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Macedonian Origin

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Nina Ansaroff is of Macedonian origin. In the weigh-ins of UFC 187 she wore a flag of the Republic of Macedonia on her upper body. Moreover, her surname sounds Macedonian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.253.178.42 (talk) 23:35, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The UFC website says she is of Macedonian origin see [1]. Dwanyewest (talk) 23:58, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 9 April 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No Consensus User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 23:02, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nina Ansaroff → Nina Nunes – Not much to discuss. Name changed on ufc website, espn, sherdog, tapology, and social media. Not sure why we’re gate keeping this change when every reliable source has changed it. Sdpdude9 (talk) 00:01, 9 April 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 11:06, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support All page moves must be discussed before changing the name. With that being said, I support the name change.--Rockchalk717 00:33, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nomination. All current references do indeed indicate "Nunes". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:34, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As per Wikipedia WP:COMMONNAME guidelines, most sources would still use Nina Ansroff since the day she started fighting and until such time the subject meet the guidelines, many be another one two fights later where more sources are using her new names, then we will change in the near future but no now. Cassiopeia(talk) 05:37, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment WP:COMMONNAME states “(Wikipedia) generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources).” Her Instagram, her UFC.com profile, and her Sherdog all use Nunes, not mention these articles: 1 2 and this video from the UFC’s YouTube channel. That meets the requirements in COMMONNAME as that is the definition of “significant majority of independent reliable sources” because all of those sources were from when the news broke today she started using “Nunes”, and likely more sources will reflect the change now. Doesn’t get much more reliable than directly from the UFC and her social media. Yes her Twitter remains the same, but Twitter is little more strict with their verification policies and she could lose her verified status if she changes her name.--Rockchalk717 06:24, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Those sources you provided are also considered not independent or reliable (UFC/Utube/Instargram/Twitter and etc) see WP:RS and WP:IS (IRS). IRS have use Nina_Ansaroff since 2010, 10+ years as of now), and not only this few weeks info (not IRS sources) we see. We should wait some more months for more (IRS). Aslo Nate Diaz would prefer to be called Nathan instead of Nate but media do not address him as Nathan. Cassiopeia(talk) 06:28, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I think you have a complete and total misunderstanding to “reliable sources”. For starters, it’s a myth that social media isn’t a reliable source, it can be, and it’s an be used as a source if a news article doesn’t exist. We don’t move fights from “announced” to the actual fight card until the UFC adds it to the card on their website, but it’s not reliable for a name? Have you thought about the fact there is a reason the UFC updated it, and that is likely that “Nunes” is her legal and preferred name? Also that she updated her W4 (employment tax form) to reflect the new name? Independent, ok maybe not. But what about ESPN’s article on the fight were she is called “Nunes”, or this article, the majority of articles coming out are using Nunes, and I imagine she’ll be introduced at her fight as Nunes.--Rockchalk717 15:35, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. There are numerous independent, reliable sources that refer to her as Nina Nunes - her Sherdog, Tapology and ESPN profiles, articles by Sportskeeda and TSN, and videos by MMAFightingonSBN and Cageside Press. As such, this currently seems to be the consensus common name to refer to her.Diana056 (talk) 08:39, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Per discussion below. Diana056 (talk) 12:02, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Guys, Pls understand the guidelines. Pls note that the Wikipedia guidelines [[[WP:COMMONNAME]] is about "commonly known". Nina Ansaroff has been known and sourced by media for the last 10+ yeas and not only recent /this two weeks new name We dont change the subject name just because she is married to someone or just known by her new name. We could have a redirect of Nina Nunes which is already in place by the way and have the subject name change when more sources are available in the "future" when she have few more fights with the new name. Cassiopeia(talk) 08:45, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: That's true, even though a considerable number of sources refer to her as Nina Nunes now, she's still better known as Nina Ansaroff. So do you think it would be better if the article name stayed as Nina Ansaroff, but it would be indicated in the lead section that the official name she goes by is Nina Nunes (similarly to this) and a "Nina Nunes" redirect would be created to this page ? And if in a few months time majority of the sources/articles/etc. refer to her as Nina Nunes, the page could be possibly moved then. Diana056 (talk) 08:56, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment: Lead section WP:LEAD (intro) is about what is most significant info about the subject. A normal lead of a subject would be the name, the DOB, profession, what so significant about the subject / achievement that lead to the warrant of a stand alone page in Wikipedia. We have already a Nina Nunes page created that rediect to Nina Ansaroff already. This page would eventually change to name to Nina Nunes and Nina Ansaroff will eventually be a redirect, but not now for we have to adhere to the Wikipedia guidelines.
      • I would say by the end of the years if she has two more fights (3 fights in total of the new name) that would be enough sources to indicate the subject name change. Cristiane Santos (page created in 2008) and divorced in 2011 - see source here-0 and her page name changed to Cris Cyborg (in July 2017) where source stated to call here Cris Cyborg in May 2016 when she fought Leslie Smith at UFC 198 - see here-1, here-2 and here-3 that took 1+ year (3 fights) for editors to initiate and support the name change. So my propose of 3 fights for name change seems appropriate for by then there would be have enough IRS to support that. Cassiopeia(talk) 09:46, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • Comment: Agree with everything said, except the lead section part. Per MOS:CHANGEDNAME, "multiple former names may be mentioned in the lead, boldfaced if they redirect to the article". Since Nina Nunes is her full legal name now and also redirects to the article, it should be mentioned in the article's lead section. There are many biographies of married women on wiki which do mention the married/maiden name in the lead section (depending on what is their WP:COMMONNAME) - for example, the article Angelina Jolie mentions both her birth name and her formerly married name in the lead section. So the info clearly is significant enough to be mentioned in the lead section. Other than that, I fully agree with your proposal. Diana056 (talk) 12:02, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • Comment: Her new last name can be placed at the personal section for now. Those example you provided, same as Cris Cyborg" because they have been extremely well-sources for many years. Cassiopeia(talk) 00:51, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • Comment: The lead section doesn't have to follow/state only WP:COMMONNAME, it should state all notable names the person went/goes by - birth name, native name, stage/ring name, married/maiden name etc. And it definitely should state names which function as a redirect to the article. Therefore, her going by "Nina Nunes" doesn't have to be well-sourced for years, the fact that multiple notable independent and reliable sources like Sherdog, Tapology or ESPN have her listed as Nina Nunes, not to mention this her current official legal name, is enough to at least include that name in the lead section as her married and current name. Also, the fact it's her preferred name also does matter - for example, the article for Elliot Page was moved to reflect his current, preferred name even though he is still much better known under his deadname and the new name wasn't 'well-sourced for years'. User:Roman Spinner also mentioned similar case below regarding Vasyl Ivanchuk's page move. Diana056 (talk) 09:05, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sherdog, mmajunkie, espn, and tapology all used prominently to source the article now all reflect the name change. We have numerous reliable sources confirming this change. Sdpdude9 (talk) 13:41, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Sdpdudes9, Understand but pls understand the guidelines. Pls note that the Wikipedia guidelines [[[WP:COMMONNAME]] is about "commonly known". Nina Ansaroff has been known and sourced by media for the last 10+ yeas and not only recent /this two weeks new name We dont change the subject name just because she is married to someone or just known by her new name. Cassiopeia(talk) 00:51, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support All sources, not to mention the person's desire to be called by that name count in favor of the change. That being said, as Diana056 mentioned above, there's no need to remove the edit I've just made. We need to reflect tha name change in the lead section regardless of the article's title. Gsfelipe94 (talk) 19:56, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Pls note also Robert Whittaker prefer his nick name to be "just" Reaper and not also "Bobby" and Nate Diaz prefer to be called Nathan and not Nate many times would be find in not independent reliable source (said by the subject). As mentioned the page name will be changed evntually but we need to adhere to the Wikipedia guidelines after all this is Wikipedia. Cassiopeia(talk) 00:51, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. It should be noted that key elements of supporting evidence in Wikipedia discussions regarding changes of professional names are professional databases. Since subject announced her own name change, all databases changed her name. Here is Nina Nunes at Sherdog and here is Nina Nunes at UFC and at all the others, as already pointed out above. Ukrainian chess grandmaster Vasyl Ivanchuk is a recent example — for decades he was known under his Russian name, Vassily Ivanchuk, but now wished to emphasize his Ukrainian identity. He petitioned FIDE to change his name and, although a number of Wikipedians were reluctant, a lengthy discussion convinced the holdouts and the main title header was moved in the aftermath of Talk:Vasyl Ivanchuk#Requested move 18 April 2020. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support only if her fellow UFC member Lívinha Souza's article is also moved, from Lívia Renata Souza to Lívinha Souza.
  • These fighters have all altered their names in some part in the last few years: If one article is to be moved, then all four probably should be moved:
  • Some good points above. Best, --Discographer (talk) 19:06, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Again this is Wikipedia and pls understand/note WP:COMMANNAME guidelines and Wikipedia is not WP:NOTNEWS. Cassiopeia(talk) 09:55, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Relisting comment: It might be worth nothing that WP:NAMECHANGES suggests giving extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change. (Non-administrator comment) ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 11:13, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:02, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I’m going to reiterate a point I previously made since WP:COMMONNAME keeps getting mentioned. WP:COMMONNAME states “...(Wikipedia) generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources...” The majority of sources since she came out as “Nina Nunes” provide the name “Nina Nunes”. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 are all independent reliable sources using the name Nina Nunes. WP:NAMECHANGES says “If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match. If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well, as described above in "Use commonly recognizable names". So between what is said in COMMONNAME and NAMECHANGES, Wikipedia policies are pretty clear, we should use the new name.--Rockchalk717 06:40, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment (1) WP:COMMONNAME is brought up it is because this is the guidelines how an article should be named as "most commonly known" as part of Wikipedia:Article titles.- The sources are recent, past two weeks as compared to last 10 years which the subject is addressed/commonly known as Ansaroff. Just as we named the article Hannibal Barca is his real nam, the article title is just taken his first name "Hannibal" as it is most common name which many sources have addressed him - We often heard the phrase "Hannibal Brought Rome To Its Knees"[1][2][3]. and not Haniball Barca or Barca bought Rome to its knees. This also apply to subjects known by they nick names - such as professional wrestler CM Punk, whose real name is Phillip Jack Brooks, Roman emperor Caligula whose name is Gaius Caesar or a special way of addressing a subject such as Alexander the Great and not "just Alexander" or "Alexander III of Macedon".

(2) There is already a redirect from Nina Nunes to Nina Ansaroff and the name change can come later and not now. (3) Do note, and again. this is Wikipedia and not WP:NOTNEWS, for such we should adhere to and apply Wikipedia guidelines here. Just as when a subject is yet to meet the notability guidelines, it would be granted a page until such time to meet notability guidelines in Wikipedia - same reason in term of adhere to / meet the Wikipedia guidelines. Majority vote is not equal to pass Wikipedia guidelines. If Wikipedians do not apply the guidelines, then why are we here and there will not be Wikipedia in long run as if everyone has their own rules/thoughts/ apply guidelines differently/dont care or know the guidelines even after being informed. Cassiopeia(talk) 06:58, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And do note WP:NAMECHANGES, which covers this specific situation, says that because the majority of the sources after the name change use the new name, the page title should use the new name. COMMONNAME isn’t the relevant policy here because this isn’t a case like Nate Diaz vs Nathan Diaz. This is a name change. This isn’t her all of sudden going by her full first name or her middle name. She got married and has begun to use her married name. All major independent reliable sources use the name “Nina Nunes”. The appropriate policy is WP:NAMECHANGES because her name changed. If, for example, people like Bill Clinton started going by William, Joe Biden started going by Joseph, Donald Trump started going Don, or a topic specific person, Nate Diaz started going by Nathan, then COMMONNAME would be the appropriate policy.--Rockchalk717 18:36, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I’m also not sure what what relevance WP:NOTNEWS has here either. This isn’t “original reporting” as 11 different unique sources use her new name, it’s not written as a “news report”, she already meets notability requirements (“who’s who”), and it’s not “celebrity gossip”. This is a legal name change that is already being reflected quite literally everywhere. Again, per WP:NAMECHANGES, a policy SPECIFICALLY for name changes, CLEARLY states “If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match. If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well, as described above in "Use commonly recognizable names".--Rockchalk717 19:09, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Plessis, Paul J. du (2015). Borkowski's Textbook on Roman Law. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780198736226.
  2. ^ "Hannibal Barca – How One Black Man Brought Rome To Its Knees". The Pan-African Alliance. 2019-04-02. Retrieved 2019-10-25.
  3. ^ "Hannibal". Ancient History Encyclopedia. Retrieved 2019-10-25.
Cassiopeia already had previous issues with changes within Wikipedia and one-dimensional views of guidelines. This one is pretty clear here. The change should be made as everything points to Nina Nunes, except Cassiopeia's point of view ("wait a couple of years before changing something that should be changed today"). Gsfelipe94 (talk) 00:03, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: 11 sources versus sources of 10 years' and routinely does not mean only applied last two weeks. I am not against name change, but we need more sources to reelect that that is the reasons I propose to wait for some time. Again, since she started fighting she was commonly known as Ansaroff for the last 10 years - which most people would know her for and not Nina Nunes but it will be as time goes by - That is the whole point - just wait for a little while and why all the rush?. Cassiopeia(talk) 00:04, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Why did you remove my comment? Don't do that. Also, I'm once again writing about the non-sense your saying. The argument makes no sense whatsoever as there would be a redirect for people that searched Nina Ansaroff (just a reminder that newcomers would see Nina Nunes in all recent media) and the text within the article would mention her previous last name. That's pretty obvious. Gsfelipe94 (talk) 00:11, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gsfelipe94 Didnt mean to remove your comment. I just moved the "reflist-talk" up to where I edited and cited the sources on my previous edit and somehow your comment was removed as our comments were one minue apart from each other - maybe technical issues or my carelessness - I dont know). I would never remove other editors' comments intentionally, and I have never done for 170+K edits I have made and you are aware of that, unless the comments are as foul languages or derogatory terms languages for it is considered vandalism edits as part of my counter vandalism work in Wikipedia . Apologies for my accidentally removal of your comments for I truly didnt aware I have done so. My bad and my apologies. Back to the name change here - pls do not state I made no sense as I based my comments as per guidelines. There are some guidelines I do not share the same views of Wikipedia but they are guidelines. As you know, Wikipedia is not about what newcomers' guidelines but Wikipedia guidelines which is obvious to all of us and a redirect of Nina Nunes to Nina Ansaroff already created and newcomer can find this article easily. Lastly, pls comment on the issues and not attaking the editor which you have made. I have different views as I always based my comment as per guidelines which at times editors might not aware of the guidelines, or do not like the guidelines (the guidelines are not make by me) and you also aware I have support a good number of mma fighter names changed as they fitting the guidelines. All I am saying is do wait until more sources to make the subject "commonly known" name obvious. Cassiopeia(talk) 00:56, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 21 August 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved

This change was previously proposed on 9 April 2021 and closed with no consensus.

Three editors (including the proposer) support this move. One editor opposes this move. The same editor was one of two editors who opposed the move at the previous RM. Here and previously this editor argues that the move should not be made per WP:COMMONNAME on the basis that the subject's name has changed recently and the current name remains more common considered over the course of the subject's career. This is a misunderstanding of the policy, per WP:NAMECHANGES as has been discussed below (and above).

The same editor refers back to the previous RM. Since the previous RM closed with no consensus, there is strictly no need to consider it. Nevertheless, I have reviewed the previous RM. The closing editor has not left a comment. Assessing consensus is not a precise art and different editors may reasonably reach different conclusions. I would certainly have assessed the previous RM as showing a consensus to move.

As a note, it is unhelpful for editors to leave multiple comments reiterating the same point. (non-admin closure) Havelock Jones (talk) 23:50, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Nina Ansaroff → Nina Nunes – She's been known as Nina Nunes for months now. The UFC has billed her as such, and several sources including Sherdog and ESPN go by her new name. ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 01:48, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support per this and previous nomination, above. The databases listed under her entry's "External links" — Sherdog and UFC — both specify "Nina Nunes", with Sherdog indicating, "Formerly known as Nina Ansaroff". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:32, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - pls see previous discussion and understand Wikipedia is not news and COMMON guidelines - we are talking about pass 10 years sources versus this year sources - it is incomparable to make the change of name at this point. UFC is not an independent source. Pls wait until subject has booked for at least 3 fight under the new name prior change of name. Cassiopeia talk 03:11, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. It may be instructive to compare this nomination to Talk:Vasyl Ivanchuk#Requested move 18 April 2020 in which the convincing argument for the Chess Grandmaster's name change rested with his listing in the key database for FIDE, the International Chess Federation. In the same manner, Nina Nunes' listing in the key databases — Sherdog and UFC — should be considered as definitive. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:52, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this is mma and not chess as chess subject has so little independent, reliable source talk about them just like the academics for you will find cat stucks in the tree would be reported by Guardance newspaper but President of Penn State University would be almost always cant be found. Ansaroff has been a professional mma fighter since 2010 and sources of more than 10 years souces is a lot more than just last 4 months. Cassiopeia talk 04:13, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Vasyl Ivanchuk has been a Chess Grandmaster for 33 years. In 1988, when the Soviet Union was still extant and, for years thereafter, names of Ukrainians were transliterated in their Russian forms, thus all of his historical references are in the Russian form. However, as soon as he requested the use of the Ukrainian form, FIDE complied. His English Wikipedia entry has 31 inline cites, most of which are from the Russian name era, however all that history did not prevent the name move. Likewise, the Ansaroff name history should not block the use of subject's Nunes name, per her ESPN entry. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:41, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment good to know the chess master has 31 entries but Nunes would have hundred of hundred entries if not thousands for the last ten years. Wikipedia name change guidlines is NOT be ESPN entry but Wikipedia guidelines and Always remember Wikipedia is NOT a news site for we dont update the name changes for what it has just happened recently but per COMMON. Cassiopeia talk 05:17, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:40, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ortizesp Per what norm / guidelines are you referring to? Cassiopeia talk 06:01, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NAMECHANGES, most new sources seem to list her as Nina Nunes.--Ortizesp (talk) 06:06, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ortizesp ten years source vs the last 4 months? I dont think so. Pls read the previous name change discussion above so you may understand my point especially Wikipedia is not news site and COMMON. Cassiopeia talk 06:08, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As per WP:NAMECHANGES: "Sometimes the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match". I don't mind moving it to something like Nina Nunes Ansaroff, but she has certainly taken her wife's name.--Ortizesp (talk) 06:10, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ortizesp I doubt you read the previous discussion as it took you less than few minutes to reply this mesage. Dont mind is one thing. We all dont mind certain thing in Wikipedia but that is recent info, we dont change name just because it has just happened. I am not object to name change but not now, we wait for until she has booked 3 fights under the new name (She has been booked for 2 fights under new name as per to date), so it would have enough source for the name changed. Pls do considered Wikipedia is not news after all that is why we, the Wikipedians, are here for. Cassiopeia talk 06:15, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
At the very least there should be "also known as Nina Nunes" in the page ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 08:19, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
RafaelHP If you read the previous move discussion, you would have noticed that there already a "Nina Nunes" redirect to this page. In the "Personal life" section, it has already stated she married to Amanda Nunes and also indicated she used her new name on April on her fight. In addition, in the infobox, it has also stated her spouse is Amanda. The change of name will be in time but not now for we can just change a page name just because a person just got married and 10 years sources have been used her maiden name. Please be patient. Stay safe.09:31, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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