Talk:Hummus/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Edit request from 68.193.7.149, 7 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} On the Hummus page, the Palestinian section is extremely short. I have tried many times to edit that particular section. Instead of the simple few sentences, I felt the need to be more detailed (not too detailed). However, when I change that section it is often erased and changed back. This could be understood if I was vandalizing the section, however I assure you I am not. I am only adding to it in order to benefit 'wikipedia-ites' as they search and read, as well as offering a lengthier passage.

Please change this piece: "For Palestinians, hummus has long been a staple food, often served warm.[27] All of the ingredients in hummus are easily found in Palestinian gardens, farms and markets, thus adding to the availabilty and popularity of the dish. In Palestine, hummus is usually garnished, with olive oil, "nana" mint leaves, paprika, parsley or cumin.[28] A related dish popular in the region of Palestine and Jordan is laban ma' hummus ("yogurt and chickpeas"), which uses yogurt in the place of tahini and butter in the place of olive oil. Hummus is served with pita bread and is eaten for breakfast, lunch or dinner." -Hummus Page, Palestine Section

INTO

"In the Middle East, hummus's principal ingredient, chickpeas, have been an important food item for over 10,000 years. They were eaten by people in ancient Palestine before 4000 BC. Chick peas were one of the earliest crops cultivated in Mesopotamia and were a common street dish in ancient Rome. For Palestinians, hummus has long been a staple food. The chickpeas are first boiled alone before the other ingredients are added and it is served hot. All of the ingredients in hummus are easily found in Palestinian gardens, farms and markets, thus adding to the availabilty and popularity of the dish. In Palestine, it is uncharacteristic to find the pasty spread devoid of some type of garnish. For Palestinians, hummus has long been a staple food, garnished with olive oil and "nana" mint leaves, paprika, parsley or cumin. A related dish popular in the region of Palestine and Jordan is laban ma' hummus ("yogurt and chickpeas"), which uses yogurt in the place of tahini and butter in the place of olive oil. Hummus is best served with pita bread and can be eaten for breakfast, lunch or dinner. Due to its history in Palestine, and availability of ingredients, hummus remains to be one of the most popular dishes in the area. "

The change is in wikipedia form.

Thank You

68.193.7.149 (talk) 05:50, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Not done: the reason the page was protected was for trying to insert this into the article. Please gain consensus on the talk page before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Thanks. -Atmoz (talk) 16:30, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

6000 years ago there was no such a thing called Palestine

Just because the area was called Palestine for a certain time does not mean you can use this name for anything history related. The place was called Canaan before it was renamed to Israel. Stop hiding behind "original research". It's no more original research than the fact that the earth is round. TFighterPilot (talk) 18:16, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

If the source says "Palestine in 4000 BC", we should say ancient Palestine, not ancient Israel, the ancient near east, nor ancient Canaan. To do otherwise is original research. If necessary, I'll take this matter to WP:No original research/Noticeboard. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 18:46, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

The sentence in the article is "ancient Palestine", this does not imply that it was called Palestine at that time. He also violated the 1rr. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 18:50, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I left a message on TFighterPilot's Talk page about the 1RR violation, and I encouraged her/him to self-revert. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 18:53, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. So the source says "Finds in Palestine dating from 4000 BC at the latest show that the chick-pea was definitely used as a food at that time." Clearly that wording is referring to the geographic area known as Palestine, not any country or kingdom, modern or ancient. Two things. First, I agree with Malik Shabazz that we should not use ancient Israel or ancient Canaan, however purely geographic terms like "southern Levant" would be acceptable because they are synonymous with the geographic area called Palestine, and don't have any political connotations. Using a less controversial synonym is not original research, and may be less controversial, so that might be something worth considering. Second, changing the source's "Finds in Palestine" to "people in ancient Palestine" in the article significantly changes the meaning, and can imply something beyond the purely geographic meaning the source uses. I would, therefore, propose that this sentence be changed to either: "They were eaten by people in the southern Levant before 4000 BC..." or "Finds in Palestine dating from 4000 BC indicate that people consumed hummus in ancient times..." Either of should alleviate the current issues with the phrasing. ← George ^talk 19:53, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I never suggested to use the name Israel. I suppose southern levant would be the best wording here, since 4000BC predates even the word Canaan. Although I must stress that the word Canaan carries no political agenda whatsoever. Using the word Palestine is both wrong and very political. TFighterPilot (talk) 20:17, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Canaan is both a modern geographic term and the name of a long-dead political entity (a confederacy of city-states), which is why I would avoid it. There was never an empire named "southern Levant", so it can't be confused with anything but a geographic term, which is why I prefer it. But you're correct that 4000 BC predates most of these political entities, so if the reader isn't aware of that it may be confusing to use any term that carries both a political and geographic weight (Israel/Palestine/Canaan/Phoenicia/etc.). ← George ^talk 20:25, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I think your suggestion of southern Levant is a good one, George. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 20:28, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Palestine is not the same thing as southern Levant. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:41, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Per Southern Levant:

The southern Levant is therefore roughly the same area as Palestine and the modern states of Israel (including the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) and Jordan. These terms are used by archaeologists, to avoid taking a modern geo-political stance in a region rife with border disputes.

I think it's an appropriate term to use for 4000 BC. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 20:50, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Disagree, southern Levant could mean Jordan, the geographical term Palestine is not the same area. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:55, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

SD, do you have any better idea? I agree that Southern Levant is a bit vague, but then again, the borders in the middle east as we know them today had no meaning even a hundred years ago, let alone 6000 years. TFighterPilot (talk) 21:02, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Palestine, per the source. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 01:59, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Agree with SD. I don't see why everytime someone comes along to project their political problems with the geographic term Palestine, we should accomodate them by introducing, in this case, Orientalist eupheumisms. The source says Palestine, its a reputable academic source discussing the subject in question, rejecting the wording is pure IDONTLIKEIT. Well too bad. (Sorry TFighterpilot but I'm getting kind of tired of this. Check the archives). Tiamut^talk 08:06, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Question - was there ever a kingdom/country/empire/city-state/etc. named Palestine? ← George ^talk 12:50, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

This whole discussion is unnecessary. The fact that chick peas were consumed in <<whatever you want to call it>> in 4000 bc is simply irrelevant. The whole section on the history of the chick pea and of sesame in the region does not belong in this article at all. Presumably the reason that there is this much rancorous dispute about such a trivial issue is that some Israeli Jews and some Palestinian Arabs each want some sort of historical anchor to "prove" that hummus bi tahini is part of their historical tradition. But that is not sound historical argumentation. The chickpea has been known in a wide area for thousands of years. That area includes the area where hummus bi tahini was developed (our oldest good evidence so far says Damascus) and where it is popular today. So what? I say, delete the whole "history of the ingredients" section. --Macrakis (talk) 15:07, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Well then, do it. I don't see what's so political about Canaan or so inappropriate about Southern Levant, but the solution of keeping it "Palestine" is certainly not preferable. Just remove this section (I prefer not doing it myself, but will if there's other choice) TFighterPilot (talk) 11:08, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

As the one who first added that material about the ingredients: there was no documented data about the history of hummus. I think because it is so much a dish of the people that noone had written about it in ancient 'cookbooks'. So, I looked at the ingredients to see when and where a group of such ingredients were noted - the only way I could see to suggest when in history, and where, hummus might first be noted. (Dumarest (talk) 13:20, 21 January 2011 (UTC))

Dumarest, that probably made sense when we had no sources for the history of hummus. We now have documentation of a 13th-century mashed chickpea dish which does not include tahini (hummus kasa) and of hummus bi tahini itself in the 18th century. And by the way, I've found a medieval Provencal dish of mashed chickpeas without tahini (but don't have the exact reference), but I certainly wouldn't claim that that's evidence that hummus bi tahini is actually an old but unrecorded French dish.... Of course, the availability of the ingredients limits the historical possibilities, but a terminus post quem that comes 5000 years before any solid evidence isn't very helpful. My favorite example (you've heard it before, but perhaps others have not): clearly beef (even minced beef), cheese, and bread have all been eaten for thousands of years, but that doesn't help in figuring out the history of the cheeseburger. I would normally be bold and condense that section, but given the strong feelings on this page, I'd rather discuss first. --Macrakis (talk) 14:37, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

At the time that was put in, there was no documented data on historical hummus BI TAHINI - IF THERE IS NOW DOCUMENTED DATA for the entire dish, then that requirement that I filled is no longer of the same importance, and let that take the place of the ingredients history.(Dumarest (talk) 20:31, 22 January 2011 (UTC))

I suggest Canaan. this is the area name before 6000 years -yona bendelac (discussion) 20:50, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Dumarest, thanks for the reply. I have rewritten the history section, incorporating a very brief version of the history of the ingredients section. Since the chickpea and the other ingredients were used in a broad region stretching from India to Anatolia and probably beyond, and there is nothing linking hummus specifically with any particular subregion, there is no reason to name any particular subregion. I hope this will put an end to the pointless and fruitless dispute above, while also improving the legibility (and conciseness) of the history section. --Macrakis (talk) 22:18, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Arbitration note at the top

What on Earth does this article have to do with articles relating to the Arab–Israeli conflict? Did some joker mistake Hummus for Hamas? A sad world we live in :( 76.164.71.104 (talk) 13:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Hey, that gave me one of the best laughs I've had in ages. 94.170.107.247 (talk) 14:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)Dave

Because this article has been Hijacked for political purposes in the past. It's seen massive amounts of edit warring (Check WP:LAME) and nationalist silliness on many, many sides of the spectrum, generally from people overseas who don't understand the Israeli-Palestine conflict and enjoy demonizing one side. And using an article on a food I hate for this purpose, is still not cool with this chick. --Τασουλα (Almira) (talk) 11:19, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Damascus source

I also removed a paragraph, since it isn't supported by the source. The book only writes that Hummus wasn't prepared in 18th century Damascus, and that the claim that it is a traditional cuisine in Damascus is not supported. The paragraph said something completely different.Avaya1 (talk) 18:07, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Arabic translation in lead

Why was the Arabic translation removed from the lead? Since it is an Arabic word then, its translation should be in the lead. Wikipedia:Naming conventions says: "The native spelling of a name should generally be included in parentheses, in the first line of the article, with a transliteration if the Anglicization isn't identical." [1]. We should follow Wikipedia guideline. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 14:30, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

1. Was the Arabic ever in the lede? It appears in the Etymology section, which is appropriate, since it a source of the English name.
2. Why should the Arabic be in the lede? Reference to specific Wikipedia policies or guidelines would be helpful. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 14:39, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, there was an edit conflict when I typed my response. You're wrong on two counts. First, the word entered English from Turkish (see the Etymology section). Second, the guideline to which you refer is for subjects whose name is in a foreign language. Hummus is an English word (again, see the Etymology section. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 14:48, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

That it entered English from Turkish doesn't mean its not an Arabic word. And no, its not an English word, its an Arabic word that is also used in English. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:15, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Earliest known attestation in Engliah

I have no idea why people are changing this. It doesn't belong in the article at all without a very reliable source stating it is the earliest known attestation. It's easy to find it as early as 1848, and that isn't necessarily the earliest. Please don't reinstate it. Dougweller (talk) 07:22, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. The OED's claim that English 'hummus' was borrowed from Turkish doesn't sound particularly plausible, since hummus is not widely known in Turkey. Just because the OED is a reliable source in general doesn't mean we have to accept it as gospel.

There is also always the question of what constitutes a "borrowing" and what is just a "quotation" of a word in a foreign language. If a text says "The local people make a dish they call 'hummus'", that is not an indication that the word has been borrowed. The line of course is not clear, as the preface of the OED (1st edition) says. --Macrakis (talk) 18:54, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Hummus was known in Turkey in the 1950s. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 22:53, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Varieties

Varieties must be added. For example, Hummus bi Lahmi (lit. translation from Arabic: Hummus with Meat). It is a Hummus dish that comes with small pieces of fried mutton on top. --E4024 (talk) 13:32, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I've consumed that dish. But, lacking citations, it cannot be added.Wzrd1 (talk) 06:24, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Serving methods

The presence of (only) Israeli and Palestinian 'serving methods' (to the exclusion of other regions where the food has been traditionally consumed for many years) seems to be more of a socio-political statement rather than an attempt at all-encompassing coverage. Is this focus on either territory in this article really necessary? Either remove the distinction from the article entirely or provide broader coverage that is actually representative of the food's usage.--Jeffro77 (talk) 04:15, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

The article claims Israelis and Palestinians eat more of it than other Arabs. This is a sourced statement. I can attest that they both eat a lot of it, but so do Lebanese. So then since it is consumed the most in that area, Israel and Palestine should have primacy, but the article could use info on other countries. In fact, I would add, that I came to the article because I was curious about North Africa and other places besides Israel and Palestine. 169.232.131.133 (talk) 00:22, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Controversy section is outdated and too long.

The section should be done away with and perhaps a paragraph about talk of a trade dispute could be placed somewhere else. This article ( http://www.yalibnan.com/2010/05/12/israel-surrenders-in-its-hummus-war-with-lebanon/ ) seems to state that the issue is in the past. "Several years ago the Lebanese trade industry reportedly mulled a hummus lawsuit against Israel for claiming ownership." 94.222.185.66 (talk) 18:09, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Further reading link is dead

Just trying to help. Further reading link is dead. Hope this helps this great site in a tiny way. 24.165.150.125 (talk) 11:10, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I've refreshed the URL. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 01:39, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Can we have a photo of Hummus?

There are five photos on this article, and none of them tells me what Hummus is. I honestly have no idea. I've never eaten it, I've never seen it. But all the photos are Hummus + stuff. I don't know what's Hummus and what's stuff. Is it the white stuff? The yellow stuff? The lumpy stuff?! I have no idea, you can't tell from the photos. So can we have a photo of just Hummus? Hammerfrog (talk) 06:41, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

There's a slightly better image on the german wikipedia: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Noura_Restaurant_%283385997679%29.jpg ... I suggest replacing the image in the history section, because it's near the top and the one with the least visible Hummus. Does anyone know what the white stuff is? It should probably be mentioned, since it is a prominent addon in most picture. - Thomas Auge (talk) 00:31, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Ridiculous Etymology

"The English word hummus comes from Turkish humus meaning the hummus food dip or spread, which in turn comes from Arabic حمّص ḥummuṣ" - This is ridiculous, and actually quite desperate. Thinkfood (talk) 05:51, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

This derivation is given by the OED which is a highly respected source. I have checked online and this derivation is still what is given there and has not changed since the version originally cited..--Peter cohen (talk) 06:09, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think I need a "highly respected source" in this instance. The term, 'hummus comes from Turkish humus, which comes from Arabic hummus' is ridiculous. Turkish humus is irrelevant. I could not verify your claim, you can provide the link if you wish, but that does not change the matter regardless if the OED expressed that opinion or not. Also, this is not an issue whether Hummus comes from Arabic or not, so what is your objective here? Thinkfood (talk) 08:01, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Please read WP:RS and WP:V. A number of editors of this article have various ethnic affinities which may lead to certain views about the interactions between Israelis, Arabs, Greeks, Turks and Armenians in various combinations. They may believe that various "truths" apply and look at the content of Wikipedia through the lenses of these "truths". However, unless these "truths" are supported by respectable and, preferably, non-affiliated sources, then they have no place on Wikipedia. In this case the OED has no apparent affiliation with any of the ethnic groups listed. Therefore when it says the word came into English via Turkish, we should take it on face value. The mention should only be replaced if people produce other sources with equal or greater status in the field of etymology to counter what the OED says.--Peter cohen (talk) 13:41, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Thinkfood that "The English word hummus comes from Turkish humus meaning the hummus food dip or spread, which in turn comes from Arabic ḥummuṣ" sounds ridiculous, what exactly does the source say? Its basically the exact same word. So I think its more accurate to say that it "entered" the English language from Turkish. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 14:34, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree that the OED is fairly reliable in most things - however, that does not mean it is for everything all the time, nor that it has conducted the right research into the subject matter, in this case the notion that Hummus entered the English language through Turkish. If it in fact did, I welcome the information, although it would be best to find out exactly how this happened. Also, have you considered the possibility that what's true for the UK may not be for the US? The OED obviously takes the position from a British perspective. OED says first use was 1955, Websters says it was 1949 so we already have a discrepancy within two reliable English dictionaries. I don't know how this "official date" was established, but I'm sure that both these dates are incorrect in that hummus was obviously consumed in America much earlier, especially considering that many new Armenian, Greek and Jewish, communities sprang up in the States at the turn of the century who escaped the harsh conditions of the Ottoman Empire and WWI. For all we know they could have prepared it in their local communities. Thinkfood (talk) 07:17, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Those Ottomon refugees would have spoke Turkish. But a distinction between what is essentially the same word in two different alphabets does seem silly.169.232.131.133 (talk) 00:13, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Those refugees would have spoken Armenian, Greek and Ladino. Not Turkish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.119.72 (talk) 11:08, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

All this is original research. I agree that the OED's claim that the word hummus came to English via Turkish is strange (as I said below in 2012), and wouldn't be opposed to dropping that claim. It is clear from RS that hummus is an Arabic word; I don't think the OED is especially definitive in its claim that it came into English via Turkish. It seems more likely that it came via Arabic directly (via Lebanese immigrants) or even via Israeli Hebrew, but of course we can't make that positive claim. We can however simply say that the word comes from Arabic. --Macrakis (talk) 16:14, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

John Powell, "Encyclopedia of North American Immigration"

Could someone please give the exact quotation from this source (p.176) for the article's statement Hummus became a popular staple in American restaurants with the Armenian migration from Lebanon to Southern California and the East Coast after the Lebanese Civil War (1975-1990)? For some reason GoogleBooks finds no "hummus" in this book. --46.253.178.161 (talk) 21:19, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Search for the word "Lebanese" to access page 176. As you may have suspected, the source doesn't say that at all. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 02:57, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2014

Please change the heading '===Israeli===' to '===Israel===' for consistency. The other headers are all nominals, so it doesn't make sense to use the adjectival form here. (I don't understand why I can't do it myself as I'm logged in, but I guess that's the Middle Eastern conflict for you). JamesMayfield (talk) 08:00, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Done - the reason you couldn't do it yourself is that your account is not yet WP:Autoconfirmed as you have not yet made 10 edits, albeit your account has been registered for 7 years. - Arjayay (talk) 11:07, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Captions/photos

Hi, I'd like to see the captions improved, and if the images somehow relate to the sections where they appear, that should be clarified in the captions. (I note the canned hummus relates to its section.) Otherwise, if the pictures are effectively a gallery, perhaps they should be moved down to a gallery or collected in the category on Wikimedia Commons. -- ke4roh (talk) 15:31, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit Request on 23 August 2014

Please just correct "spelt" to the proper "spelled" in the first line. Please. It hurts to read.

Semi-protected edit request on 4 October 2014

Fatgirl98 (talk) 04:52, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 05:40, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Incorrect and misleading information

It should be noted that hummus is a 100% Arab dish and has nothing to do with Israel or Israeli cuisine. This also includes falafel and baba ghanouj. 67.170.216.143 (talk) 04:26, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

And what would be the point in that? Stickee (talk) 04:44, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Pronunciation?

Could someone please add the pronunciation of the word "hummus"? I'm especially interested in the Arabic pronunciation. Thanks!

Cotoco (talk) 19:47, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

It is pronounced as Hummus, for the record.elmasmelih (used to be KazekageTR) 20:41, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether you're trying to be funny (in which case your attempt is partly appreciated) or you're being naively sincere. Teşekkür ederim either way.

To clarify, I'd further ask: is the first syllable similar to the English word "whom" or the English verb "[to] hum"? Is the last syllable more like English "moos" or "must" (without the final 'T')? In other words, is this romanized spelling reflective of English-language pronunciation, or a transliteration using more "mainstream European" vowels (where 'u' is similar to English 'oo' in "cool", "room" etc)?

Thanks.

Cotoco (talk) 20:40, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

it's pronounced hoo-moos, not "hummers" 84.128.161.27 (talk) 06:44, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Hummus Day

OK - Someone created Hummus Day whose notability I'm highly sceptical about, but just in case, I'm proposing putting the following condensation somewhere into the article and redirecting Hummus Day to it.

In 2012, as part of a [[hackathon]] in [[Tel Aviv]], the Hummus Day event was launched. Falling on the first Monday after May's full moon, it encourages people to eat hummus on the day itself.<ref>{{cite news|last1=Messieh|first1=Nancy|title=Tel Aviv hosts a Hackathon, aiming to make Israel go viral|url=http://thenextweb.com/entrepreneur/2012/03/07/tel-aviv-hosts-it-first-hackathon-aiming-to-make-israel-go-viral/|accessdate=15 January 2015|date=7 March 2012}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|last1=Young|first1=Miriam|title=Celebrate International Hummus Day on May 13th|url=http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/international-hummus-day/|accessdate=15 January 2015|work=The Times of Israel|date=12 May 2013}}</ref>

If not, then Hummus Day possibly should be AFD'd.

Mabalu (talk) 12:05, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I support this change. Where do you suggest it goes? Maybe we could pop it in a section with "World Record"or something? "World Record" having a section on its own is pretty debatable! westin (talk) 04:33, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2015

Energy content incorrect. 100g hummus has 177 kCal (not 177 kJ). 100g hummus has 740 kJ. 96.233.42.63 (talk) 22:25, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

 Done Verified in USDA source. Correction made. Thank you for catching this! Hertz1888 (talk) 23:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 December 2015

Lebanese

66.131.103.14 (talk) 00:19, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

• Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --Stabila711 (talk) 00:27, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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"Or Other Beans" edit

Hummus contains chickpeas, by definition. An edit was made on the 8th of December, changing the definition of hummus to include other beans. Due to the rise in popularity of hummus in the U.S., a company called "Eat Well Embrace Life," formerly "Eat Well Enjoy Life," has begun making a hummus free food they market as "the other bean hummus". This is legal, because there is no legal definition of hummus in the U.S.A., and the word can be applied to other products. A legal definition of hummus has been sought in the U.S. due to this.

This is merely one new American company, who's site states "Eat Well Embrace Life has Americanized the hummus category by creating hummus from Other Beans." The bold text is highlighted, and capitalized on their site, I have not added the emphasis. The edit in question seems to have been made around the time that this product began being marketed. Regardless as to whether this was a paid edit, or simply an assumption by an American customer due to the U.S.'s lax labeling laws on a new product, it is not accurate, or appropriate for this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skeletontea (talk • contribs) 07:26, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Though I find it annoying to see things called "hummus" which aren't based on chickpeas, and things called "aioli" without garlic, there is nothing new about food names being extended like this. The Nouvelle Cuisine crowd was especially fond of names like "cod loin" and recently we have gotten "cauliflower steak". If it's a real non-fringe trend (and not just one product) we should report it. --Macrakis (talk) 14:59, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

References

Nutritional information

I removed the nutritional information from this article because hummus is a prepared food and thus varies considerably in its composition. As a general rule, Wikipedia, for good reason, does not give nutritional information for prepared foods, for exactly this reason. Another editor put that section back claiming that "hummus is mainly chickpeas". Of course, the Arabic word hummus just means "chickpea", but this article is about the prepared food, which includes variable quantities of tahini, lemon, salt, olive oil, water, etc.

Let's look at two well-regarded cookbooks I happen to have on my bookshelf. One recipe uses 1/4 cup tahini for 1 cup dried chickpeas, while another uses 1/2 cup tahini for 3/4-1 cup dried chickpeas. Since chickpeas are only 2.5% fat, and tahini is 54% fat and only 3% carbohydrates, more than doubling the amount of tahini more than doubles the ratio of fat to carbohydrates in the result. Roden also suggests adjusting the proportions of water, lemon juice, garlic, and salt to adjust the consistency and taste, making the proportions even more ill-defined. Other recipes vary even more, with only tiny amounts of tahini, or large amounts of olive oil, and so on.

This is why the nutrition infobox is silly. It reports that 100g of hummus consists of 64.9g water, 20.1g carbohydrates, 8.6g fat, and has 741 kJ of energy, where even the first digit of all these ostensibly precise numbers is dubious. The detailed listing of vitamins and minerals is equally silly. Just because the USDA reports these meaningless numbers (where did they get their recipe?) doesn't mean that we should follow suit. We should follow the general Wikipedia practice of not giving nutritional info for prepared foods. --Macrakis (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

References

While I agree with you about the (lack of) value of the nutritional information, some readers and editors evidently find it valuable. Falafel became a good article with a Nutrition section and infobox very similar to the ones in this article. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 23:23, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Agree with Malik Shabazz. It's "splitting hairs" to argue that the nutritional information isn't useful information. An encyclopedia should serve the general interest, hopefully being as applicable as possible to the topic, and this is the case for the USDA nutrient data shown for hummus. The ancillary ingredients are in minor amounts, while the chickpea nutrient data are certainly the primary component and relevant to giving perspective to encyclopedia users about the main nutrients contained in hummus. The two entries in the USDA nutrient database are remarkably similar between "home prepared" and "commercial" hummus, well within the preparation differences and measurement error. I find the article nutrient table a useful index of what I'm getting for nutrition by consuming hummus. The table serves a valuable guide for encyclopedia users seeking facts about nutrient content. --Zefr (talk) 00:03, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

I disagree on several grounds.

If it were true that the chickpea component determined the "main nutrients", then why do we see (using the tables in the hummus and chickpea articles) that the fat content of hummus is over 3x that of chickpeas, the salt content is over 34x (going from 0% of Recommended to 16%), and the dietary fiber is about half? (There is also clearly some sort of gross error in the sugar amount, which is shown as 4.8g for chickpeas but 0.3g for hummus.)

There is a huge amount of taste and discretion that goes into making hummus. Some people like it soupy, with large amounts of water; others like it very dry. Some like it very salty, others very little. Some add significant amounts of olive oil; others don't use oil at all.

I am not impressed by the consistency in the USDA figures between "home prepared" and "commercial" hummus. Did the USDA go around to multiple households and sample their home-made hummus? If so, the honest summary would include a range of values, not just one.

This is true of most prepared foods, which is why we should not include nutritional information on them in Wikipedia. --Macrakis (talk) 14:42, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

I understand your objection and feel it's ok to give such a perspective in the article on nutrient values for different hummus preparations if 1) you can find reliable sources for food nutrient assays (there are few of them) - among nearly 9000 foods analyzed, the USDA has only the two reports for hummus as the link above shows; and 2) you can write a paragraph for review first here at Talk on the nutrient variations of concern if the content has WP:WEIGHT; see the guidance section under WP:NOTEVERYTHING. --Zefr (talk) 15:15, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Draft

Explanation (not suggested for the article): The nutrient data below are from Condé Nast, Nutritiondata.com, a reliable republication from the USDA National Nutrient Database version SR-21 (2008); the 2015 version is SR-28 where some individual nutrient values have changed (not appreciably) due to additional measurements since 2008 and/or newer methods. For editor revision and comment:

Nutrition

Chickpeas, the main ingredient of conventional hummus, have appreciable contents of dietary fiber, protein, B vitamins, manganese and other nutrients. As choice of ingredients in hummus preparations may vary across cultures and consumers, differences in nutritional content are possible, depending on the proportions of chickpeas, tahini, salt, olive oil, lemon juice or other components. For example, one commercial preparation (ingredients undefined) providing 166 calories in a 100 gram amount had 24% of the Daily Value (DV) for dietary fiber, 16% DV for protein, 21% DV for folate, 16% DV for sodium, 39% DV for manganese and 14-26% DV for several dietary minerals. A homemade hummus (ingredients undefined) providing 177 calories had corresponding values of 16% DV for dietary fiber, 10% DV for protein, 15% DV for folate, 10% DV for sodium, 28% DV for manganese and few other minerals with significant content. Fat content for both preparations, typically from use of tahini and olive oil, was 13-15% of total amount, whereas other major components include 65% water, 14-20% total carbohydrates, including 0-0.3% sugars and 5-8% protein. --Zefr (talk) 20:27, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Added to article in Nutrition section. --Zefr (talk) 15:09, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

It suffices to say that recipes vary.

The two recipes used as a sample here are pretty arbitrary, and both are American.

The fundamental problem remains: prepared foods almost never have meaningful nutritional analyses. --Macrakis (talk) 14:59, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Better to have some general information rather than nothing per WP:CCPOL. Let's edit rather than blanking out some reliable content on nutrient composition. --Zefr (talk) 15:12, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Your edit of the Nutrition section was good, Macrakis. As a bookmark on the sodium issue (which is valid and notable to retain in the discussion, but I'll go along with it out), let's keep in mind that salt is normally an ingredient for many hummus recipes and sodium is an essential nutrient (i.e., required for physiological functions and health) with Europe recommending 1500 mg/day intake and FDA recommending not more than 2300 mg/day (one teaspoon daily). --Zefr (talk) 14:42, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Sodium is of course an essential nutrient. But deficiencies are rare in the developed countries, and it is common to consume more than is recommended. The article you point to says, "pick the food with a lower %DV of sodium", so it is peculiar to call hummus an "excellent source" of sodium, as though a little is good and a lot is "excellent". --Macrakis (talk) 15:50, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, on a topic like sodium intake, where the developed world consumes too much of this nutrient, the adjectives "excellent", "rich", "high" or "good" to describe content in a food lead one to assume a recommendation, whereas these are defined food labeling terms for Daily Value guidance (see Nutrient Content Claims) in the US and Canada. --Zefr (talk) 16:03, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

"High in" is the other phrasing allowed in that document, and does not have the same implications as "excellent source of". In any case, the sodium content of hummus is presumably highly variable, though I'd guess (not a WP:RS!) that most of the salt in most preparations comes from the salt added to canned chickpeas. --Macrakis (talk) 01:36, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 July 2016

Hummus was invented by Lebanese people, and so the origin is Lebanon. Greyc (talk) 21:32, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Disagree. It is sufficient to say the origin is in the Levant, as several sources used in the article state. --Zefr (talk) 22:13, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

No sourcing provided for the proposed change. Hertz1888 (talk) 22:39, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2016

You guys are saying this article is subprotected to avoid vandalism that I think is amazing, but this article is saying Hummus is egyptian when actually the information is unknown and some sources will say it's israeli. Also says PALESTINIANS enjoy it, what about Israelis. And Palestineans ARE Israelis, as there is no such country called Palestine, wether you like it or not, agree or not, the country is Called Israel and the citizens are Israelis (Jewish or Arabs).

Please make the article impartial. It is partial at the moment. 203.31.116.2 (talk) 03:11, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. It's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. -- Dane2007 ^talk 03:32, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Hummus

The opening paragraph refers to hummus as a "food dip" (and where the dip page says dips are "condiments"). This is innaccurate. In a vast swath of the Levant and even into Africa, Hummus is most often eaten as the main course of a meal. Yes, it is traditionally eaten by dipping pita into it rather than with a spoon, but it forms the bulk of the meal. I ain't citin' any sources, cuz I don't need to, cuz it's just true. And this is non-controversial even in the Middle East: Arabs, Jews, and others, please come together long enough to have my back on this. 68.175.11.48 (talk) 19:53, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Actually, our article on the Sky cites four sources to say that it's blue. WP:CITE and WP:Verifiability are taken very seriously around here. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:30, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

don't get distracted, my suggestion is an improvement to the article, you now know something true about hummus you never knew before. As to citations, the purported blueness of the sky NEEDS citation as the sky is not actually blue, it only appears to be blue from the surface of the planet during the day; its blueness disappears as you increase elevation or set the sun. Now you also know something about the sky. 68.175.11.48 (talk) 15:37, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Ok. One url/source needs to be replaced. --Zefr (talk) 17:27, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

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Hertz revert

Hertz, you basically removed the only part of the text that was notable, and that is James Zogbys comment:https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hummus&action=historysubmit&type=revision&diff=817581783&oldid=817567254

You also removed it based on: "It's ridiculous to speak of stealing foods, rather than adopting them, and defamatory to label it as genocidal", thats your opinion, but this is James Zogbys opinion and it was a quote attributed to him, just because you dont like the quote does not give you the right to censor facts from wikipedia. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:00, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

I prefer the way Hertz1888 edited the statement as it now stands with a degree of neutrality. The previous edit by Supreme Deliciousness introduced inflammatory unencyclopedic language, even if via a tweet, per WP:SOAP and WP:NOTNEWS. --Zefr (talk) 17:37, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Without James Zogbys comment the entire text is completely non notable. You can probably find several chefs claiming Arab food is isareli, it non notable, what makes this situation notable is a widely known person like Zogby reacting to it. Please explain how having a quote by someone and attributing it to him is not neutral. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:15, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

A culture section in a food article does not open the door to quoting defamatory political opinion (which SD confuses with fact in invoking censorship). Zefr is right to call it soapboxing. The remaining portion may be of some interest to illustrate a cultural clash, but as it is based on a tweet (and is likely non-notable as well) I will remove it per WP:SELFPUBLISH. Hertz1888 (talk) 00:11, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2018

Change Swedish to German (language) in the captioned image of canned hummus. 2605:A601:42C6:AF00:BC08:50C8:E856:6CAC (talk) 07:11, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ToThAc (talk) 15:10, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

I started to make the requested change, but I think I see both German and Swedish text on the label, as well as Arabic. Does the caption even need to mention a language? Just plain Bill (talk) 15:48, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Kikärt dip is in Swedish. The two lines above are in German (or something close). Kichererbse is German for chickpea, and Kikärt is Swedish for chickpea. The top line is Arabic (and the bottom line is probably transliterated Arabic to English). The Rosetta Stone of Hummus.Icewhiz (talk) 16:13, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

 Like — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 01:59, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Quite correct. Btw, some of the translations for hummus are obviously not done by native speakers, this translation to Danish (the third from the top) is hilarious: "chick peas" → "hen farmer", "sesame paste" → "glue sesame" (!) "natural spices" → "spices, of course". And I don't think any Danish speaker knows what "Opmagasinere i en gold afræk opstille" means...LOL. (It reminds me of some chicken wings seen in a super marked in Egypt, marked: "100% vegetarian". Somehow you lose some trust of labels after that...) Huldra (talk) 21:43, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

 Like — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 01:59, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Hommus

Can you provide clarification in the article because Hommus is the accepted spelling in Australia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkN0062 (talk • contribs) 05:20, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 August 2018

Hummus is also very popular in Lebanon and that should be considered to put in the article. The lebanese cuisine is very famous for its Hummus preparation. Charbel youssef (talk) 11:54, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Danski454 (talk) 12:13, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Is Hummus Levantine or Arab

Another comment on the “not Levantine” discussion. In the Bible book of Ruth chapter 2 verse 14, there is a reference to dipping bread in חֹמֶץ which maps letter-for-letter onto the Arabic spelling حُمُّص. However, the Hebrew letter צ (or ץ in its end of word form) can serve as either the Arabic letter ص or ض, which causes an ambiguity as to the meaning of this biblical word, is it vinegar as per the English translation of the King James Bible, or is it the familiar hummus dish. In the original Hebrew version of the Bible this is not clear and Hebrew scholars are divided on this issue without a definitive conclusion one way or the other, meaning that we cannot preclude the possibility that this was already an Israelite and Moabite dish back in biblical times. In any case, it is obvious that the cultivation of the chickpea in antiquity predates all the known modern forms of Levantine or Middle-Eastern cultures, including older references such as that of the Bible. Hence, the term Levantine is correct and cannot be construed as appeasement to a political pressure. Greenme17 (talk) 10:59, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

The story that the passage in the Bible could refer to hummus is an invention of newspaper columnist Meir Shalev. It is a WP:FRINGE theory, and although it has been repeated by various people, such as cookbook author Joan Nathan, it is not supported by any serious scholarship in the field. Previous mentions of it have been removed from the article for that reason. Also, as noted above, prehistoric cultivation of chickpeas does not prove anything about the time and place of the development of hummus. The best information we have seems to be that it was sometime roughly around the 13th century CE. --IamNotU (talk) 11:45, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi, it is very obvious that the modern "Hebrew" word for chummus is not an authentic Biblical Hebrew word. Every word in Biblical Hebrew is based on (depending on which scholarly opinion you side with) a 1, 2, or 3 letter shoresh (root). Looking at this word it should be related to "heat" or "robbery" and it is not; so it's easy to conclude it crept into modern Israeli usage simply because many of the residents have roots in Arab lands and the country itself is in an Arab region. There is no political agenda in my statement and I don't understand why there should be any contention. The country of Israel is new and their language is a synthetic hybrid and has many, many foreign influences. There is no Israeli cuisine, it is too new to have developed any. This is an Arab food, as is falafel, which are enjoyed by people all over the world.185.186.250.14 (talk)

Chickpeas or Other Beans

The opening paragraph of the article says that the Hummus dip is “…made from cooked, mashed chickpeas or other beans…” This cannot be correct, the main ingredient of this dish can only be chickpeas. This is so by definition, as the Arabic word حُمُّص and its equivalent Hebrew word חומוס, describe the chickpea bean itself, and the hummus spread/dip dish obviously derives its name from the name of its main ingredient. The “Etymology and spelling” section of this articles acknowledges this fact, and in doing so introduces an ambiguity. As an aside, my interest in this article was raised by having eaten recently in a restaurant “lentil hummus” made purely of lentils plus seasoning; tasty but obviously incorrect as trade descriptions go. To call a spread prepared from other beans “hummus”, is akin to calling all makes of vacuum cleaners Hoover, and of course there are many other funny examples of such colloquial distortions. Greenme17 (talk) 11:21, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Egyptians like to make their hummus with fava beans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.39.0 (talk) 18:48, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

not Levantine

I know, this word was chosen to appease Israelis. But it is simply a fact that Hummus is a food of the Arab world, not just the Levant. Hummus itself is an Arabic word, not Hebrew or anything else. حمص / Hummus means "chickpeas" in English, it has no meaning in Hebrew besides of naming this Arab food. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.85.142.70 (talk) 19:03, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

It is called Levantine in reference to its origin, not as a delimiter of its spread since. As a parallel, spaghetti is eaten in many places outside of Italy but it is still an Italian food. --Khajidha (talk) 22:45, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Agree with Khajidha that the Levant is sufficiently broad as a geographic region to include northeast African and eastern Mediterranean region, shown here. The key to the geographic origin of hummus is the geographic origin of chickpeas, which – because chickpeas were cultivated in the Levant some 10,000 years ago – means the precise origin of making hummus is undetermined, and could have been anywhere from Turkey to Egypt, with many countries in between claiming its origin, according to this BBC report. --Zefr (talk) 23:57, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Zefr, thanks for adding the BBC citation. A couple of comments, if I may: The term "Levant" in contemporary usage generally doesn't include Turkey or Egypt. If you look at the map you linked to in the context of the Levant article, it notes that the wider area, equivalent to the eastern Mediterranean, is a "broad, historic meaning". The citation given says:

More recently the term "Levant" has developed a much more precise and particular geographic meaning to designate the lands (Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, and Jordan) and islands (Cyprus) of the eastern Mediterranean. This specific meaning is probably a product of the French Mandate of 1920 to 1946, which called Syria and Lebanon the "Levant States." --Michael Gagarin, The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Greece and Rome, Volume 1.

If you want to indicate an area that includes Turkey and Egypt, then "Levant" isn't the best term to use, as it won't normally be understood that way. I noted that the BBC article doesn't use the word at all.

Secondly, I think you're correct that "the precise origin of making hummus is undetermined..." and that is generally supported by the BBC reference (though some people do give opinions about it). However, regardless of the meaning of "Levant", the sentence you added: "Following generally the geographic origin of cultivation and cuisines of chickpeas, the origin of hummus may have occurred in any of several Levantine countries dating back centuries" I think is not supported by the source. It seems to imply that the origin of hummus bi tahini can be determined as located somewhere in the Levant following or because that is the geographic origin of the prehistoric cultivation of chickpeas. While both may be true, the events occurred roughly ten thousand years apart, so no direct causal link can be made, and the BBC article doesn't make that claim. At the time of the development of hummus bi tahini sometime between the 13th and 15th centuries, chickpeas had been cultivated from Europe to India for several millenia. --IamNotU (talk) 16:08, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

As far as the OP's comment, presumably they want to change "is a Levantine dip" to "is an Arab dip", as they tried to do with Shawarma,[2] but can't because the article is edit-protected for that very reason. It seems to be related to the ideology of the "hummus wars" that the BBC article describes, and the general Arab-Israeli conflict. Whatever one's thoughts are about it, Wikipedia is not about to weigh in on that in the lead sentence and delcare hummus to be exclusively Arab, as that would not adhere to the neutral point of view policy. That policy doesn't mean that Wikipedia "remains neutral" - if the vast majority of reliable sources said that hummus was an Arab food, we could say that too. But they don't, so we need to present "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic". There is already the "Culture" section that touches on that issue, which could certainly be expanded. The OP is welcome to do so, following the general content policies. --IamNotU (talk) 16:20, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

IamNotU - fair points. Please go ahead and edit accordingly. --Zefr (talk) 17:09, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

There is no evidence that the development of hummus was independent of the Jewish population of the region, and there is good historical basis to assume that the development of hummus predates the arabization of the region. Additionally, the first documented consumption of hummus was among Egyptians, a group that does not identify as Arab. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.39.0 (talk) 18:52, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2019

change "Spelling of the word in English can be inconsistent.[5] "Hummus" is the most common spelling in both American and British English.[6][1][2] The spelling "houmous" is however common enough in British English to be also listed as a less common spelling in some UK dictionaries but not, for example, in the Cambridge online dictionary.[1] Some US dictionaries also list other spellings such as humus, hommus, and hommos,[6] but not Merriam-Webster, for example.[7]"

to "Spelling of the word in English can be inconsistent.[5] "Hummus" is the most common spelling in both American English.[6][1][2] The spelling "Houmous" is however common in British English to be also listed as the most common spelling in some UK dictionaries and all major supermarkets. Some US dictionaries also list other spellings such as humus, hommus, and hommos,[6] but not Merriam-Webster, for example.[7]"

Examples bellow Main spelling in collins dictionary https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/houmous Houmous Spelling for Major uk supermarket Tesco: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/260083981 Houmous Spelling for Major uk supermarkets and major newspaper: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-4443364/Sainsbury-s-plunged-HOUMOUS-crisis.html Houmous Spelling for Major uk supermarket Sainsburys: https://recipes.sainsburys.co.uk/recipes/snacks/houmous Houmous Spelling for Major uk supermarket Marks and Spencer: https://corporate.marksandspencer.com/media/press-releases/archive/2007/15022007_marksspencerproductwithdrawal Houmous Spelling for Major uk supermarket Waitrose: https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/shop/Browse/Groceries/Fresh_and_Chilled/Cooked_Meats_Deli_and_Dips/Dips/Houmous

The section stating "less common spelling in some UK dictionaries but not, for example, in the Cambridge online dictionary.[1]" was removed because it was incorrect, Houmous is listed in this free online version of the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary, but this is a monolingual learner's dictionary not a British English dictionary. 2A00:23C4:2FC5:EE00:8574:949F:DCF2:558E (talk) 09:10, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

 Partly done: Regarding houmous, I removed the section stating "less common spelling in some UK dictionaries but not, for example, in the Cambridge online dictionary" because it was incorrect. I changed the wording of statements about what is the "most common spelling", because it was not specifically stated in the sources, to be about what the major dictionaries give as the primary spellings, which is.

I checked the major dictionaries, all of which list "hummus" as the primary spelling, including the American-published American Heritage Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, and Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary (via Dictionary.com), plus the British-published Oxford English Dictionary, second edition; Oxford Dictionaries, Cambridge Dictionary, and Collins English Dictionary. The "COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary" was the only one I found that gave houmous as the primary spelling, with humous or hummus as variants. Mentioning this in the article seems to be undue weight, given the many other citations that are all in agreement. I reduced the number of citations of dictionaries in the article, see WP:TOOMANYREFS.

The citations of local supermarket ads are not reliable sources for word usage, and would constitute original research, so I did not include them. Although it's not a reliable source, Google ngrams [3] shows that hummus is orders of magnitude more common than houmous. There doesn't appear to be sufficient reason, based on available reliable sources, to make a statement that houmous is verifiably the most common spelling in British English. --IamNotU (talk) 17:00, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

References

Houmous

I would argue that the spelling houmous has become the predominant one in the UK, despite what the dictionaries say. All three major supermarkets use this spelling on their product packaging, as well as major restaurant chains like Nando's. Maxí (talk) 17:03, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Agreed...another example of Americans ruining the original word. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.204.77.144 (talk) 04:20, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

I have seldom seen the 'hummus' spelling in the UK, except on products of American origin. Literally every supermarket I can find has their products branded 'houmous': Sainsbury's, Morrison's, Asda, Aldi, Tesco, &c. I suggest editing the section on spelling to show the 'houmous' is the most common spelling in the United Kingdom. Oniony (talk) 13:32, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

All the transliterations we are seeing in this article are misleading and irrelevant, since the correct pronunciation uses the gutteral "ch" sound. Rather than argue about the correct transliteration which is somewhat impossible to agree on given it's a transliteration, you should figure out a way to present it in such a way that people don't keep saying humus or hummus and sounding like complete idiots.185.186.250.14 (talk)

"houmus is a Middle Eastern dish made from chick peas, sometimes spelt houmous.The Financial Times Style Guide" Colin Inman

The point is, Hoummus is Arabic for chick peas, and the vowel ou rhymes with cook, book, look NOT with sum thumb come The gutteral h at the beginning does not matter - there are three different variants in Arabic. If you are talking English it is not so important to get the consonant right, but the Style Guide is authoritative, for UK English. The American spelling misleads people to use the wrong vowel. RPSM (talk) 18:56, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

The Dictionary referenced does actually list both terms, so the article is inaccurate Houmous has always been the predominate term in the UK. Bellow is a comprehensive list of every uk supermarket listing it as Houmous. British Dictionary Collins also lists it as the main term: , waitrose: , morrisons : , m&s: , the daily mail , Aldi uk: , lidl uk: , coop: sainsburys , asda , Tesco — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:2FC5:EE00:8574:949F:DCF2:558E (talk) 09:34, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

References

US and Europeans make a mistake with this dish

They blend olive oil into the dip. Authentic recipes do not do this. Hoummus is served with olive oil floating on top. Blending it into the dip just makes it oilier. Tastes heavy and is unhealthy. Some Lebanese bloggers point this out. For a reliable authority see Claudia Roden. Or any Arabic language video. There is already oil from the tahina. RPSM (talk) 19:28, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Made with chick peas or other beans

Hoummus is Arabic for chick pea and if Hoummus is on the menu in a restaurant, you can't serve other beans. If it's not a chick pea dip, it is not Hoummus. The point of leaving a few beans whole as a garnish is to signal which bean the dip is made from.

In the case of fava beans, the dip is called Foul meddamas. There is a Greek dip called fava made from yellow lentils. RPSM (talk) 19:47, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I've reverted the edit from 2015 [4] where this was added. It appears to be a case of an unsourced addition that WP:HIJACKed a source, as it's not found in the source, which was already in the article. --IamNotU (talk) 04:41, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2020

Hummus was originally created in lebanon! 141.138.185.29 (talk) 10:31, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jack Frost (talk) 11:40, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Merge proposal

A duplicate template over on Hummus tehina has prompted me to suggest that that article might be better placed in the Regional preparations section here, given that the section already contains significant similar content (related to preparation in Israel). So, merge on the grounds of duplication of scope? Klbrain (talk) 21:53, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

• Support. "Hummus tehina" isn't a widely-known dish. It's only the name of one particular recipe for basic hummus, from chef Michael Solomonov's cookbook, served in his Israeli restaurant in Philadelphia, which received some media attention. The phrase is not commonly used in Israel, where it's just "חומוס" - "hummus". I don't think we need a separate article for individual hummus recipes, even if they are well-known. Nor do we need separate articles about Syrian-style hummus, Palestinian-style hummus, Lebanese-style hummus, etc., as they are all essentially the same thing. I put a citation of the Solomonov book in this article, the other two citations are just to basically standard hummus recipes. I don't see anything else in the article worth keeping. The statements in the lead sentence are not verified in the source and the "Preparation" section is again just a standard description of hummus. I think the article should just be deleted. --IamNotU (talk) 23:19, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
• Support Agree completely. There is nothing particularly distinctive about Hummus tehina. For that matter, when are we going to merge in Israeli style hummus? It is mostly about promoting variants served in particular restaurants and is very poorly sourced. Though it has 110 footnotes, almost all of them are about individual restaurants, and the "Popularity in other countries" section is completely bogus. The only sources which even use the term "Israeli style hummus" are about Solomonoff's restaurant. It lists restaurants world-wide which serve hummus, but in no cases (except Solomonoff) is it identified as specifically "Israeli hummus". See Talk:Israeli style hummus.

That is, the article is a WP:POVFORK. --Macrakis (talk) 14:50, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

• Support – It appears that that article could be summarized in no more than a sentence or two.   — TARDIS builder^💬     13:59, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
• Support. Logical and readily incorporated into this article as a regional dish, as proposed. Zefr (talk) 14:06, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

I went ahead with a WP:BLANKANDREDIRECT. I didn't see any content worth keeping, and there were problems with WP:NPOV. As I noted above, "hummus tehina" isn't a "regional preparation", it's only the name of a recipe in an American cookbook that got good reviews. I could find no evidence of the term being used in Israel; if it is, it's only the Hebrew spelling of the Arabic "hummus bi-tahina", which in English is just "hummus". Hummus made in Israel is just hummus. --IamNotU (talk) 23:24, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

What's the meaning of this?

Can someone check this out: why is there two more wiki entries about hummus here? Hummus tehina, Israeli style hummus I don't see any reason for these entries other than to make the food israeli more than it is Arab/Levantine food. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.180.23.172 (talk) 18:16, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Hummus tehina is addressed above, I've now redirected it to this article. Israeli style hummus may be more complicated, see the comment above and the discussion at Talk:Israeli style hummus. --IamNotU (talk) 00:14, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

hmmm... what's next? Israeli style sushi? American style sushi? where is this BS going? These two pages should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.180.23.172 (talk) 09:12, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Israeli style hummus is not complicated. There is one chef who uses "Israeli style hummus" (ISH) in his cookbook and his restaurant. None of the other restaurants in the article list ISH on their menus; in fact, some of them don't have hummus on their menus at all!

The various variants of ISH are either individual restaurants' creations, or they parallel standard Levantine hummus variants.

The article tries unsuccessfully to define ISH as a particularly smooth hummus, but then many of the variants are not smooth.

It is a pure nationalist WP:POV fork. The editor who's written most of the ISH article has also created other nationalist POV forks like Limonana (now merged into Mint lemonade). He also wrote the Shirin polo article as though it was a uniquely Persian Jewish dish, when in fact it is a standard Persian dish which is also popular among Persian Jews (see my edits with RS). --Macrakis (talk) 14:00, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

I was actually just about to write something very similar on the other talk page, but ended up working on correcting the false statements in the laffa article instead. I completely agree. The question is what to do about it. Can/should we just delete the whole thing? Or do we need to go through it to preserve any valid, sourced content and merge it here or to other articles? Is there actually any valid, sourced content? I've been meaning to help deal with it, but have been putting it off because the article is very long and it irks me just to read it, as does much of the other writing of that editor. --IamNotU (talk) 15:16, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Well, I will start by re-deleting the list of restaurants, which is completely bogus, as I've already said on that Talk page.... Then maybe you can remove other content that is clearly wrong or redundant, and we can go from there. I suspect we'll end up whittling it down to very little that needs to be merged in with other articles. --Macrakis (talk) 16:18, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree with ip79 and Macrakis, the "Israeli style hummus" article is a hoax article and must be deleted.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 17:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

I continue to whittle down Israeli style hummus. Besides being full of OR and SYNTH, it also has huge amounts of non-notable content (a variant served at one restaurant). And even leaving aside the content, the style is atrocious, with 10 words being used where 1 would do and multiple repetitions of the same thing over and over. --Macrakis (talk) 23:02, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Kill it with fire, nuke it from orbit, and salt the ground it stood upon. That's a pointless mess of poorly written trash that shouldn't be taking up space on our servers. --Khajidha (talk) 14:28, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Reading its sources closely, it is clear that there is only one chef that makes "Israeli style hummus". Everything else in that article was about varieties of hummus in Israel, none of which are called "Israeli style hummus" by any reliable sources. I have edited the article accordingly. At this point, it seems to me that the article can be deleted based simply on non-notability. We don't normally report on one chef's creations unless they're widely taken up by others. --Macrakis (talk) 16:14, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

What remains on the page (assuming it is worth having at all) should be moved to the page about the chef in question. --Khajidha (talk) 11:24, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Supreme Deliciousness, Khajidha, and IamNotU: Good idea! I have created a merge discussion on Solomonov's page and I hope you'll all contribute to it. --Macrakis (talk) 19:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for working on this. I left a comment in the merge discussion. I don't think "Israeli style hummus" should be redirected there though. Solomonov's hummus recipe is not actually named "Israeli-style hummus" in his book or restaurant, nor the New York Times article, but "hummus tehina" (which currently redirects here). It was only described that way by Bon Appétit when it reprinted the recipe. For that reason, I can't really agree with this edit: [5] that changes the subject to focus only on Solomonov. Also, there are in fact some reliable sources that use the phrase "Israeli-style hummus" unrelated to Solomonov, to refer to hummus as prepared in restaurants in Israel, and/or recipes meant to emulate that. However, unlike sources that may be biased even though they are considered reliable, Wikipedia articles must follow the WP:NPOV policy, which the "Israeli style hummus" article fails to do – all the way down to the title. We can't describe the hummus in Israel (with a higher proportion of tahini than some other regions being the only property consistently mentioned) as being "Israeli hummus" or "Israeli-style hummus", when other reliable sources contradict this, referring to it for example as "Palestinian-style hummus" or being essentially the same as the hummus typical of southern Lebanon. The article should be deleted at AfD on the general principle that just because a dish is popular in a certain country, it doesn't follow that it originates from or exclusively belongs to that country, and that content or article names suggesting it does - often based on a nationalist point of view - are against policy. It would be good to clarify this, because the same principle should be applied to other articles by the same editor, such as Israeli pita. --IamNotU (talk) 16:23, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

References

The 'External links' tab should be moved

In my opinion, the 'External links' tab within the article should be moved to the very bottom of the article as in its current position it is inconsistent with other Wikipedia articles in my opinion. Xboxsponge15 (talk) 00:43, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Nicely spotted, thanks; moved external links section below references, consistent with MOS:LAYOUT. Just plain Bill (talk) 01:36, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Etymology of the Word: Hummus

Hello everyone,

Please help me post this information correctly (regrettably, I have NO time to learn how to do so).

The origin of the word borrowed for/ascribed to the chickpeas or garbanzo beans is by way of their preparation (when soaked in water overnight to soften with salt, a process which turns them "SOUR"!). The adjective word in Arabic for sour is: HAmuth (حامض). The SAME adjective word is used in Arabic's twin sister, Hebrew, where it used to be pronounced in the very SAME manner but modern Hebrew pronounced it as: HAmuts. a related Hebrew word is the HAmets (the LEAVENED substance-which, during the Jewish Passover Holiday, tradition requires meticulous burning thereof in each & e very Jewish household & the consumption of ONLY unleavened substance (i.e. bread, with the Passover unleavened bread version of which is Matsah [ding.] or Matsot [pl.]/Matzos-in Ashkenazi Hebrew spelling/pronunciation)commanded as the ONLY bread allowed for sonsumption during the 7 days of the observance of Passover to commemorate the exodus of the Israelites from the land of Egypt from bondage/slavery to freedom in a hurry, during which they had NO time to wait for the bread dough to rise-or, to leaven...

AK63 (talk) 09:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

None of the reliable sources I can find agree with this etymology. Without that, it can't be included in the article, sorry. --IamNotU (talk) 15:23, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Just coming back to this, I did find some evidence of possible roots of the Arabic word in the words for "sour" or "fermented" in Aramaic. I'll see if it can be added. However, I don't see evidence that the fact that Hebrew has a similar word for "sour", possibly from the same root, or any of the information about bread, chametz, etc., is relevant to the hummus article, sorry. --IamNotU (talk) 12:15, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

I'll be interested to see what you find. But the ultimate etymology of hummus isn't really relevant. Here it is used to mean 'chickpeas', nothing more, nothing less, as far as I can tell. --Macrakis (talk) 14:38, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

I already added the source, Nişanyan Sözlük, for the Aramaic words. I'm not sure that it's necessary to put it in the article though. Maybe in the chickpea article. --IamNotU (talk) 18:34, 18 January 2021 (UTC)