Talk:Pascalina Lehnert

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Additions and Deletions[edit]

A. I added some substance from her life based on the new biography and her own autobiography which was not used sofar.

B. I moved existing unsubstantiated material into the foodnotes and added poorly documented elements but interesting there as well.

C. I deleted the following texts because of several factual errors:

1. “Her intense dislike of him was credited by Roman Curia members with causing Pope Pius XII.to deny a cardinalate to Archbishop Giovanni Montini,.[citation needed] the future Pope Paul VI, Pius XII. did not deny the cardinalate but had offered it to Montini. He had two constitories during his pontificate, in 1946 and 1953. He offered the red hat to Montini and Tardini an 1953, but they turned it down. He himself noted that at the beginning of his speech to the new cardinals in 1953. Montini did not get the red hat after 1954, because the Pope did not have a third consistory before his death in 1958. This meant that all archbishops, appointed after 1953, who could expect the honor because of tradition and importance of their city, did not get the red hat (Montini Milan, O’Hara Philadelphia, Cushing Boston, König Vienna, Godfrey Westminster, Barbieri Montevideo, Castaldo Naples, Richaud Bordeaux, … and others: http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/event/cs1958.html)

Er, all of the above did get the red hat and were made cardinals in 1958. Quis separabit? 19:57, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

2. “so excluding him from the 1958 papal conclave, where it was suspected that he would have been a leading candidate to be elected pope”. Montini was a leading candidate in 1958. Even without being a cardinal, Montini as archbiship of Milan and long-time protogee, friend and pro-secretary of Pius XII. was among the leading papapile candidates in 1958, a unique situation which was not repeated since. Roncalli, 77, was seen as “a transitional pope” at the time and viewed himself as place keeper for Montini.

3. “This decision was overturned by the new pope” Any pope can appoint or not appoint a candidate to the College of Cardinals as he pleases. If the candidate is not appointed, he can be appointed by the same pope or another pope at a later time. There is simply no “decicion to be overturned”, unless, and nobody claims that, a Pope decrees that candidate X can never be appointed. In the case of Montini, the facts are clear: He was to be appointed in 1953, turned it down, and therefore had to wait to the next constitory, which took place after the death of Pope Pius XII.

Sorry, I hope this does not sound too arrogant or something like it. Looking forward to comments. --Ambrosius007 (talk) 23:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the beef?[edit]

This interesting material provides no citations.

I have in front of me the one book listed below the article: Murphy, Paul I. and Arlington, R. Rene. (1983) La Popessa. Maybe I am stupid but I cannot find any citations or support for most of the statements in the material. Can the author or somebody help me? Thanks. --Ambrosius007 (talk) 09:06, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

P.S: The alleged name of the Lady: "Pasqualina" is wrong, which may confuse future Wikipedia searches. In English, German and Italian her name is: Pascalina not Pasqualina. The book which is listed is also misquoted. It should read:

Murphy, Paul I. and Arlington, R. Rene Arlington (1983) La Popessa: The Controversial Biography of Sister Pascalina, the Most Powerful Woman in Vatican History. New York: Warner Books Inc. ISBN 0-446-51258-3.

I have done a google search, and I certainly found ample representation for the current name in English. Can you explain why the one is better than the other? I'm not sure it's not a tossup. The Evil Spartan (talk) 21:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The two spellings get very nearly the same number of hits at Google Books (a better guide to the appearance of the name in edited writing). Compare [1] and [2]. There are even a few references in Spanish calling her Pascualina Lehnert. I have no opinion, but I've made a redirect from Pascalina Lehnert here. —An gr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 10:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am puzzled that there is no mention of her involvement in the escape of Nazi war criminals, which is probably the only reason why anyone would be interested in her. See eg Gitta Sereny, "Into that Darkness". I hope that someone with better access to records can discuss this issue. Boltzy (talk) 06:29, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You should not be puzzled: there are a lot of apologists on Wikipedia. Quis separabit? 19:58, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]