2 Scene 2
    Aida Act 2 Scene 2
  • Higher-resolution image now available, so should update this.
    Higher-resolution image now available, so should update this.

Also: André-Adolphe-Eugène Disdéri's photos of Verdi; http://www.stadtmuseum.de/sites/default/files/mediapool/ct_veranstaltung/verdi_360dpi-a4_003.jpg and http://www.rts.ch/2013/10/09/09/18/5278596.image

Bonus To Do

Things he worked on less extensively.

Things he probably would be happy I worked on, even if he didn't

Because, frankly, I think he'd be happy I was editing opera on his behalf, even if it was different operas. Going to focus on ones he at least curated, though.

Done

Verdi

With a view to getting Giuseppe Verdi up to GA (eventually), I've now weeded out and reorganized many of the images in the article, and begun copyediting. But in the process it looks to me like the article needs very substantial rewriting. It is full of a lot of clutter detail about individual operas that really belong in the opera articles rather than the biography article. And there is very little about influence, etc. (or indeed provenance - what V took over from Grand Opera, Rossini, etc. etc.). In the process V's actual life seems to me difficult to extrapolate for the general reader. But before I go much further I would appreciate some other opinions. Best, --Smerus (talk) 19:35, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

One thought: Check the opera pages. Some of the material to be cut might be useable there; the opera pages are hardly perfect. Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:24, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I've flushed out a number of pix, and relocated details on the operas to a separate section. This has revealed that the biography section was extremely uneven, containing a lot of inconsequential detail and unenlightening quotes from various writers; many passages were (and are) based on one particular biographer, with much space given to rumour and suppositions. I've begun to copyedit the existing text, inadequate though it is. For example, there is almost nothing on the final 20 years of Verdi's life. I would hope eventually to achieve a complete rewrite, based on four areas - biography, music, reception and legacy - which I have found to be appropriate and acceptable in other GAs on which I have worked. But this is going to take quite a while.--Smerus (talk) 07:18, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is there anything I can do? I don't have a lot of sources to hand, but I could hit the library if given a task. Adam Cuerden (talk) 12:42, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Adam, I suggest that I plough on till I get the thing down to basics and then I will start re-building and give you a call. Best, --Smerus (talk) 13:15, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Featured operatic pictures

Un ballo in maschera, I Lombardi, Giovanna d'Arco, Les Troyens, La Prise de Troie, Les Troyens à Carthage is are now a featured pictures. The images for Rigoletto, I Lombardi alla prima crociata, Giovanna d'Arco, and Les Troyens [all passed], are up at featured picture candidates, but - probably owing to it being the time university students have their final exams, at a guess - participation at featured pictures is in the middle of a lull, and, with the exception of the three Les Troyens images and I Lombardi, they may not reach quorum and thus have to be renominated later. Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:52, 15 June 2015 (UTC) Update: Problem seems to have passed; only Rigoletto failed to reach quorum. Adam Cuerden (talk) 15:54, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Adam. The 3 new FAs have been added to the Portal:Opera rotation as Selected pictures 53, 54, and 55. Voceditenore (talk) 07:51, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Few more! Adam Cuerden (talk)
Ditto for the Les Troyens score set. See the Portal's Selected pictures 56, 57, and 58. Voceditenore (talk) 08:02, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Heh. Beat me to it! Thanks, Voceditenore! Adam Cuerden (talk) 09:22, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also featured: File:Carl Nielsen c. 1908 - Restoration.jpg and File:Giuseppe Verdi, La traviata title page - Restoration.jpg. Adam Cuerden (talk) 00:03, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

File:Jacques Offenbach - A. Jannin - Robinson Crusoé.jpg was featured today. Adam Cuerden (talk) 15:44, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

File:Giuseppe_Verdi,_Rigoletto,_Vocal_score_illustration_by_Roberto_Focosi_-_Restoration.jpg as well. Adam Cuerden (talk) 09:23, 5 July 2015 (UTC) File:Strauss, Richard - Ariadne auf Naxos - Restoration.jpg which I think is the first modernist opera with a featured picture (or, at least, one specific to it). Adam Cuerden (talk) 02:01, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone need any images?

I can't promise anything, obviously, but given I want to do a lot of opera anyway, if there's requests, I can try. More general requests ("Operas by Wagner") are more likely to succeed than specific ("Das Liebesverbot"), though that example may be an exception. Adam Cuerden (talk) 04:58, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Adam Cuerden, I need an (additional or better) image for the operetta Schwarzwaldmädel. I found this lovely painting on German wiki [4], and would love for it to be transfered to Commons so I could replace the current image with it. Could you manage that? Also, are there any other images for this operetta that you could come up with? Thanks, Softlavender (talk) 08:39, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Softlavender: I've looked. I've found one image, although it's kind of terrible: There's a high-res PDF of the score here - it's not an amazing image, and I don't think I can do an amazing amount with it, but it's something. I'll also get the image moved over, but a warning: That may just be an image of a girl from the Black Forest, not an illustration of the opera. Adam Cuerden (talk) 21:48, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Adam. Yeah, that score is pretty dorky; I don't think it would improve the article. Thanks for sleuthing, though! I still would like the Rudolf Epp painting of the lady in Black Forest attire, even though it's not particular to the operetta; I have a similar image in the article now but it's not very good and this would make an excellent replacement. Let me know when you have had time to move it to Commons. Thanks!! Softlavender (talk) 01:14, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Softlavender, in the interim I've uploaded that painting to Commons from another source. It's at File:Schwarzwaelderin by Rudolf Epp.jpg. I don't know what bee the German WP had in its bonnet about not transferring it to Commons. The artist has been dead for well over 100 years, and Commons has loads of paintings by him. It could even go the infobox at the head of the article with an appropriate caption. It's also from a period roughly contemporary with the operetta. Voceditenore (talk) 09:32, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent, thanks V. I think the one on German wiki was a bit less blurry so given the fact that you uploaded one copy with correct licensing info I uploaded the German-wiki version on top of it. Thanks for taking the time to find a copy online, upload it, and figure out the copyright release format -- not my favorite thing to do. :-) Softlavender (talk) 09:44, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Should have credited the photographer, though. I'll copy over. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:30, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Input needed re Template:WikiProject Opera

I'd like to request an edit to the edit-protected Template:WikiProject Opera (the one that goes on the talk page of all the articles in our scope), but wanted to run this past members first. I'd like to have Draft class added. Like the List class, it wouldn't require a further quality rating. This would help us to keep track of opera-related drafts and make it easier for the Articles for Creation reviewers to ask for specialist advice on whether the draft should be moved to article space, declined pending improvement, or incinerated. Any objections? Voceditenore (talk) 07:38, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Seems sensible to me.--Smerus (talk) 07:46, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No objections here. I think that would be very helpful, although I'm not sure how drafters would know that such a banner/template should be applied. Also, drafts are not supposed to be categorised (see WP:DRAFTS); is it OK to have categories on their talk pages? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:11, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Michael, the drafters themselves almost certainly wouldn't do it. The banners would be added either by AfC reviewers or by us when we check the new article bot listings. It now lists newly created drafts too, e.g. Draft:The Ring: Solti recording and Draft:Selcuk Cara. It's OK to have project categories on draft talk pages, they're not the same as article categories on the draft itself. Several projects have already added the Draft parameter to their templates. Voceditenore (talk) 11:05, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like a great idea. Go for it!4meter4 (talk) 12:42, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]


2015 BBC Cardiff Singer of the World competition

Someone has created Nadine Koutcher (the winner) today. It's a two-sentence stub that could use... er... considerable expansion. I swapped out the ever-ghastly {{infobox Musical artist}} for the more tasteful {{Infobox person}}. I've created a stub which also needs expansion for Jongmin Park, who won the Song Prize.

Meanwhile, it appears that an article has existed since 2012 for the chap who won the Dame Joan Sutherland Audience Prize, but it's currently got a Mongolian-style title, Enkhbatyn Amartüvshin (patronymic first). Not sure how appropriate that is. Anyhow, I've created a redirect for the name he's known by in European opera houses, Amartuvshin Enkhbat. Maybe should be the other way 'round?

I had rather fancied Oleksiy Palchykov, a Ukranian tenor who already has a significant career and won the first heat, but I gather he wasn't loud enough. Voceditenore (talk) 14:03, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Mongolian guy was by far the best in the competition. We will hear a lot more of him; definitely keep the article under one title or other. Koutcher a knock-out in terms of technique but void of personality. Palchykov will do well on some kind of '3 Tenors' circuit, I'm sure. Park gave the best individual performance last night with the slander song.--Smerus (talk) 15:52, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh it's definitely appropriate to have an article on the Mongolian. I was just questioning the appropriateness of its current title. Having said that, the article could use clean up and better referencing. Voceditenore (talk) 16:24, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
PS Rupert Christiansen said "I was much more taken by the sweet-toned tousle-haired Ukrainian tenor Oleksiy Palchykov, whose 'Una furtiva lagrima' showed bags of the charm in short supply elsewhere." At least someone agrees with me, Smerus . Voceditenore (talk) 16:51, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • More info (if needed and if folks don't already have these): Since BBC TV iPlayer is only viewable from the UK, but BBC Radio iPlayer is listenable worldwide, here are the radio programmes listenable from anywhere, online:
  1. Highlights of the early stages, 16–19 June (four parts; they expire approximately 16 July)
  2. Finals, aired 19–21 June (two parts; expires approximately 18 July)
Can post these on article talk page(s) as well, if desired. They can also provide citations for missing information.
-- Softlavender (talk) 12:12, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Save Les Paladins (musical company) from speedy deletion

This article was recently created, probably by someone with a conflict of interest. However, it is a notable baroque ensemble with a discography. It is worth rescuing from speedy deletion if anyone has time.4meter4 (talk) 22:56, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

With a name like User:Lespaladins, yep. They're blocked now per WP:CORPNAME. Anyhow, the deleting administrator kindly restored it for me (I was working on it when it was deleted). Apart from the promotionalism and lack of referencing, it was simply chunks from the (very garbled) English version of their website. Anyhow, it's OK now as a referenced stub with 5 incoming links. I'm not sure how long the French Wikipedia version is going to last. But that's their problem. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 09:33, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for an excellent rescue. If I weren't swamped with summer graduate classes I would have lended a hand. You are a treasure.4meter4 (talk) 11:45, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Aida images

I've done some work to fix it, but Aida had major image problems, to whit, images were completely inappropriately positioned: 19th century images in the section on the 20th century and vice-versa; Images placed next to the wrong act, and so on. I've tried to fix it, but there's still issues:

Here's the images I think are most valuable, and should stay:

  • Very early vocal score
    Very early vocal score
  • Set design, Cairo premiere, Act 1 sc. 2.
    Set design, Cairo premiere, Act 1 sc. 2.
  • Set design, Cairo premiere, Act 2, sc. 2.
    Set design, Cairo premiere, Act 2, sc. 2.
  • Amneris costume (La Scale premiere)
    Amneris costume (La Scale premiere)

And the second tier (valuable, but not as:

  • Verdi conducting
    Verdi conducting
  • Very nice contemporary opera production photo. Best of the contemporary photos.
    Very nice contemporary opera production photo. Best of the contemporary photos.
  • Teresa Stolz
    Teresa Stolz
  • Featured picture (one of mine). Good illustration of the triumphal march.
    Featured picture (one of mine). Good illustration of the triumphal march.

There's also File:Aida trumpets.jpg which I'm not sure of the value of, but am willing to be convinced.

Should I just reduce to those, and the sound files (useful to give an idea of the music) and cut the rest? The rest are either poorly attributed, or rather poorly shot (e.g. File:Auguste mariette - croquis pour la première d'Aïda.jpg WOULD be valuable, but it's very poorly cropped and reproduced, and I think that too low quality of images can make us look a little too amateur. Adam Cuerden (talk) 04:33, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have done this. Shows a few things we could illustrate better; I have a plan. Adam Cuerden (talk) 12:10, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a ninth image to the set, and replaced the Amneris costume image with a full-colour drawing of the La Scala production. Think it has good variety of images now. Adam Cuerden (talk) 11:59, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Voice classification for contemporary roles

On articles that list roles by voice type, the only source cited is Guide to Operatic Roles and Arias, and there are very few roles from contemporary opera listed. Is there a good source for classifying roles from more contemporary opera composers like Philip Glass, Harrison Birtwistle or Kaija Saariaho?SpiritedMichelle (talk) 19:08, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi SpiritedMichelle. For contemporary works, the music publisher usually has authoritative information. See for example, Boosey & Hawkes's description of Birtwistle's The Minotaur here and Chester Music here for Philip Glass's Appomattox. You can also take as authoritative any voice type descriptions which appear on a composer's official website, liner notes if the opera has been recorded, or opera house programs, particularly if it was for the world premiere production. Voceditenore (talk) 19:41, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright Violation Detection - EranBot Project

A new copy-paste detection bot is now in general use on English Wikipedia. Come check it out at the EranBot reporting page. This bot utilizes the Turnitin software (ithenticate), unlike User:CorenSearchBot that relies on a web search API from Yahoo. It checks individual edits rather than just new articles. Please take 15 seconds to visit the EranBot reporting page and check a few of the flagged concerns. Comments welcome regarding potential improvements. These likely copyright violations can be searched by WikiProject categories. Use "control-f" to jump to your area of interest.--Lucas559 (talk) 23:00, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

FA for 2017 main page- Don Carlos

I know the project has already selected Don Carlos for next month's 'Composer of the Month' section. I thought I might point out that the 150th anniversary of the opera is on March 11, 2017 which is not all that far off. Perhaps a concerted effort could be made to get this article up to FA class in time to appear on the main page on that date. Best.4meter4 (talk) 01:40, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have a couple good images for it.... Adam Cuerden (talk) 06:26, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Getting Giuseppe Verdi to GA

OK I've now created a full(ish) version of the article but am feeling brain-dead. Please look and comment - is it now appropriate to go for peer review - or even for GA review?--Smerus (talk) 10:21, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It looks pretty solid. I haven't checked everything though. I'll probably go in and tweak the images - I think they look better with a bit more consistent sizing. On the whole, though, it's very solid looking, and I can't imagine that GA review would hurt it at all: Either it will pass, or some minor issues will be raised (and fixed). I'd rather peer review after GA: This is getting near FA-quality; I think we can push it through fairly easy.
One thing I notice: There's a lot of Harvard reference errors in the references; This appears to be of the not-very-serious variant where there's a minor setup issue. E.g. "Budden 1993" (ref. 109) says it has no reference to link to, but there's clearly a Budden 1993 in the list, as anyone looking themselves will see - it'll be something minor. I'll work to fix that later on. There may be one or two typos/missing references - I note a Budden 1996 (reference 108, et al) which has nothing to link to (is it meant to be Brook 1996?), hence why checking for Harv cite errors is useful - but I'll have a full list once I'm done tweaking. Adam Cuerden (talk) 10:59, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Smerus: Okay, here's the referencing errors:

Rosselli 2000 does not exist. No obvious correction. (used a lot)
Rosselli 2004 does not exist. No obvious correction. (used a lot)
From the list, Rosselli, John (1997). The life of Verdi. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press... does exist, but is not used.
Parker 1988a does not exist; probably Parker 1998a?
Possibly related - or possibly not - from the list, Parker, Roger (2007a). The New Grove Guide to Verdi and His Operas. is not used.
Budden 1994a does not exist, may be 1984a.
Chusid 1991 does not exist. (uncertain correction)
Chusid 1983 does not exist. (uncertain correction)
Reference 74 lacks a year.
Osborne 1992 does not exist.
Budden 1996 does not exist (used several times) - May be meant to be Brook 1996 or one of the other Buddens?
From the list, Brook (ed.), Stephen (1996). Opera: A Penguin Anthology. not used
Berlin 1969 does not exist. May be 1979?
From the list, Gossett, Philip (2008). Divas and Scholars: Performing Italian Opera. is not used
From the list, Kelly, Thomas Forrest (2004). First Nights at the Opera. is not used.
From the list, Petrobelli, Pierluigi (2001). "Giuseppe Verdi (1813 - 1901)". Istituto di studi verdiani. is not used.

I can't fix any of these without access to the sources to check the references - it's not clear, and we don't want to get this fixed wrong. Adam Cuerden (talk) 11:35, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No problems, now you have pointed out I will fix. Very many thanks for this spotting.--Smerus (talk) 16:29, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done now I think. Just my sloppy typing. But I have checked all with the references I have by me. Do please deal with the images as you feel appropriate.--Smerus (talk) 17:16, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Verdi now up for GA

For those who are interested, Giuseppe Verdi is now up for GA - anyone is welcome to start the review. Best, --Smerus (talk) 10:31, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Smerus. We humans tend to be responsive animals, reacting to what we see/ hear/ read – I've quickly eyeballed your major rewrite of the Verdi article, but find myself merely reacting to what you have written, and I need some time to step back and consider the structure/ balance of the article, and to note on a shirt cuff what I might expect to see in an article on Verdi. I've thrown in a half-dozen minor copy-edits, but will take time to come back with something fuller anon. Scarabocchio (talk) 13:16, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
One thing that will be be in my comments is the lede -- the introduction of Wagner into the lede has always rankled. If it is worth mentioning that "Wagner and Verdi are the two pre-eminent composers of the 19th century" inside the Verdi lede, surely it should be added to the Wager lede too? It should be in both, or neither. Scarabocchio (talk) 13:24, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Noted, thanks. There is a lot of thrashing about of the images at the moment which is waiting to settle down - I'd be interested if people are willing for some comments on the visual inpact as well, although of course the information content is key. I agree re Wagner and will reconsider this.--Smerus (talk) 18:31, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
On the visual side, I have to admit to a sneaking liking for some of the Viva-Verdi pictures that were new to me ... images that you would not see if you were restricted to one or two pictures per section because they are always the third or fourth choice. Perhaps we could follow the example of the Encyclopédie and have a separate volume (article) of illustrations, perhaps a timeline for Verdi's life, with maps of the political state of Italy through his life, a few words on the key events shaping the political and cultural landscapes in the countries in which he was active, and the images left over from the Verdi article... One of the WPs does this sort of contextual article, perhaps the Italian? Scarabocchio (talk) 19:49, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I will look at this. I reworded the lead slightly about Wagner. But on consideration, the thing is this (it appears to me): whilst Wagner was virtually never in his time compared with Verdi, Verdi was frequently compared with Wagner and his use (or absence of use) of Wagnerian techniques was frequently commented on. This is mentioned in the article; and I think therefore that Wagner does merit a passing reference in the Verdi lead, but not vice-versa.--Smerus (talk) 20:08, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Btw I will just remind all concerned about the criteria for GA - they are not too forensic!--Smerus (talk) 21:11, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Arundel Festival

Hi all. Just noticed we don't have an article on the Arundel Festival which does produce opera among other arts. I'm not from the UK and know nothing about it. Anyone care to take a crack at creating an article?4meter4 (talk) 21:31, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

From an opera point of view, it's not really important. Here's the blurb for this year's festival. What they have opera-wise is this outfit performing stuff like Così fan tutte with a small orchestra in one of the rooms of Arundel Castle, although not every year. Voceditenore (talk) 15:31, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. I had thought maybe there was more happening there in the past as Iain Hamilton's Lancelot had its world premiere there in 1985.4meter4 (talk) 17:08, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

AfD: Judit Kutasi

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Judit Kutasi. Voceditenore (talk) 17:54, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing Attila B. Kiss

Hi all. I just came across a new poorly conceived article which I have been cleaning up. I am having a bit of trouble finding references for tenor Attila B. Kiss (often given as Atilla Kiss B.; Opera magazine specifically says it should be Atilla B. Kiss) which was recently created by another editor with no references. He has won two notable prizes (although there are no sources for this), so notability is probably not an issue. That said, everything I've come across so far other than one mention in a review in Opera seems to be press releases from the opera houses which include his bio most likely written by his agent. Another issue I've come across is when the article was created the author describes him as Hungarian even though he was born in Romania, trained in Romania, and made his professional debut in Romania (according to the Hungarian wikipedia which entirely unreferenced). He has been working primarily at the Hungarian State Opera House in recent years and he is from a part of Romania that used to be part of Hungary, so I suppose its possible that he became a Hungarian citizen and that he may be of Hungarian ethnic descent. For the time being I changed the article to Romanian until a source can prove otherwise. Any help sourcing or expanding this stub would be helpful.4meter4 (talk) 03:12, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a ref for the prizes. He was also awarded the Order of Merit of the Republic of Hungary. And, he appeared in a fairly major film of Erkel's opera Bánk bán, singing the title role (ref added). If he was awarded the Order of Merit of the Republic of Hungary, he is probably of Hungarian nationality now, but I'm removing the Nationality parameter from the infobox. Without a reliable source, nothing should be listed. It's not a place for guesswork. Voceditenore (talk) 14:44, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Sounds good.4meter4 (talk) 23:32, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Clean up of a likely COI created article

Although VOICExperience Foundation is not the worst COI creation I've ever seen, it does need some help. At least the author took the time to add some good references to the article, even if the tone is somewhat unencyclopedic. It needs categories and cleanup. Best.4meter4 (talk) 05:36, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There's no evidence of any independent notice having been taken of this organization in the press. There are zillions of these young singer workshops. The "best" reference is a puff-piece in Classical Singer. As a stand-alone article it would never survive an AfD. Particularly inappropriate was the list of their former students and their subsequent employment, not one of whom has an article or appears to be notable, despite this program being 15 years old. The references for the singers merely verify their performances elsewhere, not that they studied with the program. I have created a brief, factual section (minus the puffery) in the article about Milnes and have redirected the page to Sherrill Milnes#VOICExperience Foundation. Voceditenore (talk) 09:02, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Good plan. I agree that a redirect is the best decision. Perhaps we should place a COI note on the talk page of the user who created the article.4meter4 (talk) 17:02, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Frequently performed (female) opera composers

I have added a column for composer gender to the new table of Frequently performed opera composers despite my incurable gender-blindness, and feeling that gender is given too much weight in general. I'm with Thea Musgrave on this one ("Thea Musgrave is frequently interviewed and questioned about being a "woman" composer, to which she has replied; "Yes, I am a woman; and I am a composer. But rarely at the same time." (her website, at some time in the past)). That said, composers of the female gender are a very high-profile topic at the moment, and some readers may wish to know how they fare in numbers and rankings compared with the composers of the male gender. Scarabocchio (talk) 12:59, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think the biggest obstacle to female opera composers in the past was that it was the most expensive type of musical composition to put on, and thus had the biggest obstacles from prejudices. I'd like to think those barriers have, at least, somewhat been pulled down now. I think this is why specific efforts to rescue from obscurity works by female composers of the past is valuable. Otherwise... think it's very easy to fetishize it, and that's patronizing itself. For example I think that Ethel Smyth should be performed more often. This is because I've heard her music, and it's quite good, and has a distinct voice. It's hard to judge Smyth perfectly, though - she has a lot of works not even recorded. I'm pretty sure there are masses of worse works than Smyth with far more prominence. Adam Cuerden (talk) 13:24, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Scarabocchio! That's really useful and will come in handy in March (Women's History Month), when the CoM has been a woman composer for the last few years. March 2014 and 2015 was Musgrave and March 2013 was Ethel Smyth. That one was particularly successful, resulting in the creation of articles for her Fantasio, Der Wald, Fête Galante, and Entente Cordiale. Voceditenore (talk) 15:12, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like there are two women composers on the list that wikipedia doesn't have articles on: Elisabeth Naske (along with the operas Die feuerrote Friederike and Die Omama im Apfelbaum) and Lynne Plowman (along with the operas Gwyneth and the Green Knight, House of the Gods, The Face in the Mirror, and Captain Blood’s Revenge). One of them would make a great composer of the month for March 2016.4meter4 (talk) 17:07, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Re: Smyth. It looks from this page, that the Boatswain's Mate is to be recorded this autumn. They'll be using the chamber orchestration used in last year's performances (in German, alas) in Lucerne. I remember the libretto (by Smyth herself) as comparable to Gilbert on a good day, so this will be one to look out for. An interesting sentence on that page: "There is no doubt that, with the general boom in women’s music, and the fact that her music goes out of copyright next year (2015), we will be hearing a lot more of Smyth in the future." It also just happens(?) that it is the work's centenary next January. Scarabocchio (talk) 19:05, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That would be a nice project for an FA, though it does face issues of more material coming out as it gets nearer. Adam Cuerden (talk) 19:11, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Adam, if you are serious, have a look at these pages for the Ethel Smyth Research Centre, created in Detmold after the 2008 festival to mark the 150th anniversary of her birth. In addition, the people behind Retrospect Opera, those making the recording, sound as if they would be amenable to sharing what they have. En passant, the toothbrush used to conduct her March of the Women, quoted in the overture and relevant to the plot, is in a display case of Suffragette items in the Museum of London. Scarabocchio (talk) 19:31, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Re: Naske. Not forgetting her 2014 Der satanarchäolügenialkohöllische Wunschpunsch ... Scarabocchio (talk) 19:34, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Opera of the Month proposal

Hi all. I just noticed that The Taming of the Shrew (opera) actually links to a section on opera adaptations in the wikipedia article about the play. There are many operas that have been based on Shakespear's The Taming of the Shrew, most of which have no articles on wikipedia. I would suggest that we create articles on the operas mentioned in the article on the play. Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:59, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"John Kendrick Bangs' Katherine: A Travesty (1888) is a Gilbert and Sullivan-style parody operetta which premiered in the Metropolitan Opera" - why am I suspicious of that "Gilbert and Sullivan-style" description? Burlesques and travesties long predate Gilbert, indeed, he got his start doing them. On the other hand, H.M.S. Pinafore madness is documented in America at around that time, so it's not an impossible influence... Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:25, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

    • Ah, this makes more sense: It was a burlesque with some songs based off of pre-extant Gilbert and Sullivan numbers.[5] Not quite the same thing, but at least in the ballpark. Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:27, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway, back to the original. I think step one is figuring out which ones were more than flashes in the pan - or, at least, big enough flashes in the pan to be worth an article. There's a few possibilities we could pull out of there, though. Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:31, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I personally have an interest in writing on Vittorio Giannini's The Taming of the Shrew (1953), and Dominick Argento's Christopher Sly (1963); both of which have had more than one staging. I know nothing about the others, but the article indicates that Ruperto Chapí's Las bravías was incredibly popular so there must be quite a lot of material for that opera as well. Best.4meter4 (talk) 23:24, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Request for semi-protection at Whistle Register?

Please read and comment at Talk:Whistle register#Request for semi-protection? 4meter4 (talk) 03:17, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I feel your pain, 4meter4, but in my experience, requests for semi-protection are generally only granted if the page has been subjected to IP/new user vandalism on an almost daily basis for a lengthy period or if it has been subject to serious BLP violations. They won't apply it to articles like this where people "in good faith" add poor or unreferenced material. My suggestion would be that several of us put the article on watch and remove any inappropriate additions with an edit summary explaining the reason for the removal. It's also a good idea not to simply "undo", which triggers the red notice to the person who has added the material and invites a return to a page they may not even be watching after the drive-by edit. Better to open the editing window and remove the problematic material manually. I've edited the edit notice to:
<!--Please do NOT add examples of singers who use the Whistle register without a reliable cited source verifying it. ALL unreferenced additions will be removed.-->
I've also moved it to the top of that section for greater visibility. Voceditenore (talk) 17:41, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for clearing that up and lending a hand.4meter4 (talk) 23:31, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Musician notability discussion

Members may want to comment at Wikipedia talk:Notability (music)#Proposal to remove "Has won or placed in a major music competition." from "from Criteria for musicians and ensembles". – Voceditenore (talk) 17:16, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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