Talk:Hunyadi family

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May I alert you to the fact that the map subtitled ‘The wars and conquests of Matthias Corvinus’ contains the date 1784 associated with a yellow coloured arrow, pointing at Temesvár, showing an ‘Ottoman invasion’ (I would use the word incursion rather than ‘invasion’ to denote the movement of Ottoman troops). Please correct the typographic error. Thank you. Magister P — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.176.105.141 (talk) 00:03, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


The spelling of the name of Janos Hunyadi's father[edit]

User:Borsoka I appreciate your edits here, it would be great if you would bring Hunyadi family to GA status in the future, like you did with several articles before.

I noticed the following formula in the added text: [...] knight Vajk (who is known as Voicu in Romanian historiography [...] and I was wondering if you changed your opinion expressed at Talk:John_Hunyadi/Archive_5#Father.27s_name (where you said Personally, I would delete the "Vajk" version, even it is based on Cambride History. It is totally anachronistic and makes an artificial connection between the late 10th-century pagan name of the future Saint Stephen I of Hungary and the late 14th-century name of Hunyadi's father.). Or it is just a error that you did not observe? 79.117.184.91 (talk) 22:15, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank for your message. No, I only insist on the version provided by reliable sources. The "Voicu" form is also anachronistic. Borsoka (talk) 03:07, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I agree, Voicu is the Romanianized version of the name, in the same extent as Vajk is a Hungarianized name. I am confused about your phrasing ("Vajk (who is known as Voicu in Romanian historiography"), which seems to imply that Vajk is the "real" name , while Voicu is the altered name.
I think we must seek a compromise regarding Ro and Hu names on this kind of articles (where Hu soreces use Hu names and Ro sources use Ro names), in order not to create a mess.86.126.35.40 (talk) 06:56, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I think the method of duplicating his name would be funny, therefore I suggest that we use the neutral form Voyk. Borsoka (talk) 07:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I agree to your proposal. I also think Radul (the form that I found in the original donation charter from 1409) should be preferred over Radol (the name used in Hu hisoroography); the Ro historiography uses the variant Radu. 79.117.174.50 (talk) 09:11, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Here is the earliest source (1409) about the Hunyadi family: ".....servitiorum preclaris meritis Woyk filii Serbe aule nostre militis per ipsum nostre Maiestati....." "....baronum nostrorum consilio ac nove nostre donationis titulo et omni eo jure, quo eadem ad nostram spectant, memorato Wo(y)k militi et per eum Magas et Radol....." ".....carnalibus ac Radol patrueli fratribus...." [1] Fakirbakir (talk) 09:21, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
A higher resolution of the document: [2], if you learnt medieval graphology. :) --188.143.79.20 (talk) 10:24, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
I do not get it. Why do you think the earliest source used the "Radul" form? Fakirbakir (talk) 10:53, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
User:Fakirbakir I admit my mistake, I had the impression that Radul was the original variant. But I guess that we should also use Woyk instead of Vojk. 79.117.174.50 (talk) 10:54, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes, we should. I hope Borsoka can help us to solve this problem. I have found another (quite old) source about the same charter and its spelling is different.[3] So I am very unsure. Fakirbakir (talk) 10:59, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
I guess that is a spelling mistake, the rest of sources use the form Woyk. There is also an 1435 act cotaining the text: «Egregius JOHANNES dictus OLAH, filum condam Woyk de Hunyad aule nostre miles» [4] 79.117.174.50 (talk) 11:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
WP:Name. We should prefer the form used in English literature. We could choose between Vajk or Voyk (see the list of referenced books). I think the latter is more neutral. Borsoka (talk) 04:35, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
User:Borsoka what do you think about the content of the Vajk (given name) article? Is it right to say that Stephen I of Hungary and J.H's father had the same name, given that in 15th century documents the latter one's name is spelled Woyk or Voyk? Avpop (talk) 10:25, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Actually, I do not know anything of the assumed connection between the two names. (Actually, we know that St Stephen's original name was Voic, because this form was recorded by Thietmar of Merseburg. Borsoka (talk) 10:18, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Regent or Governor[edit]

John's title is a bit confusing. Was he a governor or a regent? According to the article of Regent of Hungary, the "regent" title was established only in 1920 (however its subsections mention Hunyadi). Fakirbakir (talk) 11:17, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

He was regent of Hungary with the title "governor" (Engel 2001, p. 288). :) Actually, I think sooner or later a separate article should be written for the Governors of Hungary (Hunyadi, Horthy and two others). Borsoka (talk) 12:30, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Contradiction regarding J.H.'s year of birth[edit]

1405 or 1406 here, and 1407 in John Hunyadi article. 86.126.32.215 (talk) 15:12, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

  • Thank you for your above remark. The two dates are fixed. Borsoka (talk) 13:07, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Anachronism in picture description[edit]

"Hunyad Castle (in present-day Hunedoara, Romania), after which the family was named" is not precise.

  • "Corvin Castle was laid out in 1446" (from Corvin Castle article)
  • John Hunyadi's father also was called "Woyk de Hunyad" (see source) 79.117.174.50 (talk) 11:13, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Only the current Renaissance-styled Hunyad Castle was laid out in 1446. The family was named after the Hunyad estate, received in 1409. de Hunyad = Hunyadi. --188.143.79.20 (talk) 11:21, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for the above remarks. I modified the description of the picture. The Latin "Woyk de Hunyad" means "Voyk Hunyadi". Borsoka (talk) 04:32, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Hunyadi family article also contains the phrase On this day, Sigismund granted Hunyad Castle (in present-day Hunedoara, Romania) and the lands pertaining to it to his court knight Voyk and to Voyk's four kinsmen. implying that the castle existed in 1409. 79.117.163.9 (talk) 07:48, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes, a castle existed there already in 1409. The case is very similar to that of Buda Castle which was erected in the 1250s, but was continuously rebuilt and rebuilt till the 1900s. We cannot create separate articles for the Buda Castle in 1251, in 1252, in 1253, .... in 2014. :) Borsoka (talk) 11:03, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
If a castle existed before 1409, the History section of Corvin Castle article should be updated, cause currently it affirms that "Corvin Castle was laid out in 1446" 86.127.31.188 (talk) 12:51, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Other relatives[edit]

According to http://asztrorege.blogspot.ro/2010_10_01_archive.html John Pongrácz of Dengeleg (who had the dignity of Voivode of Transylvania) was the son of George Pongrácz of Dengeleg.

Also Marina is another sister of John Hunyadi mentioned by Nicolaus Olahus in his work Hungaria 86.127.22.113 (talk) 12:37, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

I am planning to add his sister to the family tree. However, I do not understand why should we add all his nephews, great-nephews, nieces, .... etc. Borsoka (talk) 14:10, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
John Pongrácz of Dengeleg was the cousin Matthias Crovinus and held the important rank of Voivode of Transylvania, I consider he is worth mentioning. 14:36, 25 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.127.20.244 (talk)
Thanks. He is now mentioned in a note, together with his brother. Borsoka (talk) 03:32, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

User:Borsoka - can you please tell me in what document is Anikó Branicskai mentioned? Thanks in advance. 79.117.172.15 (talk) 22:25, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Kubunyi says, she is mentioned in a "document" of 1429 (Kubinyi 2008, p. 10). Borsoka (talk) 03:06, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Are you sure Kubinyi says she was Radol's wife? This site refers to a woman named Anko who was was Vojk Jr's widow and whose name appears in a 1429 manuscript. 79.117.179.132 (talk) 05:45, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, her name is fixed. Kubinyi writes: "A document issued in 1429 refers to Ankó Brancsikai (Barincskai), the widow of László Vajk Hunyadi. Ankó Brancsikai appears to have been married to Radol-László, who bore the name of his more distinguished elder brother Vajk in his family name. (An alternative view is that hte document simply failed to indicate László as the brother of Vajk.)" (Kubinyi 2008, p. 10) Borsoka (talk) 06:30, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Apparently the original name from the Latin document did not contain any accent (just Anko, without ó) [5] 86.127.27.202 (talk) 07:31, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it is apparent. However, the reliable written in English which is cited uses the "ó" form. Borsoka (talk) 08:33, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Pop is also a reliable author and he uses the form Anca [6] 86.127.25.211 (talk) 10:04, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
In a book written in Romanian. Kubinyi's work is published in English. Borsoka (talk) 10:58, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
It has been also translated to English :) [7] 86.127.10.96 (talk) 12:13, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
We can assume that Pop's Anca is identical with Kubinyi's Ankó Brancsikai, but we do not know. Borsoka (talk) 12:44, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Here and here there are other Hu-language sources which uses the name Anko, without accent. 79.117.183.47 (talk) 12:52, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes, a book written in Hungarian. I do not insist on the accent, but books written either in Hungarian or in Romanian can hardly substantiate English usage against a peer-reviewed book published in English. Borsoka (talk) 12:59, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Armbruster[edit]

I added this but I got an error. Can someone please help me? Also, I don't know the isbn of the book. Avpop (talk) 06:38, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Wallachian[edit]

The proper English-language term for "Vlach" is "Wallachian". "Vlach" is a foreignism that does not exist outside of an academic context. I do not know how things work in other languages, but in English, the term is Wallachian, and that's that. RGloucester 01:55, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

I am not a native speaker of English, but I guess that, for instance, John V. A. Fine Jr, who uses the term Vlach many times in his books, knows the proper terminology. Wallachia was a principality in the territory of present-day Romania. Its inhabitants were obviously Wallachians. However, Vlachs, or Romanians, lived/live in many other regions, including Moldavia, Transylvania, Banat, Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Thessaly... Borsoka (talk) 02:16, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hunyadi family/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jonas Vinther (talk · contribs) 15:49, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

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With the article meeting the GA-criteria I'm of course going to pass it. Nice job people. :) Jonas Vinther (speak to me!) 16:18, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

"Extended" coat of arms?[edit]

What does "extended" coat of arms mean in this context? Combined? Chicbyaccident (talk) 12:20, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

As far as I can remember, the Hunyadis' coat-of-arms (depicting a raven) was extended in 1453 by a new shield. Borsoka (talk) 13:47, 30 August 2017 (UTC)