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Italian art in Dalmatia

My recent edit concerning the contribution of Italian art in Dalmatia has been reverted as qualified as WP:UNDUE. There is no contest that Giorgio da Sebenico and Luciano Laurana contributed to Italian art. There are discussions (sterile, by the way) if they were Italians or not but no-one contest they contributed to Italian art. If the issue is of soucing this can be solved immediately. Concerning the WP:UNDUE, how this can be considering those artist contributed to achievements currently in the catalogue of UNESCO ? --Silvio1973 (talk) 10:54, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

@Alessandro57, it is very possible that my edit is WP:UNDUE, but please discuss first instead of removing the edit. If the issue is of sourcing this can be sorted out immediately. I am very open to change my mind but I am not open to see my (sourced) edits reverted without prior discussion. Please do not insist or I will have to report you. --Silvio1973 (talk) 11:03, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Hallo Silvio, please read WP:BRD. Reverting an edit is not a hostile act, but just a way to start a discussion, but BRD dictates that after the revert the last stable version should stay, not the version in discussion. About the matter, none contests the contribution of the Italian art in Dalmatia (actually, Dalmatian art IS largely Italian, and when I go to Istria, I have always the impression to be in Venice :-)). I just say that citing Laurana (who, BTW, was an architect, so should stay in the Architecture section :-)) and Giorgio in a section which is barely 500 words long, gives to them and to the art in our (ex-)Adriatic lands undue weight with respect to the mainstream. On the other side, citing them in an Article about Italian renaissance architecture or Venetian art would be a must. Alex2006 (talk) 11:16, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
N'importe quoi... Please note that I have inserted less than 1 and half line of text (for a total of 39 words, less than 7% of the section). Considering WP:UNDUE to cite briefly that Italian art had significant influence in Dalmatia would really be UNDUE. Entire cities like Trogir and masterpieces like the St. James Cathedral exhibit massive Italian influence (to write the less). Spending one and half line of text is appropriate. Mind well that I did not overreferenced the two lines exactly not to dip into the WP:UNDUE. You misrepresent the facts, no-one discusses here that Michelangelo cannot be compare to Laurana. No, here we discuss if it deserves to be briefly remembered that the influence of Italian visual art is significant out of the modern borders of Italy. Of course if you do not consider Venetian art as Italian the matter is different. Do you think we should ask for a 3O in this respect? --Silvio1973 (talk) 11:22, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, 7% is too much, since Dalmatia is peripheral in this respect, and we are talking about 500 words. An encyclopedia article should be balanced, and should not be given too much weight to what the sources consider secondary aspect. I know that you are very interested in eastern Adriatic, but a Wikipedia article is not a repository for our particular interests. To read a balanced approach, I advise you to read the article about Italy on wiki:it, and to see how many times Istria and Dalmatia are cited in the part devoted to the arts. Alex2006 (talk) 12:47, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Silvio, I am leaving in 5 minutes, and I will be offline for some days. See you (hopefully :-)) next week!Alex2006 (talk) 13:09, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Alex, what I am interested in is not relevant. What is relevant is how appropriate is the insertion of the aforementioned edit. In view of the massive influence of the Italian visual art on the Eastern shore of the Adriatic a brief sourced reference does not seem being WP:UNDUE. And of course I might be wrong. Do you think we should involve other users in the discussion? --Silvio1973 (talk) 14:09, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
I think it's undue, it isn't the custom in articles about countries to focus on a country's contribution to the culture of a territory they once controlled, however large that may be. If we mention Dalmatia then that opens the door for a mention of every other territory that was once controlled by a government based in Italy; there simply isn't enough space in this article for all that to fit in. The mayor of Yurp (talk) 19:09, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Fellow editors, the idea is not to mention every part of the world that was controlled by a Italy or any of its proto-states. But in the case of Dalmatia we face at least two UNESCO heritage sites (St. James Cathedral in Sebenik and the city of Trogir) and an endless list of other minor sites/works. And please appreciate that focusing on the actual control of the territory itself is unrelevant to the matter. What matter is the actual contribution of Italian art, not the fact that the territory was controlled by an Italian (or proto-Italian state, because Dalmatia with the exception of Zadar was NEVER under Italian authority) government. --Silvio1973 (talk) 07:25, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
The contribution of Italian art to the world is massive, too much to fit here. As you say, Dalmatia was under control of La Serenissima, not of the Italian Republic, so I would not object to adding a mention on the article about the Venetian Republic, but under your reasoning we should also cover the influence of Genoese art on that of Ukraine, Roman art in Romania, or possibly even the First White House of the Confederacy. As the disambiguation links at the top of the article page suggest, this article is about the modern country known as Italy and that's what it should focus on. Articles on the art of the Venetian Republic, fire away. The mayor of Yurp (talk) 01:04, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Let's not mix apples and pears. The idea is not to list any place where the contribution of Italian art is tangible. Of course this would drive to a nearly endless list of places. In Crimea the contribution of Genoese art is of few order of magnitude smaller than in Dalmatia. It would still make more sense citing places like Malta, Nice or possibly Corfu. But in Dalmatia the situation is completely different, because the contribution of Italian art was so large that simply cannot be ignored.

  • 1 During the XIV, XV and XV centuries there was across the two sides of the Adriatic a strict continuity in terms of contribution of the Renaissance mainstream. When dealing with Italian art an equivalent cannot be found elsewhere.
  • 2 The main contribution of Italian art to the aforementioned UNESCO sites is a fact of history.
  • 3 Let's not mix Italian art, Italian artists and art in Italy. Again if we believe Venetian art is not Italian art the matter is different. Silvio1973 (talk) 11:28, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Hallo Silvio, I am back. :-) At home in rome, I checked in my library, but unfortunately all the general handbooks about Italian art which I read, scarcely mentioned the Italian renaissance art in Istria and Dalmatia:
  • By the Touring Club book about Italian Renaissance Art (266 pages), there are 3 lines about Traú, then nothing;
  • By Andre Chastel "Storia dell`arte italiana", there is nothing;
  • By Vasari "Le Vite...", both the Lauranas and Giorgio Orsini are not mentioned;

I don`t think that the reason to remove this sentences is - as The mayor of Yurp writes - that Dalmatia is not part of the Italian republic (Italian art does not mean art on the territory of Italy, but art made by the Italians, and at that time Dalmatia was - politically and culturally - part of the Italian world, but it is the weight that the dalmatia assumes in the general sources about Italian Renaissance with respect to other regions, like Toscana, Rome, Milan, Venice, etc. There is really no chance to mention it in such a general article like Italy without falling in WP:UNDUE. Alex2006 (talk) 18:18, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Fair points. Give me an half day to check. If confirmed, I will remove the edit. Silvio1973 (talk) 06:16, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Sentence removed and added in the text a mild reference that the influence of Renaissance was significant out of the borders of modern Italy. What do you think? Silvio1973 (talk) 09:10, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
I think that this is perfect Silvio, thanks. Alex2006 (talk) 11:11, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Infobox in article

Is it necessary to have such a large infobox in the article? Most of it's meaningless to me and it makes the article rather a slog to read. Also, it might be the reason Italy in WikiWand has a huge battleship as the main image for Italy. I tried to adjust the images so that won't happen but was unsuccessful. Parabolooidal (talk) 22:10, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2014

Reading the expression "major european power", the reader is addressed, by the link, to the entry "middle power". But there is a mistake: if you type, in the space for the search of any word, the expression "european power", you are re-addressed to the entry "great power". So, please, in the page of Italy, at the expression "european power", re-address the reader to the entry "great power". Thank you very much. 2.231.237.167 (talk) 14:31, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Not done: The article actually currently links "european power" to Regional power, not middle power which seems appropriate, especially given that that article lists Italy as one of the middle powers. If anything, the redirect from european power to great power seen here seems to be questionable. Cannolis (talk) 08:08, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Is this the Pravda or Wikipedia?

> Italy has a market economy characterised by high per capita GDP and low unemployment rates.

Unemployment, low what? When in Italy, you hear locals speak about nothing, but unemployment problems. The situation is especially dire among young adults, who are unable to find work and therefore, try to remain in higher education for no reason, but to avoid becoming officially unemployed. Others continue to live with their parents, for lack of work and the resulting purchasing power to buy or rent a flat, thereby not getting married for many years and not delivering the future generation.

Please don't put fake glorious propaganda falsities into Wikipedia, because they only provoke laughter. 82.131.131.38 (talk) 12:27, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, you are invited to modify. Silvio1973 (talk) 19:05, 21 September 2014 (UTC)


Everybody calm down. The economy section is quite old, it was written before the 2008 crisis. --Conte di Cavour (talk) 11:17, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Dear IP users, we invite everyone to modify this article. And indeed I agree with some (not all) of the things you write. But I am not going to edit instead of the both of you. If YOU think the article needs improvement, YOU need to edit and source adequately. The users are not here to follow your directions. The entire project is based on collective cooperation. I am on your sides if you want to improve the article, but YOU need to participate actively and complaining without proposing accounts only to WP:TROLLING. One side comment: your should log in. If you both edit with an IP address the WP community might not take your edits seriously enough. Silvio1973 (talk) 17:50, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Complete bullshit in the Republican Italy section

It says that U.S. intelligence may have been involved in the terrorist attacks during the Years of Lead economic depression period. That is complete bullshit. Italy was already a member of NATO during that time. Why the hell would the U.S. try to destabilize an ally? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.36.156.16 (talk) 05:35, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Edit Request

The article has been protected against IP editing since September 2010. In the religion section, it says, "Donations are allowed to Christian, Jew, Buddhist and Hindu communities." It should be changed from Jew to Jewish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.36.156.16 (talk) 05:47, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

 Done Alex2006 (talk) 08:32, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

ITALY ISN'T A COMMON MIDDLE POWER

Italy is described in the article as a common middle power and this dosn't respect its prestige.Italy like India for istance is more than this.Italy at least is "main" or "leading middle power".The former description of Italy was better than the new one.82.53.125.19 (talk) 17:58, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

small edit

In the first paragraph it says Italy is "higly" developed. Can someone please correct this typo? It's driving me crazy...

 Done --NeilN talk to me 04:54, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

typo

in the first paragraph, "thrive" is typoed, but i can't edit it because it's semi protected. 198.11.120.163 (talk) 01:28, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Fixed. Thank you. -- Calidum 03:47, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Anthem

The national anthem of Italy is actually called Fratelli d'Italia. Just sayin'... :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:252:D14:EEE0:DDA5:AD2C:9219:A6DD (talk) 01:04, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

?

Why is there a dash between "eighth" and "largest" in the first paragraph? I'm going nuts over it... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:252:D14:EEE0:DDA5:AD2C:9219:A6DD (talk) 01:15, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Government

Reading through the introduction, infobox and Government section I still have no idea how Italy is run politically. For a start, who's the leader of the country and what then does the president/ prime minister do, and why does Italy have both, and what about the recent elections and acting versus elect status? And then there's the stuff about a perfect bicameral system where supposedly both have the same exact powers, which if taken literally is not only absurd, but borderline impossible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:FE0:C000:1:3807:F58C:D526:655D (talk) 18:44, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

New President

Please unlock the article. Sergio Mattarella is already President of Italy. There is no formal assumption for this office, election and resignation are instantaneous. Compare. Thank you. --2.237.90.135 (talk) 14:51, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

No, it will take office on Tuesday, after his oath. Please read here. BTW, wiki:it says correctly that acting president is still Grasso, and the italian article is also protected because of that.Alex2006 (talk) 17:31, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Confirm. I've just protected Italia on it.wiki to avoid the same erroneous editing of the page. Er Cicero (talk) 18:15, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
I thought it was Tuesday in Italy & that Mattarella had been sworn in. Oh well, in a few hours it'll be moot. GoodDay (talk) 22:07, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Something about Ferrero...

This article should contain something about Ferrero SpA. I'll try to add something. --115ash→(☏) 14:45, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2015

173.161.0.225 (talk) 18:02, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Recent edits on Metropolitan Cities

Ciao Alessandro, ho visto che su wiki sia italiano che inglese esistono le voci "area metropolitan di"; pensavo che siano di maggior valore informative I numeri relative all'arrea metropolitan piuttosto che quelli della città metropolitan, che comprendono le intere vecchie province con comuni spesso oltre I 50 km dal capoluogo. Al limite si potrebbero fare due colonne, una per "area" e una per "city". Che ne pensi? Mauro comment added by Robur.q (talk • contribs) 12:17, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

I explain the revert of the edits on the Metropolitan Cities paragraph. The Metropolitan City, like the province and the region, is since 2014 an official administrative subdivision of the Republic. So it cannot be confused with the metropolitan area, which in Italy is a rather vague and not univoque concept with no official definition: since there are several ways, often in contrast one with the other, to define them, the metropolitan areas are not mentioned on the wiki:it's "Italia" article. Last but not least, because of WP:CRYSTAL I removed from the list the Metropolitan cities of Sardina and Sicily. None of them does exist yet: we will insert them after an official promulgation. Alex2006 (talk) 13:14, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I partially agree with you: it is true that the metropolitan cities are the only official administrative subdivision, but they are quite inaccurate to describe the characteristics of a metropolitan area and they are misleading. For example the Commune of Bardonecchia is 85 km to Turin so it can not definitely considerated part of the metropolitan area of Turin as identified by the Osservatorio Demografico Territoriale del Piemonte of IRES Piemonte that is a an institution of the Regione . The metropolitan area has not an administrative signification, but has a demographic, social and economic significance. As the metropolitan city of Cagliari, actually there is only a bill that the Sardinian Regional Governament has presented few weeks ago. But the bill has to be discussed and (perhaps) approved by the Regional Parliament (the Consiglio Regionale). del Piemonte. The metropolitan area of Turin is not an administrative subdivision but is clerly identified by a Regional Greetings Mauro — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robur.q (talk • contribs) 07:08, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
In fact in Italy Metropolitan Cities are apples and Metropolitan areas are pears, and we don't mix apples with pears. :-) That's we I removed the part about Metropolitan Areas from the article about Metropolitan Cities, and transformed the redirect in a stub about Metropolitan areas of Italy, with all the different definitions. Feel free to add the regional definition of Turin Metropolitan Area in the article about the Metropolitan areas, but we are not going to add this info on this article, since here should come only homogeneus, comparable informations at a national level, and what the Osservatorio Territoriale of Piemont says has a local value. About Cagliari's metropolitan city, as soon as the regional government will approve it, we can add it. Alex2006 (talk) 07:22, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Recent edits about Italian notables in science

I see the last edits about Italian scientists here as problematic. What is important is the notability of these Italian scientists during the time which they spent in Italy. For example, Lagrange was invited at Berlin by the king of Prussia himself because he was the "greatest mathematician in Europe" (words of the king). He would stay in this article also if he would had died during his trip to Berlin. Fermi accomplished the greater part of his scientific job (and won the Nobel prize) for his work in Rome. His work for the U.S. and the reason why he was forced to leave Italy here are out of scope. To consider an opposite case, one could take Giacconi, who left Italy after his degree and did all his work in U.S.A.: he does not fit in an article about the contribution of Italy to science, although in the article about Germany there is a nice picture of a certain Albert Einstein who, as everyone knows, did most of his scientific production in Switzerland. Alex2006 (talk) 19:39, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

ok I'm now convinced that Lagrange and Fermi belong. However it also has to mention they both left the community of Italian science. The main problem with the section is that it strips the Italian scientific community of its communitarian role, and leaves isolated individuals. This becomes highlighted in the case of physics, in which a world-class physics enterprise was built up in the 1920s, and then destroyed by the fascists in the late 1930s when they imposed anti-Jewish laws. A second annoying problem, one that is easy to remedy, is the lack of dates. The names cover half a millennium, and a simple birthdate-death date would i think provide useful information to the reader. Rjensen (talk) 19:45, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
I agree with you. Unwillingly, you caught the main problem about Italian science: Italians were, and still are also in this field, "einzelkämpfer". Today Italian scientists lead the majority of the European research centers, but there is no team play in that. Each of them reached this position alone, without receiving any help from his/her homeland. Alex2006 (talk) 04:38, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Were very much agreed about that. (I have two Italian grandparents & have often noted the same phenomena among Italians in the United States) Rjensen (talk) 04:43, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Two thousands years with the Church at home have been fatal for us..."Ahi serva Italia, di dolore ostello, nave sanza nocchiere in gran tempesta, non donna di province, ma bordello!"  :-) Alex2006 (talk) 04:53, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Pictures on this page

The set of pictures on this page is the result of an accurate selection and a series of difficult agreements between users (after long edit wars) that one does not simply replace without any notice. Especially if the old pictures are to be replaced with a redundant, cheap tourist-guide-like set, without any respect for the most elementary requirements of good graphics. --Conte di Cavour (talk) 16:30, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

G7 and G8

Italy in the article should be presented not as member of the G7 and the G8 but as a member of the G7 ( forum ) and of the G7 ( finance ministers). THIS IS A MAIN POINT.The G8 doesn't exist anymore because suspended for an indeterminate time.As now the preseantion without G7 finance ministers that should replace the G8, is dated and wrong.In fact if you click on G7 and G8 you've the same article.Really not good. 151.40.119.193 (talk) 05:00, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Bizarre proportions in the History section

Only four lines about Ancient Rome (!), only five lines about the Renaissance (!), but an entire paragraph about the middle ages, which is probably the least significant part in the Italian history. It seems extremely bizarre to me. I think that Ancient Rome and the Renaissance deserve dedicated paragraphs, while the middle ages' part could even be shortened. 109.168.64.106 (talk) 18:14, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2015

Geographydotnet (talk) 17:36, 11 November 2015 (UTC) Italy is located in Europe

University picture

The picture of University of Sapienza is wrong, it refers to the church of Sant'Ivo alla Sapienza. Bye — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.167.184.85 (talk) 16:03, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

No, it is correct, it refers to its original seat. Alex2006 (talk) 18:48, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Map of Italophones around the world

In the Language section there's this map of Italian speakers around the world. There's a green dot on Japan - who are they? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.203.82.42 (talk) 09:54, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Who is Christopher Columbus?

Friendly Staff Who is Christopher Columbus? English man? OMG... Cristoforo Colombo! R.I.P!! Is not correct! Cristoforo Colombo (name of baptism also, in latino: Christophorus Columbus, in spagnolo: Cristóbal Colón, in portoghese: Cristóvão Colombo;) Please, use correct name.. God rest his soul

Good Work — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimotori (talk • contribs) 00:01, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Politics section

Hello, I'm proposing the following changes regarding the Politics section.

The current "Law and criminal justice" section is very short. While "The Supreme Court of Cassation is the highest court in Italy for both criminal and civil appeal cases" is technically true, it is also very misleading for the general English-speaking reader. There is a very important split in the Italian judicial system between ordinary courts (private and criminal law) and administrative courts (administrative law), which the section neglects to mention. So for example, administrative court cases will never go before the Supreme Court of Cassation because the court of last resort for administrative matters is the Council of State.

Also, while organized crime in Italy definitely needs to be discussed in the article, I think it should go in a separate section (or maybe in the "Law enforcement" section), rather than in the general "Law" section, which should focus on the describing the Italian legal system.

Therefore, I suggest renaming the "Law and criminal justice" section into "Law", with the following content. I used the following sources for reference: [[1]] [[2]] [[3]] [[4]] 

The Italian judicial system is based on Roman law modified by the Napoleonic code and later statutes. Italian magistrates are split in two categories: ordinary magistrates and special courts.

Ordinary magistrates comprise both ordinary judges and public prosecutors and exercise jurisdiction over civil and criminal matters. They belong to a common judicial order whose independence and autonomy is guaranteed by the Constitution. Recruitment, allocation, transfer, promotion, and disciplinary measures of ordinary magistrates, though they can be initiated by the Ministry of Justice, are decided by the High Council of the Judiciary (''Consiglio Superiore della Magistratura''), a self-governing body of magistrates presided over by the President of the Republic. Except for three ''ex officio'' members (the President of the Republic and the President and Prosecutor General of the Supreme Court of Cassation) the members of the High Council of the Judiciary are elected for two-thirds by ordinary magistrates and for one-third by the Parliament in joint session. The Supreme Court of Cassation is the court of last resort for both criminal and civil appeal cases, as well as for disputes over the jurisdiction of ordinary and special courts.

The creation of new special courts and judges is prohibited by the Constitution of Italy, but it allows for the continued existence of special courts predating the Constitution. The Constitution also makes provisions for the existence of separate administrative courts, which decide on cases regarding the infringement of legitimate interests (rather than rights, which fall under the jurisdiction of ordinary courts), the legitimacy of administrative acts and measures, and other disputes between private parties and and public authorities according to law. The Council of State (acting in its judicial capability) is the court of last resort for administrative disputes. The Constitution of Italy also establishes the Court of Accounts, who has jurisdiction over accounting matters.

The Constitutional Court of Italy (Corte Costituzionale), a post–World War II innovation, rules on the conformity of laws with the Constitution, having the power to repeal unconstitutional laws, and over conflicts of power between State institutions, between State and Regions, and between Regions.

In the "Administrative division" section, "Italy is subdivided into 20 regions (regioni), five of these regions having a special autonomous status that enables them to enact legislation on some of their local matters" is a bit misleading. All 20 regions have the power to enact legislation over local matters (the exact boundaries are set by article 117 of the Constitution), so this is not what is special about the five autonomous ones. What is special about them is that their Statutes, unlike the Statutes of the remaining 15 regions, are part of and have the same rank as the Constitution. This means the Statutes can give the Region special powers (for example, the power to legislate in matters which are normally reserved to the State), a special political system (for example, the very peculiar system of Trentino-South Tyrol), etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loudo89 (talk • contribs) 13:22, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2016

Averyanderson5578 (talk) 06:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 13:42, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Italy sharing Adriatic Sea with ....

Italy sharing/have sea border on Adriatic Sea with Slovenia,Croatia,Bosnia and Herzegovina,Montenegro and Albania.

Can that be put in please ?


Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darthtiho (talk • contribs) 13:28, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

 Not done Were are the source? Moreover, on itwiki (NOT a source per se) there is nothing about it. Alex2006 (talk) 16:00, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2016

106.76.150.1 (talk) 10:29, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 14:12, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2016


151.40.1.132 (talk) 01:11, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

In the article related to "Italy" Economy of Italy the average net wage of Italy in 2015 is according to the official EU source Eurostat 1725€/month and 20702€/year (see a person 100% net wage) .Now in Economy of Italy article is just a private and dated study of 2014 by Jp (it reports 18720€/year) that must be deleted and set the 2015 report by Eurostat as reference.Thanks.[1]151.40.1.132 (talk) 01:11, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage#cite_note-101
Note: For now, this has not been done – see Talk:Economy of Italy#Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2016 for details.  Temporal Sunshine Paine  06:03, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2016

Catalan is co-official language of the city of Alghero in Sardinia.


Phguisset (talk) 11:52, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 12:39, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Unitary state?

The article declares that Italy is a unitary state, but according to the Italian constitution article 131 (or at least if I have understood it correctly, having read it from here) regions can be merged or their boundaries be changed only with the consent of the regions themselves and the consent of their citizens by a popular referendum. Wouldn't this make Italy a federation as the central government cannot alter the regions unilaterally? And also all of the regions are specifically/individually mentioned by name in the Italian Constitution, so a change in the composition of the regions would also require a constitutional amendment. Also the Italian regions have substantial legislative powers and the division of power between the "Italian state" (central government) and the regions is clearly defined in the Italian constitution. Regards --Ransewiki (talk) 17:28, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Ransewiki Italy is not a federation. 15 "standard" regions have a limited legislative autonomy on very specific topics (mines, libraries, some regional roads...). On health care (80% of their budget) they have simple administrative autonomy. But that's basically it. Regions were so secondary that ordinary regions were actually created only in 1970-75 (first regional election in 1975). More than France maybe, less than Spain or Germany. Also there is no federal Senate (senators are elected on "regional constituency", but they are just borders).--Alexmar983 (talk) 20:20, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
Fairly well explained. Italy is unitary state, it is not a federal state. Silvio1973 (talk) 11:22, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2016


The first paragraph states that Italy is the 3rd most populous EU state but when I follow the link to the table of EU states' populations, Italy is actually 4th.

109.231.238.177 (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Somebody assumed Brexit took effect immediately. I've fixed it. Mindmatrix 13:36, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

etemology of the name ITALY74.113.191.123 (talk) 21:50, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

etemology of the name ITALY . the name ITALIA comes from HEBREW. EE TALIA means the hanging Island in Hebrew.21:50, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

No. See Name of Italy. Mindmatrix 23:25, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2016

In the Tourism Section of Italy before "With 50.7 million tourists a year (2015), Italy is the fifth most visited country in international tourism arrivals, and the sixth highest tourism earner in the world.[145] " I would like to add the following:

After the Italian unification there was a growing disparity of political development throughout Italy as well as a surge of mass tourism. To combat these political disparities, mass tourism was used as a way to implant “morality into politics” (Hom). In 1864 Thomas Cook, a British tour guide, led the first organized tour around Northern Italy, allowing many middle class citizens to, for the first time, tour the aesthetically pleasing Italy- once held as a privilege only the aristocrats could afford. Unlike the Grand Tour, a multiple year tour aimed at an aesthetic education of Italy taken by the aristocratic elite in the eighteenth century, Cook’s tour covered several thousand miles within days. This highlighted the fast-growing mass tourism of Italy. Not only did mass tourism allow the middle class to learn more about Italy and help with the division between classes, but it also aided in the fight for national unity. It was Cook’s hope that tourism would promote newfound understanding of other regions within Italy and thereby also promote national unity.

My source is also as follows below: Hom, Stephanie Malia. The Beautiful Country, Tourism and the Impossible State of Destination Italy. University of Toronto Press. 2015. Chubbers27 (talk) 21:11, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  21:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2017

79.55.143.232 (talk) 16:59, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

OFFICIAL LANGUAGES IN ITALY ARE TWO: ITALIAN AND NEAPOLITAN (UNESCO)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Sir Joseph (talk) 17:37, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Real problem with Conte di Cavour user and his misinformation

Is it possible to delete this user ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julio188red (talk • contribs) 09:47, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

  • No, you cannot arbitrarily delete other people. His edits are fine, as he is cleaning up the clutter and pointless excess of images. This is a encyclopaedia, not a touristic ad. Newer sections go on the BOTTOM of the talk page. Fbergo (talk) 10:25, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

You are serious ?? You participate in disinformation.. This is your opinion and it is you who remove photos to postpone idiocy without interest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julio188red (talk • contribs) 11:00, 11 January 2017 (UTC) IT IS NOT YOU TO DECIDE or your boyfriend Conte di Cavour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julio188red (talk • contribs) 11:05, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

  • I am serious. This article is too long and already violates the size guidelines of WP:TOOBIG. The photo albums at the start of each section are a nuisance for readers on mobile devices. Editing should move in the direction of simplifiying it, not the contrary. This is the second time you make a personal attack on other editors, please read WP:PA. Fbergo (talk) 12:43, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Too Long (Jan 2017)

This article is already too long, and I would recommend editors to refrain from ornamenting the article with unnecessary detail, notably about ancient history. We have already had a slow revert fight regarding the issue during the last few weeks. Please mind that when editing the article, or discuss here if you disagree. Fbergo (talk) 23:20, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

You're right sir, but instead of cutting short the article, there is currently an invasion of users that are spamming pictures and even more text. I tried to restore the situation and today I also summerized a bit the introduction. I would nevertheless recommend to delete at least the "Flora and Fauna" section that is way too much redundant. --Conte di Cavour (talk) 20:17, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Vandalism, Febbruary 2017

Hey Guys! Someone had vandalised the resource of Milena Sterio, deleting the source of her Book ( I have put again the source of her Book) , she talks of Italy as a great power , Would be good if we pay more attention against persons that are here only for vandalised.LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 20:55, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2017

Please let me edit i will do good stuff 216.195.23.188 (talk) 18:01, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. JTP (talk • contribs) 18:52, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2017

Italy has more UNESCO World Heritage Sites (51) than any other country in the world, and has rich collections of art, culture and literature from many different periods. The country has had a broad cultural influence worldwide, also because numerous Italians emigrated to other places during the Italian diaspora. Furthermore, the nation has, overall, an estimated 100,000 monuments of any sort (museums, palaces, buildings, statues, churches, art galleries, villas, fountains, historic houses and Italy is super poor AND (Redacted) archaeological remains).[1] ASIAN (talk) 17:48, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —MRD2014 📞 contribs 19:41, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Eyewitness Travel (2005), pg. 19

images of law enforcement and architecture.

Hello @LuigiPortaro29: Please assume good faith in my edits and stop with this arrogance of telling me to know more about Italy. How do you want to know that i do not, merely by seeing when i change an image? Regarding the image on the architecture section. Here it is, obviously about architecture and not about the Gardening style of the royal park. So either one takes an image which captures the archtitecture of the building or one looks for another image that might fit in there beautifully. Now regarding the image on the section of Law enforcement. Indeed the Lamborghini looks great. But it is not the average police car and not representative. WP is surely not a website that promotes the best of the best of everything but is an encyclopaedia and aims to portray a neutral realistic image. Of course in the main article of Law enforcement in Italy one can add this image of the Lambo, but not in the article of Italy itself. Regarding the image of the aircraft carrier, i have after the edit summary no objections and the image can stay.--Joobo (talk) 14:00, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

You are changing images without a consultation, your images you want to see here are without an agreement with other people, then we are talking about a World Heritage Site like the Caserta Palace , so it is better to leave this image where all its beauty stands out. The same as for the Lamborghini of the Italian Police, the Italian police are the "only" "G7" nation that Have "Supercars" also because Italy is "famous" in the "world" for "fastest" Supercars as the Lamborghini, lately the Bologna Police has had "another" Lamborghini Huracán, That's why this Lamborghini photo has always been here. It is not a fact that we trying to show things that are not real, indeed, the police in Italy use these machines, every day and Often, so I see no reason to change the photos. LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 16:07, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Usually one is not obliged to get agreements in advanced by other users to include other or new images. Unless there is disagreement of course. Then a consensus needs to be found. Regardless for how long the Lambo was in this article it is simply not representative for Italy's police as a whole. Also Italy is definitely not the only one of the G7 Nations that got police "supercars". Germany has them, Netherlands (rich western nation) has them, the US has them the UK has them. But that is not even the point here, even IF italy would be the only one. It still is not representative for Italies Police force. It is not that Italy would not use them, sure they do. But it just is creating a distorted image. Regarding the picture of the Caserta Palace. Well it is a World Heritage Site but it is not about the "beauty" of the whole site that has to stand out, but it is about the "architecture". A gardening is no architecture. --Joobo (talk) 16:20, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
My dear, for sure you are not the right one to tell if the Lamborghini is fit or not for the Italian police, I don't was talking about Netherlands, I was talking of the G7 , and I don't know if they use a Ferrari or a Lamborghini in their police forces, the Italian police buy a very world-famous car like Lomborghini, there a reason. And you are not the right one to tell if the Lamborghini can not represent the Italian police as a whole. Italy is the country of the Supercars, And that is why Italy is famous in the World.Maybe I may seem presumptuous, but this is the truth my dear. Therefore, lamborghini is always used by the police, at the same time Lamborghini has a history with Italy of great importance. LuigiPortaro29 (talk)16:56, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
I actually can agree with what you say here. Italy is a country with many supercars and the police uses it. It is all true. And i would encourage you to include such an image in the main article of the Law enforcement in Italy article. However these supercars are not the standard vehicles of the Italian police. How many of them are active on patrol 20, 30? at most. It is simply not the common and ususal police car in Italy. And that is why a realistic neutral image should be used here in this article of the country of Italy. In the particluar law enforcement article, sure one can and should include that pic, but nor here.--Joobo (talk) 18:05, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2017

In section "cuisine" where the pictures are, please change the word "Chanti wine" in "Chianti wine" which is the actual name 110.20.201.81 (talk) 08:31, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

 Done. El_C 08:35, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

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RfC about the photo in the economy section

(non-admin closure) - Consensus is to use the Fiat photo.- MrX 14:02, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should the Photo of this Ferrari File:2017-03-07_Geneva_Motor_Show_1175_(cropped).JPG with the image text of "The new Ferrari 812. Italy maintains a large automotive industry, and is the world's seventh exporter of goods."; or this Fiat File:Fiat_500_in_Emilia-Romagna.jpg with the image text of "A Fiat 500 by one of the worlds largest auto makers FCA." be used for the economy section?--Joobo (talk) 10:16, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

PS: Relevant discussion was already started by two editors in section above and can be helpful for this RfC.10:16, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Survey

  • Fiat - due to given reasons of adequacy, representativeness and pertinent frame as to be seen in discussion above.--Joobo (talk) 13:41, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Ferrari - No need to be more representativeness. luxury cars like Jaguar, Mercedes or Ferrari has been used in the economy's section of Italy and other countries without been representative. this Ferrari Grand tourer is similar with the Jaguar XKR ( the cousin of Jaguar XE ).--Ivankazz (talk) 08:12, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
In case you are refering to the automobile examples of the other editor, I have to point out again, that Ferrari is a particular Sports car, not comparable with the Mercedes-Benz brand or the Jaguary brand which are "mere" upscale cars. Ferrari plays in the same league as for instance, the Corvette, not Mercedes, Jaguary or Cadillac. There is a difference.--Joobo (talk) 10:32, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
That is your belief and is respectable. This Ferrari of the Photo is not a Supercar is a Grand Tourer, similar to the Jaguar XKR (the cousin of Jaguar XE). and after read the discussion above about the "representativeness" that you claim and reading your reply here on RFC I think this is merely an own problem with you and with the pic of the Ferrari.--Ivankazz (talk) 08:12, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Magistrato Monetario

plan 23.65 % 4.032 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.254.243.155 (talk) 06:31, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Obvious Vandalism

Italy displays “FIFAAAAAA” on the search page. This is obvious vandalism. I cannot find how to edit it, but it must be fix and the vandal must be found. XXCooksterXx (talk) 13:49, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

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The Italian republic has NO official language!

The Italian republic has NO official language, as the U.S.. It is not written anywhere in the Italian constitution - as it was for Rome as capita till october 2010. We should change the status of Italian in the following way: official language: none; de-facto: Italian, language minorities (German, French, Sicilian, Friulian, etc...) are "protected" by the Italian constitution. 71.95.63.155 (talk) 12:26, 07 July 2017 (UTC)

hi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.44.5.118 (talk) 05:49, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Not correct: the official status of Italian language is not written in the Constitution, but in a special language act (art. 1, Legge 15 Dicembre 1999, n. 482) which says "La lingua ufficiale della Repubblica è l'italiano" (trans. the official language of the Republic is Italian). It is also recognized as official judicial language by the Codice di Procedura Civile (art. 122). Paolo
Incorrect, the Constitution has been modified in 2007. Article 12 clearly says : «L’italiano è la lingua ufficiale della Repubblica» (trans. "Italian is the official language of the Republic").[[5]]. Silvio1973 (talk) 19:31, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
I need to fix this when I have sometime, you guys can see here it's quite complicated Languages_of_Italy. Italy implemented Law no. 482/1999 which defines a lot of this. The Italian Republic also has autonomous regions with their own laws. Making it a footnote misrepresents the Italian linguistic diversity and creates a misleading assumption of Italian monolingualism.Paolorausch (talk) 23:36, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Picture of the "Ferrari".

Since always on the Page "Italy" there was the Ferrari as a representation of the Italian economy section, I think there is no reason to cancel it, since other countries like Germany and the UK have" National imagines" that are not "Volskwagen", etc. --LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 14:59, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

As already elucidated on the talk page of LuigiPortaro29 there are several reasons why the image of the Fiat vehicle fits more adequately in the section than the Ferrari. I also like to mention the fact that LuigiPortaro29 claims i "WITHOUT even know about Italy" and i were not the right to edit on this article. I still want an explanation, actually rather an apology for that statement. Now to the aspects regarding the image. First of all, the image used in this section needs to portray the Italian economy, if possible, in a general and broad perspective. Before the image of the Milano skyline were used by me, there was an image of Ferrero Rocher candies. Obviously, the Milano skyline fits much better in the section as it is portraying the Italian service and financial sector. The car image, as obvious, portrays the Italian industry, in this case the huge automotive sector. Now FCA the owning company of Fiat is still mostly owned by Italian shareholders, hence it is no problem to take an image of that. Fiat and its subsidiaries have the multiple amount of employees in Italy and generate way more money than Ferrari does. The influence is significantly higher than from Ferrari. The argument brought by Luigi was that in other country articles comparable car images were used in the economy section. That is not true, A Mercedes as used till now in the section in Germany's article is a mere luxury vehicle but no sports car as Ferrari is. Also the influence and key figures of Mercedes Benz are substantially bigger than of Ferrari- (emplyees, sales, etc.). Same goes for the Jaguar car used in the UK article economy section. Jaguar is a luxury car vehicle producer, comparable to automobile manufacturers like Chrysler, Audi or Lexus. These are different cagetories. Eventually after recent edits now there also already is an image of a Ferrari car in the sports section. Even if one would not take the before mentioned points into account, it should be clear that two images of cars of one and the same company are one too much for one single article of a country. --Joobo (talk) 08:08, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
Not Consensus. I Thank you for your desire to update the page of Italy, But.."Who" are you for say " this Car is Important or no", instead to be always here adding and deleting pics in the section of Italy without consensus, I suggest you to put an eye in other Pages of the G7 Countries as for Example in the German section , there a nice Mercedes , Mercedes isn't the National Brand of Germany, "Volskwagen" Have this role for Germany's Industry, as well in the section of the UK economy there a "Jaguar", UK have no even an own Car Industry , UK lives more from" financial", it is true that there Italian brands as Maserati or Alfa Romeo Giulia that are more in the range of those pics of Germany and UK , But the Ferrari's imagine have been in the Italian section of Economy for many "Years". did you add an imagine of the Ferrari F1, Waiting to cancel the other Ferrari image? oh nice! But this don't change nothing. so, If I think as YOU Think, then the pics of Mercedes and Jaguar need to be delete it Because they are NOT "Important" for the National Economy like "Volskwagen" do for Germany! or ... ( I don't know for the UK). LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 13:58, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
Not only do I still got no apology from you for your recent statements about me; you even continue your way of speaking and insinuate i did an edit in this article in order to justify another edit, albeit i never did the edit in the first place. Though this is not the place for such discussions, since you initiated this and do continue with that, i let you know that i am going to get an admin involved in this most likely. Concerning your points about the image- I personaly got no problem with changing the Mercedes image in the article of Germany with a VW image. However this is not what this is all about. My points are basically outlined above. --Joobo (talk) 21:33, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
I wonder what are you talking about? , I told you "you are not impartial", just focusing at the Italian page, if you wanted to do a good job, then you needed to started 1 week ago deleting the other pictures from Germany and the UK Since according to YOUR own theory, they are not vital to their economies.( Im not talking about only of Germany). Anyway, I apologize "again" for my expression of "impartiality". and I already I did too on my Talk Page . you always add and deletes pictures to the pages of so many countries, then I wonder why you have not deleted the other images of other countries, focusing all your attention only on Italy. why you don´t have focusing your attention in other G7 countries?. However Ferrari is the most knowling and Famous Car of the "Made in Italy" of the world. from Frank Sinatra to Chris Evans, all the world knows of it.,I still suggest you to leave all the photos of the economy section of Italy, Germany and UK as they are, there may be German and British users who may not like your photos because these photos have been here for a long time here.--LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 19:50, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
So you make an unproven insinuation without any evidence, claiming i would be impartial for whatever reason. Before that you told me i would have no knowledge about Italy. And now you apologize in the same text? Frankly, i have no idea what this is about, yet it surely can pretty much be viewed as a personal attack. I do not need to delete the images on the UK or Germany page since the cars depicted there are only luxury vehicles. Ferrari does not produce these cars, it produces high end upscale sports cars. Again i already wrote that down. There is a difference between a Ferrari and a Mercedes. Simple as that. As there is no argument by you, and merely deflection with regards to other country articles that use images portraying automobiles that do not fall into the same category, plus attacks on me, i am going to include the image of the Ferrari back in. I again hint to the fact that, now in this article there already is an image of a Ferrari car, two Ferrari cars are not needed in this article. --Joobo (talk) 13:43, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
Not consensus. you say : "I do not need to delete the images on the UK or Germany page since the cars depicted there are only luxury vehicles." - OMG ! so I wonder what we have talked about? , You have added the pic of the Fiat 500 saying that is the National brand and Important brand for the Italian economy ! so I tell you now, Volkswagen do this Job for Germany and Jaguar dont have this role in the UK's economy . since your OWN theory says that. so..the Imagine of the Ferrari have BEEN always HERE , so there no reason for delete it. , You added the Ferrari F1 image without an agreement and waiting for cancel the other Ferrari image?, The image of Ferrari is the best of Made in Italy in the world! Instead of erasing the image of Ferrari why you not erase images in the sections of Germany and the united kingdom? as they are irrelevant for the National economy, how can be Jaguar Important for the economy of the the UK economy? C'mon ! Important thing : don't add imagine without consensus.--LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 16:46, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
I did not included the image of the Ferrari into the sports section, when will you finally GET IT? For how long do you use wikipedia that you still are you not even able to check the edit history to see who did what? You believe i have bad intend in editing this article, eventhough i just have the best intend for this article, I like Italy a lot and know much about it, that is also why i improved many other images, almost entirely only taking the best ones rated as "quality" "valued" or "featured" by the wikicommons community. How you come to the simple conclusion i would not be impartial here or even would not know anything etc. is absolutely unclear to me and is nothing but astounding. Your point of "always been here" is no argument at all. Something can be somewhere forever only cause nobody edits it does not mean it is the best choice or correct. That is absoutely not how an encyclopedia works. "The image of Ferrari is the best of Made in Italy in the world!" Who says that? what kind of advertising is this? Wikipedia is no magazine or something but a pure website for dull information. Images should merely highlight the information. Just taking a Ferrari image cause it is the "best, greates, expensive whatever". is not the way to edit. I have no problem actually with having the Ferrari image in the sports section, eventhough i did not inclueded it there to me it fits ok. Still in the ecnoomy the Fiat image which was also rated as a very good image categorized as a quality image and featured at the same time. Also as i pointed out i have no problem with changing the Mercedes with a VW image, so if you want to do that go ahead, though this is another topic and this should not the way it works. Also Mercedes generates way more money than Ferrari does. Ferrari might be also very iconic, but if it comes to the numbers it still is sort of small, hence not really representative. Joobo (talk) 17:11, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
I do not know, but I have the impression that You have added that image of the F1, and now you are saying something else but ...

I believe that you add and delete images with good faith, but since you have deleted the image of Ferrari saying "that does not fit to represent" the economy of Italy, I wish that you explain me what means that? and I'm not here to follow your game .. You see.. Ferrari is the best brand in Italy and the best known in the world ,you are free to google and you will find abundantly about this term , you always say that Ferrari can not compete with the Mercedes, but the fact is that you say that the Fiat is more representative, but why you not follow your own law with the other pages in the G7 countries? (since you are the only one that care of this" term But only for the Italian section"). Here does not center if Ferrari is better and costs more than a Mercedes , here we are talking about your own word of "representation", so if we follow what you say then the Jaguar of the United Kingdom and the Mercedes of Germany need to be delete it, without any "but" and I wish that you to do it, as you hold So much to the word "representation". But since you are pro Britain, I think that you will not do it! or am I wrong? haha, why, you have this term of representation only with Italy? .But since I'm still waiting if you are really impartial, and I have doubt about it, since you today also have again focusing your attention in the Italian's economy section.. and about the imagine of F1 I prefer the other "old" pic that one that always have been here. that is why I have delete that new pic of the F1 added by the unknown.LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 18:27, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

You do not have to follow my "game", because there simply is no game. I explained that meticulously already before. Ferrari is an iconic high end car brand from Italy, no doubts on that. But you have to look what gets included where. In this case one aims to use images highlighting the Italian economy as a "whole". And as iconic, unqiue and important Ferrari or other comparable brands and companies might be, they still merely portray a minor segment of the Italian economy. FIAT instead stands for an iconic, decades old uniquely Italian company, which today after the union with Chrysler, belongs to one of the biggest and largest automobile manufacturers of the world. To take an image, which by the way was rated as Quality and Featured in Wikicommons, of an iconic Fiat 500 makes hence more sense. Again to mention Ferrari as an example of a prime company in the text of the Economy section, i got no objections to that at all. Also i have no problem with including the Ferrari image in the sports section. But in the economy section the image of an automobile of Fiat is more logical. I took out the image of the Ferrero pralines and included the Milano skyline for the exact same reason. Ferrero might be a big and iconic brand, but the skyline of Milano simply portrays the Italian service sector way better. You ask the same qustion again, why i do not follow the law with other pages, it simply is not right. Mercedes is "only" a luxurly vehicle producer, yet they produce all kinds of vehicles also for the average person. Ferrari is a highly specialized high end sports car manufacturer with way less employees and far less sales and income as Mercedes. It seems that you believe I was not impartial merely by the fact that i change an image in Italy and not on other country sites. That is not correct. I already told you that i for instance deleted an image of a car in the economy section of Croatia, for the exact same reason. The car image used there simply was not representative. You seem to believe that Wikipedia is a competition, and that it is about who gets the best country article here. That is not the case. Please understand what WP stands for. Possibly a Rfc etc. is necessary. Joobo (talk) 10:33, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
Since your word of "representation" brings you to only look at Italy, then I also speak according to your own theory. Ha ha, you're still saying that Ferrari is not Fit and Mercedes is only a luxury car , still you don't have answer my question about your "representation" , the JAGUAR IS the UK flag company? what is Jaguar? MINI have more representation or no? Jaguar isn't even in the top three of luxury cars ! ( so in the UK's economy section there only a Propaganda) There are more than 100 arguments to show that Ferrari represents Italy And even google has demonstrated it to you . unlike Jaguar that isn't a Flag brand, as well Tata Motors have the control over this car or no?. and Mercedes isn't the National brand of Germany, Volskwagen have this role for Germany's economy. what do you think about this? or is only my invention?,You write thousand words and do not answer what we are talking about ... we still talking about this but you still talking like a Broken disc. you have adding the imagine of the Fiat 500( by the way.. that pic was an old model) saying that is the National Brand of Italy!, don't try to say that Mercedes and Jaguar are only luxury cars, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?... for Italy you say" National brand" and for the other @@@!, Volskwagen do this role for Germany and Financial is the National brand of the economy of the UK. why you don't understand it..ins't so hard to understand it. I see that you are the only one that have Problems with this photo. I found the Pic of the Ferrari good and also Fit for the Italian economy section Because "I and other users agree with this pic" This kind of picture has always been here (that means that in so many who have agreed with this image ) then you come with your own theory of "representation" and wants to change it without agreement.LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 15:33, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
I don't know why this user like that his ideas are accepted and the ideas from others no, that is not a good way to use Wikipedia Thanks to God that finally he is blocked!.Ivankazz (talk) 12:04, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

I apologize for joining the talk so late, but I had problems with recovering my account after my old laptop passed out. Anyway, if you still want to know the viewpoint of a 10+ years contributor of this page, I strongly support the idea of using a Ferrari picture. Overlooking the fact that we kept a Ferrari pic for countless years, this brand is synonymous with high-quality Italian car manufacturing all over the world, on a scale not even comparable to its parent company Fiat, that produces mass-market economy cars. This is really a no-brainer imho. Cheers, --Conte di Cavour (talk) 16:21, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

With the all due respect for Joobo's opinion, I also strong support the use of a Ferrari's picture in the article. Whoever oppose the use of it should understand first how much design is a main feature of Italian business and Ferrari is an ambassador brand of Italian design. Silvio1973 (talk) 09:20, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Joobo is blocked since last year Because he have destroyed pages and him had warring edits with other users. I think it is better to replace the Picture of the Fiat with the Ferrari image, the Ferrari image was always here, other countries like the UK have similar images, so , why the attention only to the Italian page?. all was in peace until he came here protesting about the Ferrari image, I will Put again the image of Ferrari since hes intention was cleary to "destroy" instead to colaborate with other users.LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 19:38, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 January 2018

Just adding one more picture, to represent better beauties in the South 

Adding this picture in the Geography section, between picture of Faraglioni and picture of Sant'Antioco:

http://static.salento.com/salento/images/headers/al-mare.jpg Adding some text "like View of a sand beach in the Apulia Region" Thanks :) Wikikamo (talk) 13:08, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done: Ciao Wikikamo, e benvenuto a Wikipedia inglese. We can not include pictures hosted on other servers for copyright reasons. For more information look at Wikipedia:Image use policy. But it is a beautiful picture. :-) Sam Sailor 13:58, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2018

"Sport" section: Rewrite the information about the Italy men's national volleyball team, or delete it. 140.198.175.135 (talk) 15:56, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

 Done ~ Amory (u • t • c) 17:20, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Include Deputy PM's in the Infobox?

I think we should include the Deputy PM's in the infobox because while in most other cases they are not important enough to be included, Italy is an exception because the two Deputy PM's in this case are the leaders of the two governing parties, and Matteo Salvini has most certainly drawn some significant media attention for his aggressive migrant policy, overshadowing even the senior Deputy PM Luigi Di Maio and PM Conte. Also, for example the articles for the Netherlands and Japan also includes the Deputy PM's so including them here would not be totally unprecedented. - Bokmanrocks01 (talk) 00:44, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

'Strong oppose in the news is no reason to highlight a non elected position in a democracy article. Are these appointed positions even mentioned in the article?--Moxy (talk) 00:52, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
The Italian Prime Minister is not elected either but instead appointed by the President. So by your standard the PM should not be included? And also, the standard usually is the actually influence and power the office wields, and the Deputy PM's absolutely are relevant on this basis. In fact, the PM Giuseppe Conte was made PM by Di Maio and Salvini, as per this article on the coalition: "On 21 May, Di Maio and Salvini proposed the private law professor Giuseppe Conte as new Prime Minister while themselves would serve as Deputy Prime Ministers." - Bokmanrocks01 (talk) 01:52, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
So again you want to add a person to the box that's not in the article? This is definitely not the norm as the box just regurgitate informatio.....does leading our readers to his page help us understand the government system....or is it just a personal bio?--Moxy (talk) 02:23, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Formation of Italy

I recently edited the Italy article regarding the formation of the nation. In it, I added Ancient Rome (Kingdom, Empire, and Western Empire). However, these were removed several times. I thought it was evident that Ancient Rome was important in the development of Italy, so I did not include any source. The reason I made this edit was because other nations have ancient kingdoms listed in their formation and are not removed, such as Iran, China, Japan, Greece, etc. Here is a good source: Roman Italy. I don't see why other nations are allowed to have their ancient civilizations listed, yet Italy cannot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:42:901:E7A0:DD4A:B31F:C02A:F1C2 (talk) 03:14, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

As an advice, please leave an edit summary when making potentially conflictive changes in the future. As for including the Romans as a formation step of this country, I'd say I have my doubts. The current Italian state is a purely modern creation, started in the 19th century during the raise of nationalist movements through Europe (paralleling the German unification, the Greece's independence war and other events). However, it is true the Italian nationalists cited the past Roman glories (as the later ultra-nationalist Fascists also did). You're right in saying other country articles tend to include "establishment" events that have little to do with the current state (except the China and Japan cases), but WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS can't be considered an argument to make the same here. I'd say a good solution for dubious countries like this is removing all "establishment" dates. In any case, I'm not a great expert on the matter, so I'd like to hear other editors' opinions. --Urbanoc (talk) 10:20, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Fully support

1-Italy, as a homeland, was conceived by the Romans. Roughly with the same border of today.

2-Italy, as a nation, originated in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. And with nation, I mean people.

3-Italy, as a state, originated in the Risorgimento.

That's for sure. Barjimoa (talk) 08:53, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Just a friendly reminder that Wikipedia content is derived from reliable sources, not personal analysis.  Swarm  talk  09:59, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
The sources are both modern and ancient (Livy, Polybius, Pliny the Elder, Augustus in his res gestae divi augusti) and there are many of them. I'll add them later. Barjimoa (talk) 11:45, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
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