Talk:Louisa Johnson/Archives/2015

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because... (is because she is an amazing singer and she deserves a page on this website) --Kpboy46 (talk) 20:50, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

There is common precedent on Wikipedia that winners of TV talent shows such as the X Factor are notable for their own article. I can't believe even the most ardent deletionist will argue that she doesn't meet WP:GNG. Sionk (talk) 23:30, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 14 December 2015

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as proposed. There is a solid consensus in favor of this move. Primary topic determinations are not binary inquiries; they must consider many factors, including how primarily the topic is associated with the name at issue. Taking long term significance into account, the significance of the former First Lady as First Lady weighs towards her always being better known as "Adams". bd2412 T 15:26, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Louisa Johnson (singer) → Louisa Johnson – I understand that when this page was set up, Louisa Johnson was redirecting to Louisa Adams, a First Lady for the United States of America in the 19th century. Louisa Johnson is now a DAB page but I think that this page should be moved there simply because I think a lot more people searching for Louisa Johnson are now going to be searching for The X Factor winner rather than a former First Lady. I'm suggesting that we move this article to Louisa Johnson and maybe put a hatnote at the top of the page to include a link to the article for the former First Lady. As Louisa Johnson is only known by this name, she should be under this name on Wikipedia too making her the primary topic. 5 albert square (talk) 13:05, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose, per long-term significance (WP:PRIMARYTOPIC). The singer has yet to establish whether she will have any. If this wasn't the ex-first lady's maiden name, then there would be no debate. A case could be made that the hatnote belongs on Louisa Adams, but I'll concede the disambiguation while the singer has her time in the spotlight. "A topic is primary for a term, with respect to long-term significance, if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term." Wbm1058 (talk) 13:22, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support, because the article on the First Lady is located at Louisa Adams, therefore the singer is the primary topic for the name Louisa Johnson. The redirect was only in place because there was no other Louisa Johnson on Wikipedia at the time. Now there is, so someone who is only known by that name should be the primary topic over someone who is primarily known by a different name. AnemoneProjectors 13:28, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

This is in a gray zone, but would you make the same argument if the singer's name was Hillary Rodham? She is a former first lady primarily known by a different name. Wbm1058 (talk) 14:35, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

But her name isn't Hillary Rodham, it's Louisa Johnson. I didn't really want to bring up other articles but I'm going to anyway: Caroline Scott doesn't redirect to Caroline Harrison. Many other birth names of First Ladies, spouses of British Prime Ministers and all sorts of other people link to disambiguation pages, or redirect to the person if nobody else has that name, while some don't even redirect at all. AnemoneProjectors 15:10, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose the primary topic in books is clearly the wife of John Quincy Adams. (Closing admin please disregard the comment "because the article on the First Lady is located at Louisa Adams, therefore the singer is the primary topic for the name Louisa Johnson" as contrary to WP:DISAMBIGUATION. However now a dab page has been made, okay to leave the dab at baseline. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:11, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support - It doesn't make sense for someone to have PRIMARYTOPIC if they don't actually use that name..... Basically in terms of naming there's only one Louisa Johnson & that's the XFactor singer.... –Davey2010^Talk 18:53, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support. The primary topic for "Louisa Johnson" at the moment is clearly the singer, as she is the only one commonly referred to by that name alone - from my research it seems that the former first lady is much less commonly called by that name than "Louisa Adams" or "Louisa Johnson Adams". With the singer's article at the base title and provided with a hatnote, most people searching will find the page they are looking for directly, those searching for the first lady will be one click away. With the disambiguation page as primary, nobody gets where they want directly. Thryduulf (talk) 19:49, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support. Wikipedia is a work in progress. We can always move it back if necessary. Right now, Johnson is more notable than Adams.--Launchballer 21:42, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The topic could certainly redirect to Louisa Adams per WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, but here the usage is pretty clear-cut. Look at usage for last month for the singer article, and two years ago when the basename was a redirect to the first lady page:

• Louisa Johnson (singer) - 2,400 views
• Louisa Johnson - 144 views

That's 16:1, or 94% in favor of the singer. Even taking recentism into account, that's dramatically more of our readers interested in the singer. And aren't we trying to help get our readers where they want, instead of a dab page? Dohn joe (talk) 14:35, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

• Support, not on the basis of recentist arguments (this is a 17 year old who has barely had a chance to step out of the taxi home from the X Factor final), but based on the argument outlined by AnemoneProjectors. All of the sources in the Louisa Adams article point to the fact she was known publicly as Louisa Adams, not Louisa Johnson. Sionk (talk) 20:02, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Film Fan 12:56, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support. Louisa Adams is referred to as Louisa Adams, not Louisa Johnson. Unreal7 (talk) 15:50, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose on the basis of long terms significance. Currently this article for the signer does not support the basis of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. While digital searches may show greater results for the singer, when you consider all sources including gbooks, etc., you see the scales tip significantly towards Adams. I am rarely a fan of a redirect being a primary topic, so the DAB is probably best for now. Also because redirecting to a different name (Adams) could be confusing for the person looking for the singer. The DAB is really the best place for this. Tiggerjay (talk) 18:04, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.