Talk:Alan Ladd

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BetacommandBot 05:10, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Veronicalake3.jpg

Image:Veronicalake3.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 02:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

First wife

Postdarwin (talk) 11:56, 14 June 2008 (UTC) Why is his first wife described as merely an 'acquaintance'?

She's described as a high-school acquaintance because that's what she was: someone he knew from high school. It could have read "He had married a former fellow student from his high school days," but "high-school acquaintance" was briefer and said the same thing. It doesn't suggest that she *remained* a "mere acquaintance" after they married, just that she was someone he had known slightly in high school. Monkeyzpop (talk) 17:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Suicide

Hello... Why are there two different methods of suicide listed here? Is it in dispute? Some of this article is pretty loose, -On the plus side there is some info here I had not read before so thanks to who ever did the work on this page. It just needs some further tending & clean up- I always liked Alan Ladd... Cheers 71.6.81.62 (talk) 01:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

He shot himself in 1962 in a suicide attempt, but did not die of it; he later did die by an intentional overdose. I'll edit this part of the article to make it clearer. — Gavia immer (talk) 05:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Neither has ever been proven to have been a suicide attempt. The shooting was reported *by Mr. Ladd himself* as an accident; regarding the latter, James S. Bird, the Riverside County coroner's reported it to have been from a "combination of alcohol, seconal, Librium and Sparine [which] produced together the total effects the depressants had on the central nervous system with the high level of alcohol being the major factor." Mr. Ladd did not take an unusually high dosage of any of the sedatives, which he used to combat chronic insomnia. The only reason to suspect that either was a suicide attempt stems from the supposed "implications" when the two events are looked at together. However, Ladd's biographer, Beverly Linnett, has chronicled a long list of accidents that plagued Mr. Ladd's life from his early childhood on. When viewed from this perspective, an accidental death fits neatly into a long-established pattern.Scarlottidaemon (talk) 17:51, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Gay?

Ladd has been classified under the category "Gay actors from the United States". However, I've yet to find any proof-- despite some considerable google-fu on my part-- that Ladd was gay. A few sites do say that he's gay, but they don't cite any proof, compelling or otherwise. So I'm removing it. If someone does have some proof, feel free to provide it so we can consider adding it to the article.

According to director George Cukor, Ladd was part of Hollywood's gay scene, although his statement probably doesn't meet WP:RS. (edit by 130.166.33.92, 27 Jan 2010)

Restoring prior edit so the article covers this issue. There is no proof that he was or wasn't, but some people thought he was gay-friendly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.183.42.25 (talk) 18:30, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

It's a bunch of hogwash by people who want to make every Hollywood actor or actress into some kind of gay icon. The section has been deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.56.23.92 (talk) 22:39, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

It's no more hogwash than the outing of John Travolta, Tom Cruise or Merv Griffin. There are legitimate sources for the fact that people have speculated about them. Of course, only people who have been in their bedrooms know the truth. Remove Ladd and then remove Travolta, Cruise and Griffin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.173.4.86 (talk) 05:10, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

There are no legitimate sources that show Alan Ladd to have been anything but straight. That Wikipedia would allow this sort of gossip to be included in a biography is far more damning to their credibility than to Mr. Ladd's sexuality. (edit by 69.116.192.103, 6 March 2013)

Alan Ladd was a homosexual. He had a long affair with Rory Calhoun. His homosexuality was why he became an alcoholic and then committed suicide after a previous failed attempt. (92.7.24.0 (talk) 18:26, 10 December 2012 (UTC))

I haven't seen anything in legitimate sources about Ladd and Calhoun having a fling. Others know more about those sources than I do. The fact that Ladd was rumored to be gay, both during his lifetime and several decades after his death, can be sourced legitimately. Please say something here before you remove the offending paragraph from Personal life for the umpteenth time. A lot of people don't like it. They don't like what Wiki articles about Merv Griffin and Van Johnson say about their alleged gayness, either. But legitimate sources exist for all three.

I simplified one sentence, removing what the many previous edits had about the gay historian basing his speculation on the theory that Ladd's 1962 shooting was a suicide attempt. An earlier part of the article references it as a suicide attempt, so let's avoid repeating too much of what the gay historian used for speculation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.239.63.4 (talk) 00:05, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Speculation that Ladd's 1962 shooting was a suicide attempt has always cited 2 reasons: 1) his failed romance with June Allyson, and 2) the resultant separation from his wife. Neither of these reasons can conceivably be construed as "gay."

You're omitting what Patrick McGilligan published in a book. All the edits of this article have cited the book for years, but someone keeps removing McGilligan's particular claims about sexual questioning. He speculated that sexual questioning contributed either to Ladd's alleged suicide attempt or to the insomnia that he tried to combat with dangerous pharmaceutical drugs. McGilligan cited film industry insiders who remember people speculating that questioning contributed to Ladd's issues that lasted for several years. McGilligan cannot possibly prove that anyone had sex with anyone else.

Same goes for the most famously gay people in the era before the phrase "coming out" started. Montgomery Clift, for example, never told a reporter he had had relations with another man. We don't have any DNA samples from his semen that was found in another man, but statements made years after his death prove a lot of people thought he was gay or bisexual. That's as far as you can go with a Hollywood actor who died in 1966, as Clift did. It's also as far as you can go with Alan Ladd, who died in 1964. Books document that a lot of Hollywood and Broadway insiders thought certain performers weren't 100 percent heterosexual. That's all you get for the era before coming out started. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.173.4.86 (talk) 00:50, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

There's a lot of established fact to know that Montgomery Clift had affairs with men. That's not speculation. 76.202.192.102 (talk) 17:42, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Rory Calhoun had MANY affairs with women, had four legitimate kids, and one (that we know of) illegitimate child. The man was an alley cat, but with women, not men. 76.202.192.102 (talk) 17:39, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

A Wikipedia biography should *never* include passages about what "a lot of people thought." What "a lot of people thought" is *not* fact. It's gossip. Gossip should never be admitted in any legitimate biography. The same holds true for Mr. McGilligan's "speculation." "Speculation" is *not* fact. It's one person's thoughts on what *might* have been the case.

I recognize that it is a fact that there have been rumors concerning Mr. Ladd's sexuality. You are quite correct in stating that he was rumored to have been either gay, bisexual, or an adherent/supporter of the gay community. However, Wikipedia is *not* the proper place for you to state it. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, and concerns itself *only* with proven facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.116.247.13 (talk) 14:52, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Why does the George Cukor article mention Ladd being gay if he wasn't? Hmm -- 98.246.156.76 (talk) 00:08, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Just because there is a statement in another Wikipedia biography (which isn't cited, by the way) doesn't make it true. I think the Cukor statement should be rewritten so it's "reportedly gay". 69.125.134.86 (talk) 02:00, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Boxer johnny adams

is it true mr ladd was johnny adams sponsor and was to start a gim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.87.40.118 (talk) 21:38, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

• gym --98.246.156.76 (talk) 19:48, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Page protection

That's enough of the edit warring. If you would like edit this article, you'll need a registered account that's been auto-confirmed.

Given the on-going "debate" (ha!) here, BEFORE adding or removing claims that he was/wasn't/might have been/could not possibly have been gay, discuss the issue here, working toward a consensus.

Anyone wishing to continue the edit-warring instead is welcome to a fine selection of our endless supply of warnings and blocks. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:36, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Incidentally, unsourced claims about source authors' intentions and personal lives are violations of our policies regarding biographies of living persons. I will remove them on sight, for which I am claiming exemption from the restrictions outlined at WP:3RR. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:43, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

But the claim by Patrick McGilligan is part of a legitimate source. McGilligan never claimed with proof that Alan Ladd was gay. What he said was that many Hollywood insiders believed sexual questioning had to do with Ladd's insomnia and alleged suicide attempt. You can't get more definite than that about 99 percent of 1950s Hollywood performers. Liberace is a rare exception. For others from that era, such as Montgomery Clift, all you can get is a book by a major publisher that quotes publicists and other Hollywood insiders regarding what many of them believed in the 1950s.

If someone witnessed a sex act in Hollywood in the 1950s and contributes to Wikipedia, that would be original research. For such a "witness" to write a book would get a lot of attention -- Kitty Kelley proportions -- and it would have happened long ago. Books about Clift, Alan Ladd, George Cukor, etc. remain unknown to most Wikipedia editors because their authors never witnessed any sex acts, therefore they are second-hand accounts read by relatively few people. Even fewer people add citations from them to websites.

I have a Wikipedia account. The person who constantly tried to remove McGilligan's statement does not. We need to settle this dispute about whether Patrick McGilligan's account of 1950s Hollywood insiders's beliefs should become one of many such accounts on Wikipedia. Remove McGilligan from here, remove Clift, too.JohnHenryMcCullers (talk) 17:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

"You can't get more definite than that".

Sure you can! McGilligan passes on what he believes "many people thought"...that's gossip. However, if Actor X said, "I had an affair with Ladd" and it was published in a biography, that would be considered a reference to support the possibility that Ladd might have had homosexual relations. But considering that he fathered three children, this would make him possibly bisexual, not gay. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 02:08, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Answer: Unless 1) supported by proven facts, and 2) shown to have had a bearing on his professional career any speculation and/or rumor-mongering by Mr. McGilligan should also be removed from Mr. Clift's biography. I just perused Mr. Clift's bio, and found no trace of McGilligan there -- and, happily, no rumors regarding his sexual orientation.Scarlottidaemon (talk) 18:04, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what part of what I said you are arguing against. I have said two things:

1) Discuss any additions/removals here and establish a consensus before making the changes.

2) Unsourced claims about a source's author's intentions or personal life will be removed.

If you understand my two statements and agree with them, you do not have an issue with me. You do, however, still need to discuss the issue with other editors. - SummerPhD (talk) 20:06, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Incidentally, it should be noted that you have an account NOW. That was your first edit. - SummerPhD (talk) 20:08, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Speculation and rumor should not be part of a biography. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia -- *not* a supermarket tabloid. *And I will be applying for an account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.116.247.13 (talk) 14:57, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Filmography

I wish to point out the link on the main page for Alan Ladd film titles One Foot In Hell does not connect to the film page but instead connects to a music album titled One Foot In Hell and needs correcting. There is a film page for this One Foot In Hell (film). On You Tube there is a film uploaded titled Gangs Inc. (1941) starring Alan Ladd which is not listed in the Alan Ladd film titles on this Wikipedia site ? Ladd also did an episode in the TV series General Electric Theatre titled Committed in 1954 also shown on You Tube. Somebody who knows how to edit this site competently should add this in further complete the information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.100.54.203 (talk) 23:33, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I have corrected the link for One Foot in Hell, and taken the liberty of making this into a new section.Alfrew (talk) 17:51, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Cause of death

On January 29, 1964, at age fifty, Alan Ladd was found dead at his Palm Springs home of an overdose of sedatives and alcohol.

can someone please enter that as the cause of death. i can't edit protected pages yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phorc (talk • contribs) 09:32, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Done by someone else prior to this edit.—DocWatson42 (talk) 09:42, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2014

I watched movie on the GetTV network entitled "Paratrooper" (1954) with Alan Ladd

It's not in your list of his movies. Wanted to bring to your attention.

173.209.211.246 (talk) 20:59, 7 September 2014 (UTC)Thank You, Patience C 173.209.211.246 (talk) 20:59, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

The film "Paratropper" is also known as "the red beret", and the latter is mentioned on this page.--Snaevar (talk) 20:29, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

A height section?

Why does this article have an entire section on his height? And why is this protected? The log said it should have expired years ago when I looked.

• Ladd's height has been debated in a wide variety of both popular and academic works, far more than that of the vast majority of celebrities, and a clarification is entirely pertinent to an understanding of his public persona, especially in light of his sense of low esteem over it. The references linked in the section are from a government record and from a noted work of film history, and as such are completely acceptable as references on Wikipedia. Deletion because the references are merely "titles of books," as has been posited by a deleter is both inaccurate and unjustified. Monkeyzpop (talk) 08:11, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

The section includes a factoid, without context. Book titles add nothing. If his height was relevant to his career, that should be explained. In any case, it doesn't warrant an entire section even if it's not trivia. --Light show (talk) 08:27, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

How is this a book title? Electronic Army Serial Number Merged File, 1938-1946 [Archival Database]; World War II Army Enlistment Records; Records of the National Archives and Records Administration, Record Group 64; National Archives at College Park, College Park, MD. It's a legitimate source, even if book titles were not themselves legitimate sources. And if book titles are not legitimate citations, 99% of everything in WP must be deleted, as book titles comprise the vast majority of all references. Perhaps Ladd's height does not deserve a full section itself, but the topic certainly is deserving of illumination, perhaps as a sub-section of Personal Life, as it is an integral part of the public memory of the actor, and not merely a piece of trivia. It is mentioned in films (ELECTRA GLIDE IN BLUE, for example), in many, many, many books, in interviews with Ladd's colleagues (Sophia Loren, for example) and his peers (Robert Mitchum, in numerous interviews). I invite other comment, both on the subject of inclusion of the height material and on the acceptability of book titles and public records as legitimate sources for citation. Monkeyzpop (talk) 08:47, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

A book title without a specific page citation and context means nothing. A military spec source with his height, weight, hair and eye color are facts, and without context they're trivial facts. If you're trying to improve the bio, adding an entire section about some speculations about his height isn't doing it.--Light show (talk) 09:06, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm always reluctant to enter such disputes -- Monkeyzpop is correct that Ladd's AER reference is a legit source, but Light show is correct that the other references need page numbers to be valid references. (Book titles do not comprise the "vast majority" of cites, at least in my WP experience.) As to whether Ladd's height is relevant to his career -- is it? I don't see how. I've heard it mentioned that he was short, but so what? Tom Cruise is short too, and it's mentioned often, but is it encyclopedic? I personally don't think so. My two cents. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 10:05, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

• It's almost certainly because of a very old and very popular colloquialism which runs along the lines of "You think you're big and bad like Alan Ladd, but you're small and puny like Mickey Rooney" which might now be expressed as "Your rear end can't cash the checks your mouth is writing" or something of the like which is an insistence that person has an unrealistic or grandiose view of themselves. You can still find the quote occasionally used by older people or their children who have not grasped that newer generations will not understand the old, obscure, and apparently inaccurate reference. Adding this interesting piece of pop culture might give some context as well as archiving an ancient meme for the sake of history. The fact that this section is here (and the apparent wide debate) shows that people became interested in his actual height because of a strange saying. I think that's a very interesting quirk of history worth preserving. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:204:CB00:BF90:5837:D61D:34B:8D93 (talk) 01:01, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
  • I think a "Height" section is a superb idea regarding Alan Ladd although a subsection under "Personal life" would probably be more consistent with wikipedia on the whole. I imagine he must've actually been around 5'4" or 5'3" for his height to loom so large, so to speak, in everyone's memory regarding him. Racing Forward (talk) 14:13, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Incorrect Statements 're Veronica Lake

A statement was made that Ladd was perfectly paired with Lake because it was hard to find any other actresses shorter than Ladd. That's not factual. The majority of actresses in Hollywood at the time were statistically likely to be under 5'6", as the average height for women at the time was under 5'4". As a matter of fact, there were many, many major actresses under 5'2", Bette Davis and Judy Garland to mention only a couple among many. A Lake was probably under 5' tall, not 5'1". It would have been sufficient to state that Lake and Ladd were a good height match and leave it at that. Additionally, the Houseman comment about height should be removed due to being nonsensical and simply snotty. He's saying he knows Ladd's innermost thoughts and judgments about fellow actors, which is ridiculous. It's just hearsay and shouldn't be included. Orvwhot (talk) 02:30, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

'Unmade Films' (??) section of 'Alan Ladd' article

Why is there a section of this article under 'Filmography' on 'Unmade films'?? Is there a valid reason why that section should not be deleted? And, what exactly constitutes an "unmade film", so as to warrant its listing in a movie actor's bio.? Such lists, if truly notable and worthy of inclusion as part of the biographical articles on actors in Wikipedia, could turn into almost endless listings of all sorts of failed concepts, unmade scripts, cancelled productions, etc., etc. At the very least, if someone thinks the 'Unmade Films' section of Ladd's article should be retained, then a short paragraph should be included at the beginning of the section explaining what it is exactly, that the list represents. --- Professor JR (talk) 07:46, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Note: @Dutchy85: The 'Unmade Films' section of 'Alan Ladd' article is being considered for Deletion. If an editor or editors believe there is a valid reason for its inclusion in that bio. entry, then that editor or editors should add an introductory paragraph at the beginning of the section explaining what it is that the list represents -- that is, explaining what exactly constitutes an "unmade film", so as to warrant a list of same in a movie actor's bio., as opposed to, say, brief mention of certain key roles that the actor was considered for, but never got, in the text or body of the article. Long lists of this sort (or "Unmade Filmographies") -- if truly notable at all, or worthy of inclusion as part of the biographical articles on actors in Wikipedia -- could turn into almost endless listings of all sorts of failed concepts, unmade scripts, cancelled productions, etc., etc. --- Professor JR (talk) 10:33, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

I honestly thought it would be interesting/of historical value but I'll leave it open to the Wikipedia community Dutchy85 (talk) 00:07, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

There is certainly precedent for a small collection of "missed roles", when a notable actor was offered a notable role that later went to another notable actor (example: John Wayne); but few or none of the films or roles listed in this section appear to qualify as notable. All important Hollywood actors are offered roles that they pass up, for various reasons, most of which are not notable. I agree that to give any consideration to keeping this section, there would need to be an explanatory paragraph listing the criteria for inclusion; otherwise this section will surely degenerate over time into a list of every movie made in the '40s, '50s, and early '60s that Ladd wasn't in. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 00:52, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

@Dutchy85: you seem, if anything, to be adding to this list, rather than working on the explanatory paragraph recommended above. That should really be your priority, as the section seems unlikely to survive without it. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 04:58, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Delete. Lots of actors get considered for untold roles. That's the nature of the business. Unless they're really notable (George Raft comes to mind), they don't deserve mention, much less listing. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:16, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

It's unnecessary and I'm going to delete it. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 19:08, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2016

His film, "The Red Beret" was more latterly released as "Paratrooper". It has aired on Freeview TV on three different occasions over the last few months. The credits state that it was based on the book, "The Red Beret". It could be that this film was released in USA under this original title with "The Red Beret" kept as the British one. I think this alternative title is important to highlight because there is now a new generation of people who might be unable to make the link up. The same logic applies to Susan Stephen who starred with Alan Ladd. 79.70.53.51 (talk) 09:42, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. clpo13_(talk) 16:00, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Mayfair productions

Mention the series "The Damon Runyon Theatre ". Alan Ladd's company produced them. Include ? Jakescows (talk) 21:05, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Alan Ladd grave site

The article says he is buried at Forest Lawn. He is not buried. He is interred in a mausoleum Mercman111 (talk) 00:55, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Alan Ladd, the inspiration for Earth-2 Green Lantern

I came here to add to the Talk page, rather than make an edit. Has there been any discussion that Alan Ladd was the inspiration as to how DC's Earth02 Green Lantern (the original Green Lantern actually)? I took it to be common comic book knowledge that I picked up in the 1980s reading JSA comic books and then Roy Thomas' All Star Squadron and Infinity Inc. But there is nothing here. 2600:1700:37E0:4E80:D4DE:EDB:D02C:F087 (talk)Eric Ferguson