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born in Haifa, Palestine

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Should be Haifa, Israel. Is this Vandalism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.153.53.150 (talk) 16:31, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, it isn't. What vandalism is and isn't at Wikipedia is specified at WP:VANDAL. The basic line here is Don't rewrite history. Safdie was born in 1938, ten years prior to the foundation of the State of Israel. --Soman (talk) 17:53, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Before 1948, Israel was not established ... I would say British Mandate for Palestine —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.122.82.185 (talk) 05:49, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent student?

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Under the heading 'Career' the first statement, an excellent student...isnt that more opinion then fact, if so, is there something to back up he is a excellent student? like doing Uni level maths at the age of three? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.131.104 (talk) 22:00, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted text

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I've deleted text added by User:Sarahmperz several times, for the following reasons:

  • the tone is not encyclopedic
  • it is a direct copy of text found on other websites
  • it is contributed by someone with a WP:COI|conflict of interest]] in this article
  • it is of no importance to the article

Text added to articles may not be copied from other websites, even those you create, unless that text is licenced in a form acceptable for distribution by Wikipedia, and copyable by other entities. Further, the tone must be encyclopedic, not an essay or marketing spiel (eg - "We conceive of architecture as a natural extension of its surroundings" and "A central goal of our work is to create unique spaces and forms"). In fact, the entirety of the text deleted has little substance about the subject of this article. Mindmatrix 00:45, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

is Michal Ronnen a man or a woman?

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The article states Mr. Safdie is married to a "Michal Ronnen" with whom he has 2 kids. "Michal" is a male name. So, Mr. Safdie must be bi-sexual now, because before that, he was married to a woman (wife). And can he "have" kids with a man? He could have adopted them. Homosexuals often do under the new law. But then plase state so. Or is that mysterious "Michal" person a woman after all? But in what language is "Michal" female? I know Mr. Safdie from TV interviews, and I don't think he is bisexual. He acts very heterosexual. Please explain! 93.219.155.159 (talk) 08:30, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

ST> It is actually very easy to google that Michal Ronnen is indeed a woman and a photographer. Was there a need to write such a long and detailed question while you would spend much less time doing the homework? Direct link: Her biography --198.48.196.222 (talk) 01:40, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The Lebanese origins of the Safdie/Safdieh branch of Moshe Safdie

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Moise Safdie, born circa 1865, father of Leon Safdie (Aleppo, 1907-Canada, 1986), and grandfather of the arquitect Moshe Safdie, was actually very likely born in Beirut or Lebanon (perhaps Tripoli) around 1865 (as some family trees on Ancestry already indicate here https://www.ancestry.com/search/categories/42/?name=Moise_Safdie&birth=_beyrouth-lebanon_874999&birth_x=_1-0&count=50 (need to click view all 10 trees), and not in Aleppo, and the Safdies/Safdiehs branch of Moise is very likely a Lebanese branch (there are at least 3-4 Safdie/Safdieh families based in Lebanon and Aleppo than seem to be unrelated to each other).


The combined evidence that supports that Moise Safdie was likely from Beirut or Lebanon and that the Safdies of Moshe Safdie are Lebanese is:


1) Ibrahim Safdie, a son of Moise and brother of Leon, (born in Alepo in 1906), obtained the Lebanese nationality, in 1958 he obtained his Lebanese passport in the Lebanese Embasy in Ottawa, Canada as can be seen here https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC6T-L9B .

Since 1921, in order for someone to obtain the Lebanese nationality (even if born outside of Lebanon) HIS FATHER NEEDS TO HAVE BEEN BORN IN LEBANON as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_nationality_law and someone born in Lebanon to a foreign father no matter for how long that person resides in Lebanon CANNOT obtain citizenship as you can see in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization#Summary_by_country. Only a foreign woman married to a Lebanese citizen can obtain the citizenship by naturalization.

All of Ibrahim Safdie's daughters were born in Beirut and Symbol, the oldest, obtained her Lebanese nationality as well: Symbol (b.Beriut, Lebanese citizenship, obtained Lebanese passport in 1955 in the Lebanese Embassy in Ottawa, residing in Milano in 1959) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:27N8-2R4 (Symbol naturalized herself in Canada in 1959)- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KX24-R59 Diana (b. Beirut, N. Canada in 1959 in Montreal, residing in Montreal in 1959)- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KX2S-R4T Mireille (b. Beirut, N. Canada)- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KX2S-R4V


2) Renne/Reina/"Tanno", a daughter of Moise and sister of Leon (b. Alepo in 1899) who naturalized herself in Mandatory Palestine around the 1940s due to her and her Lebanese husband residing in Haifa then, obtained Israeli passport in 1953. She married Joseph Setton born 1889 in Beirut, who had Lebanese citizenship, son of Selim Setton and Latifeh Safdie, a possible nephew of Moise and cousin of Leon and Renne)- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FFT2-2TV Naturaliztion of her Lebanese husband Joseph Setton in Haifa (Mandatory Palestine) in 1940 https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-10902-43537/joseph-sitton-%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%A3-%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%98%D7%95%D7%9F-in-mandatory-palestine-naturalization-applications?s=733544361

Latifeh Safdie, mother of Joseph Setton, was the daughter of a Joseph Safdieh who was born in Beirut and had Lebanese citizenship and whose children out of his two marriages were born in Beirut around 1870-1900 as you can see here https://farhi.org/wc220/wc220_348.html. Since its very common for jews to marry their cousins and nephews/nieces, Joseph and Moise were likely brothers. Moise Safdie and Simbol Hamwi also named one of their daughters Latife, like Moise's possible nephew (or sister/cousin).

Joseph's children married the Mann, Dichy, Yedid Levy and Harari jewish families of Lebanon. Most of them either stayed and died in Beirut, as you can see in the link at the end of the Beirut burials, or migrated to Brazil (like the Yedid Levy-Safdies , Dichy-Safdies and Safdie-Setton) exactly like the descendants of Moise Safdie and Simbol Hamwi.

The clearest evidence for Joseph Safdieh's Lebanese origins is that a son of his, Moise, married his niece Lilly Setton, sister of Joseph Setton above, and she maintained her Lebanese citizenship after marrying Moise her uncle. Which means that Moise had to have had Lebanese citizenship due to his father Joseph having been born in Lebanon. Lilly Setton (b. Beirut in 1915, n. Lebanese, d. Colombia) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKM3-JY6F m. her uncle, Moise/Moshe Safdie, son of Joseph Safdie https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/jowbr.php?rec=J_COLOMBIA_0002510 and they had Joseph Safdie Setton who was born in Cairo in 1934 and died in Bogota https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/jowbr.php?rec=J_COLOMBIA_0002644


3) Intermarriage with Lebanese jews in Lebanon. Besides Renne above, Latife/Latifeh Safdie, another daughter of Moise and sister of Leon, married Lebanese Abraham Dwek in 1921 in Aley, Lebanon as seen in https://farhi.org/wc103/wc103_371.html, obtained Lebanese citinzenship due to her marriage as can be seen here https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKMS-2RNP, and all of their children were born in Beirut and married the Benaroyas who were Lebanese Jews https://farhi.org/wc103/wc103_371.html.


4) Leon Safdie, the father of Moshe Safdie, had Sylvia Safdie in Aley, Lebanon in 1942 as can be read here http://www.sylviasafdie.com/biography-and-cv/ and had Moshe Safdie, our arquitect in question, in Haifa in 1938. Lebanese Jews were known to have houses and residences in Haifa as said in https://books.google.se/books?id=pxgonnuybEgC&pg=PA205&dq=lebanese+jews+haifa&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy6I7W-PboAhXwwcQBHchkCNoQ6AEIMTAB#v=onepage&q=lebanese%20jews%20haifa&f=false. Leon and two of his sisters Bahie and Renne were residing in Haifa around 1940 and naturalized themselves there as can be see in https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-61ZQ-LD?i=97&cc=1932363 and https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FFT2-2TV


5) Oldest burials both in Beirut and Aleppo of Safdie/Safdies mention Beirut and Tripoli as the place of death and the place of origin of their parents. Simbol Hamwi, wife of Moise Safdie, and grandmother of arquitect Moshe Safdieh was also born in Beirut and died in 1948 in Beirut as you can see here https://farhi.org/wc19/wc19_344.html You can see she is buried in Beirut in the Beirut burials of the Safdie's link here https://www.sephardicgen.com/databases/BeirutCemeterySearchEngine.php?NoKind=exact&NoMax=&SurnameKind=contains&SurnameSoundex=&SurnameMax=Safdieh&GivenNameKind=contains&GivenNameSoundex=&GivenNameMax=&FathersNameKind=exact&FathersNameMax=&SpousessurnameKind=contains&SpousessurnameSoundex=&SpousessurnameMax=&SpousesGivenNameKind=contains&SpousesGivenNameSoundex=&SpousesGivenNameMax=&GenderKind=exact&GenderMax=&GregorianDateofDeathDayKind=exact&GregorianDateofDeathDayMax=&GregorianDateofDeathMonthKind=exact&GregorianDateofDeathMonthMax=&GregorianDateofDeathYearKind=exact&GregorianDateofDeathYearMax=&HebrewDateofDeathKind=exact&HebrewDateofDeathMax=&AgeyearsKind=exact&AgeyearsMax=&TombstonematerialKind=exact&TombstonematerialMax=&StateofGraveKind=exact&StateofGraveMax=&NotesKind=exact&NotesMax=&offset=1&pagesize=20 You can also see a Gabriel Safdie buried in Beirut, possibly another brother of Joseph Safdie and Moise. Moise Safdie also had a son named Gabriel Djabra who died in Italy and whose son became bankers in Brazil (Edmond Safdie et al)

Yes there are Safdieh burials in Aleppo with the oldest being from 1927 of Ezra Safdieh as you can see here https://aleppojews.co.il/en/aleppo-cemetery/ and here https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/jowbr.php?rec=J_SYRIA_0000318 but they do not seem to be the same branch as that of Joseph and Moise Safdieh due to none of the ancestors or descendants of Joseph nor Moise being buried there. They seem to be the ancestors or descendants of this Safdieh family https://www.farhi.org/wc246/wc246_452.html which is not related to the branch of Joseph and Moise neither by blood nor by marriage and whose descendants migrated to Jerusalem/Israel and Argentina and not to Beirut/Brazil.

You can also see in Aleppo a burial of a Michael Safdieh whose wife Yitzak Saadia was from Beirut here https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/jowbr.php?rec=J_SYRIA_0000334Chris O' Hare (talk) 12:51, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately the sources that you used here (Ancestry.com, Familysearch ) are not accepted by wikipedia and listed as generally unreliable on WP:RSP. Please check https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources
The reason for that is that these are user-generated sources. Unacceptable per
"Examples of unacceptable user-generated sources are Ancestry.com, Discogs, Facebook, Famous Birthdays, Fandom, Find a Grave, Goodreads, IMDb, Instagram, Know Your Meme, ODMP, Reddit, Snapchat, TikTok, Tumblr, TV Tropes, Twitter, WhoSampled"
Moreover, combing and synthesizing sources from here and there are considered an original research and are exactly what
Tells us not to do.
"Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source"
There are simply no reliable source anywhere on the web that says he has Lebanese jewish descent
Lastly, Moshe published a book in 2022 called: "If Walls Could Speak" in which he writes that both of his parents traced their roots to Aleppo. https://books.google.com/books?id=iXFqEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT25&dq=moshe+safdie+aleppo&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjr3vuM86eDAxXQgv0HHUqSBF8Q6AF6BAgIEAM#v=onepage&q=moshe%20safdie%20aleppo&f=false Whatsupkarren (talk) 10:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Israeli-Canadian or Israeli-Canadian-American as nationality

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Should Safdie be described as Israeli-Canadian or even Israeli-Canadian-American in the lead, rather than solely Israeli? I think so. Britannica lists him as Israeli-Canadian-American, which is probably the most accurate, although I've never seen triple nationality in the lead on Wiki. Universalis describes him as a "Canadian architect of Israeli origin", while Encyclopaedia.com and the Jewish Virtual Library both list him as Israeli-Canadian. In my quick Google research I found no major instance of him being described as solely Israeli. There's also a consistency issue with the article's short description and with the Habitat 67 article, which both use "Israeli-Canadian".

It feels pretty obvious to me that just "Israeli" is incomplete but I prefer discussing it before changing it to avoid appearances of nationalist editing. WikiFouf (talk) 21:12, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to "Israeli-Canadian-American" WikiFouf (talk) 16:49, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This nationality business being a bit of a minefield (see Nikola Tesla, Kazimir Malevich, Garry Kasparov, et al.), I'm reluctant to step in. Yet, in terms of simple readability, our lead has become a thick and hearty word-soup. While Israeli-Canadian-American architect of Syrian Jewish origins may be factually accurate, linguistically correct (perhaps even MOS compliant), administratively precise, and historically irrefutable, this level of geographical and socio-cultural specificity may also be something of a distraction from what Safdie actually does and what has likely brought our reader to the article in the first place (i.e., his architecture practice and other work). Wouldn't it be more to the point to start with: Moshe Safdie CC FRAIC OAA FAIA (Hebrew: משה ספדיה; born July 14, 1938) is an architect, urban planner, educator, theorist, and author. I'm not suggesting that we delete the other details, only that we move them out of the first sentence of the lead. This information can easily be included in the more detailed biographical sections of the article (or elsewhere in the lead if deemed preferable for some reason). -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 13:53, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS: The short description contains the crux of the above too (though I've just trimmed it to closer to the target WP:SD40). -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 14:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 07:00, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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