Wikipedia talk:Protection policy

(Suggestion) Possibility for making a new type of protection

I feel it would be useful for certain articles to have a mix of Semi-protected and Pending changes protected (level 2). What this would mean is that only those meeting the criteria for editing a semi-protected article would be able to make edits, but those edits would still have to go through the pending changes validation process before being publicly visible. This could, in my opinion, help keep in check articles subject to vandalism from auto-confirmed members while not requiring full protection. If this were implemented, I would suggest calling it "Pending changes protected (level 3)" to reflect its stricter nature while still being a type of pending changes protection.2602:306:C559:8860:841F:1F31:C02:B274 (talk) 02:30, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

This is already possible, by applying PC2 and semi-protection simultaneously. While this configuration would probably be useful on pages subject to severe vandalism/BLP problems, its use is limited by the fact that only PC1 has a consensus for implementation. Per WP:IAR, I would suggest the use of this protection configuration on articles that would otherwise need to be fully protected. DavidLeighEllis (talk) 02:35, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I personally am a big fan of pending changes level 2, but as mentioned above, and see here, consensus is not to apply it. Itried to keep one article under it by invoking IAR, but was told it is just not done :). Lectonar (talk) 09:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Why is it that I can't post

Why can't I post to the Hebron talk page or the Hebron page. I've edited on wikipedia since 2007 and even before that. Did that page get hacked so that only a small group can post on it? Mrbrklyn (talk) 02:15, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

@Mrbrklyn: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Wikipedia:Protection policy. If you are having difficulty editing another page and its talk page, please post at Wikipedia:Request for edit. You might prefer to post at WP:HD. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:52, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Links changed

I've changed the links in the WP:SEMI section from WP:Request for edit (which currently redirects to WP:Edit requests, the information page) to WP:RFED, which I assume is the correct location. One or more redirects may have gone wrong, so other changes may also be required. Tevildo (talk) 21:43, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

List of protected pages

The special page "Protected pages" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ProtectedPages seems to have many inaccuracies: many of the pages that it lists as fully protected are currently semi-protected (e.g. Quran, LOL) or not protected at all (e.g. Éire, Grand Unified theory). I don't know how that page is administered—sorry if this is the wrong place to be posting about it. Kajabla (talk) 17:01, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Pages can have multiple kinds of protection applied, for example LOL has semi-protection applied for editing the page, but full-protection applied for moving (renaming) the page. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:19, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

An easy way to check these on a page is to go to history, then click logs for this page. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:21, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

New 30/500 section

Since the new extendedconfirmed user level will be activated relatively soon per this I thought it was necessary to add an explanation as to what exactly 30/500 protection is for anyone looking for that information. I have done so. Please feel free to add in any information you think I missed. --Majora (talk) 23:13, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Do we really want to start a "list of articles" on the protection page ? Mlpearc (open channel) 15:04, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Probably not; but I would suggest that we do want to make it clear that this level of protection is not for general use. Suggest This level of protection is intended for use only in limited topic areas, where its use has been approved by either ArbCom or the community or similar. Thoughts? - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 15:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

@Mlpearc: Hopefully this level of protection will not be authorized for many (if any) more articles. I understand where you are coming from though and it certainly wouldn't be feasible to list articles under different types of protection. I was following the lead of WP:OFFICELIST that has a list of articles under that level of scrutiny. Also, I listed the articles covered since it will give a little bit of information for those looking for what 30/500, extendedconfirmed, or the blue padlock means. A lot of editors don't venture anywhere near GamerGate or the A-I conflict so if they stumble upon a page that has the blue padlock the section can quickly explain what other articles are under 30/500. Feel free to remove it if you think otherwise. --Majora (talk) 21:25, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

@Majora: Maybe more pages than you think. :P Mlpearc (open channel) 23:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Disgusted with new 30/500 rights group

I've previously complained about the slippery slope problems that 30/500 engendered. The standard response was that it was used in very limited circumstances, such as GamerGate etc. People couldn't imagine, or didn't want to believe, that it would ever become a big enough thing to cause problems. Now, it's a new rights group, a new tool to discriminate against new users who are the very life blood of the project. We've gone from a limited scope to a new user right in blinding quick fashion. I'm already seeing proposals crop up to apply this level of protection in areas where there isn't a problem. The whole notion is antithetical to what Wikipedia is supposed to be. There's no stopping it now, and I'm sure lots of you will say "tut tut, this won't be an issue". Wikipedia's gone insane. The very people who built this project are now being demonized as the people who are trying to take it down. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Extendedconfirmed padlock colour

At the moment, I believe the current padlock colour for the new 30-500 Arbitration Committee padlock is too obtrusive, it's too there, unlike the other padlocks, which blend into the white a lot better. I feel as though it should be changed from the dark blue padlock to a nice, light blue padlock. All the files are already here and nothing needs to be changed, except the templates; is the current one, and is what I'm suggesting. Anarchyte (work | talk) 11:44, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Actually, as for now it is only allowed to be used when authorized by Arbcom, it should be a bit more obstrusive (like the office-action protection, which is black). I'd say leave it like it is. Lectonar (talk) 11:47, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

The rfc suggests that while this can be added by arbcom, it can also be added "by the community" akin to topic bans etc. — xaosflux ^Talk 11:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

I was following the policy-page here which still states:"....This level of protection can only be used when authorized by the Arbitration Committee...". Actually I would be happy to have it at my fingertips as a new kind of protection for "special" cases. See also our little braintsorming at Wikipedia talk:Requests for page protection#new options. Lectonar (talk) 12:04, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Motions regarding Extended confirmed protection and arbitration enforcement

The Arbitration Committee is considering a series of motions regarding the 'extendedconfirmed' user group and associated protection levels seeking to determine logistical and administrative issues arising from the implementation of the new usergroup. Your comments would be appreciated at the below link. For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 14:02, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Motions#Extended confirmed protection and arbitration enforcement

Bulleted and numbered lists

@Voidxor: I'm willing to go with the bulleted list here. As I read the guideline in the section below WP:ListFormat, bulleted lists are preferred in this instance. One small point. The bulleted items may be in sentence case or lower case. I prefer lower case simply because they are not complete sentences. Are you good with my changing the items to lower case?--Bbb23 (talk) 12:27, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

@Bbb23: I've actually come to prefer that all list elements begin with a capital letter. The reason is consistency. As you said, while complete sentences must be capitalized, sentence fragments may go either way. I've seen hundreds of lists that consist of both complete sentences and sentence fragments intermixed; obviously they should be capitalized as they would look ridiculously inconsistent otherwise. But then, if you expand the scope, you could argue that all lists within a given article should have consistent capitalization, even when some lists contain sentence fragments and others contain full sentences. Then, to expand the scope further, you could argue that all articles should be consistent. Since they can't be consistently lowercase because of complete sentences, the only consistent format would be uppercase. Not only is that my preference (I'm a fan of consistency), but it also seems to be the prevailing format for sentence-fragment list elements across the 'pedia. Anyway, partial revert me if the capitalization bugs you. I mostly wanted to style the list for what it is: unordered. Assuming good faith of course, I'd remind you that what you're "willing to go with" doesn't hold water when there's already a consensus guideline. Nobody owns these policy pages. – voidxor 18:54, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Responding to your last point, a change pursuant to a guideline may be reverted and would still need to be discussed on the Talk page. That would be true with an article, but policy pages, no matter what you think, are different from other beasts, and administrators may have quite a bit more to say about changes to policy pages than non-admins. After all, we have to apply the policies when it comes to using our tools. Somewhere it says that policies are different from ordinary pages, but I don't remember where, and I'm not going to spend my time hunting for it. I'm in favor of consistency as well, but it's very hard to achieve on this project, and it's just as hard to determine what is most prevalent. I'll partly revert you because the guideline says so and because I think that option makes more sense. Thanks for your input.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:02, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

And there we go with the trump card! Again, I wasn't changing policy—just the formatting. For the record, the guideline does not "say so"; it says that either is fine for sentence fragments. Admit it, you just prefer it the other way. You haven't bothered to explain why. Our preferences differ so we discuss. I make my case, but you're an admin and needn't make yours. So you win. Okay, I'm feeling rather bit and done interfacing with you. Have fun lording over your watchlist. – voidxor 21:33, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

One final try. You're more than welcome to my watchlist; it exhausts me. I really think we're talking at cross purposes here and you don't understand what I'm about and I'll just assume I don't understand what you're about. Meanwhile, I'm making comments that irritate you and you're making comments that irritate me. I have a feeling that we'll never become good buddies (smile), but I don't think we're as far apart as you seem to think we are. In any case, I don't want to bore you with my Wikipedian amateur psychoanalysis. Nor is this the best forum for it. So I won't say any more. I'm perfectly happy (sincerely, no sarcasm) if you want to have the final word(s).--Bbb23 (talk) 22:34, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Proposal

I'm proposing a larger scope for template protection. Currently, template protection is used on highly visible templates. I'm proposing that it can also be (temporarily) used for pages that have a lot of vandalism from autoconfirmed users and possibly other users. Thoughts? Peter Sam Fan 16:12, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Absolutely not. It's explicitely not the protection level is designed for. WP:30/500 might become what you're seeking (once community consensus approves its normal usage). Otherwise, short-term full protection, PC2 (for special cases), an edit filter or rangeblock is what we use. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 18:02, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Proposal to clarify/update the wording at TEMP-P and UPROT

@Mr. Stradivarius, Evad37, MusikAnimal, Peter SamFan, Salvidrim!, Anomie, and Equazcion: (at least)

Hi, there was a brief discussion here (diff) about a request for indefinite edit template-protection on a page within my own userspace. I intended the page to be used as a substituted template for my signature (which is discouraged but permissible), and to keep copies of signatures my subpages in sync. The reason for the protection request is to alleviate the potential for the page to be a "vandal target", which the signatures page itself points out. Hence, the request is an example of a "user request within own userspace", and per WP:UPROT: User pages and subpages can be protected upon a simple request from the user, as long as a need exists, the request can be carried out.

But the current wording at WP:TEMP-P says, "This protection level may only be used on high-risk templates and modules and possibly in rarer cases where pages in other namespaces become transcluded to a very high degree."

That line in policy on TEMP-P was written in this diff and this diff when the userright was in its infancy, and has not changed in 3 years. The policy on user requests on user pages was updated in this diff about 4 months earlier.

Hence, the request in discussion brings up several questions to consider:

• Can a user request template-protection on a page in their user space?
• If yes, shouldn't the wording at TEMP-P be updated to reflect the relaxation of its limitation?
• If no, shouldn't the wording at UPROT be updated to clarify its limitations?

Note the current list current list of template-protected pages in the user namespace (from Special:ProtectedPages). If user-requested template-protection in their own space is disallowed, we potentially have a number of cases where policy has been violated.

There are about 2 things on this policy page to update in my opinion.

1. Update the wording at TEMP-P to clarify cases when template-protected userspace pages, or other namespaces, are legitimate.
2. Clarify or update UPROT on the protection levels that are allowed by policy. (Might as well take the opportunity to clarify what to do about ArbCom 30/500 protection requests (?))

Thanks for taking some time reading this. I hope this will help clarify some potential gray areas in current protection policy. :) — Andy W. (talk · contrib) 06:58, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

The "This protection level may only be used on high-risk templates..." was included only to prevent this protection from creeping into overzealous just in case scenarios where most general-use templates should rather remain editable by the general public. The spirit of that "clause" was never intended to prevent users from utilizing protection on something so personal as their own substituted sig page. I see no reason to deny a user this particular protection type there, if it's the most convenient one for their purposes (it does seem to be, until MediaWiki starts including some personal userspace protection right). The only reason to deny might be strict adherence to the "letter of the law" as currently written, which is really no reason at all. I'd say grant the request and add a disclaimer to TEMP-P that subst'd sig pages can be template-protected on request. equazcion → 08:48, 30 Apr 2016 (UTC)