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Croatia not in the Balkans[edit]

Apparently some Croatians don't like to be a considered a Balkan country. There are quite a few sources testifying to this dislike, such as this book. Maybe we can add a sentence on this fact. We can also use the words Croats think of themselves as more closely linked with Austria than with the other territories and cultures of the former Yugoslavia. They do not refer to themselves as a Balkan country but as a European one which I took from an internet site. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 21:08, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Croatia is included within Southeast Europe and therefore also belongs to the Balkans, especially Western Balkans.

1. One more reliable source from UN agency: [1] "Croatia: 2014 UNHCR regional operations profile - South-Eastern Europe." 2. Plus my previous reliable source from CIA: "Location: Southeastern Europe, bordering the Adriatic Sea, between Bosnia and Herzegovina and Slovenia." Croatia 3. Plus European Commission source: "European Commission - Development programmes - Operational Programme South East Europe (SEE)."[1] And many more as follows: [2][3][4][5][6][7][8] Noseamuseos (talk) 05:24, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Balkans =/= South East Europe, this much you should know. Also, Noseamuseos, most of your sources are unrealiable and in no way contrinute to this article, I removed those. Tanper (talk) 15:11, 31 October 2014 (UTC)


  1. ^ European Commission - Development programmes - Operational Programme 'South East Europe (SEE)'
  2. ^ Armstrong, Werwick. Anderson, James (2007). "Borders in Central Europe: From Conflict to Cooperation". Geopolitics of European Union Enlargement: The Fortress Empire. Routledge. p. 165. ISBN 978-1-134-30132-4. 
  3. ^ Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia
  4. ^ Federal Agency for Civic Education Germany (german)
  5. ^ UNHCR - Croatia
  6. ^ Florida State University - Croatian Program - Security & Cooperation in South Eastern Europe
  7. ^ Andrew Geddes,Charles Lees,Andrew Taylor : "The European Union and South East Europe: The Dynamics of Europeanization and multilevel goverance", 2013, Routledge
  8. ^ Klaus Liebscher, Josef Christl, Peter Mooslechner, Doris Ritzberger-Grünwald : "European Economic Integration and South-East Europe: Challenges and Prospects", 2005, Edward Elgar Publishing Limited

Many Croatians are culturally brainwashed that Croatia is somehow "not" Balkans, which is a term they use with disdain, and which they perceive to be somehow more applicable to their eastern brethren (Serbs and Bosniaks, as if there is any difference between the three other than a religious one). It's similar to how Poles get butthurt when Poland is referred to as Eastern Europe (nooo it's Central Europe!!). Croatia is pure Balkans - culturally, linguistically, historically, politically, religiously.... Tribal social structure and mentality, incompetent politicians, masses still living 75 years in the past, demographic catastrophe (10% less Croats in ten years, and that was before joining the EU which fostered another wave of emigration) and massive brain drain.. And so on. The reasons for this dislike are entirely psychological. Speaking of which - this article lacks the cultural coverage of Balkans. It's no coincidence that the term is in its figurative meanings synonymous for wars, corruption, nationalistic extremism and civilizational backwardness in general. It's a tiny Middle East with a European flavor. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 18:57, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

This is a Wikipedia talk page and not a forum (most particularly not one in which to express your disdain for an ethnic group). Please keep the discussion relevant to the content, and the tone WP:CIVIL. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 09:08, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
The article has now been semi-protected, as a result of regular IP removal of Croatia from the definition of the Western Balkans, contrary to the sources used in the article. If anyone wants to remove Croatia from this designation, I suggest that they propose this here, and cite their sources. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:57, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Croatia and western Balkans[edit]

Since it seems that this is a topic again I just want to refer to an archieved discussion about this. [2] kind regards Seader (talk) 16:15, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

See also the discussion above. The page was recently semi-protected at my request, but that has now expired. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:27, 26 May 2015 (UTC)


Article currently reads:

The Balkans have a population of 60–71 million and a population density of 80-91/km2, depending on whether the Turkish and Italian parts are counted within the peninsula. Without those, the peninsula has a population of about 48 million and a density of 99/km2.

And the following table summarizes:

Balkans ** Total population = 132,473,148 In the peninsula = 40,850,676

There are several problems here:

  • It's clear that the "Turkish parts" refers to Turkey in Europe. But what are the "Italian parts"? Are we counting Trieste as Balkan? Or excluding Pula (formerly Italian) from the Balkans?
  • What is the meaning of first listing the population as 60-71 million, then later as 48 million? The 60-71 million range supposedly already "depends on whether the Turkish and Italian parts are included".
  • Why does the text give a lower bound of 48, while the table comes up with 40.8?
  • Why isn't Croatia listed among the "depending" countries?
  • It is silly to include the population of all of Turkey. No one claims that Asian Turkey is part of the Balkans.
  • Where did the number for the Balkan part of Romania come from?

This is especially embarrassing because Google is using this table in its answer for [what is the population of the balkans]. --Macrakis (talk) 01:47, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

I've been wondering the same myself. Figures seem to be completely arbitrary. I'd remove "Total population" column entirely. ProKro (talk) 02:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Agreed, thanks. Do you think we should add Croatia back in? The consensus in previous discussions seems to be that Croatia is part of the Balkans, even if some Croatians vocally object to that. Many Greeks consider that the Balkans don't include Greece. For that matter, an article by the Honorary Consul of Romania in Boston claims that the only Balkan state is Bulgaria!... --Macrakis (talk) 05:04, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
I would say, yes on Croatia. Pretty much everyone in the region objects to being called "a Balkan state", as far as I understand, mainly due to its negative connotations as a war-torn, impoverished region; which clearly isn't the case, if it ever were. Every country whose territories are even remotely within the peninsula should be included, in my opinion; Kosovo as a independent state, regardless of its current relation with Serbia. Both of those claims are simply ridiculous and clearly stem from the feeling that being identified with the region carries said negative connotations. As to where to draw the line the line for Croatia, I wouldn't know. The same goes for Romania and Serbia. That's primarily why I split all countries into two groups; those fully within the region and those just partially (under "Definitions and boundaries"). Since the same can't be done in this case; going by this image seems to be the best potion, as I doubt there'd be any verifiable sources that pinpoint exactly what fits into the definition. ProKro (talk) 11:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)