Talk:Domaine de Canton (liqueur)

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Zamac[edit]

What does zamac mean? Is it ZAMAK? Badagnani 00:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Zamac is a technical term for the fabrication of the cap. It is not used in the new campaign.Cthink (talk) 16:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why, then, did sources state that it was used in the launch of the new liqueur? This article aims to be as encyclopedic as possible. Badagnani (talk) 16:50, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Additional details[edit]

Regarding details given in an online review, is the vanilla used in the new recipe from Tahiti? Is the ginseng from Tunisia? I have never heard of ginseng produced in that nation and it seems very, very surprising that not one of the ingredients comes from China (almost impossible these days). Badagnani (talk) 08:14, 12 March 2008 (UTC) The Ginseng is not from Tunisia, but it is Tunisian varietal ginseng. (Cthink (talk) 20:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC))[reply]

The product has been revamped, which should go a long way towards explaining any confusion as to the origins of the ingredients. The ginseng is a Tunisian Varietal, the vanilla is from Tahiti, the honey is from Provence and the ginger is from Vietnam. Domaine de Canton has a new label and a new advertising campaign, which can be seen on the website www.domainedecanton.com We are building a new page for the brand, which should be published on wikipedia soon. Cthink (talk) 16:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is the vanilla used in the new recipe from Tahiti? Regarding Tunisian ginseng, I don't believe Tunisia grows ginseng, which is not native to that region. Perhaps the producers in France found a reseller in Tunisia that is reselling Chinese or Korean ginseng. It's very important to get everything exactly correct to have the most encyclopedic article possible. Stating that the ginseng is grown in Tunisia seems highly unlikely. Badagnani (talk) 16:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe there is such a thing as "Tunisian Varietal" ginseng. Badagnani (talk) 00:32, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sugar[edit]

Does the ginger syrup used in the new recipe use cane sugar? Badagnani (talk) 08:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No the ginger in the new recipe does not use cane sugar.Cthink (talk) 16:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fresh ginger is mascerated into the recipe. (Cthink (talk) 20:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC))[reply]

So, what is the sweetener used? Badagnani (talk) 16:57, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Domaine De Canton is sweetened with cane sugar and honey from Provence (Cthink (talk) 20:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Why did the same editor state that cane sugar is not used, then a couple of weeks later state that cane sugar is used? Badagnani (talk) 00:31, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cognac[edit]

Are the VSOP and Grand Champagne cognac used in the new recipe two different cognacs? Are they "twice distilled in copper pot stills, and then aged in French oak barrels"? Why would cognac need to be distilled again? Badagnani (talk) 08:32, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Cognac is once distilled in a copper pot still in Jarnac, France (Cthink (talk) 20:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Only VSOP Cognac is used in the new recipe.Cthink (talk) 16:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, can you please address the questions above in their totality? Badagnani (talk) 16:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The website states that "VSOP and XO Grande Champagne Cognacs" are used. Badagnani (talk) 18:32, 11 July 2008 (UTC) As stated above, Domaine de Canton is a new recipe.[reply]

Change from Vietnamese to Chinese ginger[edit]

What is the source for this edit? Badagnani (talk) 07:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ginger[edit]

Is the ginger used for the new recipe grown in Vietnam or China?

Is it crystallized or caramelized ginger that is used for the new recipe? Badagnani (talk) 03:38, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The ginger used in the new recipe is grown in Vietnam. It is fresh baby ginger, not carmelized or crystalized. Cthink (talk) 16:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Then why is it that some sources presented by the company for the launch of the new liqueur said "caramelized" and others said "crystallized"? Badagnani (talk) 16:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New information[edit]

The new information that someone just added about the "Indochinese ginger root estates," etc. is largely fictional advertising copy, which is not supported by actual sources or facts. Please do not remove the information about the original version of the liqueur, nor attempt to obscure the fact that it was produced in Guangdong, China. Badagnani (talk) 18:08, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the context of this issue, the actual facts are outlined in the new copy for the revamped product, Domaine de Canton, which will read: Ginger-infused elixirs were first developed in French Colonial Indochina in the mid-19th Century. Domaine de Canton French Ginger Liqueur is named for a ginger root estate located in the former Indochinese province of Siam. This was the site where the first cognac liquer was created.Cthink (talk) 16:06, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This ad copy is clearly not based on any facts. "Canton" is a part of China (not so coincidentally the very part of China where the original Canton liqueur was produced in the 1990s). If representatives of this company are insistent on presenting fictional ad copy, without any independent sourcing, as fact, this sheds doubt on each of the other claims presented (such as that not one of the product's ingredients is produced in China, something very unusual in today's market). Badagnani (talk) 16:54, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, we have been working as best as we can as a third party alongside the client in bringing this brand up to date. We would like to post the above in the Articles page, and to remove the copy that is outdated so that the information is as accurante and as current as possible. Working with Wikipedia has been a good learning process for us as we strive to represent this product accurately and fairly to the Wikipedia reader. (Cthink (talk) 22:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

It's my observation that liqueur producers (your company excluded) have little interest in properly documenting their products' history, recipe, or other information. In many cases, they don't even have a website. That makes it very difficult for Wikipedia editors to effectively document them. I'm glad this is changing; the companies behind PAMA and Hideous (liqueur), for example, did provide some assistance. Badagnani (talk) 22:26, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure why Mayalld objects to out listing the location of Domaine de Canton's Corporate Offices in New York, NY. This is a fact, and lends greater accuracy to the article. The Manhassat offices do not handle the Domaine de Canton Campaign. (Cthink (talk) 15:25, 6 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

It adds nothing to the article. The article is intended to tell the reader about the subject, not to point them to the manufacturer (and keeping on at this makes it look like you are indulging in advertising.
You persist in adding your signature to the article. Such edits will be reverted on sight.

Mayalld (talk) 15:31, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 1. It is a factual detail which adds to the article's accuracy. It is not misleading, nor does it cause harm. 2. I am somewhat new to Wikipedia and thought it was necessary to add one's signature to edits. So that I may adhere more closely to Wikipedia's "rules of the road," kindly tell me why a signed edit "will be reverted on sight." Thanks.[reply]

The reason Manhasset (a city in Nassau County, just east of New York City) was listed is because sources state that this is the city in which the company has its official headquarters. Many companies also have offices in other cities, and it makes sense (although it still hasn't been explained) that the company would have a branch office in New York, for convenience's sake, to be closer to the "action." However, that doesn't mean the company is based there. What is the connection between the Pennsylvania company and the New York one, by the way? Badagnani (talk) 17:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Name of new liqueur[edit]

If the name of the new liqueur is "Domaine de Canton," why does the label in this photo say "Canton"? Does this mean that there was a name change in the last year? If so, when did that name change occur? Badagnani (talk) 18:11, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The name and label changed in late 2007.Cthink (talk) 16:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So, how does that explain why the photo this photo says "Canton"? Does this mean that upon the introduction of the new product in *mid*-2007, it had the name "Canton," then a few months later, in late 2007, the name was changed again? Complete answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated. Badagnani (talk) 00:30, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please answer question thoroughly before page is moved. This article describes the old, new, and "new new" formulations. Badagnani (talk) 16:23, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In 2007, John Cooper (one of N.J. Cooper's two sons)revived the name and idea by producing a new ginger liqueur called Canton Ginger & Cognac Liqueur.photo Canton Ginger Liqueur follows a new recipe and is produced in Jarnac, France. The new formula is 28 percent alcohol (56 proof), is golden in color, and is packaged in a bottle designed by John Cooper [citation: http://www.thedieline.com/blog/2008/07/domaine-de-cant.html ] It contains syrup made from Vietnamese baby ginger, VSOP Cognac, orange blossom honey from Provence, and vanilla. (Cthink (talk) 21:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Canton Ginger & Cognac Liqueur was released in New York City in August 2007. By 2008 the name of the liqueur had changed once again, to Domaine de Canton French Ginger Liqueur. As of Spring 2008, it is available for purchase in New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Miami, and is set to launch in various other U.S. cities and states throughout 2008. [citation: http://www.domainedecanton.com ] (Cthink (talk) 21:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

The liqueur won the Double Gold Medal (Best of Show) in the herbal/botanical liqueur category at the 2008 San Francisco World Spirits Competition.[4] It won Best of Show in the 2007-2008 World Beverage Competition.[5]

[citation: http://www.pr.com/press-release/65246](Cthink (talk) 21:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

The liqueur won Double Gold Medal (Best of Show) in the herbal/botanical liqueur category at the 2008 San Francisco World Spirits Competition.[4] It won Best of Show in the 2007-2008 World Beverage Competition.[5] (Cthink (talk) 21:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

It would be best if you'd simply answer the questions that have been asked, as they're very specific. As this is an encyclopedia, it's important that all information be carefully examined before adding it to the article to make sure it's absolutely accurate. Badagnani (talk) 21:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WE MEANT TO POST THIS HERE, IN RESPONSE TO YOUR COMMENT ABOVE:

Thank you, we have been working as best as we can as a third party alongside the client in bringing this brand up to date. We would like to post the above in the Articles page, and to remove the copy that is outdated so that the information is as accurante and as current as possible. Working with Wikipedia has been a good learning process for us as we strive to represent this product accurately and fairly to the Wikipedia reader. (Cthink (talk) 22:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Great, thanks. I was an enormous fan of the old Canton and very dispirited (no pun intended) when it was discontinued (I had tried to order it for years before I found out that it wasn't produced anymore). I realize that the company wants to use the "legend behind the liqueur" and that's fine; we can quote from it, but if some of it really is "legendary" (and not factual), it's not suitable to present as fact. Badagnani (talk) 22:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One final issue is the distinction between the old name/formulation and new name/formulation (actually the two new names, which I guess had the same formulation but just a slightly different bottle design). It seems most apropos to me to discuss both in the same article as they are very similar in their name, flavor, and company. Badagnani (talk) 22:13, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the "legend behind the liquor" is appealing to the company, but we now understand that this should be quoted as such, and not presented as factual. Please let us know if you believe that the above copy would satisfy the Wikipedia reader's just thirst for the facts.

In response to your appetite for the old Canton (and good pun) we would encourage you to try the new recipe, and can advise you how to do so, if you like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cthink (talk • contribs) 22:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can just propose any changes to the current text, which I think is fairly complete. I live in Ohio (and haven't visited NYC in a year or two) so haven't been able to get hold of a bottle yet. I have experimented with making my own ginger liqueur, which sometimes comes out well, sometimes not so well :) Badagnani (talk) 22:24, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

World Selection[edit]

No source found for this:

Grand Gold Award for Liqueurs at the 2008 World Selection/Monde Competition.

When source is found, we can add it.

Badagnani (talk) 18:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The medal does not show up here: http://cmb.vinopres.com/index.php?page=search&id=9 . Badagnani (talk) 18:49, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of comments[edit]

Editors' comments must not be removed from this discussion page, as occurred here. Please adhere to civility at all times, thanks. Badagnani (talk) 17:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Adding comments to the top of a section or in the middle of an existing comment is refactoring, and is considered disruptive. As such it is revertable. Mayalld (talk) 20:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently the editor didn't seem to know that. Badagnani (talk) 20:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The editor seems utterly focused on just getting exactly what he wants into the article. He has an admitted WP:COI, as he is a paid PR man for these people. He repeatedly bloats the article with irrelevant fluff that is all about getting placement for his clients' desired content for the article, rather than improving the article. He has repeatedly added content with his signature to article space, despite repeatedly being asked not to.

I'm afraid that the editor doesn't know because he seems not to see that he should learn how to do things properly. Far easier to do it wrong, then complain that he is reverted. Mayalld (talk) 20:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Badagnani (talk) 20:34, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That would be shorthand for "WOW, some rant there". You would be right to think that. I think I need to chill out a bit about this particular editor? Mayalld (talk) 20:53, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't catch from the earlier talk about "the clients," "third party," and this and that, that this was a PR person, I thought s/he was just someone from the liquor company trying to get things right (in his/her eyes). Badagnani (talk) 20:56, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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