Talk:Iriomote cat

Cat meat?!

"The meat of the cat is considered to be a delicacy on the island", quoth the article. While this may have been true at some point in the remote past, I think modern-day Iriomoteans would be aghast at eating their cute fuzzy-wuzzy symbol of mucho tourist dinero. I certainly didn't see any restaurants even hinting at the possibility when I visited. Jpatokal 03:29, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm trying to find a link to it, but I was reading a Japanese article where an elderly gentleman was being interviewed, and he said something about having eaten some of the cat meat many decades ago. In modern times, the practice is, I'm fairly sure, illegal, but the reality of people eating the cats seems to at least be recent enough that it's within the living memory of some people. -Rikoshi 22:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I am a researcher currently working on the Ryukyu islands. I have performed over hundred systematic interviews with locals (not yet published), and I can second the initial sentence to some extent. Many locals have been eating historically eating Iriomote cats as "nabe" until the 60s. The region is historically poor (it is still the less developed prefecture of Japan nowadays), and the inhabitants had been eating Iriomote cat mainly for subsistence. I cannot comment on the meat being a "delicacy" though. -ChriVin (talk) 11:08, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Picture

I don't think that this is actually a picture of this cat. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.27.139.82 (talk) 22:10, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

I agree. That was a picture of a normal Leopard Cat, but the Iriomote Cat looks different. I removed the picture. Calathan 20:24, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Current edit-miniwar

I know it's probably futile to ask, and really, at the current pace, it's an amusing diversion from some of the other items on my watchlist, but... could we please try discussing whether or not to include the suborder in the infobox over here on the talkpage instead of just having the slowest editwar in Wikihistory about it? Rdfox 76 13:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Edit warring

Could we please ease up on the multiple reverts and discuss the edits here, please? I believe a couple of folks broke 3RR in the past day, which is a bad thing. I see the edit summaries say "look here," but it would be best for everyone to discuss the situation here on the talk page and sort it out. Tony Fox (arf!) 06:56, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed to talk here. There simply is no justification for capitalizing the words against WP:MoS, and for that matter, against English language rules of capitalization. I would be most happy to take this to RfA, and see that WP:BIRD ruled upon. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 07:02, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I support taking this to RfA, this has been going on for some time with no resolution. Bugguyak (talk) 14:34, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Long overdue for a RfA, I also support that. Beyazid (talk) 20:42, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

from Beyazid

I engaged the same lowercase vs. capitals on species common names with Uther on the bobcat and cougar pages over the course of several months. There was a consensus reached for lowercase. WP:BIRDS does not apply here and there are plently of ornithologists who feel it doesnt apply to birds either. He is engaging in unwarranted reverts again for some reason. I stand behind your edits. Bugguyak (talk) 19:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, many many editors have engaged in this topic also. You can go to almost any well-known megafauna article and if the article is capitalized there is almost certain to be a comment thread or multiple comment threads in the Talk pages pointing out how that doesn't make sense. You can go through the edit histories and see where many editors have changed it to be right, only to be reverted, almost entirely by just UtherSRG -- with never more substantive justification than the bizarre WP:BIRD. It certainly is a mystery to me why this argumentation still strangely is offered as if it's in any way meaningful. Beyazid (talk) 20:39, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Add me to that. These shouldn't be capitalized. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 18:28, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#misapplication of WP:BIRD

Please see the above link because I have filed a request for arbitration against User:UtherSRG. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 22:15, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to pull out my crystal ball here and say that I expect the RfArb will be declined as premature, as little discussion has occurred, there hasn't been an RfC or any other effort at DR, and the RfArb looks to be malformed, anyway. (Not that I'm not thinking this needs to be resolved--we have people blowing past 3RR over a friggin' CAPITALIZATION dispute here. If this doesn't get nipped in the bud soon, we're gonna be looking at a new entry on WP:LAME here...) Rdfox 76 (talk) 22:33, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

• I see. And how exactly are you personally proposing to help the situation? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 22:52, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

(e.c.) Coming here from the above-mentioned arbitration case, I'd like to kindly warn all involved that edit warring is not the proper way to settle content disputes; indeed it may get everyone here blocked without further notice should they continue. To resolve this dispute, please refer to the procedures outlined at WP:DR instead. Requesting a third opinion may be appropriate here. Should dispute resolution fail, a brief note at the incidents noticeboard would be more appropriate than requesting arbitration, which is an absolute last resort to be used only where other methods of resolution have failed. Sandstein (talk) 22:34, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Meanwhile please note uther going in reverting in defiance of all this, like the brain-dead Energized bunny-here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iriomote_Cat&curid=276518&diff=195453324&oldid=195415366 Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 02:05, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

A request for comment was left here. I have moved it to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mammals#Capitalization re-visited where centralised discussion is taking place. BigBlueFish (talk) 00:06, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

The dispute is over whether various words should be capitalized or not? ie. "cat" "wildcat" "leopard" or Cat "Wildcat" or "Leopard". It is not clear whether WP:BIRD or Wikipedia:MOS#Animals, plants, and other organisms applies, as they seem be offer different answers to the question.--Slp1 (talk) 22:36, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Centralised discussion

Please all note that an appropriately centralised discussion has been formed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mammals#Capitalization re-visited. I suggest all discussion nonspecific to the Iriomote Cat is directed there, in the aid of a more productive, reasoned and followable discussion. BigBlueFish (talk) 23:42, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Famous Irimoto Cats

The Irimoto cat has gained some fame by being featured prominently in Azumanga Daioh. Should we mention that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.42.184.121 (talk) 22:09, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Not on this article dealing with the animal, see Wikipedia:Notability#Notability guidelines do not directly limit article content. --Tombstone (talk) 07:21, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

It is indeed already mentioned on the Japanese-language page. It's not entirely out of the question to put it here. Evan1975 (talk) 01:40, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

What about tokyo mew mew? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.5.154.113 (talk) 16:46, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Sources provided for further expansion !

I just spent one hour to look for and select interesting and authoritative sources for this article. Those PDF studies are on the top of this talkpage (shortcut : Talk:Iriomote Cat/to do). Most of these sources are just 10 pages long. If there is someone interested by this funny Iriomote cat, let's roll ! Reade one of these study, and create a 15-20 lines summary, to add it into this wiki article ;).

I myself return to my 'field of expertise' : China, Chinese history, etc. Yug (talk) 15:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Translated Japanese article

I translated the Japanese article into English. Any sources and information in the preexisting English article that didn't appear in the Japanese were also incorporated. I also added some information I was able to find from some of the source texts. I tweaked the local names of the cat as well to be more direct translations. Bahbahbethsheep (talk) 12:02, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

On the territory of the Yamapikaryaa

I just reverted an edit by 76.105.3.142 stating,

Logically this does not follow. Using the same formula and figures given by the source since the island is 290 Sq Kilometers and it says that Iriomates have a range of 6,5 Sq Kilometers therefore the island could only support 46 ~Iromate cats (290/6.5 = ~46). Since there are currently around 100 cats and in the past over 200 Iromote cats either the translation is in error or the source is flawed. I appologize as I don't know wiki guidelines, for how to fix this error so hopefully a knowledgeable Wikipedist can do so,

The numbers being referred to deal with the yamapikaryaa cryptid, not with the Iriomote cat itself. Yamapikaryaa are cats that have been rumored to live on Iriomote and are said to be larger than Iriomote cats, hence the numbers saying that the island is only large enough for about ten individuals.

Furthermore, and I'm not a biologist so don't take this as fact, I'm quite sure that while male cats in general tend to have solidly-defined territories, female cats are more willing to share overlapping territories with both males and females. This means that doing simple division, such as above, to arrive at the number of cats a given area can support will give you an inaccurate number. If someone more knowledge than me happens across this comment, please feel free to jump in and correct or add on to that statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Purplepumpkins (talk • contribs) 12:38, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place. To clarify the paragraph logically does not follow.

The problem is using the same methodology/ logic that they used to conclude that yamapikaryaa is limited to 10 individuals one must conclude that the Iriomote cat is limited to 45 individuals. Since all data from multiple sources within this article concludes 89 to 250 Iriomote cats live on the island, the methodology or translation of that paragraph is brought into serious doubt.

Put simply

Their statement is logically stated as...

Proposition A: "yamapikaryā require 30 square kilometers for its range"...

Proposition B: "Iriomote Island is about 290 square kilometers"...

Therefore they conclude: "only about ten yamapikaryā could live on the island."

Using the same Iriomote cat data that they calculated the yamapikaryā data above, and applying the exact same logic we have...

Proposition A "Iriomote cat will have a range of 6.5 square kilometers"...

Proposition B "Iriomote Island is about 290 square kilometers"...

Therefore using the same logic we must conclude that: only 45 (290/6.5) Iriomote cats could live on the island.

However all data within this wiki shows that Irimote cats numbers are in the 89-250 range, with the very opening paragraph stating "It has been classified as Critically Endangered by IUCN since 2008, as the population size is fewer than 250, is declining, and consists of a single subpopulation.[1] As of 2007, there are an estimated 100–109 individuals remaining.[2]"

Thus it appears that the last paragraph in the article is either mistranslated, or incorrect. Thus I question weather this paragraph should be included...

"In general, an increase in body size results in an increase in range for any given species.[33] An Iriomote cat will have a range of 6.5 square kilometers; comparing the Iriomote cat's size to yamapikaryā's, it has been estimated that a yamapikaryā would require about 30 square kilometers for its range. Iriomote Island is about 290 square kilometers, meaning only about ten yamapikaryā could live on the island.[33]"

RandomU — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.3.142 (talk) 20:00, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

My apologies for misunderstanding you. It certainly appears that the 6.5 square kilometers stated under the Yamapikarya section flies in the face of other information on the cat. Even earlier in the article itself, under Home Range it states that, "Their home ranges overlapped extensively in all periods. The periodical home range of the male was 0.83–1.65 km2 (0.32–0.64 sq mi) in size, and the resident female's range was 0.76–1.84 km2 (0.29–0.71 sq mi)."

The corresponding Japanese article from which this article was translated also makes the same error, however as I don't have access to the source (it's a book in Japanese that I most sincerely doubt my local American library would carry), I can't check to see where the seemingly erroneous numbers came from. For the time being, and until someone interested can go to their local Japanese library to view the source (it's イリオモテヤマネコの百科, for those interested), I'll be deleting that final paragraph. —purplepumpkins (talk) 04:48, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Taxonomy: species vs subspecies

I have just edited the modifications done by 173.66.252.37, who wrongfully turned the Iriomote cat into a species on its own. What's more, he did so without modifying the rest of the article, thereby introducing total incoherence. The author cited a webpage of an NGO, the Feline Conservation Federation, to justify his statement that the Iriomote cat would have recently been recognized as a species. First, this is nothing more than a webpage, and not a peer-reviewed scientific publication. Second, although the content of the webpage is indeed ambiguous as it mentions the cat as "Prionailurus iriomotensis" and states that "there are no sub-species of the Iriomote cat, since they only live on Iriomote Island", it does not say that the cat is a species on its own. Moreover, clicking on "More about the Iriomote Cat", a new webpage from the same website opens, in which it is explicitly written that "recent genetic analysis confirms that the Iriomote cat and the Tsushima cat are subspecies of Leopard cat".

I would really like to set the record straight once and for all, because as scientist, I am very much annoyed by the nationalistic motivations that have been pushing some people over the last decades to see the Iriomote cat as a species, thereby denying the abundant literature on the subject and the overwhelming opinion of the scientific community. I don't need to provide any reference to support my position, as appropriate references are already given in the wikipedia article. Still, I have added Masuda and Yoshida (1995) and Warren et al (1999) to complement the existing references and make sure that this situation does not happen again. -ChriVin (talk) 11:49, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits both on this talk page and the article itself. I'm just a layperson who has been watching the article for a while, so it's nice to see someone with more expertise join in. If you see anything else in the article that needs updating, please feel free to hop in again. -- purplepumpkins (talk) 15:29, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

dogs

ok, so i keep removing that dogs prey on them because: Dogs can be heard sneaking by the cats. Dogs aren't as fast. Dogs can't climb trees. The cat can defend itself. Even if it does catch it, it won't EAT it. Therefore not a predator. I will stop editing the wiki if you just remove "predatation by dogs" and put that they KILL them, not prey on them. They kill them, which is true. I will never bother you again if you change it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.159.114.22 (talk) 15:25, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

What you personally believe in this regard doesn't actually matter. There are multiple reliable sources that state Iriomote cats are subject to predation by dogs. And summarizing reliable sources is all we do here. (As an aside, as a conservation ecologist I can tell you that several species of small cats in Asia and Africa are routinely preyed on by domestic dogs. Don't confuse your average feisty moggy and friendly pooch with a small cat in a shrub savannah with a pack of hungry mongrels on its trail.)

Please stop inserting your mistaken assumptions. I have left you a warning on your talk page; things have been explained here again. If you continue to disrupt the article, I'll talk to the responsible people about getting your blocked from editing for a time.-- Elmidae (talk) 16:51, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Temporary semi-protection requested, as the IP shows no sign of wising up.-- Elmidae (talk) 18:30, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

dogs

Yes, me again. Look, even if dogs do eat cats (they don't) if they kill them they still could eat them, PLUS (and listen to this) even if you think they DO eat them, not all dogs do. So it would be MORE accurate to just put "kill" as a lot of(well, all, is what i think) dogs just leave the cats. So are you going to put "prey on or kill" or just "kill" which can leave to preying on? Also, i'll never let this go, as i'm autistic, so i'll do anything possible to make it right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.159.114.22 (talk) 19:15, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Blackmail is not one of the supported resolution mechanisms at WP, sorry. You have been told multiple times that reliable sources contradict your personal opinion. You have been warned multiple times (now by an admin) to stop edit-warring. The next edit of this kind is likely to get you blocked, after which your autism will just have to sit it out.-- Elmidae (talk) 19:25, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

the dog thing again..

Hi. My ban for doing nothing has come to an end. I have thought hard, and I want to say this: There is no proof dogs eat the cats. Show me some, if you want. But iriomote cats usually don't go deaf, and the only way a dog can catch it is if it's sleeping and deaf, as they can hear in their sleep. Hardly any dogs want to kill cats, and even fewer manage. When dogs kill cats, they always leave them. Unless it is what you think, that they eat them. But that would mean it is almost never that the kill them, so it would be a lot more accurate to put that they are killed. Otherwise you are saying that it's not a threat, them being killed by dogs. If this is made right I will never bother you again. I did not right this ton of text for nothing. TheFeralCat (talk) 15:45, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

@TheFeralCat: - Okay, I will lay this out for you one more time.

• First, your personal opinions do not matter in this regard. Your ideas about dog predation on cats are, not to put too fine a point to it, mistaken. As I have noted above, dogs prey on small cat species all over the world. Your experiences with house cats and house dogs do NOT translate globally. But hey, my opinions in this regard don't really matter either, because
• we are merely summarizing reliable published information. If there are sources that say this kind of predation happens, it goes in; if not, it doesn't. The article provides two such sources (labelled 9 and 14 in the article: , ). Admittedly, they are in Japanese and I can't read them either. So I went to the special trouble to seek out an additional
• English-language source: see Table 2 in that one, where it states, "Threats to the Iriomote cat: Predation by dogs: Serious". Predation, by definition, including eating. I'm adding that reference to the article as well.

These are the references, and Wikipedia runs on references. Please accept that and lay off. Otherwise I assume you will have the next ban coming somewhat more speedily this time.-- Elmidae (talk) 16:58, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Ok, another reason: killing can lead to predatation anyway, so it would be more accurate. My cat's mother was killed by a dog. Cats are killed by dogs. I've never heard of them eating them. TheFeralCat (talk) 17:18, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

References

dogs again

Listen, please. Killings can lead to predatation. It would be more accurate, as they just kill them, but you think they eat them too. First let me show an example... My dog (dead) would pull you over to get at some crumbs. She loved eating. It was her favourite thing. She chased cats, but never intended to catch them, like most dogs. Her second favourite thing was killing things. She tried to drown lambs, killed birds, rabbits, and other animals. But despite loving eating she never ate what she killed. If a dog that loves eating wouldn't eat a bird it killed, it wouldn't eat a cat. And I've not finished yet. My own cat's mother was killed by a dog, I have heard plenty of accounts of dogs killing cats. They all have one thing in common. The cat is deaf and sleeping at the same time. I doubt Iriomote cats live long enough to go deaf, but some must. Or if the cat is injured or lame. This is very few, and very few dogs even kill cats. This means hardly any eat cats. Also, these are domestic dogs, so they don't need to eat cats. So this is the reason you need to put that they kill cats to be right. TheFeralCat (talk) 15:47, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

This is not about your mom's cat, your severely limited personal experience, or your obsession with expanding the same to unconnected topics. This is a question of referenced sources vs anecdotes. I'm DONE with arguing about it.-- Elmidae (talk) 16:17, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

New source for diet

Hi everybody, I found a newer source on the Iriomote cat's diet than the one given in the text. It used stomach content analysis and arrived at different results than the ones given here, but I currently don't have the time to integrate it. I'll leave the citation here if someone else finds the time to add it to the article: Nakanishi N. & Izawa M. 2016. Importance of frogs in the diet of the Iriomote cat based on stomach content analysis. Mammal Research 61, 35–44. DOI 10.1007/s13364-015-0246-9

Robuer (talk) 06:12, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Yaeyama language translation

I don't have access to the work cited in the translation of yamamayaa and the other Yaeyaman terms, nor do I have access to a specifically Yaeyaman dictionary, but my understanding is that in Ryukyuan languages, unlike Japanese, yama tends to be used for various wild areas (including, but not limited to, mountains) and in my Okinawan dictionary (the 1963 国立国語研究所資料集5『沖縄語辞典』) ’jama- is listed as a prefix indicating that something is wild or feral while 'jamamajaa or yamamayaa specifically is defined as 野良猫, "feral cat".

I've refrained from making an edit because I don't want to base a retranslation on a resource for a related language (even for a specific term in a closely-related language), and ultimately even if the Okinawan definition of the term is the same as the Yaeyaman one the current translation is more off than entirely wrong, but I'm also concerned that translation may have come about by reading Yaeyaman as if it were Japanese, so I'd like someone with better access to Yaeyama language resources or more knowledge than me about the language to review this, if possible. Mkpstr (talk) 16:28, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Trinomial name and conservation status

Keen observers will note that the evidence provided for the Iriomote cat's conservation status is an out of date (errata) record from the IUCN's Red List database. Note the statement in the header of this webpage that "this concept is no longer recognised" made about "Prionailurus bengalensis ssp. iriomotensis". The current (c. Aug 2024) IUCN Red List species record for Prionailurus bengalensis (https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/223138747/226150742#assessment-information) observes that recent classification of the 'Iriomote cat' by Kitchener et al. (2017) identify them as part of the Prionailurus bengalensis euptilurus subspecies. Furthermore, the IUCN Red List database doesn't include a separate conservation assessment for this subspecies. The Iriomote cat's (P. b. euptilurus') conservation status should then match that of P. bengalensis; that is, Least Concern (LE). 240B:C010:4C4:5225:509A:D27F:52D6:18BC (talk) 04:22, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

The IUCN assessment is for the Iriomote cat. It seems to me the assessment of its conservation status is independent of whether it is treated as a species, subspecies or population. The assessment looks at numbers, habitats, and trends for a group of cats in a particular region. Changing the taxonomy doesn't change how vulnerable it is, although it will probably change the priority of conservation efforts.  —  Jts1882 | talk  09:54, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

I will have to disagree with you there. Conservation status is completely dependent on a population's designated species or subspecies, and also by who the assessing authority is. Please bare in mind the difference between a locally designated conversation status, such as those made by The Act on Conservation of Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (1992, Japan) or those found on The National Red List project, and an internationally designated status found in the IUNC Red List. The current (c. Aug 2024) wikipedia article incorrectly attributes the conservation status of "Prionailurus bengalensis ssp. iriomotensis" as being 'Critically Endangered' as evidenced by this out of date IUNC Red List page. The critical issue is that the IUNC no longer considers "P. b. iriomotensis" as a recognised sub-species, though the two local authorities mentioned above still do (see the National Red List entry here). I could designate my own pet cat as a novel sub-species with a population of 1 and assess it as 'extinct in the wild'. This does not give my assessment any credibility. There currently exists a conflict of taxonomical assessment between the IUNC, who favour the description of Kitchener et al. (2017), and the Japanese authority, who favour the description of Imaizumi (1967). Whose authority should this wikipedia article utilise? I argue for the international IUNC assesment. As such, the current page is incorrect on two counts: first, 'Iriomote mountain cat' is not a distinct subspecies, but is rather a local population of Prionailurus bengalensis euptilurus (see the IUNC article here), and second, neither P. bengalensis nor P. b. euptilurus are designated by the IUNC as 'Critically Endangered', but the entire species is designated as 'Least Concern'. There is no independent conservation status assessed for either P. b. euptilurus or the Iriomote local population in the current IUNC article. Please check for yourself. This does not remove the ability for the local authority to designate the Iriomote population as 'Critically Endangered'. Nor, as you have rightly pointed out, change the priority of conversations efforts towards this population. It is, however, misleading to use out of date information and to prioritise local designations over the more internationally recognised one. The current conservation efforts of the Iriomote mountain cat population reflect the local communities' values and priorities, not any taxonomical description. However, the IUNC conservation status of 'Least Concern' does reflect that if, like the Crested Ibis, the Iriomote mountain cat went completely extinct from Iriomotejima, its local population could be re-seeded from another population. This is the reality that the IUNC Red List exists to communicate. Or is there something unique about the cats on Iriomotejima? The biologists say: no. 133.106.176.187 (talk) 06:01, 20 August 2024 (UTC)