Talk:Sexism

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Alexpiersonn (article contribs).

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 8 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): DayliseAllen (article contribs).

Bias sources and, dictionaries as sources

I have observed that *most* of the sources cited were published by people with a clear existing bias, or conflict of interest.

I also notice that the sources cited are often identical dictionary definitions, and the dictionary definitions themselves are sexist. I am not sure when they changed to the wording they currently have, but I don't believe it was always so. The problem is that dictionaries themselves use other dictionaries as sources.

We know from experience, having seen it happen several times in the last 20 years, that a single original source opinion, true or not, can get picked up and republished many times, until it becomes a systemic fact.

So two questions: - Is there an easy way to check the chain of sources, to where a source originated? - How should we address the credibility of the opinions published, where clear conflict, or bias, is evident?

After all, in other areas, we work hard not too allow people with clear bias, to define the meaning of something. So why are we doing it here? brill (talk) 13:13, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Dictionary sources are not the only sources in the article that are clear that sexism is something that primarily affects girls and women. The literature as a whole is overwhelmingly clear about this. And I don't know what you mean about biased sources, but see what WP:BIASEDSOURCES state. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:40, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Removal of misinformation

EL C I request for the following misinformation to be removed from the respective categories.

War rape (1 item)

Sexual violence and rape are also committed against men during war and are often under-reported. Sexism plays a significant part in the difficulty that the survivors face coping with their victimization, especially in patriarchal cultures, and in the lack of support provided to men who have been raped.[250]

Education (2 items)

, blame and punishment

Writer Gerry Garibaldi has argued that the educational system has become "feminized", allowing girls more of a chance at success with a more "girl-friendly" environment in the classroom;[300] this is seen to hinder boys by punishing "masculine" behavior and diagnosing boys with behavioral disorders.[301] A recent study by the OECD in over 60 countries found that teachers give boys lower grades for the same work. The researchers attribute this to stereotypical ideas about boys and recommend teachers to be aware of this gender bias.[302]

Conscription (1 item)

In his book The Second Sexism: Discrimination Against Men and Boys (2012), philosopher David Benatar states that "[t]he prevailing assumption is that where conscription is necessary, it is only men who should be conscripted and, similarly, that only males should be forced into combat". This, he believes, "is a sexist assumption".[316]:102 Anthropologist Ayse Gül Altinay has commented that "given equal suffrage rights, there is no other citizenship practice that differentiates as radically between men and women as compulsory male conscription".[322]:34 78.144.186.199 (talk) 23:37, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

What are the grounds for the proposed removal of these multiple passages of sourced content besides the aforementioned, unexplained "misinformation"? El_C 23:41, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

They are not examples of sexism. EvergreenFir may have some links to numerous studies that assert as much, I wouldn't know where to begin searching, but I know that part of critical gender theory is the study of sexism. 78.144.186.199 (talk) 23:49, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

I don't actually know enough about the subject matter and have not reviewed the pertinent material, so I'll let other editors respond to your argument. El_C 00:14, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

As inappropriate as this and this edit were, I'll respond. Your statement in the latter diff that, "No academics who are members of, or otherwise aligned with Men's Rights Advocates, activists or organisations can be considered reliable as they have a vested interest in the rights and well being of men." suggests you significantly misunderstand WP:RS, WP:POV, and WP:DUE. Regardless of what we as editors think of MRA folks, we cannot dismiss them outright as "unreliable". We can call them WP:FRINGE though. Having a "vested interest in the rights and well being of men" does not make a person an MRA or anti-feminist or non-reliable as a source.

Regarding #1, Will Storr is a respected journalist with The Guardian. His writing would appear to satisfy WP:RS. What this portion does violate, however, is WP:NOR. The article cited does not mention sexism. That material better belongs in Rape by gender and Violence against men.

Regarding #2, I am not sure what the three words "blame and punishment" are about. But for the second part, as with #1, none of the sources call this "sexism". However, they do call it "gender bias", which, based on the rather reductive definition of "sexism" being used in this article, would qualify it for inclusion in my article.

Regarding #3, the opinion that this qualifies as sexism is attributed to the sources' authors and is not said in Wikivoice. As these authors are academics and not WP:FRINGE, it seems appropriate to include them here.

In all of these cases, I find myself agreeing with Digby, Johnson, Pascoe, and others that the gender-related violence men experience is primarily at the hands of other men and not the same as the gender-based violence men subject women to. Rather, it is a splashback and/or an enforcement of hierarchical masculinities and hegemonic masculinity. I would not personally call it sexism per se, but rather the product of violent patriarchy.

That said, my POV on this cannot override what other reliable sources say. And some of them argue that men do experience sexism. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:21, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

The information that was requested to be removed is written solely to support the rights and well being of men. This itself is a bias that breaches WP:POV, this non-neutral point of view is also a direct breach of WP:DUE. This is not an attack on men or you, this is an attempt to streamline the article by removing excessive unnecessary material. 78.144.184.30 (talk) 16:00, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

This article seems slightly to moderately biased

The article states that sexism predominantly affects females. While this may be true, there is little to no information about discrimination against males. Sexism works both ways. It says so in the beginning of the article. And yet, most of the article is biased towards females, which is sexist in it of itself. I feel as this article should be updated to include the issues regarding discrimination against males.

[I am not saying that either gender should gain more attention over the other] The Triple 6 Timer (talk) 04:09, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

We want to be balanced but we don’t want WP:FALSEBALANCE. If the sources focus more on sexism against women, and I believe they do, then that’s where our focus should be. WanderingWanda (talk) 04:53, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Sexism Is based on biological sex

Women aren't killed because they perform femininity. They are killed because they are females.

Women are not raped because they perform femininity. They are raped because they are females.

Women aren't forced into unwanted pregnancies because they perform femininity. They are forced because they are females.

Women aren't abused during childbirth because they perform femininity. They are abused because they are females.

Women aren't fired or not hired because they perform femininity. They are fired and not hired because they are females.

Women aren't allowed highest education because they perform femininity. They aren't because they are females.

Women aren't paid less.. Women don't have to pay everything more.... Women aren't harassed... Women aren't discriminated... Because they put on a dress, make up and heels. They are discriminated because they are females.

Please don't assume trans women face sexism, they face homophoby and discrimination but not sexism. They aren't women. Trans men can though because they are females (Imagine a trans man in a male prison, scary right?) This Is important. I'll edit.even though I'm sure you'll delete my edit. Of course. God forbid women getting anything Simply because it's the right thing to do.

P.S. supposed sexism towards men isn't Also because of sex? High Testosterone=violent kind of thing? Please use Logic

Francesca Carta (talk) 05:28, 9 February 2020 (UTC)