Talk:List of Presidents of Brazil

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Untitled[edit]

Does "renounced" mean "resigned"? Art LaPella 23:23, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Observation[edit]

Lula is the 39th president, for Julio Prestes and Tancredo Neves never swear (the first revolution of 1930, the second for getting sick on the eve of possession and soon died)! Rodrigues Alves had a mandate and died before the second term swear! Moreover, even had the Board of Governors and military, accounted for respectively, replace the possession of Julio Prestes, and represent the termination of the mandate of Costa e Silva! That is, 39 presidents have ruled the country, being the last of President Lula, right? I made the same observation in Portuguese Wikipedia!

Several Problems with the List[edit]

There are several problems with this list as it stands:

- First, this is a list of Presidents, but the list includes, without any special qualification or observation, the names of people who never held that office, and those people are listed with name, picture and dates of service, as if they were Presidents (e.g. members of the Military Juntas of 1930 and 1969; Ranieri Mazilli's first period of service -- in which he was only Acting President until the inauguration of Goulart, etc). One who reads the list has the impression that Isaias de Noronha, for example, was president, and that is not correct, as he was only a member of a Junta.

- Second, Deodoro da Fonseca and Getúlio Vargas served as Heads of the Provisional Government before being elected President in 1891 and 1934, respectively. Deodoro was Head of Provisional Government from November 15th, 1889 until February 1891, and Vargas was Head of Provisional Government from 1930 to 1934. The period served in that capacity should not be confused with the Presidency. One who reads the list has the impression that Deodoro became President in 1889 and that Vargas became president in 1930, which is innacurate. So the list should be changed to reflect two distinct terms of service.

- Regarding Vargas, perhaps the list should also be amended to separate his term before and after his coup d'état of November 10, 1937, when he became a dictator until being deposed in 1945.

- The list says that Tancredo Neves died on the eve of his inauguration; that is plain wrong. He was to be inaugurated on March 15, 1985, when his term would begin. On the eve of inauguration day, he fell ill and was hospitalized, which prevented him from attending his inauguration, but he did not die until April 21, 1985. So, for weeks, there was hope that he would recover and take office. Vice-President Sarney took the oath of office as Vice-President on March 15, and immediately assumed the powers of the presidency as Acting President. Sarney only assumed the title of President after Tancredo Neves' death on April 21, and a separate joint session of Congress recorded that fact. So it is wrong to say that Neves died on the eve of his inauguration.

- Also regarding Tancredo Neves, although he died on April 21, 1985, weeks into the term of office to which he was elected, he never took the presidential oath before Congress, as required by Brazil's Constitution, as he was hospitalized on the eve of the inauguration. So, he actually died a President elect, and not a President of Brazil, as his investiture before Congress, required by the Constitution, never took place. For that reason, in honour to his memory, Congress passed, and on the first anniversary of Neves' death President Sarney signed the Law 7.465 of 1986, declaring that Neves should be counted, for all legal intents and purposes, among the Presidents of Brazil. Therefore, he wasn't actually President, but is counted among them by special provision of law, and that fact should also be registered in the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonio Basto (talkcontribs) 16:18, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I today implemented several changes to the list so as to address the problems mentioned above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.122.228.125 (talk) 21:34, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Adding Dilma[edit]

Adding Dilma Rouseff as the successor of Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, his election victory has just been officially announced in Brazil. Sources: [1]
- Eduardo Sellan III (talk) 22:30, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I removed that. She was elected indeed, but she was never a president of Brazil... not yet.” TeLeS (PT @ L C G) 18:51, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Not so, Júlio Prestes and Tancredo Neves also never took possession and are on the list. It is possible that Dilma be unable to assume the Presidency of Brazil, but if this happens it will be recorded in the list even without her taking office. - Eduardo Sellan III (talk) 15:02, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
"It is possible that Dilma be unable to assume the Presidency of Brazil" - That's right... it's "possible". As you said, she didn't assume the presidency. She is not and never was the president of Brazil and would not be correct to list her on list of "presidents" if she is not. We have to wait until she takes office. By the way, the others were not presidents either.” TeLeS (PT @ L C G) 19:50, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

End of term[edit]

In Brazil, a President's term of office ends on 31 December at midnight, and the successor's term begins immediately on 1 January. The President elect must still take the constitutional oath in the presence of Congress before entering into the office. But, on January 1st, the former President is no longer President, even before the President-elect takes the oath. That is why in the congressional procès-verbal recording President Dilma Rousseff's inauguration it was recorded that she was invested in the presidency for the period of "January 1st, 2011 to December 31, 2014". Although a former President is allowed to use the Planalto Palace and to wear the Presidential sash until the point in the inauguration ceremonies when he passes the sash to the sucessor, that is purely a matter of courtsey and ceremony, the former President having left office since midnight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.122.228.125 (talk) 13:10, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

The end of term dates are again incorrect for all Presidents who completed their terms normally. This is because legally, in Brazil, the term of office ends at midnight (just as was the case in America before the 20th Amendment, when one president's term ended on March 3rd, and another president was sworn in on March 4th). However, because there is this incorrect perception by people who are not legal experts that one President serves until his successor is inaugurated (or even until the presidential sash is ceremonially passed on), even the gallery of presidential portraits in the presidency's website mentions January 1st as the current end of term date for one President, and as the beggining of term date for the successor. This is wrong. The "instruments of investiture" (termos de posse) signed before Congress on inauguration day clearly state 31 December as the last day of the presidential term. For instance, Dilma Rousseff's document of investiture for her second four-year term mentions that she was invested as President for the term "from 1 January 2015 to 31 December 2018". Therefore, a portrait gallery in a website, even if it is the presidency's website, cannot prevail over the legal reality of the end of term date Here is a link to President Lula's second term instrument of investiture, mentioning that he would serve until December 31, 2010: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_do_presidente_do_Brasil#/media/File:Compromisso_constitucional_e_termo_de_posse_presidencial_Brasil_1jan2007.jpg —Preceding comment added by 179.218.128.136 on 2016-04-16 14:10:14 (UTC)

This is a good observation, and the picture of the document "Termo de Posse" was a great evidence. I hope this talk section does not get "archived". Someone just tried to "fix" those dates once again, but I have reverted them (this seems to happen quite often on this page--this is already the third time). To be clear: the term of presidency in Brazil legally ends at midnight of the day before the new president assumes the office. --HYC (talk) 04:26, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Someone messed with the term dates again, I will fix it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.218.103.150 (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

File:Fernando Collor - foto oficial.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move, per the related discussions at List of Presidents of the United States and the bundled request at Talk:List of Federal Presidents of Austria#Requested move. This issue may need a more comprehensive discussion.Cúchullain t/c 15:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


List of Presidents of BrazilList of presidents of Brazil – Per WP:CAPS, no apparent reason for caps here. Dicklyon (talk) 05:17, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Support as nom. Dicklyon (talk) 02:51, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Oppose - See Same here. Seems like all the "List of Presidents of COUNTRY X" have been requested to be renamed by Dicklyon. --MrBoire (talk) 18:32, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Not all yet; still testing the waters. This one because there is no basis at President of Brazil or in sources to claim that capitalization is needed.
Nancy Atlee The Absolutely Essential Grammar Guide 2005 Page 23 "Capitalize president and vice president only when referring to the incumbent officer or when the title comes directly before the person's name." In ictu oculi (talk) 02:15, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Oppose as stated repeatedly at all the other places that Dicklyon has tried to take his un-Capitalization Crusade. Is this supposed to be a mole-whacking game? LittleBen (talk) 08:58, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, working to gradually improve articles toward better compliance with WP:MOS is very much a mole-whacking game, and you are one of the moles. If you have reasons to oppose here, it would be good to state them. Dicklyon (talk) 21:04, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Support, unless, logically, the opposers are insisting that Politician and Cleaner and Candlestick Maker also be capped. Where would that slippery slop end? Tony (talk) 00:10, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Comment for closing admin, the same editor has opened two other RMs that affect the same set of articles, please see Talk:List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States#Requested_move and try to close them together. I have replied only in that RM because I don't want to copy/paste the same arguments in every page- --Enric Naval (talk) 13:54, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
This one should be a complete no-brainer, I thought, as the article President of Brazil and its sources don't even capitalize in that context, so we certainly wouldn't suddenly make a proper name in the "list of" context. The opposers have not said anything to contradict the rationale I started with: "no apparent reason for caps here", especially considering sources and our WP:CAPS, MOS:CAPS and WP:JOBTITLES. So if there are arguments to be made, you better make them. Dicklyon (talk) 20:55, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Should Vice President Michel Temer, be included in the list?[edit]

IMHO, Vice President Michel Temer should not be included in the list, as he's not President of Brazil. He's still Vice President & has only assumed the presidential powers & duties as Acting President. GoodDay (talk) 16:41, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Yep, not his turn, yet. Frenditor (talk) 21:52, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
On the other hand, Portuguese wiki now lists Temer, marked as interim. LookLook36 (talk) 12:04, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
So it's wrong then. He "assumed" as much as when the president travels to the exterior. BTW, don't know why there's two articles, but Presidents of Brazil needs a watchful eye too. Frenditor (talk) 12:24, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:List of Presidents of Brazil/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Substituted at 21:50, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Temer's photo needs replacement due to Vice-Presidential flag in the background[edit]

Temer's photo needs replacement, as the present photo has the Vice-Presidential Standard in the background. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.91.66.201 (talk) 20:01, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

He has not taken an official photo yet. Zelani (talk) 21:07, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Timeline[edit]

I'll add the other periods tomorrow or later this week, probably one timeline per period, but if you guys want me to, I can make one with all of them, all I'd need is to find a new color scheme for some parties with the same colors, probably like they did with the UK one where older parties are darker — Preceding unsigned comment added by SanQae (talkcontribs) 05:22, 20 September 2016 (UTC)