Talk:LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman

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Good articleLNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
November 4, 2012Good article nomineeListed

Plaque recording the 1989 record for longest non-stop run by a steam locomotive[edit]

Can anyone verify that Flying Scotsman has (or had) been fitted with a plaque to commemorate its record 422 mile non-stop run between Parkes and Broken Hill in Australia in 1989? (And cite a reference?) Zzrbiker (talk) 04:13, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

also, the fleet number would have been 4472 in 1988. But I don't know the year range. Dave Rave (talk) 07:09, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

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Costs[edit]

A huge amount has recently been spent restoring it. It would be useful to know how much it originally cost, in both historic and equivalent modern pricing. Can someone oblige? Thanks Speculatrix (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:35, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Speed Record[edit]

Before I undo the undo that undid my edit, a couple of points...

The article states as fact that the 4472 achieved 100 mph in 1934. It does not mention that this is still subject to debate - and it is widely considered by experts that the maximum speed was 98 mph. For instance O S Nock stated: C.J.Allen clocked two alternative quarter mile speeds of 97.3 mph, whereas the dynamometer car chart showed a marked but rather unnatural peak of exactly 100mph. Allen himself...quoted 98 mph in his log. Nock concluded there was as much doubt about 4472's speed as previous claimants to the record. The article should mention this issue.

What does "officially authenticated" mean? With Land Speed and Air Speed records that phrase makes sense eg "The rules for all official aviation records are defined by Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), which also ratifies any claims." But with 4472 there was no independent witness and no independent body to authenticate the claim. Suggest "officially authenticated" has no place in this article. --Pallata (talk) 19:06, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

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Main photo[edit]

Wouldn't it make sense to find a more appropriate photo for the info box? The photo used is from 2003 and shows Scotsman in a livery it never wore: According to the article, the double chimney, banjo dome and smoke deflectors were fitted in BR-times, thus it should be in BR-green, not LNER apple green, and it should wear the number 60103. There should be plenty of recent photographs since the overhaul addressing these issues. Alternatively, the article features historical photos or some decent pictures from 1989 which better match the 4472-number.--GrafLukas (talk) 10:06, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

You say "a livery it never wore" - but clearly it did carry that livery, since there is photographic evidence. If your point is that it never carried that livery when in main line service (i.e. between 1923 and 1963), that may be true; but the locomotive has now lasted longer in preservation (55 years) than in main line service (40 years). The locomotive's owners surely have the right to paint it whatever colour they like. It's not the only such instance: LMS Fairburn 2-6-4T no. 42085 was painted Caledonian Railway blue for a period whilst preserved on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite Railway. See also WP:GREATWRONGS. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:04, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Redrose64, you are missing the point. You are right: I meant "it never wore in active service". I am not suggesting anything listed under WP:GREATWRONGS. I am merely asking if it would not be more appropriate having another picture as main photo - e.g. something quite more recent. I do not object to other liveries being mentioned in the article and pictures to accompany it. I will try to upload a decent picture I took recently during a visit to Shildon/Locomotion to Commons showing the engine in its current livery and under steam. Perhaps that can be used, then. Any objections?--GrafLukas (talk) 12:43, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
I have taken the liberty of changing the picture now. Hope you like it that way.--GrafLukas (talk) 21:16, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

LNER 4472 : FLYING SCOTSMAN:[edit]

My husband rescued Flying Scotsman when Alan Pegler ran ut of money in America. My husband ran her, and cared for her for 23 years. When Tony Marchignton ran out of money, my husband arranged for the National Railway Museum to take her. I have not looked at Wikepedia before but did the other day to find a lot of inaccuracies. I corrected these inaccuracies and have been the subject of some considerable abuse from people who do not understand that MY sources are simple facts as known by me from conversations with both Alan Pegler and, more importantly, my husband. Quite what these people expect a wife to offer as "sources" other than that whichI did state, I cannot imagine. As my husband died earlier tis year and cannot correct inaccuracies himself, I think it reasonable that his wife sould do so. I am aware now, thanks to someone who lives in Atlanta and cannot possibly know the facts either about my husband or his relationship with the engines he owned! that there is also a considerable amoount of inaccuracy on Wikepedia about my husband himself, not just his ownership of Scotsman. My entries are ALL verifiable should anyone wish to spseak to me or to read the only book that has yet been written about Sir William McAlpine's engines and carriages. I have neither the time nor right now the stamina to go through the pages yet again and re-correct other people's inaccuracies if I think that those who do NOT know the truth are simply going to remove my accurate corrections. Lady McAlpine (Boris is a Labrador) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Borismcalpine (talkcontribs) 00:00, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

@Borismcalpine: First, how do we know that you are who you claim to be? Are you the real Lady McAlpine, or a dog? Or somebody else who is pretending? Second, and more importantly, we have certain core policies, including: verifiability, no original research, and neutrality, all of which need to be observed carefully. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:12, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
Relying on personal knowledge is a problem as the reader can't verify it. There has to be a citation to a published source. But the book mentioned by Lady McAlpine does exist -- Sir William McAlpine: A Tale of Locomotives, Carriages and Conservation, by John Chacksfield, The Oakwood Press, 2009, ISBN 978-0853616884. It has a picture of Flying Scotsman on the cover. Amazon say it's currently unavailable. According to the contents note on Amazon, pages 45-55 cover Sir William's acquisition of Scotsman, and pages 81-85 cover the loco's tours abroad under his stewardship. If Lady McAlpine, or anyone else with access to a copy, could correct any inaccuracies in the article with page-number citations to Chacksfield, and add the book to the bibliography, that would presumably work. Khamba Tendal (talk) 17:50, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
ISBN 978-0853616887 Andy Dingley (talk) 18:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)