Talk:China

Why the article China is mixed with The People's Republic of China

I just want to see the article China, but I find that it's mixed with The People's Republic of China. Why? When we say 中國 (China), we mean 中國 (China), not the People's Republic of China. The history of 中國 (China), is not the history of the People's Republic of China. The culture of 中國 (China), is not the culture of the People's Republic of China. The art of 中國 (China), is not the art of the People's Republic of China..... Can the article The People's Republic of China itself be created, so we can have the article China? --一二十 (talk) 16:19, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

By the way, even in today, besides the People's Republic of China, there is the Republic of China. So how can People's Republic of China = China? Even in politics, China does not mean a dynasty/state/government, but all dynasties/states/governments of China. --一二十 (talk) 16:26, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

See the 'Frequently asked questions' section at the top of this page. When people say 'China' in English, they normally mean the PRC. William Avery (talk) 16:48, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me. I think it needs rediscussion, because there is no article China (中國) in English version, only the article of China (中國) mixed with People's Republic of China. The article China (中國) is needed. --一二十 (talk) 16:54, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

This article is on China, the country. Which is also/more formally called the People's Republic of China. But they are the same thing. 'China' is the common name.

If you are looking for Chinese history then there's the History of China, which links to many other articles on Chinese history topics. --JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 17:04, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

OK, thanks. But I do not simply want see the History of China, but the whole of China, a complete China. I think many people is the same. So why shouldn't there be the article China? --一二十 (talk)

I don't agree. PRC should be called Mainland China. China includes both Mainland China and Taiwan. It is because "some" people got confused between China and Mainland China, and this confusion propagated to Wikipedia. Some people love China but hate PRC or ROC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Angelababy00 (talk • contribs) 02:55, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

The problem with that is "Mainland China" is a term seldom used outside of greater China. i.e. people use it in Hong Kong, Taiwan to refer to the PRC but otherwise it's not commonly used or understood. And you can like a country but not like its government – I think that's a common attitude throughout the world. If you mean "love China", thinking of China as an entity including the PRC and ROC then that's not a real state at the moment but an ideal. It does have a name and article, Greater China, but like Mainland China it's a concept and name largely restricted to the territories it contains. To most of the world the states are Taiwan and China, together with SARs Hong Kong and Macau.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 03:50, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

China is a concept. The states are PRC and ROC. The concept, China, includes Mainland and Taiwan. It also refers to its history or culture. It is like Britain or British Empire. You have UK as the state. England as part of UK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marschina (talk • contribs) 06:07, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

China is the common name of the PRC. Go to the BBC's China news page and you can see headline after headline where 'China' is used for the PRC. As I type the lead headline is "China executes two cult killers" and it's perfectly clear what it means, as it is in the dozen or more other headlines with "China" in them. I picked the BBC for their comprehensive coverage but could have picked probably any English language news source outside of China itself.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 06:22, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I don't think it is the correct usage of China. Newspapers or news agency are known to make mistakes and this misnaming of China as PRC continues with the western tradition. It is like saying Britain is UK and UK is Britain. Why does the wikipedia create a disambiguation page for Britain and not just direct the user to UK if you type Britain in the search box? I think for BBC it is mere convenience to refer to China then PRC because not many UK readers know the difference and history about PRC, ROC and Chinese history. It does not mean that BBC's usage is correct. I think it is better to stop disseminating the mistake and create a China disambiguation page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marschina (talk • contribs) 06:36, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

We follow what sources say and the BBC is one of many sources that support using "China" for the country. If you want to change it you'll need sources yourself, to support your assertion that it is a mistake.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 06:51, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I am quoting the Wikipedia source 1992 Consensus where both PRC and ROC are trying to claim that they are China. I quote the 1992 Consensus on the "one China principle": both PRC and ROC recognise there is only one "China" - both mainland China and Taiwan belong to the same China! So, this should be the official stance of Wikipedia on the issue about China, not the Western media common usage which is for readers who are unfamiliar with China. I think the web page on China is also not correct to say OFFICIALLY China is PRC and OFFICIALLY Taiwan is ROC!!! Who recognizes OFFICIALLY China is PRC? On what authority does the OFFICIAL comes from? If it is official, China should refer to Mainland China and Taiwan according to the 1992 Consensus. I think it is more accurate to say that many western media refer China to PRC (this is done only for those who do not know China). For the Chinese people, it may be an insult to say that China is officially PRC because PRC does not represent them. The PRC is a dictatorship regime and so it does not represent the Chinese people, not even the people who live in Mainland China. Like Angelababy00, may be a lot of people like China but dislike PRC or ROC states. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marschina (talk • contribs) 07:15, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

If the encyclopedia is compiled or hosted by United Nations, I'll have no problem that People's Republic of China = China politically, since there has always been only one representative government of China in a single time, and now it recognizes only the People's Republic of China. But it's not a fact there is only one state of China. There are two states (republics) with the name China, although Republic of China is not recognized by UN and many states in the world. And, actually, when we say 中國 (China), we mostly often do not mean it politically. When we say we love China, we do not mean we love the People's Republic of China. That’s totally two different kinds of meanings, concepts and phrases. --一二十 (talk) 17:11, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps you should have brought your opinions forward during the page move discussion that took place during 2011. It's too late for this now, community consensus has already established the PRC as the primary topic of "China", and this discussion is rather unlikely to be going anywhere. If you were to propose a page move, I really doubt that you can gain consensus. --benlisquare_T•C•E 05:30, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

When we look at the history between 1911 and 1949 (before PRC), Republic of China was China, and ROC includes both the Mainland China and Taiwan. So, PRC can only be Mainland China. It cannot be China. In 1990s, the PRC government representative and ROC government representative agreed that each state should interpret its own meaning of China, but both consider that China includes Mainland China and Taiwan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Angelababy00 (talk • contribs) 03:23, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I should add that consensus can change, and it appears that this consensus is moving slowly more and more towards the decided outcome of the move decision. That is to say that what at the time was highly controversial, is becoming less and less controversial, so if you wish to request a move, you may find a time machine helpful. - Metal lunchbox ^(talk) 03:53, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Two questions: 1) what do you mean "I do not simply want see the History of China, but the whole of China, a complete China."? What would be on this "complete China" page that isn't on this page or the History of China page? 2) more importantly, what relevance does the usage of Chinese words in the Chinese language by Chinese speakers have to the usage of the English word "China" in the English language by English speakers? --Khajidha (talk) 13:09, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm Chinese and I can confirm that when we say "China" in Chinese we do mean "People's Republic of China". If we want to refer to "Republic of China", we simply say "Taiwan". It's completely the same usage with English speakers. --JesseW900 (talk) 20:24, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I disagree. My Chinese friend told me that they refer to PRC as Mainland China (not China) and ROC as Taiwan. China includes both Mainland China and Taiwan. Probably, you are from PRC and wants PRC to become China. I think this page should be called Mainland China. Or if this page remains to be called China, then it should state clearly that China is now splitted into Mainland China (PRC) and Taiwan (ROC). This would stop the confusion and the incorrect designation that PRC is China.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Angelababy00 (talk • contribs) 03:01, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

If we go with the logic of the 2011 page move discussion, then shouldn't the corresponding pages in Chinese, French, Spanish, etc. all be moved too? There is a huge number of these pages that describe the general cultural concept "China", and by having this page, it would be NPOV and a reader would quickly see that Two Chinas actually exist and be educated instead of this fact being hidden. The fact that corresponding "English" version of this article doesn't exist is simply odd..., and suspect I think. Mistakefinder (talk) 21:28, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Each Wikimedia project has a separate community, local ruleset and site consensus, what happens on one language Wikipedia project does not extend to another. If anything is to be changed on the French and other Wikipedias, a local RfC needs to take place on that site. The local consensus at enwiki might be based on the 2011 discussion, but established consensus elsewhere is still different. --benlisquare_T•C•E 02:24, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Don't forget that the articles on the other wikipedia have also some discussions. I'm hardy try to change to situation on wp:fr, wp:de have also some discussions (I don't read german). --Nouill (talk) 02:12, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I donnot see any necessary to merger the two terms into one. I never see any notice about no enough space on the site web server. I think there are enough space for articles. We all know that, in time, China is consisted of many dynasties. The Republic of China and The People's Republic of China are only two dynasties(or state dominating China, equivilant to dynasty) of all dynasties. And it's an undeniable fact that The Republic of China and The People's Republic of China exist at the same time at present, no matter what opinions towards them there may be. It's obvious that, China = All dynasties (states) of China ≠ The Republic of China ≠ The People's Republic of China. Each needs to have its own article. -一二十 (talk) 07:32, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Republic of China does have a discrete article - Taiwan Simonm223 (talk) 02:35, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

China now the largest economy

According to the IMF, China is now the worlds largest economy in terms of purchasing power parity. Someone should update this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flipm (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

The Russian ruble is accepted as valid tender in Suifenhe, China

Chinese government allows to use both the Russian ruble and the yuan, in Suifenhe, China as a legal tender. It is the first time in the history of PRC when the usage of a foreign currency as a payment for goods and services is allowed on its territory. I suggest to add the Russian ruble to the list of currencies along with the yuan in the same fashion as it's done for Panama and US dollar, but with a footnote that its usage is only allowed in a certain region. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.141.26 (talk • contribs) 11:24, November 26, 2014

both nominal total GDP and purchasing power parity

China is number one by both nominal total GDP and purchasing power parity not number two. Please edit ????. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swax2 (talk • contribs) 16:44, December 19, 2014

Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2015

Hi, I just wanted to change the description of China (mainland China) from the second largest economy to the first. Example (current form) "As of 2013, it is the world's second-largest economy by both nominal total GDP and purchasing power parity (PPP), and is also the world's largest exporter and importer of goods.[21]" to (proposed form) According to International Monetary Fund (IMF) as of 2014, it is the world's largest economy by purchasing power parity (PPP) and second largest in nominal total GDP, and is also the world's largest exporter and importer of goods.[21]

Many reliable sources have already claimed China as the largest Economy by PPP including: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30483762 http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2015/01/china-worlds-largest-economy http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/12/06/china-surpasses-us-to-become-largest-world-economy/ http://www.economist.com/news/essays/21609649-china-becomes-again-worlds-largest-economy-it-wants-respect-it-enjoyed-centuries-past-it-does-not http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/12/07/chinas-now-the-world-number-one-economy-and-it-doesnt-matter-a-darn/

-Solstice8088

Solstice8088 (talk) 07:37, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

The IMF's 2014 stats are still estimates/projections, not the actual figures like the 2013 stats. Stickee (talk) 11:01, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 15:30, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2015

PRC redirects to this page. Please put information about that in the hatnote at the top of the page to let viewers of the page know because they might be searching for other things with the name "PRC" (in organizations, biology, politics, etc.). 174.29.75.144 (talk) 23:37, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

It's already there -

"This article is about the People's Republic of China. For the Republic of China, see Taiwan. For other uses, see China (disambiguation) and PRC (disambiguation)." Cannolis (talk) 01:11, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Socialist state

So I'm going to bring this up again. China IS NOT a socialist state, nor a communist one, but a state capitalist one. This is universally agreed by all capitalists and anti-catpailists. China revolves around Maoism, which is a derivative of Marxism-Leninism, which is universally accepted to be state capitalism. It seems previously this was agreed within the achieves, but the article no longer goes along with the talk page consensus. DocHeuh (talk) 02:28, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

This is not an article on Falun Gong

Notwithstanding certain editor's zeal for attacking the current government of china over the dispute between the cult and the communist party, this article is about China as a whole. As such, an accumulation of unnecessary detail regarding the various claims and counter-claims regarding the Falun Gong are out of place here. We have articles about the cult just for that. With respect to WP:DUE can we please keep extraneous details to a minimum? Simonm223 (talk) 23:15, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Agree. The organ harvesting claims are undue imo.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 23:59, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

This isn't the first time this has happened, so I'm not surprised that this is going on again. I'd rather not have the article's quality become significantly degraded because editors with a political axe to grind are intent on forcing their undue content on this page, it's taken a long time and lot of hard work amongst plenty of editors for us to reach this far. If anyone remembers this article from 2009, it was a horribly written one. --benlisquare_T•C•E 08:19, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

I walked away from trying to keep the Falun Gong pages and the organ harvesting pages under control as keeping those in some semblance of WP:NPOV is a constant and unending struggle. I'm not willing to walk away from core China articles. They're too important. I am still of the opinion that both the Kilgour / Mattas report and Ethan Guttman's book are no more reliable for the fraught matter of Chinese organ transplantation than the China Daily would be. They're misled by an aggressive misinformation campaign at best, propaganda at worst. Simonm223 (talk) 11:13, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

The Persecution of Falun Gong has been happening since 1999. Because there were 70 million practitioners in China its significant. The CCP doesn't just persecute practitioners it also affects family members. Persecution of Falun Gong is a comprehensive wiki article with 161 references. I see no reason why there shouldn't be a paragraph about the persecution of Falun Gong in the China article.Aaabbb11 (talk) 13:30, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Almost all of which depend on Kilgour / Mattas or FLG claims to support them, while authors like Kavan who have discussed how the FLG uses claims of persecution as a mechanism of driving group cohesion and how practicioners have been instructed by Li Hongzhi to lie to journalists regarding FLG teachings, especially the bits about aliens and the straight-up racism have been sidelined or removed. And you know what? I'm past caring about that disaster area of a propaganda job. But it's not spreading to the China article. Simonm223 (talk) 13:36, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Aaabbb11, this is a general country article. All sorts of things might have happened, however that is not what this article is for. It is not a catch-all article that covers all remotely-related topics, nor an indiscriminate repository of all information that falls within a certain bracket; rather, it is an article that deals with a very large topic, and there is much more to the topic of "China" than politics. These articles are supposed to cover geography, history, economy, demographics, society, and the much broader topics that cover the central topic of "China". Forcing in a disproportionate amount of niche information specific to one subtopic constitutes WP:UNDUE, and it's for the same reason why the India article doesn't have huge chunks of content dedicated to curry samosas (they belong in the Indian cuisine article), and why the South Korea article doesn't have huge chunks of content related to e-sports (they belong in the Korean e-Sports Association article). In your case, your new additions belongs in Human rights in China or Falun Gong, but definitely not here.

There has been longstanding community consensus that country articles should not be inundated with politics-centred content, and if you continue to disbalance the POV of an article by shifting the due coverage of content away from neutrality, then I'm afraid you are the one who is violating Wikipedia's core principles, policies and guidelines. --benlisquare_T•C•E 14:06, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

The Persecution of Falun Gong is a very serious and current human rights issue in China, not politics. There is only one link on the article to Amnesty and its dead. So the article would appear to need updating. Never heard of e sports before, but thanks for the info.Aaabbb11 (talk) 17:25, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm getting the feeling that I'm talking to a wall here, so if you're not willing to compromise then I have no choice but to give up. It doesn't matter how noble your brilliant cause is, you need to adhere to WP:UNDUE. If the persecution of FLG is a serious human rights issue in China, then your content belongs in human rights in China, which means that you've essentially helped me answer your own questions. And before you play the "but it's an important issue" card, keep in mind that your past actions involve forcing in a WP:NOTNEWS sentence about Jiang Zemin dating back to 2009 which has little to no lasting impact on the wider topic, in addition to edit warring over wording without even discussing the issue properly. --benlisquare_T•C•E 18:22, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Edits such as this [1] walk a very fine line with regard to Wikipedia's policies on tendentious editing. When you've just been advised, at some length, that there is a long-standing community consensus that inserting Falun Gong related content is not in keeping with WP:DUE to give the Falun Gong their own section as your very next edit is... well, it's difficult to assume good faith although I'm really trying. Simonm223 (talk) 13:08, 31 March 2015 (UTC)