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- 1 Requested move
- 2 Please do Respect of Guru's. Move the Page from Guru Nanak to Guru Nanak Dev
- 3 Lead section
- 4 Suggestion.
- 5 Surname?
- 6 Photos
- 7 Remove
- 8 Non-RS, Copyvio and Undue
- 9 Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2016
- 10 Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2016
Please do Respect of Guru's. Move the Page from Guru Nanak to Guru Nanak Dev
Hi, This is the article of Sikh Gurus please I request you to Move the Existing page from Guru Nanak to Guru Nanak Dev. VPS 13:11, 23 October 2012 (UTC)). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bloggersingh (talk • contribs)
- As per wikipedia policy, we do not use WP:HONORIFICS. We do not name articles like Lord Ganesha, Prophet Muhammad, Shri Manmohan Singh. We use WP:COMMONNAME. --Redtigerxyz Talk 07:27, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, Shri Guru Nanak Dev ji's name should be written as 'Guru Nanak Dev' and for your kind information 'dev' is not a honorific used with their name. If we use honorific then their name becomes 'Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji'. I also hope that hurting peoples feeling isnot a policy of wikipedia, Isnot it? If you donot want to write 'Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji' atleast write 'Guru Nanak Dev'.....your policy hurts feelings of million people.
Joban Singh (Ghuman) (talk) 14:51, 5 May 2016 (UTC) Joban Singh (Ghuman) (talk) 14:51, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Throughout Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Nanak is predominantly referred to as Gur Nanak.
ਜਿਵ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅੰਗਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਤਿਵ ਗੁਰ ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਕੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
Jiv Angadh Ang Sang Naanak Gur Thiv Gur Amaradhaas Kai Gur Raamadhaas ||1||
Just as Guru Nanak was part and parcel, life and limb with Guru Angad, so is Guru Amar Daas one with Guru Raam Daas. ||1||
ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਚਉਥੇ ਕੇ (ਭਟ ਕੀਰਤ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੪੦੬
Savaiye (praise of Guru Ram Das) Bhatt Balh Gueu Granth Sahib : Page 1406
ਅਬਿਚਲ ਨੀਵ ਧਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਚੜੈ ਸਵਾਈ ॥੨॥੧੫॥੨੪॥
Abichal Neev Dhharee Gur Naanak Nith Nith Charrai Savaaee ||2||15||24||
Guru Nanak laid the immovable foundation, which grows higher and higher each day. ||2||15||24||
ਗੂਜਰੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੫੦੦
Raag Goojree (M: 5) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 500
Only occasionally the terms Dev (deity) adjoins his name.
ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਰੂਪ ॥੮॥੧॥
Gur Naanak Dhaev Govindh Roop ||8||1||
Guru Nanak Dayv is the Embodiment of the Lord of the Universe. ||8||1||
ਬਸੰਤੁ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੯੨
Raag Basant (M:5) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 1192
The terms Das and Jan (servant) adjoin his name more than Dev.
ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥੪॥੧੦੨॥੧੭੧॥
Naanak Dhaas Thaeree Saranaaee ||4||102||171||
Servant Nanak has come to Your Sanctuary. ||4||102||171||
ਗਉੜੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੦੦
Raag Gauri (M: 5) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 200
ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੋਲੇ ਚਉਥੀ ਲਾਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅਵਿਨਾਸੀ ॥੪॥੨॥
Jan Naanak Bolae Chouthhee Laavai Har Paaeiaa Prabh Avinaasee ||4||2||
Servant Nanak proclaims that, in this, the fourth round of the marriage ceremony, we have found the Eternal Lord God. ||4||2||
ਸੂਹੀ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੭੪
Raag Suhi (M: 4) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 774
In one Shabad, Gur Nanak refers to himself as Baba Nanak.
ਹਉ ਖਰੀ ਦੁਹੇਲੀ ਹੋਈ ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੀ ਬਾਤ ਨ ਪੁਛੈ ਕੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Ho Kharee Dhuhaelee Hoee Baabaa Naanak Maeree Baath N Pushhai Koee ||1|| Rehaao ||
I am totally miserable! O Baba Nanak, no one cares for me at all! ||1||Pause||
ਗਉੜੀ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੫੫
Raag Gauri Chaytee (M: 1) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 155
Across the globe people know him with various names, for example: Sri Lankan's call him Nanakachraya, Pakistani's refer to him as Baba Guru Nanak, Chinese remember him as Baba Foosa, Russian know him as Nanak Kadamdar and so on.
Guru Granth Sahib predominantly refers to the 1st Sikh Guru as Gur Nanak, opposed to Guru Nanak or Guru Nanak Dev. So I request, either change the articles name to Gur Nanak or leave it as Guru Nanak.
Sikh Historian 13:06, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
“The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article”, see MOS:INTRO. Recent additions to the article’s lead have introduced material that is neither sourced nor a summary of points covered in the article. A cleanup is necessary. Some of the material which should not be in the lead, such as the verses by Bhai Gurdas, could be put into a separate section, but a verifiable reliable source should be cited for their translation into English; otherwise they infringe one of Wikipedia’s three core content policies - no original research. Apuldram (talk) 10:47, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your feedback. I was reading the main body of the article, and was indeed thinking of pulling in some of the points into the lead. I would do that soon.
As for the material right now, could you please clarify which piece seems unsourced ? Most of my additions were based from the SGPC website biography of Guru Nanak, which should by all means, be treated as an authority. I do believe that the content that I have added is absolutely essential to the lead. But, I agree, the readability can be improved.
As I said, I do plan to do these soon: a) improve the readability, b) import some more content from the main body, c) cite more accurately (since you have raised this issue). Until then, I hope there is no issue in continuing with my modified version, which as I said contains some absolutely essential material that should be in the lead. (As for the verses by Bhai Gurdas, I am not certain on the policy of quotations/verses in the lead. Since you have spent more time here, I would trust your judgement. Please do note that those verses do portray the absolute Sikh view of Guru Nanak's life and mission, so they are important.)
And while we are at it, I would go ahead and add the birth at Nankana Sahib piece back (which you took out, I assume unknowingly while adding back the birthday information).
- The place of birth information was removed because:
- it broke the format of the life span info : (15 April 1469 – 22 September 1539)
- it duplicated the information in the first line of the next section Family and early life. The lead section is to summarise later information, not to repeat it, word for word.
- in other words, it was in the wrong place. Don't worry. I have removed it again. Apuldram (talk) 18:21, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- Your remark that you were "indeed thinking of pulling in some of the points into the lead" appears to have misunderstood what I wrote. We need to remove some of the material from the lead that does not fulfil its function - certainly not to pull more into the lead. Apuldram (talk) 18:21, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- Your question about citing sources. I can't find any references in the article to the SGPC website that you mention. Much of what you have added appears at present to be unsourced. You may find it helpful to read Wikipedia:No original research and in particular the section about using sources. Apuldram (talk) 18:21, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- Couple of points: I do understand that the lead is not meant to repeat what is said later word for word but as a summary. I don't intend to do that. What I intend to do is to add concise summaries of some of those aspects of the life of Guru Nanak that are provided in the article but have not been pointed out in the lead. This fits in to address your remark "nor a summary of points covered in the article". I don't believe there is any rule prohibiting addition of new material to the lead. As for removing material, I believe you are pointing out on the verses of Bhai Gurdas, which I have already responded to.
- Next, The SGPC article I refer to is currently reference number 2. Most of what I added has been alluded to in various parts of the article. I can add citations to each and every sentence I added, but I believe that makes for poor reading. ("Citations are also often discouraged in the lead section of an article"). If you have any concerns, let me know.
- Finally, I would like to add the birthplace in the first sentence. I think it is very important, even though it may be stated again later. Anyway the lead is a summary of the entire article, so it is okay to repeat brief, but important, information such as the birthplace (I am sure there would be several other biographical pages here that would be doing that.) Also, I would like to merge the first two paragraphs (which I see that you keep breaking up). The information that goes into the 2nd paragraph is important and should be stated in the very 1st para. Further, the 1st para otherwise is only 1 sentence, which is a waste of space. Let me know if you have any issues with this. Js82 (talk) 20:02, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- I see you already made some edit. I believe it should say Nankana Sahib as well. I have made the edit. Let me know here if there is an issue. I have removed the death date (it is there in the end), to make the birthday and place go hand in hand (given your earlier concern about the insertion of the birthplace breaking the birthdate-deathdate continuum.) Js82 (talk) 22:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
@Js82: your edits in this article too suffer the poor sourcing and non-RS. Per WP:BRD, please find WP:RS for any text you wish reconsidered and get consensus before adding the text. Since this is systematic problem with your edits, further discussion is on your talk page. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:31, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
"Naam Japna: Meditating on God's name to control your 5 evils to eliminate suffering and live a happy life." First, "5" should be written out - "five", Second, there is no mention in the article, of what these "five evils" are. The article would be improved by correcting these two flaws. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 03:44, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
- see WP:SINGLENAME. Guru Nanak is the name in common use. Apuldram (talk) 09:59, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
I request for the paintings on the Guru Nanak article to be changed because they are not in-line with the ideology of Guru Nanak and the Sikh faith. For example, in the photographs below, Guru Nanak is shown wearing something that looks like a hat with a ceremonial Hindu mark on the forehead.
Regarding the Tilak (ceremonial mark on the forehead) Guru Nanak says,
ਧੋਤੀ ਟਿਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥
Dhhothee Ttikaa Naam Samaal ||
So make the remembrance of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, your loin-cloth and the ceremonial mark on your forehead.
ਐਥੈ ਓਥੈ ਨਿਬਹੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
Aithhai Outhhai Nibehee Naal ||
Here and hereafter, the Name alone shall stand by you.
ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰਮ ਨ ਭਾਲਿ ॥੨॥
Vin Naavai Hor Karam N Bhaal ||2||
Do not seek any other actions, except the Name. ||2||
ਆਸਾ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੫੫
Raag Asa (M: 1) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 355
These verses were recited by Guru Nanak when he denounced the Hindu Jenau ceremony. In these verses he suggests that people should recite and remember Waheguru rather than practicing useless ceremonies such as applying marks on foreheads.
Here is another Shabad from Guru Granth Sahib that denounces the Tilak.
ਪੂਜਾ ਵਰਤ ਤਿਲਕ ਇਸਨਾਨਾ ਪੁੰਨ ਦਾਨ ਬਹੁ ਦੈਨ ॥
Poojaa Varath Thilak Eisanaanaa Punn Dhaan Bahu Dhain ||
Worship, fasting, ceremonial marks on one's forehead, cleansing baths, generous donations to charities and self-mortification
ਕਹੂੰ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਸੰਜਮ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਬੋਲਹਿ ਮੀਠੇ ਬੈਨ ॥੧॥
Kehoon N Bheejai Sanjam Suaamee Bolehi Meethae Bain ||1||
- the Lord Master is not pleased with any of these rituals, no matter how sweetly one may speak. ||1||
ਧਨਾਸਰੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੬੭੪
Raag Dhanaasree Guru Granth Sahib : Page 674
According to Vaaran Bhai Gurdas, applying the tilak is a Hindu practice:
ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣ ਦੀ ਤਿਲਕ ਜੰਞੂ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਲੋਭਾਣੇ।
Sounnati Mousalamaan Dee Tilak Joon Hindoo Lobhaanay.
Circumcision is dear to the Muslims, sandal mark (tilak) and sacred thread to the Hindus.
ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੨੧
Vaaran Bhai Gurdas : Vaar 1 Pauri 1
According to Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhs are not Hindus:
ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥
Naa Ham Hindhoo N Musalamaan ||
I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.
ਭੈਰਉ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੩੬
Raag Bhaira-o (M: 5) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 1136
Regarding the hat, Guru Granth Sahib says,
ਕਾਇਆ ਕਿਰਦਾਰ ਅਉਰਤ ਯਕੀਨਾ ॥
Kaaeiaa Kiradhaar Aourath Yakeenaa ||
Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.
ਰੰਗ ਤਮਾਸੇ ਮਾਣਿ ਹਕੀਨਾ ॥
Rang Thamaasae Maan Hakeenaa ||
Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight.
ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥੧੨॥
Naapaak Paak Kar Hadhoor Hadheesaa Saabath Soorath Dhasathaar Siraa ||12||
Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let the turban on your head be your awareness . ||12||
ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੮੪
Raag Maaroo (M: 5) Guru Granth Sahib : Page 1084
The turban is symbol given by the Gurus to the Sikhs to remind them of the path they have chosen. Along with preaching the principles of Sikhi, the Guru set the example by practicing the principles themselves, so I doubt they wore hats.
These paintings were probably commissioned by the Hindu occupants of the Darbar Sahib during the British Punjab. Obviously, if the Hindu of 1900s could install idols in the Harmandir Sahib even though it is against Sikhi, they could have produced these Hinduised paintings. Sikh Historian 12:45, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Peeta Singh (talk • contribs) @Peeta Singh: Welcome to wikipedia. Your request and explanation does not meet wikipedia's content and image guidelines, specifically WP:OR. We rely on reliable sources, not personal opinions / prejudice / wisdom of individuals. These copyright-free historic images are sourced from reliable sources such as British Library, and are appropriate in this article. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 14:21, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
- @Hghotra7: Are some dates in error? Which ones, and what source do you have for corrections? —C.Fred (talk) 20:05, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
Non-RS, Copyvio and Undue
@Peeta Singh: Welcome to wikipedia. I have reverted your edit that copy-pasted stuff from a website which claims to be copyrighted. Please don't repeat this copyvio violation here or any other wikipedia article. In this and other Sikhism-related articles, such copyvio, or adding undue non-RS content is inappropriate. Please see content policies and guidelines, particularly relating to WP:RS. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 01:53, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
@Diannaa: do we need to admin strikeout the copyvio added by @Peeta Singh with this edit? FWIW, @Peeta Singh has been warned about copyvio issues before. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 01:53, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
- While the original prose is no longer under copyright, the translations are copyright, so I have rev-deleted — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 04:12, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
I'm a new user WP:BITE, I was sincerely quoting the text, if I've made a mistake please guide me. Would it be considered okay if I paraphrased the translations?
Also I'm feeling very intimidated by a few administrators who keep targeting me, maybe because I've been active in editing articles related to Punjab, Punjabi and Sikhism from a Neutral point of view or maybe some other reason. Administrators including respected Ms Sarah Welch have been active on Sikhism related articles for longer than myself and should edit information from a Neutral point of view. For example  when in Guru Nanak article (where Ms Sarah Welch is active), reliable sources in the Guru Tegh Bahadur and Mughal Empire article emphasis that the subcontinent was part of the Mughal Empire WP:NPOV. Respected Ms Sarah Welch please don't take offense and bully me.
Does being a administrator give a user the right to overlook the rules?
I've previously expressed my feelings in words that some regarded as a personal attacks. For those that were hurt by my words, I apologies.
"Special thanks to Dr. Sant Singh for his hard work on the English translation, and freely giving his permission for this publication" 
- @Peeta Singh: It is surprising that you know WP:BITE and mention WP:NPOV, but do not know WP:COPYVIO, WP:PRIMARY, WP:RS etc. The GGS and other historic Sikh texts are long, beautiful texts. No quote farming or undue content from it in this article. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 14:04, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
Vaaran Bhai Gurdas RS and No-Copyvio
ਫੇਰਿ ਬਾਬਾ ਗਇਆ ਬਗਦਾਦਿ ਨੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਜਾਇ ਕੀਆ ਅਸਥਾਨਾ।
After visiting Mecca, Baba (Guru Nanak) traveled to Baghdad and abode on the outskirts of the city.
@Peeta Singh: See my comment above. Nanak's travels are already covered in Journeys (Udasis) section. Bhai Gurdas' is a hagiography, this article already mentions his text. Quoting one or two verses from that text, or some other Sikh text, raises NPOV issues, because why not quote 100s of other verses. We generally should avoid cherrypicked quotes in this article, unless the translation, interpretation and notability is from secondary scholarly sources, and those verses have been interpreted by scholars to be the most significant/notable by Guru Nanak. No personal translations. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 14:13, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2016
|This edit request has been answered. Set the
Change related to Guru Nanaks sister. She was married to Jai Ram not to Daulat Khan Lodi
When Guru Nanak Dev was only Six years old in 1475, Nanaki was married to Jai Ram, a revenue official of very good reputation, at Sultanpur, which is in the present native state of Kapurthala, and was then the capital of the Jalandhar Doab. Nanak continued to live at home.
reference - http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/gurus/bnanaki.html Rsdeosi (talk) 02:24, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2016
|This edit request has been answered. Set the
Guru Nanak were born on full moon in the month of Katak which falls on 27/28 November 1469, every year Guru Nanak Birthday had been celebrated exactly after 14 days after diwali (which is celebrated on no moon day). It had been celebrated for over 500 years.
- Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 08:40, 24 November 2016 (UTC)