Talk:Kekal

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Kekal has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 4, 2011	Good article nominee	Listed
October 31, 2024	Good article reassessment	Kept

Current status: Good article

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Metal

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Help

Usage of WP:RS wouold be of help for this article Satu Suro 23:03, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Has anyone found any reliable source on the web that mentions Kekal being post-metal? Everything I've found traces back to Wikipedia.--3family6 21:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, I found something. Added it as a reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3family6 (talk • contribs) 13:48, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can tell, this source is unreliable, so I removed it.--3family6 (talk) 02:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Christian metal?

Should Kekal be described and/or categorized as Christian metal or not? Here is an interview with HM Magazine, and then see Wikipedia entry for Christian metal.--3family6 20:32, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Personal opinion: no, because in the Chronicles of Chaos interview they explain that labeling a band that is outside US or even Europe a 'Christian metal band' is uncommon in the native country. In Indonesia they do not use such terms commonly (although some Kekal members are currently in Canada). I mean, even in US and Europe labeing bands 'Christian metal' is somewhat considered awkward on a larger scale, even though the movement exists for a reason (as a counteraction to the 'satanic' nature of the early 1980s metal) - which is why the main wiki article (Christian metal) exists. Yes, they are mentioned in that article because they were somewhat part of the history and are often mentioned in 'zines (not to mention that Allmusic cites them as possibly one of the first Christian black metal bands). They did state in the CoC intervew that they think it's cool that they are accepted in the Christian metal scene - just wish not to be labeled Christian metal (and their recent lyrics are more about philosophy, existentialism etc.). Let's respect that.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:51, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I personally am neutral on whether they are called that or not. From what I have seen on talk pages about Christian metal, whether or not a band considers themselves "Christian metal" or not is not the only criteria for them being under that category. (I think there's a policy about that type of thing somewhere on the site, but I don't remember where it is.) But as you said, there also is, or at least was, no "Christian metal" category in Indonesia, so I think that would exclude them from that category on Wikipedia.--3family6 18:15, 11 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3family6 (talk • contribs)

Future reworking

I am planning to do another, possibly extensive batch of work on this article and the album pages. Many of the sources here, many of which I added, are not that reliable, and so I plan to rework the article somewhat and remove those sources. If there is some info that needs sourcing, I may talk with the band on its Facebook to get some history and biographical info, if need be. --3family6 00:12, 2 December 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3family6 (talk • contribs)

Done. I plan to do a section on the band's style and involvement with Christian metal.--3family6 (talk) 02:03, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Kudos to FungiKwaku for the section on songwriting.--3family6 (talk) 03:01, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

regarding "Christian metal"

In the flurry of edits that have just happened, the band's stance on Christianity has seen a lot of action. The argument being put forward is that this is controversial. I think this controversy should be addressed, but it needs some solid sourcing. Perhaps the whole section should be moved here until sources can be found?--3family6 (talk) 03:10, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work, FungiKwaku. Everything appears sourced now.--3family6 (talk) 13:11, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kekal/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: 12george1 (talk) 05:04, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lede

"...Jakarta, Indonesia which according to Allmusic was one of the first heavy metal bands from Indonesia to make international inroads." - Try reading this phrase; wouldn't it read better if you added a comma after "Indonesia" and "Allmusic"? --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Through its career, the band has released 7 full length studio albums, 2 compilation albums, 2 demo tapes..." - All numbers less than 10 should be spelled-out (exceptions: if the number has to appear that way, such as the album "8"; or dates, such as January 1) --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Early years (formation to 2002)

Delink "extreme metal", as it is already linked in the lede --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"On June 1996, Azhar Sianturi joined Kekal..." - Change to "In June 1996" --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

International scene (2003-2006)

There is no citations for either paragraph --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jeff's move to Canada (2006-2007)

Delink "Jeff Arwadi", since it is already wikilinked in the lede. --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No references on the last sentence of either paragraph --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Departure of band members (2009)

"Shortly after, Kekal put up an offer of 3 albums..." - Remember, spell-out numbers less than 10 --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The last sentence of the second paragraph is unreferenced --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Style

Move the audio clip of "Our Urban Industry Runs Monotonously" to the top of the section, and not in a random spot within the text, because this part of the following sentence: "The band’s well received fifth album, Acidity, mixed black metal and double bass drum blasts with progressive metal, progressive rock," and the other part: "classic rock, jazz, and ambient styles which led to the band being labeled “avant-garde,..." look like there on two separate paragraphs. --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delink: "1000 Thoughts of Violence", "progressive metal", and "The Habit of Fire" --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Songwriting and recording techniques

Delink: "The Painful Experience", "jazz", and "The Habit of Fire" --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kekal and DIY ethic

No reference on that last sentence --Moved sentence, might still need ref.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Former members

There is no reference for the following people: Leo Setiawan, Harry, Newbabe, and Yeris. --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Guest musicians

Again, no references, on the following people: Kenny Cheong, Jason DeRon, Doctor D, Hana, and Vera. --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discography

Only referenced on "Covered in Filth: A Tribute to Cradle of Filth - 2003" and "elf Krusher compilation: 5th Anniversary THT Productions - 2001" --Done.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

References

Be consistent with the dates; on ref #1 there is "March 14, 1999", but on ref #32 it says "10 April - 2004". --Will do.--3family6 (talk) 14:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Summary: Good job on improving the article, I will now be passing it for GA. Congratulations, --12george1 (talk) 15:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dates format

I have changed Kekal's albums dates to day-month-year format ("30 January 2011") as they previously mixed various date formats; I noticed that this article consistently uses a month-day-year format ("August 15, 1995") in its body, but its references don't have a consistent format. Should I change the format of the albums and of this article references to M-D-Y ("January 30, 2011"), or should I change this article format to D-M-Y ("15 August 1995") in its body and references? Nite-Sirk (talk) 20:09, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Right now, the article body is using American English. I don't know whether this or British English is appropriate for an Indonesian subject article, it would depend on which form is more common in Indonesia. If it is British English, the dates would have to be changed, along with some of the grammar and maybe some spelling. The References should follow the article body.--¿3family6 _contribs 21:38, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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GA concerns

I am concerned that this article no longer meets the good article criteria because there are several "non-primary source needed" tags from 2019. Is anyone willing to address these, or should this go to WP:GAR? Z1720 (talk) 20:15, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment

Kekal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: Kept. 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ ^{【=◈︿◈=】} 14:41, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are several "non-primary source needed" tags from 2019 that need to be resolved. Z1720 (talk) 15:28, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh wow, yeah, this article needs some cleaning up. I think someone was over-zealous with the tags, but there is a LOT of material that needs outside sourcing. The page also needs to be updated in general. I'm in the process of working on this.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 16:31, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've done some work, how is it now?-- 3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 16:57, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@3family6: It looks a lot better. I added some cn tags. Some of the paragraphs are quite long and should be broken up, like the last paragraph of "Early years (formation to 2002)", both paragraphs in "Style", and the first and last paragraph of "Kekal and Christianity". I think the second paragraph of "Influences" should be removed as it is cited to Pintrest. Are there any more recent sources that can be added to the article, especially to replace social media inline citations? Z1720 (talk) 17:08, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That one missing citation I thought I'd added. It's done, now. I'm going to work on that "Christianity" paragraph, it is indeed excessively long.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 19:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done some more work. I'm finding lots of deadlinks, but with Internet Archive having those issues right now I'm having to manually catch them rather than running the bot.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 20:26, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 3family6, do you intend to work further on this article? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:32, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have. Was awaiting a response from Z1720. I apologize for not following up regarding the deadlinks being resolved and my other cleanup work.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 17:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@3family6: The article looks a lot better. I added some citation needed tags. Z1720 (talk) 21:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: Wow, one of those was a line that got left in from ten years ago when I removed a source that I couldn't verify. Deleted. The other statement I corrected to say that the debut album DIDN'T have European and North American distribution, and provided a source for that. Anything else?--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:37, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no more concerns with this article. Z1720 (talk) 23:00, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.