User talk:David Shankbone

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Requests for adminship and bureaucratship update

No current discussions. Recent RfAs, recent RfBs: (successful, unsuccessful)

A photo request

Hi David, I have been an admirer of your architectural photography (ie. [1] and your portraiture, journalistic work etc. are superb- probably more important for Wikipedia) since I first saw your uploads. I was wondering if you take photo requests in Manhattan. I am looking for pictures to illustrate the Ely Jacques Kahn article and was wondering if you have or can take any photos of his work or work in the firms Buchman & Kahn, or Kahn & Jacobs. Some buildings mentioned in the article are the Squibb building, Universal Pictures Building, Film Center Building, but there are many more including the Bricken-Casino Building, 1400 Broadway, the Continental Building, and others.[2] Let me know what you think.

Regards, dvdrw 22:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• Hi dvdrw. I take requests - I'll try and cook you up some good photos. --David Shankbone 22:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much, I'm happy that you've kept my request pending. I used to have some photos on my mobile phone of some of his designs though they weren't many mega pixels and I don't know where I have them anymore. I'm not sure that I wrote the best article, as I'm not the greatest writer, while I think this architect was one of the greatest architects. That's why I think your photography would vastly improve the article. Maybe with your photos added to the article I may be able to write more sooner. I look forward to seeing them, maybe all three pictures should go in a gallery in the article. Again, many thanks! DVD 21:04, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Seasons greetings. Again thanks for keeping this request pending. Take your time, though I look forward to seeing the ones you already photographed if you get around to uploading them :) sounded like you got some of his earlier and middle works which are most needed since I've recently found pictures of some of his later works and someone else uploaded one which is excellent. I just found this [3] which I'll add to the article when I expand on Kahn & Jacobs (soon I hope) along with some others that I found on Wikipedia. That photo is perfect and its been here all this time! Regards, DVD 02:55, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

DVD, your patience and temperance are worthy of emulation. Here's what happened: I have three different computers, each of which has some application or use for my photography that makes uploading, photoshopping, saving and transferring a far greater ordeal than is practical, making even the simplest photo a minor ordeal. The photos of the Ely Kahn building were on my Compact Flash disc, but I did not save them to Computer #3 (an eight year old Sony Vaio desktop that I love for its heartiness) as I should have. I uploaded several photos, notably ones for Bergdorf Goodman and Louis Vuitton, but I couldn't find the proper names/addresses of the Kahn buildings when I did The Bergdorf/Vuitton shots. They remained on the CF disc, and I unwittingly erased them. I felt terrible, since the request is so long-standing, that I hoped to re-shoot before you noticed the time lag. Alas, you beat me. Although we are all volunteers, I still apologize that I haven't fulfilled your simple request to shoot a few buildings in my city. I don't know if you know how we NYC transplants operate, but I don't think I'm atypical when I say it is hard to pry me from my neighborhood during my civilian hours. Anyway, all of this is to meant to pay the courtesy of a woefully inadequate explanation. I pride myself on taking requests from fellow editors and I enjoy the challenge to fulfill them. Now you know why your original request remains here. I enjoy requests, and I will fulfill yours and offer a volunteer-level apology that I haven't done so yet. All that said, Kahn's buildings are hard to photograph, and the ones I took and unwittingly erased weren't shots I was enthused about. Take a look at this shot of the Louis Vuitton store. The building not directly to its left, but the next one over with the circle and flags, is one of the Kahn buildings I shot. As you can imagine, there is no ability to shoot it that makes it stand out. Same for the Film Center building, but for another reason: it is expansive and there without access to roofs (I often sneak into hotels or construction sites) of the residential apartment buildings that dominate its surroundings, I'm afraid I won't do Kahn justice. That's regardless - I don't have a problem uploading sub-par photos of things previously without photographic illustration. But...all this is to say that I wasn't ecstatic about the photos, but the real reason I failed is that my complicated hard drive/three computer system created a situation that caused me to delete your photos. I promise I will collaborate to help you; and although I know we all do what we can, I still feel I owe you, and you will be paid. Thanks for being sanguine about your initial request, and know that as long as it remains on my talk page I am committed to fulfilling it out of a sense of duty to our attempt to build this damn gigantic ball of knowledge and free culture. --David Shankbone 10:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Image:Jeff in thailand.jpg

Hi David. Please take a look at Image:Jeff in thailand.jpg as things seem to have gotten stale there. Thanks. -- Suntag ☼ 21:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I think the last one looks good. Doesn't seem like there is much more to do? David Shankbone 04:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

File:800px-Jeff in thailand4.jpg seems the best. -- Suntag ☼ 19:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

I think this is pretty good for the article. I also like the running through scattering gulls at the top, since exercise is often overlooked as integral to happiness. What do you think? --David Shankbone 22:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

A question

Hi, David, hope your holiday season is faring well. I wondered, then saw above, that you take requests, and we are need of a having a request granted. We've had some difficulty over an image someone donated of a person visiting the crypt of Mae West. It really focuses on the person in the photo and not the crypt. We've tried cropping it, but finally, we decided what we need is a new photo of the crypt itself (and not some fan leaving yellow roses at what might be her crypt). She is entombed at the Cypress Hills Cemetery at 833 Jamaica Avenue in Brooklyn, in Cypress Hills Abbey. We're in no great hurry and truly would appreciate it if it is at all possible. Thanks! Wildhartlivie (talk) 08:08, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

It will be my pleasure. No promises as to when, and if you come across another CC photo or person willing to take one before I get you mine, no worries at all. Likely, I will schedule a tour of the cemetery to get as many headstones as possible. My only attempt before was on my own at Green-Wood Cemetary, and I wasted a huge amount of time wandering around as if I'd find by luck the tombstones I was looking for. Plus, it was before my DSLR and the photos I actually *did* take are beyond crap (like Henry Ward Beecher, which is fine but unremarkable). I'll post the new shots on the Mae West talk page and let you all place it - in the interim, I suggest you allow any old crap shot to go up and not argue since a new shot is on its way. I'll plan on January, but no promises, and I'll still upload one even if another pops up. Choice is better - and I actually have really wanted to do a "headstone project" properly sine my failed Green-Wood sojourn. David Shankbone 08:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks so much. We are trying to forge on and trying not to argue. It's a long story that really isn't worth repeating. I had a bit of a cemetery project on a Los Angeles trip once, and I've uploaded most of the good ones over at the Commons. Eventually, I'll even get them placed into articles. We're in no great hurry and really appreciate the effort whenever you can manage. Again, happy holidays, whatever yours are. :) Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:57, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Wishing you the very best for the season. Guettarda (talk) 02:06, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for al-Baghdadia TV

On 27 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article al-Baghdadia TV, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Orlady 02:21, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Muntadhar al-Zaidi

On 27 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Muntadhar al-Zaidi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Orlady 02:21, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Ferocity

Thanks. Good to see you around and editing, also. --KP Botany (talk) 20:55, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah, KP, not nearly as good as to see you editing under your usual handle. I know you've been around, but it's always good to see that whatever caused a person to go "underground" subsided enough to allow you the comfort to reappear as I know you. And although I know what an asset you are to our image issues, you are very prized for your assistance on our botany articles. In other words, glad you are here as KP Botany again - it hurts us when you aren't here, and it's encouraging to see you back. Knock on my e-mail if you need to do so. --David Shankbone 10:16, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Will do. --KP Botany (talk) 04:47, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!

Many thanks, David, for contributing several articles relating to Solar power in Israel. I hope that you may be able to write more about renewable energy in the future. Johnfos (talk) 09:20, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks John! You know, I don't nearly thank people enough for their help, contributions, research and article writing. I appreciate that you took the time to express your appreciation, but you reminded me how much I short notes to content-oriented people ([am clearly one if you look at the abundant green on the pie chart of my contributions) makes such a positive difference to the Wiki experience. I've known that for awhile, but you reminded me I should spread the gratitude and appreciation. So...thank YOU for your hard work and volunteerism in the name of knowledge absent profit. And you will definitely see more Clean technology articles from me. I wish I knew more about energy to write them from a knowledgeable insider perspective, but it helps WP:NPOV that I don't. Feel free to e-mail me privately with any suggestions or guidance. That said, I am very proud of Solar power in Israel, even though it is very incomplete. --David Shankbone 10:22, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Photo needed

We have an article on Mary Janes that does not have a single picture of the black patent leather children's Mary Janes. Please snap a picture next time you're around a shoe store, or get one of your friends to have their four-year-old daughter pose a foot for you. White socks or tights. --KP Botany (talk) 09:41, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey KP - I must have missed this. Definitely! I'll keep an eye out. I've been wanting to do a series of retail shots of stores and "Items to be sold" - I started with the Louis Vuitton and Bergdorf Goodman articles - did you see the bird lady on there that I shot? Sexy and creepy. --David Shankbone 18:35, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Humans made into birds are generally creepy. I make wings for costumes sometimes and they always turn out rather creepy. People sometimes think I can make light and cheery bird costumes. Nope, darkness reigns. I look forward to a proper pair of black patent leather Mary Janes. --KP Botany (talk) 05:09, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes! That's is it, KP - Humans to birds are cool and creepy like David Bowie in Labyrinth cool and creepy. But you left out what makes this more than generally creepy is that she is wearing a fur coat...by Badgley Mischka, of all the things this bird woman could wear. --David Shankbone 05:13, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, the whole thing was just wrong, David. Like tigers. Just wrong. Another picture, please, if you get a chance, for the Princess seams article. Here's a google image link showing what they look like, the emphasis is on the curve over from the outer part of the dress or from the shoulder and then curving over the bustline.[4] They often go all the way down. The important use is on dresses, and in the front, although they're also used for the back seams and on blouses and some types of shirts. I'm going to look over your other people pictures to see if you have one already, but they're somewhat old-fashioned and used most often in children's clothes. --KP Botany (talk) 02:03, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Muntadhar al-Zaidi

Hello, David Shankbone. You have new messages at Viriditas's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Thanks - David. I AM a newbie and to procve it how do I spruce up my user opage so my name is no monicker is no longer in red?Coastda (talk) 16:37, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Alice Sebold pic

Thanks, Dave. I'm honestly very touched by that. Somehow it means even more than a barnstar would. Daniel Case (talk) 18:32, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK nomination

Hi. I've nominated Solar power in Israel, an article you worked on, for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Wikipedia:Did you know. You can see the hook for the article here, where you can improve it if you see fit. Thanks --Bruce1ee^talk 10:56, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I just verified this for DYK. Actually, a friend pointed out the article to me earlier in the day -- it is a wonderful contribution to the project. Thank you, David! Ecoleetage (talk) 04:50, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Ecoleetage (talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend, Go on smile! Cheers, and Happy editing!=)
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

That's very flattering; thank you much. --David Shankbone 05:14, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

My pleasure. Happy 2009! Ecoleetage (talk) 13:51, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Happy New Year! --David Shankbone 15:15, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello, David Shankbone. You have new messages at Bruce1ee's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

thanks

As I had never heard of the person, it took me a while to perceive the significance. The look on his face did give me a hint, though. I am getting so discouraged by the continuing ttn nonsense that the encouragement was very timely. DGG (talk) 20:15, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Greats

Thanks for the Hall of Greats. I'm humbled. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:08, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Hall of Greats

David, thank you so much, I don't know what to say except that it helped bring up my spirits. I spent Christmas and will be spending this New Years Day in the hospital with my wife who is sick. Thank you once more and I wish you the best and the happiest New Year. Tony the Marine (talk) 01:35, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Happy New Year

Hope 2009 is a great year for you!--MONGO 15:34, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Solar power in Israel

On 1 January, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Solar power in Israel, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 15:39, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Very nice! Congrats! Ecoleetage (talk) 22:13, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you!

You totally made my day! Kramer is a spitfire and I feel honored to be associated with his balls-to-the-wall approach of challenging the norms that don't seem to work. I find images a particularly vexing area on wikipedia and your patience and diligence in improving the project are a tribute to value-added editing. Also I want to recognize your efforts with Jeffpw's photo. I think its use here is particularly lovely. -- Banjeboi 00:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Request

David, someone has come to my talk page claiming that I do not hold the "copyright" nor "authority" to upload my personal photos. Can you believe that? I mean he claims that if my son takes a picture for me with me and someone else, that he is the owner and not I. What the heck is he talking about. I'm asking you as an experienced photographer and donator of images to check this out. Tony the Marine (talk) 02:41, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

I am truly hizzonered. I saw Bloomberg speaking at a public event last week, and I thought to myself: Nah, he already has a good picture on Wikipedia. An excellent year to you, friend!--Pharos (talk) 00:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The Hall of The Greats

Thank you for the honor, but what did I do to deserve it? — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 21:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

The inscription is in the description, but for a broad range of excellent contributions related to African-American and Judaism articles. It's not for any one act or moment, but for the totality of your contributions. --David Shankbone 21:04, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again. I'm truly honored. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 21:11, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for putting me in your Hall of Greats... I don't edit much anymore but I appreciate the recognition. Cheers! PageantUpdater talk • contribs 22:47, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Still deserved, for the totality of your edits, and as a good example of taking an interest and running with it on Wikipedia. --David Shankbone 23:48, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Ditto, hahaha. I love 30 Rock so it was a funny comparison to make. Hopefully I will get to an NYC meetup one day (I have family in NYC but haven't visited for a looongg time) :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:07, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Update for Israeli solar industry article

Hey there, I don't know if you caught this Jerusalem Post article: [5]. I thought you might want to incorporate that into your DYK-honoured article on Israel's solar industry. Cheers! Ecoleetage (talk) 14:09, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Ecoleetage - that's a real help! I appreciate the courtesy! --David Shankbone 05:04, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Columbia Journalism Review

I read the article about you in this publication last night. I think you are now officially notable. Congrats! By the way, are you still a paralegal? Bearian (talk) 17:25, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi Bearian - no, I'm not still a paralegal - hehe. I haven't seen it yet - is it good (they still haven't updated the website) --David Shankbone 05:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I mentioned your name

I'm not trying to quarrel with you personally; you just happened to be the most recent person to do what I am discussing. See this. Ling.Nut ^{(talk—WP:3IAR)} 08:40, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: RfA Comment

Too God damn true! Scarian^{Call me Pat!} 15:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

hmmm

I recently checked my old yahoo mail account. Please e-mail me when you get a chance. Gracias. APK lives in Dupont and Gomorrah 16:10, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

You're invited!

New York City Meetup Next: Sunday January 18th, Columbia University area Last: 11/01/2008

In the afternoon, we will hold a session dedicated to meta:Wikimedia New York City activities, look at our approval by the Chapters Committee, develop ideas for chapter projects at museums and libraries throughout our region, and hold salon-style group discussions on Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects (see the November meeting's minutes and the December mini-meetup's minutes).

We'll make preparations for our exciting museum photography Wikipedia Loves Art! February bonanza (on Flickr, on Facebook) with Shelley from the Brooklyn Museum and Alex from the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

We'll also be collecting folks to join our little Wikipedia Takes the Subway adventure which will be held the day after the meeting.

In the evening, we'll share dinner and chat at a local restaurant, and generally enjoy ourselves and kick back.

You can add or remove your name from the New York City Meetups invite list at Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Invite list.

To keep up-to-date on local events, you can also join our mailing list.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:53, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Jonah Falcon

Hi David. Per a message at BLPN, User:JAF1970 has been holding himself out to be Jonah Falcon. Also, the image used in the article File:JonahAug2007 4.jpg has improper licensing and probably will get deleted. Jonah Falcon is based in New York. If you have some time, perhaps you can get a few photos for the article and confirm with Jonah Falcon in person that JAF1970 and Jonah Falcon are one and the same. A myspace page is here. If you take some free photos for the article, please let me know and I will expand on the written portion. Thanks. -- Suntag ☼ 19:51, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey Suntag - Happy New Year, buddy. I'm out in Colorado Springs until February - though I'm happy to contact him when I return. If you want to pass the message on to JAF1970 and link him to my work, he can wait. Or, he can self-time any cheap camera and take one he is happy with. I have never understood why that isn't seen as an easy solution to a photo for the notable to do, right? Who can't take snap a quick decent head shot. --David Shankbone 22:27, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thank you very much for that photogenic honour. I am flattered and breathless. :) Ecoleetage (talk) 18:15, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Excellent Userpage Award
		Your user pages are amazing! Johnfos (talk) 00:14, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, thanks! I really appreciate that. I never got one of those before. David Shankbone 04:00, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you, David, for your recent posting on my talk page. That was very kind. BTW - I recently read one or two of your latest blog entries and found your comments both touching and painfully honest. I just wanted to voice my support re. what you said. I've not always agreed with what you've written but your recent comments showed a raw honesty and bravery which really affected me. Best wishes for the future, David - I just wanted to say ... well, you have my support and best wishes - Alison ^❤ 08:51, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

That means the world to me coming from you. I haven't had an easy last three years, and so many strange things happened at once, that I didn't see how they were changing me. Sometimes life creeps up on us, and we're all of a sudden like, "Whoa! How did I get in this place?!" So, thank you for the depth to see beyond characteristics that may have been warped by situations I never saw coming, and had difficulty reconciling. I appreciate that :-) --David Shankbone 09:00, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Film festivals

Hello, David. Another editor and I were talking a couple of weeks ago about getting more free images for film articles, especially shots of ensemble casts at film premieres. If I recall correctly, you were able to attend a film festival (Tribeca?) with a WikiMedia pass of sorts. I was wondering if you could explain a little bit about how you went about that; it might be an approach that we will explore for WP:FILM down the road. —Erik (talk • contrib) 17:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

You're my hero! I've been wanting other editors to pick up this gauntlet. Will you start a thread at the relevant project, and we can discuss it there? --David Shankbone 17:37, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

The conversation was between me and Nehrams2020 and can be seen here. We are hoping not to only cover film premieres but possibly appeal to filmmakers about freely licensed shots. I've gone ahead and started a discussion at WT:FILM#Pursuing free images for film articles. —Erik (talk • contrib) 17:48, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Are you going to swing by, or do I have to serve you with a subpoena? :P —Erik (talk • contrib) 23:06, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Re. I'm just so very sorry

It is true that a lot of things may happen in a blink of an eye, and I am speechless at all the developments occurring this evening. I accept your apologies, David, and I just want to forget all of this. I do not condone your language last time you spoke to me on this very talk page, but you were a victim too and I understand that the circumstances must have prevented you from stomaching me anymore, much like I was unable to stomach Eco when he dropped by at my RfB and I got the ultimate proof of the kind of person he was. I do not blame you for regarding me as someone despicable for making unfounded accusations against a friend of yours, as few possessed proof of his true colors, and that proof was mostly off-wiki. I confess that in the recent past I felt very frustrated when I checked Eco's talk page and could witness the naiveté of so many users, one by one so easily seduced by Eco's artificial and exaggerated charm operations. But then I remembered that I, too, had once been made believe he was a role model user. And that he was a professional in what he did, including deception. So the signs that looked so obvious to me, could look not so obvious to others. There was little that I could do then. So I just waited and hoped that the community would someday open its eyes. Sadly it did not happen before his RfA. When I first noticed that the RfA was finally ongoing and that the outcome was poised to be a resounding victory, I knew that I had to put my name deep in the mud again. Maybe I could've provided a better service to the community if I had backed my accusations with evidence right away, and about that I shall discuss with EVula later today, but I had my reasons and the community could've given a small consideration for that. My accusations were neither uncivil nor personal attacks, they were actually a carefully worded description of my views on the user. The words were harsh and that I do not dispute, but they could not be otherwise if I were to be sincere. Still, I don't really think I deserved the ensuing onslaught, but it was nothing I wasn't expecting nor caring much about. Anyway, the final outcome was sort of positive (in a nightmarish kind of way) as his mask ultimately fell and Wikipedia was spared the disaster of having Eco as an admin. Now I just hope that this matter will be closed as soon as possible. Eco appears to be someone quite disturbed, or at least there is something definitely wrong with him. After today I find it even harder to comprehend his nature. I wish him no harm, but wish never to come across him again.

I thank you for having apologized, as I understand it must've been quite hard for you to do. It shows good on your character and your action will effectively help me forget this whole story. I also hope that any further encounters we may have in the future may be civil and amicable. Regards, Húsönd 23:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Image size question

Hello, David. Got a question for you. I was looking at this edit (which, despite how may appear, is not a revert of anything I did) and was wondering, why? I went to the MOS link you thoughtfully provided, and sure as rain, you were correct. However, I read the whole thing without learning why this is policy. While your edit did not revert me in this case, I have actually "forced" probably about five or six images since learning how to do this a few months ago. When I've done it, it has always been for aesthetic reasons, usually having to with text that gets placed in awkward positions, and the articles are much better off when I do so. The only thing I can think of is that maybe my "improvements" may not be improvements as they appear on other people's browsers/monitors, etc. But if I've got text running into or under a picture on my browser, and after I "fix" it, no one complains, haven't I perhaps improved things for most people? Anyway, I know you will be able to enlighten me, as you are already established in my book as a source of wisdom. Unschool 15:58, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Howdy! I used to feel the same as you, and the reason for WP:MOS#Images is becoming less and less: some people have slow connections, and larger photos make downloading the page hard for them. Since Wikipedia is kind of Lowest Common Denominator about some things, they err on the side of greatest use for the largest amount of people. It's a good photo, by the way; I was impressed. Now, in my opinion, as broadband, DSL, WiFi and cable become more prevalent, I think this guideline should be ditched. What that would take is some kind of statistic showing a "consensus-level" amount of people use a high-speed connection (75/80%?) before we'll be successful in changing it. I'm sure those stats are tracked somewhere by one of the media companies, or A.C. Nielsen. But since I can't beat 'em (the people always removing my forced image sizes) I decided to join 'em. Philosophically, I'm more where you're at. Then again - I use high speed connections. I won't revert you if you want to force image size it, though, and as you saw from WP:MOS#Images, there are reasons to have forced image sizes. Thanks a lot for your compliments. You do good work as well! --David Shankbone 17:01, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. Just to set the record straight, the photo was not mine. To date I am still an image parasite. Got my first digital camera over Christmas, though, so maybe I'll join the modern world sometime in the near future. Cheers! Unschool 07:50, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Treatment of other editors

Seriously Mr. Shankbone I've lost count of times I've come across really negative messages you send other editors. Many people try expanding things or saying things in good faith but you appear to really intimidate them. Lighten up. Nobody is under obligation to edit wikipedia or try to improve its content and people don't need telling how useless they are in all honesty however crap you think their edits are. You;ve done a lot of good work with the images which I greatly appreciate given that I also do a lot to try to improve our image content myself but try to treat people as human beings with feelings and make wikipedia a welcome place. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 18:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

You're probably right, but what birthed this message? --David Shankbone 18:15, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, goodness, this is over User talk:DJ Bungi? I don't find my message negative at all, this editor constantly edit wars, creates unnotable articles, etc. I don't have any apology for that message, I can assure you. First, you're not welcoming a newbie, you're welcoming someone who is very familiar with policies and guidelines. Second, the editor has to be consistently warned. I don't consider them particularly valuable when they are creating articles about 18 year old soccer players, and many of them. In reality, it's disruptive and creates a lot of work for AfD. So, while I take your advice, it's inapplicable here, and your welcome on his Talk page at the bottom of zillions of warnings, deletion templates, block notices, etc. looks kind of silly. Seriously - the dude has been editing Wikipedia longer than I have (he's been here since 2005). --David Shankbone 18:20, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Well not just DJ Bungi (I was only playing there are a response to seeing it as a negative welcoming page), just occasionally more recently with Ecolaage and other places you just semeed quite opinionated and strong in your views thats all. I agree it also frustrates me that these people are creating articles on these players, actually my two pet hates on wikipedia are on articles on web comics and pokemon and footballers from eastern europe who were born in 1992 and play for some 8th league club which I often see at New Pages!! Remember I did stop by the offer some positive thoughts when you had that trouble a while back and considered leaving? Its just I try to stay positive on here, and sometimes I come across conversations which make me feel negative. I try at most to stay away from them and concentrate on improving the mainspace but I do think that sometimes some issues are blow out of proportion and that people need to take it easier on here. I was wondering anyway, any chance you could somehow get hold of a photo of Shania Twain? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 18:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, your advice is totally correct, and I welcome you to watch me and give me advice if you see me getting a little too brusque or headstrong. I'm trying to improve my disposition on here. Partially, I have a bad "typing voice" that doesn't mirror how it reads in my head at all (you can ask User:Peteforsyth, who I talk to on the phone a good deal). I tend to be plain and direct, and that doesn't translate as friendly, and I don't mind the advice about that because my thick skull forgets when I get caught up in editing - so thanks. User:DJ Bungi is another issue altogether, though, and I remember him joining with my stalker awhile back over Chihuahua (dog) to edit war to get a low quality photo of his dog on there, in addition to all the other things. I imagine he is more active on the Serbian or Bosnian projects, but he has a long edit history here, and the articles he is creating show he knows a lot about how the project operates. The Eco RfA was an embarrassment for me, and I can't defend myself there. I did apologize to User:Husond, and it was a repeat of behavior I'm trying to change. Shania Twain might be difficult, but I'll put it on my Google Doc of photo requests. Thanks for the polite advice, and come back. --David Shankbone 18:45, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah don't worry about, it can get stressful on here at times, but the project has to work somehow. Didn't mean to be judgemental, I've seen many examples where you are a cool guy just difficult situations and conflicts seem to pop up every now again which none of us can avoid. Yes I've tried looking on flickr. I've noticed we are also missing images for Catherine Zeta Jones (we have a bad quality one) and Jude Law. Does seem there are a few on flickr which were privately taken, perhaps I should request permission. The problem with many of these people of course is that they are in high demand and people can make a lot of money out of selling them. This is why I greatly appreciate your work in this area, and contributions to images of "commercial" subjects on here. Take care Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 19:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I can get B and C list notables to meet with me in person, but huge, huge people are impossible outside of events (it's even hard for mainstream media). I mostly like doing public events because first, the person looks their *best* (although not always the case with the authors who show up at the Brooklyn Book Festival - see Francine Prose). Second, photographing at press functions makes you part of the press, and not the paparazzi (professional photographers are adamant about that with me - a photographer for the New York Daily News gets really upset if you compare him with one for TMZ.com). Last, there are less concerns about releases because they are in public. Amongst the zillion other projects I'd like to do on here, I would particularly like to get a photography corps. going for event photography. So much to do... --David Shankbone 19:16, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I know it so hard to get good images of these people which aren't copyrighted or attatched to some commerical gain. Shania Twain looks amazing in all the copyrighted photographs of her, but the one we have of her in concert at present doesn't even look like her!! I cunningly though managed to find us a good image of Clint Eastwood, even if his neck looks a little stiff! Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 19:31, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

That's quite a score on Clint, even with the turkey neck. Man, I love that guy. Grand Torino was so good. --David Shankbone 20:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah he's my favourite living actor, kind of a hero of mine, superb director too. Astounding for a guy of 78 to still have that quality in Gran Torino. I've got most of his films, I particularly love the 60s and 70s westerns and the Dirty Harry films. "This is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, "Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?" and "Yeah. But you don't look like the one who would collect it" (from GBU when he meets Tuco's captors for the first time). Cool as a cucumber. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 21:48, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

My mistake

Sorry for the error.did you removed it ?User talk:Yousaf465

Tamil terrorists discussion

Hi; I think this editing of another user's comments was inappropriate. I understand that you feel it was an inappropriate personal attack, but I don't think unilateral amendment of the user's comment is a good solution in this case. It would have been far better if you had asked the user on his talk page to remove that comment. At the very least, you should have informed the user that you were striking out an offensive comment. (From the user's talk page, I can't see that you did so.) Thanks, Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:47, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Removing an editor's comment is inappropriate, but striking is quite appropriate. Calling another user racist for creating a category that is similar to many other categories we have on here violates, at the very least, the policy WP:NPA. Frankly, you should be on their talk page, not on mine. The edit summary was sufficient for notice, which is why I did it in a separate edit from subsequent edits. So, we disagree. --David Shankbone 01:51, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

No, any adjustment is unacceptable if you don't notify the user. You didn't. Don't do it again without notification, please. (Incidentally, he didn't call another user a racist, he said the category was racist. There is a significant difference, and one that you should be aware of if you are going to adjust the comment based on the (in)appropriateness of it.) Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:53, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

No, saying that creating a category is racist is...calling someone racist. The user certainly feels he's been called a racist. Regardless, as an admin you should be warning more the user slinging around racism as a violation of WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL, and it's a little glaring that you find striking out a charge of racism to be "unacceptable". So, we still disagree there. But I certainly can notify them on their talk page in the future - that's reasonable. The rest of what you wrote I think is incorrect. --David Shankbone 02:03, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

We must be reading different discussion. The user wrote: "This category is not only redundant but seems to be racist also.". The subject is "this category". On a plain reading of the sentence, "seems to be racist" refers to the category, not to the category creator. There is a substantial difference, and we shouldn't "fill in the gaps" to imply something that the user may not have intended. (Otherwise we're not AGFing.) There's usually nothing wrong with making the argument that a category should be deleted because it is racist. Similar reasons that would be wholly unacceptable if applied to a user are provided all the time at CfD as a reason to delete or rename a category, and even if the rationale is accepted, typically no ill intent is imputed onto the creator since we AGF. I agree that perhaps the user could have selected a better choice of words or made his meaning clearer, and because of this striking it out is not unacceptable, but doing so without notifying the user is. I thought that was clear from my previous statement. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

We also have "I wrote that you could replace a racist category with what conforms the requirements" by User:Taprobanus; we have the user responding to that "The personal attack here is yours: you called the creation of a legitimate category "racist." I am extremely offended by that personal insult of my motivations". Then we have "This category is not only redundant but seems to be racist also", which you quoted, and the racism card is being thrown around wantonly. If you are going to repeat yourself, bold and italicize, just go the full mile and cite some policy and guideline. I thought it was clear from my previous statement that I thought it was a reasonable request to notify on their talk page. It certainly isn't mandatory. If I'm wrong, I'll wait for the cite from you that says one must notify someone else before striking out--not removing--acrimonious language that violates NPA and CIVIL. It was only a few days ago that an admin removed an entire thread I started that was more than appropriate, and I received no notification. Removed, not struck through. So, yes, I would be interested in the guideline/policy link. Otherwise, it's just your POV, although a reasonable one, as I've already stated. --David Shankbone 02:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:CIVIL#Removal_of_uncivil_comments; Wikipedia:TALK#Others.27_comments; Wikipedia:ATTACK#Removal_of_text. I don't see this as an unambiguous example of being uncivil or attacking another, since the sentence in question referred to the category. Obviously, you and other users can do as you like, but I'm trying to be helpful. In my opinion, it's generally not a good idea to edit others' comments, especially when you haven't approached the editor about it or informed them about it. Sure, there's no black letter rule. I just figured it was a courtesy that could be expected, however. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

By my second response I agreed with you. But you were using very unequivocal language, as if it's a black letter rule; language you are now toning down. We've both been to law school, as has User:THF, and we all know how to dance around language. If I may offer you advice: when you see people using racism to describe a good faith editor's contribution, and you see that editor getting upset by it, it might be better to step in and ask them to tone their language down instead of allowing it to languish and subsequently multiply. That's far more disruptive. And let's not forget this gem where an editor says it's "probably justified" to call THF a racist. THF and I are diametrically opposite on the political spectrum, and we have a history, so I'm certainly no cohort of his. By my second comment you had me agreeing with the reasonableness of notifying an editor on a talk page, but you still have yet to agree with the violations of our policies and guidelines in that discussion (ref the diff above), and I find that disheartening. Oh well. I tried. --David Shankbone 03:06, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I've just been referring to the one instance where you edited anothers' comments. I have not agreed with you that there have been violations of our policies because with respect to that sentence I think if you AGF there is no violation. Whatever violations there may have otherwise been in the discussion has not been referred to at all by me, since I was trying to get you to focus on your own behaviour, rather than shifting the focus elsewhere. If it makes you feel better—sure, comments were not acceptable. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I wish everyone would strike out these comments where editors' call each others' editing "racist." It's an easy way to back out of a situation that can readily become too entangled and escalate to a lot more. In my opinion, it should be a policy that these words, like racist, narrow-minded, etc., are just stricken from discussion. --KP Botany (talk) 02:09, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, many editors get quite upset when they learn that others have edited their comments without notification. So doing so can be counterproductive, unless you go about it very gingerly. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

What is more counterproductive is calling people's editing racist than striking out an acrimonious comment. I understand you don't feel that's the case, though. Oh well. --David Shankbone 02:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd disagree with that. I've seen worse fights over striking out comments on WP than any offensive remark ever made. But whatever—it's obvious you've taken some offence to my offer of helping you improve the courtesy level on WP. Good luck to you, Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:43, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

It's bizarre that you read it that way, since I've continually agreed with the reasonableness of notifying another editor of striking out an acrimonious comment. I guess I'm perplexed why there is selective reading on your end, whether of my agreement with you, or your glossing over another editor saying it is "probably justified" to call another editor racist. I dunno - we're at a standstill. Good luck to you, too. --David Shankbone 03:06, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

You're not offended at all? I sense some defensiveness when you shift the focus to others' behaviour and comments instead of sticking to the topic of your own, that's all. I'm not trying to mediate the entire discussion; I only have so much time so I just thought I'd offer some help to one user who looked amenable to a suggestion. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, let's not spit on my cupcake and call it icing. You weren't making polite suggestions, but using heavy-handed, bolded, italicized language (in repetition after I agreed) that didn't strike me as friendly, polite suggestions. That three days ago I had an admin remove a thread with no warning that eventually became a discussion about banning that editor made me curious about why you were so unequivocal and demanding in your tone; that's all. I would hardly say your language and fonting were "polite suggestions"; they read like warnings. We're clearly miscommunicating. --David Shankbone 03:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I've just been referring to the one instance where you edited anothers' comments. I have not agreed with you that there have been violations of our policies because with respect to that sentence I think if you AGF there is no violation. Whatever violations there may have otherwise been in the discussion has not been referred to at all by me, since I was trying to get you to focus on your own behaviour, rather than shifting the focus elsewhere. If it makes you feel better—sure, comments were not acceptable. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I understand. I came into that AfD pretty late in the game with all the 'you're probably a racist' language being bandied about, and you chose to focus on the editor trying to give, perhaps inartfully, an indication that it has no place in an academic discussion, whilst saying nothing about the charged language. It's your choice. That diff is unequivocal in its charge, and all the talk of racism is compounding itself, upsetting the editor, and disrupting the AfD. You are leaving it unaddressed. For that, I was perplexed by your focus (not trying to shift it), but I'm not offended. You had good advice. I just wish you'd spread it around a bit more. You have no interesting in doing so. No worries. We're all volunteers. Happy editing. --David Shankbone 03:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Good; thanks for clarifying. I'm sorry I did come across how you described above and in retrospect I should have approached you differently. I see now that it was a bit too much on the blunt force side, whereas I was just trying to be concise and understandable, I guess. And your previous experience with the other admin's actions no doubt had an effect on your perspective. I'm glad you're not upset by what I've done, though, and it was never my intent to "warn" you as if I was about to block you for what you had done. ("Spit on a cupcake and call it icing" ... that gives me an idea for something else totally unrelated, but it's good that you mentioned it...) Good luck, Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:54, 20 January 2009 (UTC) (PS: I'm taking your points to heart about the greater problems with this discussion, and I agree with you after further studying the diffs and various edits made by other users. I'll be e-mailing some other admins to see if they care to help intervene. At the present time I'm a bit unsure of what the best course to take would be, but I think I'll at least drop a short note to some of the other users re: their comments and then see what some of the other admins think. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for acknowledging my POV , and clarifying. Your advice was good, and certainly a better practice, and I'll follow it in the future :-) --David Shankbone 04:00, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Dang -- really, I always hate to see two respected editors get into it like this. The things you are talking about -- yes, we all sometimes cross over various lines, either in subtle ways or otherwise; and yes, we all sometimes feel the need to point out other people's transgressions. Sometimes that leads to a worthwhile discussion, but more often not. If you are interested in my opinion -- and if not, that's fine, I'll walk away -- I'd suggest this is a good moment to let it drop, maybe look back at the discussion in a month or so to see if there are any salvageable tidbits of wisdom, and otherwise just let it lie. FWIW. -Pete (talk)

Somehow, it let me make that post without edit-conflicting me. I see that you have both found some reconciliation I didn't see before...so please ignore my post, sorry to butt in. -Pete (talk)

Thanks Petey - we were just being lawyer-y, with good results. As always, you're a man for peace and reason, and that's why you are loved on this project. --David Shankbone 05:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

That's what my wife always says to me: "stop being all lawyer-y". (Sigh). Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 06:01, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

• FYI positive response regarding my inquiry regarding the calling racist "probably justified" comment: user's response. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:29, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

My god, three civil editors on a user talk page, three civil editors who might be in the midst of an article content dispute? I'm going to AN/I to report David's user talk page hijacked by aliens. --KP Botany (talk) 06:54, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

fyi

Similar WP:POINTiness going on at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_January_20#Category:Kurdish_terrorists. THF (talk) 05:46, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I just find it intellectually annoying that people are arguing that a group must have a country in order to be considered a nation. Issues where I have to teach 5th grade Social Studies are draining. The examples where this is clearly not the case (er, Soviet Union or Tibet or most of Africa) are too numerous. --David Shankbone 05:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

This is a rather modern thing, that a people don't exist without a politically "recognized" nation. Poland is the easiest and safest example, though, of a nation that existed when it failed to exist, as it's hard for almost anyone to side against Poland and its unique cultural identity through the hundred years when it did not exist. Okay, back to school. --KP Botany (talk) 06:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

This is why I love having you back here - that's exactly right. It's a totally modern phenomenon, but it's not academically supported. It's just a popular misconception. This is the heart of my oppose to these deletions. Hehe - I wrote on my Facebook status that "...is arguing about whether the Tamils of Sri Lanka are a nation but he doesn't really care" and one of my WP buddies on there wrote that it's always best to argue about things you don't have your heart in. Although I do have a sticking point about this "They are only a nation if they have a government and geographic boundaries" thing. No credible political scientist would argue that. Glad you're back, KP. --David Shankbone 06:49, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Movement to impeach George W. Bush

As I have stated more than once, my intent is not to "hide" the information presented in the article...but to help pull it together into a more collected discussion. As it stands now, I read the article and see no "movement" in the sense that I saw a progression of events in previous impeachment articles. The articles reads now as a thesis/case being built to present for impeachment, vs. an actual reporting of events. In some situations, I feel that the sources being used aren't neccessarilly the most reputable (case in point, the ImpeachBush.org poll I removed earlier). If the article is going to remain, I think the best course of action would be to work to weed out information duplicated in Criticism of George W. Bush and use that article as stepping off point for a discussion on the actual attempts to impeach him. There is a point in the article when an actual attempt to impeach Bush is discussed, but amoung all the other content...it seems almost buried. The article would stand stronger (and likely garner less protest) if it focused on these events moreso than it does now. -- TRTX ^{T / C} 19:34, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

But it's already a huge article. I generally dislike any attempt to contract or remove reliably-sourced information. Your points about Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were correct - they are small. I'd like to see them expanded. The impeach Bush movement, though, was no nancy-pants sentiment and when I was in law school we studied the reasoning behind it, and I disagree with attempts to shrink this knowledge. That said, the article could use an overhaul. My main concern right now is that the people who don't like the article, think it should be changed, merged or shrunk are choosing a very moment to do so that is likely to backfire. Like most things in life, it's all about timing. I'd prefer a group of editors to get together to wade through the impeachment morass and figure out what, exactly, that movement was about, its foundations, its veracity and its effect (if any), with the goal of coming up with a really good article that discussed the ins-and-outs. There's no reason we can't all work together if, in the end, our goals is to come up with something decent and NPOV, right? I'm sure the way it stands now, the article is a morass of "add-ons" and "alsos" as things developed, and it can perhaps use some cleaning. I just think this is a really poor choice for timing if one wants to be successful in a cold-hearted, NPOV review of it. --David Shankbone 19:49, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

More on images

Hi David. I've sent out flickr requests for images of Shania and Jude Law but in my attempt to get on eof Catherine Zeta I came across this. Do you think these images were taken by the uploader? To me they look like it because many are taken at unusual angles that don't normally appear in press photos. There is a high amount of images in there, think its worth asking permission? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 21:29, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I am pretty certain he is the photographer, so it would be worth asking. He has too large of a following on Flickr, and the angles are definitely not at ones that would be found in magazines. Most of his shots, although the composition is good, would be useless for magazines who need a particular angle/look, as you noted. He might give you a low-res one. If you have trouble reaching out to him, let me know and I'll try, too. --David Shankbone 21:45, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

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If I may be so bold...

...I'd like to request that you find some way to photograph Denise Richards. The photo that we have in the article now, as you will surely agree, is horrid! Thanks for reading and thanks also for all the great work you've added thus far, Dismas|^(talk) 10:40, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that's almost as bad as my Michelangelo Signorile. Pale people can be really difficult to capture, so I feel for the photographer; but you're right about its quality. It's so overblown that it wipes her nose right off her face. If she was a drag queen, she'd love that photo - every drag queen I ever shot said, "You know to overexpose me, right?" But, er, not because it hides their noses.... I'll keep an eye out for Richards. Thanks for the good work you're doing. --David Shankbone 14:38, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Greats

Thank you so very much for the nice award. Jkelly (talk) 22:43, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

A little help?

Hi David, Another editor advised me to ask you for some help as I don't know how to upload other people's photos from Flickr (even though I get their permission)-- these are of Tal Wilkenfeld and are in all honesty, a "10"+ !! The owner is a pro photographer, and has offered but I don't know how to explain to him how to change the attribution, non-commercial and more to upload his photos here. I asked User:Aleta-- the only Admin I really know, for help but she's never done it before -no media ever. Could you help me? I just found like, 2 dozen seriously needed pictures for Wikipedia (of mostly living people-- Rick Danko had died, but other than that.. please answer me on my talk page. If you can't help, maybe you can suggest someone who can? Thanks for listening. Oh, the photos: Tal Wilkenfeld there's two [6], [7] and her band [8] all in Flickr from the same guy, nicknamed Mandy-Pixel. --leahtwosaints (talk) 03:20, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Flickr licenses

David, I left you a message on my talk page for you about those photos. Please, see it. You are a gem. In addition, there's another photo that someone has, we need badly, of Cat Stevens, and the owner just wants to know what permissions, etc. he needs to change, if you could tell him and upload it too?? It's a lot to ask, I know, yet we have nothing for him, either. It's here on Flickr: [9] The owner is a "Mr. Hepe", who knows me by my name, Leah DosSantos- you can always email me, too, at leah2saints@yahoo.com I think he once made an unsuccessful attempt to upload his photo or someone else tried. I said another person might contact him. dixon.stones@yahoo.com If it works, (and it looks something like a promotional shot, so that concerns me a little)- he signed his email "William", so go figure. Please help with this. We had a GA article till Yusuf Islam re-appeared to the music world, and still have no photo of either before or after. There's another person I'm begging for a later photo of him. --leahtwosaints (talk) 16:31, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Oooh. He changed the copyright stuff on the Cat Stevens for Creative Commons and I think it's ready for upload. Keep me posted!--leahtwosaints (talk) 17:01, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Leah, unfortunately he does not allow derivative works of the photo, so we can not use them. To the right I have a list of options for Flickr images that are allowed. The "ND" stands for "No Derivative" which is how Mr. Hepe has licensed it. Sorry. --David Shankbone 15:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Rush Limbaugh

After today, you will have an opposing pov to add to WSJ op-ed. I made a reference to it again, because it is part II of the same issue. thanx. Furtive admirer (talk) 17:11, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm fine with that, but as long as this section gets expanded properly. Frankly, I find there is too much pro-"Rush" (as editors keep calling him on his article) POV on there. We currently have a controversy section where--there appears to be no controversy, but just an explanation of Limbaugh's POV. This is getting tiresome on that article, and it will head to RfC if people are only going to be using Limbaugh's website as a source, and not explaining why these things are controversial. Seriously - it's getting to be a bit much. --David Shankbone 17:15, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

please read the WSJ article and then the link to his 4 word quote which is a transcript (on his website). Controversy is an individual semantic interpretation. The democrats circulated a petition this week to maintain controversy on this matter, and Rush responded with the op ed in the WSJ; IT IS DEMOCRATIC POLICIES HE WANTS TO FAIL, NOT OBAMA PERSONALLY. Obama could revisit his policies, if he gets rid of rahm emanuel who is making ALL policy. Obama is the stuttering mouthpiece. he is incoherent without a teleprompter. "ah, ah, ah, ..." ( I am a speech pathologist, and his grandmother should have addressed that in grammar school!) SO, THE WSJ ARTICLE CLARIFIES THE DEMOCRATIC POLICIES. OBAMA WAS A METAPHOR. I still think it is a clarification of his comment on what he hopes will fail. do you have the final say on this or is there a democratic majority vote on this matter? maybe you are a bit too liberal for (and/or offended by) the WSJ article??? thanx! Furtive admirer (talk) 09:22, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Yusuf

Hey David - belated happy new year. Off to a hopeful start! I'm a lead editor on Cat Stevens and wanted to talk to you about the Yusuf vs Islam thing. I think this is one of those times to ignore or at least bend the MOS rule about subsequent use of the name because of the potential confusion inherent in his name being "Islam". Although it should be clear from the context that we mean Islam the man not Islam the religion, the potential for misunderstanding is, I think, high. Also, his stage name now is "Yusuf" so it seems to me that using it throughout that portion of the article - and/or alternating "Yusuf" with "Yusuf Islam" - is the most clear and least confusing way to handle this. There is some precedent for using alternate forms of names to reduce confusion - for example differentiating husbands and wives within an article (this came up in the FAC for Nancy Reagan, for example, where it was agreed that clarity trumps policy and we allowed some "Nancy"s in place of the technically correct but confusing "Reagan" - and there are many other examples). So - I"m going to look it over and plan on reworking the name references but wanted to explain why to you, and see what you think or if you have any other ideas. Good edit about the Gaza children's aid, by the way - thanks for adding it. Cheers Tvoz/talk 06:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)