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Talk:Sakura Miyawaki

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Stage units section

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I'm not sure, but does her stage units need to included on her article? I really don't see the need for it. If it stays, I think it could be better formatted. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 06:03, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Seems very fan-trivia focused. I don't really know AKB48 so I don't even know what this generally means. Out of context, it just feels like trivia. Evaders99 (talk) 21:39, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It reads that way to me as well. Your thoughts? @Lullabying Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 01:15, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Stage units are basically special units or sub-groups that are put together for live concerts. It's kind of like what Aa! became after releasing one single. I think they're fine to mention in the article if there is a 3rd party reliable sources for it, but it doesn't need its own section. lullabying (talk) 03:59, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be fine to just remove the entire section? It's all unsourced. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 04:14, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't oppose to removing the entire section if there are no sources for it right now. You may have to consider doing the same for all AKB48 member articles though. lullabying (talk) 06:32, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'll gladly remove them. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 06:56, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 8 October 2024

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Arnav Bhate (talk • contribs) 05:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sakura Miyawaki → Sakura (singer) – Was previously known by her full name in Iz*One and AKB48 but these days it seems pretty well established per English-language reliable sources that her WP:COMMONNAME is just mononymously "Sakura":

Korea JoongAng Daily, NME, Republic, The Korea Times, Wired, Dazed, Billboard, USA Today, The Chosun Ilbo, The Independent (Singapore), L'Officiel, Maeil Business Newspaper, The Korea Herald, Yonhap News Agency, The Hankook Ilbo RachelTensions (talk) 02:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. She has had a much longer career under her full name, including as a high-ranking member of AKB48 and as an actor in a significant number of television shows. "Sakura" is a very common name, and while she may be known by a mononym in South Korea, that is unlikely to hold up elsewhere. The cited sources are all about Le Sserafim; in that context she may be identified by her first name, but that doesn't indicate that she would be identifiable simply as "Sakura" without that context, just as we wouldn't move John Lennon to "John (singer)" based on articles calling him "John of the Beatles" or "The Beatles' John". Note as well that if this request succeeds, it might necessitate a move of Sakura (musician). Dekimasuよ! 03:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    She may have been commonly known under her full name in the past but the prevalence of English-language sources, especially ones from the last several years, widely just refer to her as mononymously as "Sakura" which is the criteria as listed per WP:COMMONNAME.
    Also, WP:NAMECHANGES makes this clear: "When a name change occurs, we give extra weight to independent, reliable, English-language sources ("reliable sources" for short) written after the name change. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match".
    If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name when discussing the article topic in the present day, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well - I'd find it hard to believe that the majority of English-language, reliable sources use "Sakura Miyawaki" when discussing the subject as she exists in the present day.
    Re: your second point about Sakura (musician); the two are not at all ambiguous. Sakura (musician)'s article makes no reference to him being a singer, and even if they were ambiguous, "singer" and "musician" represent acceptable disambiguation per WP:SINGERDAB RachelTensions (talk) 03:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand WP:NAMECHANGES, but no change has taken place here. Her name is still Sakura Miyawaki. She is still being credited that way whenever she does work in Japan (e.g. here) as well as on her official Instagram page. If you can find English sources that call her "Sakura" without needing to first point out that they mean "the particular Sakura who is in Le Sserafim", then I would take it as evidence she is being treated as a mononymmed singer in English sources, but I can't find any such evidence. When I search for "sakura"+"singer" on Google, I come up with this person first, this person second, this person third, in addition to hits for Sakura Oda and Sakura Fujiwara and an Instagram page for a singer/songwriter in New York City who is working as "Sakura". Then there is one 2024 Reddit post asking "whether Sakura Miyawaki is a good singer", which does not call this singer "Sakura". Dekimasuよ! 05:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The source you cited for work in Japan is a Japanese-language source, not English. WP:COMMONNAME specifically refers to English-language sources, and in English-language sources she's known as "Sakura".
    The fact that she's generally not been discussed in English-language reliable sources outside of her work with Le Sserafim for several years now doesn't negate all the coverage in English-language reliable sources that overwhelmingly refer to her as just "Sakura". We're looking for what an English-language reader would likely expect the article to be at, and to those people English-language reliable sources show that she's overwhelmingly known as "Sakura from Le Sserafim", not "Sakura Miyawaki from AKB48 and HKT48" or "Japanese domestic actress Sakura Miyawaki". I'm sure on Japanese Wikipedia she'd have no chance of moving to a mononym, but in the English-speaking world it's a different story.
    Regarding your example of a Google search, we must have different results. When I search for "Sakura singer" or "sakura"+"singer", Miyawaki's Wikipedia page is the first result, second result is her Instagram, third is Kpop Wiki. Confirmed via incognito mode to discount any Google foolishness to show pages I'm known to look at instead of what the actual results are.
    As for the assertion that no name change has taken place here, I'd argue the opposite - she's gone from commonly using her full name to using a mononym. RachelTensions (talk) 06:13, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Again, I am making two points. 1) Without "from Le Sserafim" it would be impossible for readers to know what "Sakura" is being referred to; 2) where she is still active outside the context of the band, she is still referred to as "Sakura Miyawaki", not as "Sakura". Ideally we would want to see coverage that is separate from the band, such that the subject of the article satisfies WP:BANDMEMBER. Here, that is satisfied specifically because of the other outside activities (acting, previous work in other groups) where she is identified by her full name. To show that this is not simply outdated, I noted the official and currently active Instagram account (which writes her full name in the Roman alphabet), the Japanese-language article from 2024, and the self-identifying note in Japanese below. Dekimasuよ! 06:39, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I see that you added additional Korean sources to the request after I had replied, but these have the same issues. Note as well that the Maeil article is explicitly labeled as machine translation from Korean, and the Hankook Ilbo article is about a post she made to Weverse, where she is identified as first "Miyawaki Sakura" and then "Sakura" in running text. In one of the Weverse interviews she writes「ステージの上での姿が変わっても、宮脇咲良という人間は結局同じです。」which translates to something along the lines of "Even if my appearance on the stage has changed, in the end I am still the same Miyawaki Sakura." Dekimasuよ! 06:03, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think I had ever heard of Sakura Miyawaki before today, so I'll let others look through the conversation and decide for themselves, but one last point: "Sakura" is also the working name of another singer with 3 top-20 albums in Japan. On the Japanese Wikipedia her article is at ja:SAKURA (歌手). No need for preemptive disambiguation, but we would eventually end up with Sakura (singer, born 1998) if Sakura Miyawaki were moved and the other singer's article were created here. Dekimasuよ! 06:50, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is all a bit of crystal-balling but even at Japanese Wikipedia, Miyawaki gets 5300% more views than the other person so I don't think a case for possible disambiguation necessity could be made there, let alone here where the spread would likely be even greater if they ever were to have an article. RachelTensions (talk) 07:03, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Dekimasu. She was known by her full name in AKB48, she was known by her full name for Produce 48 and Izone, it's more recent that she has gone mononymously for Le Sserafim. We don't know what marketing will be for her in the future, but she's been known by her full name longer than Source Music decided she'd go by her given name only. I'd say this is unnecessary at best. orangesclub 🍊 22:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    How long do we have to wait before a common name becomes a common name? She’s been mononymous in nearly every English-language reliable source, with few exceptions, for the last 2 and a half years.
    It would also be in line with article titles of fellow-ex Iz*One members Wonyoung and Chaeyeon who have similarly become widely known mononymously in their post-Iz*One activities and their titles reflect this. RachelTensions (talk) 22:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose; per Dekimasu and Orangesclub. It seems that Sakura Miyawaki is the most effective disambiguation. If someone said "Sakura Miyawaki" you'd know we're talking about the Le Sserafim member and a former HKT48 member, but if you said Sakura (singer) it'd get confusing with the Sakura (Cherry blossom). - Jjpachano (talk) 15:17, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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