Talk:Ahmed Deedat

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Sources modified on Ahmed Deedat[edit]

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I have just attempted to maintain the sources on Ahmed Deedat. I managed to add archive links to 2 sources, out of the total 2 I modified, whiling tagging 0 as dead.

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Sources[edit]

Hi GorgeCustersSabre

I added more material to the 'Ahmed Deedat' wikipedia page, focused on two sections: the 'Debate' section, and 'Criticism' section.

Could you let me know why the material has temporarily been removed?

It is factual and I referenced it all closely; my main source being Ahmed Deedat's official biography 'Ahmed Deedat: The Man and His Mission', 2013, by Goolam Vahed. I gave the specific page numbers in the biography to show where the information came from.

Thanks and best regards,

Ballymore1 (talk) 20:52, 29 August 2015 (UTC)B


Dear Ballymore1, I hope you are well. Few of your additions or changes were based on reliable, authoritative, and neutral third-party sources, which are essential. Blogs or the Digest won't do. Wikipedia requires proper sources. Two good sets of Wikipedia guidelines that I have found really useful can be found HERE and HERE. I've kept in the Vahed-based statements for now, but have modified them for brevity, clarity and neutrality, and I've take out the partisan Digest quotes. Just because Vahed quotes them does not change their nature. They are partisan and highly subjective. Yours, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 03:38, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi @GorgeCustersSabre:

I understand, especially the point on neutrality. Thanks for your input here.

One point I'd like to raise about the ties to Osama Bin Laden; this isn't based on scholars (as it now states), but direct interviews with Ahmed Deedat after 9/11 once he had his illness alongside his son Yusuf, which Goolam Vahed then recorded in the biography:

'..In the aftermath of 9/11, everyone seemed to remember that old name. A plethora of journalists from all over the world descended on Shaykh Deedat’s home, wanting to know [his] relationship with the Bin Laden family and, ostensibly, with Osama. It was speculated in the South African media that Yousuf, the Shaykh’s son, was a personal friend of Osama. And so it was that I was visiting Shaykh Deedat when a French television network arrived early in October 2001. The first question was: ‘Did Shaykh Deedat know the Bin Laden family?’ He answered: ‘Yes. I did know the Bin Laden family quite closely. In fact, the most senior Bin Laden, Shaykh Muhammad, had contributed the largest chunk of money during the building of the IPCI..... ‘But has Shaykh Deedat personally met Osama bin Laden?’ At this question, the Shaykh’s eyes shone and he smiled before he answered, using his eyes, interpreted by Yousuf. ‘Yes,’ Shaykh Deedat said, ‘I did meet Osama, a rather shy, respectful young man. One day when I was visiting Shaykh Muhammad bin Laden, his brother Osama was sitting not too far away. He showed interest in what we were discussing, but did not utter a word since his comments were not sought. Such decorum, such respect to elders. It was after our conversation that the senior Bin Laden called Osama closer and introduced him to me as his brother just back from the Afghan jihad...’ (Vahed, Goolam; Ahmed Deedat: The Man and his mission, 2013, Islamic, Page 2015).

The controversy was also recorded in a number of newspaper articles, such as South Africa's City Press.

http://www.news24.com/Archives/City-Press/Durban-Bin-Laden-harassment-case-Deedat-gets-more-time-20150429

So, as its based on recorded interview rather than scholarly research into the past, I think it should be re-phrased back to something along the lines of:

"His ties to Islamic extremism also became increasingly documented towards the end of his life. It emerged his dawah centre, IPCI, was heavily financed by the Bin Laden family and that he had personally met Osama Bin Laden, who he described positively".

I think it's a better reflection of the information. What do you think?

I'll also re-add the parts on the debate section with John Gilchrist I wrote in a neutral tone, as his rivalry with Gilchrist was a major part in Deedat's debate and apologetics career in South Africa.

I am thinking like this:

Debate and rivalry with John Gilchrist[edit]

Ahmed Deedat debated John Gilchrist, a South African Christian lawyer from Benoni, in 1975 on the topic of Jesus's crucifixion.

Following their 1975 debate, Deedat made defamatory personal remarks against Gilchrist that, after refusing to publicly apologise for, led to court action and him having to pay damages of R2 138 (including court costs) to Gilchrist[1].

The two became engaged in long-term rivalry, with Gilchrist going on to found the South African 'Jesus to Muslims’ organisation writing many Christian tracts and responses to Deedat’s leaflets and books, which Deedat in turn then often responded to[2].


Again, thanks for your help in keeping the page as neutral and informative as possible.

Best regards,

Ballymore1 (talk) 13:50, 30 August 2015 (UTC)B


Dear Ballymore1, I hope your day was nice. Thanks for your thorough reply. Yes, let's proceed along the lines you have outlined above. My key concern was really about the Digest, which was a rubbishy source reflecting a strongly partisan viewpoint. We shouldn't cite it or quote it as if it's a reliable source containing objective and factual statements. My thanks and best wishes, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 16:16, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Copleston[edit]

Now the articles is focusing more on Deedat’s debates: shouldn’t we use this text of Frederick Copleston in it?Jeff5102 (talk) 09:46, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

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External links modified[edit]

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  1. ^ Vahed, Goolam; Ahmed Deedat: The Man and his mission, 2013, Islamic Propagation Centre International (IPCI); Page 152
  2. ^ Vahed, Goolam; Ahmed Deedat: The Man and his mission, 2013, Islamic Propagation Centre International (IPCI); Page 252